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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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Amir0x

Banned
Jesus @ Representative Tim Huelskamp on Morning Joe.

That was the most infuriating 10 minutes of television ever, and is the most perfect illustration of why it is the Republicans destroying America piece by piece.

On the fiscal cliff, every single member of the panel including Joe slowly walks Huelskamp through the process - revenues vs. cuts, or what balance there should be in the order. Slowly but surely they walk him through hypothetical scenarios to try to see where the line is, what he could compromise on.

Until finally he admitted the answer is nothing. Absolutely nothing. He will never vote for anything that has any tax increases for even a single person. Ever. In fact, he will not compromise or any issue whatsoever the Democrats want in the bill, and if they get something he won't vote for it.

When prompted that it is impossible to govern in a country like ours when you're completely unwilling to compromise on any aspect of the debate, he entered into some circular void where he kept dodging questions.

"Well, how do you get anything done when one party won't compromise on a single point?"
"Well back in 2010, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts. So it's possible!"

The implication from then on being that as long as the Democrats surrender to whatever the Republicans want, the country will run just peachy!

God and it just got more infuriating from there. When they got to the gun debate, his argument was just misdirection after misdirection.

"Will you consider any changes to gun laws?"
"No, that's politicizing the issue. But violent videogames and mental health need to be looked into."
"Wait, you dare say I'm politicizing the issue if I talk about sensible changes in gun control laws but you're not politicizing anything when you talk about how we need to address violent videogames and mental health?"
"I have FOUR CHILDREN, I care about their safety more than anyone! And yet I do not think the laws need to be changed. The laws are not the problem!"
"In what way are they not the problem when these high capacity magazines allow people the ability to literally mow down dozens of people at a time? When do you need these weapons or abilities? To hunt or to protect yourself? Come on!"
"I have FOUR CHILDREN, and I know the laws are not the problem. Didn't Connecticut have laws against this stuff anyway? See, fail! DO you have any children Joe?"
"I have four children too."

Then he goes on, without any irony, to imply that Joe was like using his children as a shield in the debate, meanwhile up until that point Huelskamp was basically the only one mentioning their children.
 

lednerg

Member
Jesus @ Representative Tim Huelskamp on Morning Joe.
...

That was insane. It was as if Tim went on there specifically to gloat because his little group is holding their party hostage, thinking Joe would give him an 'atta-boy' or some shit. These people are demented and scary. I gotta wonder if they're just short-selling the market and trying to crash it themselves.

EDIT: Video Link

EDIT2: Joe just said: "I wonder if he's ever taken a civics class?"

EDIT3:
Here's the clip of the congressman on Morning Joe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K1205PjQeHA
...
 

thefro

Member
Scarborough basically agreed with him on principle on the taxes but was like "you aren't Hugo Chavez, this is America and we have a divided government and we have to make a deal at some point to get things done".

He pretty much completely went off on Huelskamp on the gun thing after a while though.
 
Jesus @ Representative Tim Huelskamp on Morning Joe.

That was the most infuriating 10 minutes of television ever, and is the most perfect illustration of why it is the Republicans destroying America piece by piece.

On the fiscal cliff, every single member of the panel including Joe slowly walks Huelskamp through the process - revenues vs. cuts, or what balance there should be in the order. Slowly but surely they walk him through hypothetical scenarios to try to see where the line is, what he could compromise on.

Until finally he admitted the answer is nothing. Absolutely nothing. He will never vote for anything that has any tax increases for even a single person. Ever. In fact, he will not compromise or any issue whatsoever the Democrats want in the bill, and if they get something he won't vote for it.

When prompted that it is impossible to govern in a country like ours when you're completely unwilling to compromise on any aspect of the debate, he entered into some circular void where he kept dodging questions.

"Well, how do you get anything done when one party won't compromise on a single point?"
"Well back in 2010, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts. So it's possible!"

The implication from then on being that as long as the Democrats surrender to whatever the Republicans want, the country will run just peachy!

God and it just got more infuriating from there. When they got to the gun debate, his argument was just misdirection after misdirection.

"Will you consider any changes to gun laws?"
"No, that's politicizing the issue. But violent videogames and mental health need to be looked into."
"Wait, you dare say I'm politicizing the issue if I talk about sensible changes in gun control laws but you're not politicizing anything when you talk about how we need to address violent videogames and mental health?"
"I have FOUR CHILDREN, I care about their safety more than anyone! And yet I do not think the laws need to be changed. The laws are not the problem!"
"In what way are they not the problem when these high capacity magazines allow people the ability to literally mow down dozens of people at a time? When do you need these weapons or abilities? To hunt or to protect yourself? Come on!"
"I have FOUR CHILDREN, and I know the laws are not the problem. Didn't Connecticut have laws against this stuff anyway? See, fail! DO you have any children Joe?"
"I have four children too."

Then he goes on, without any irony, to imply that Joe was like using his children as a shield in the debate, meanwhile up until that point Huelskamp was basically the only one mentioning their children.

I think the members of the House and Senate need a genuine honest to god, Psychiatric evaluation
 
Jesus @ Representative Tim Huelskamp on Morning Joe.

Just saw this on a 30 minute delay with my DVR... just wow...!

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. But then again it explains so much. Expected this maybe a year or two ago, but after recent events I expected the Tea Party Republicans to be somewhat neutered by now.

Yet this guy is still completely disconnected from reality. He's literally a man child and doesn't understand divided government or just our Democratic Republic in general.

Without exaggeration, I think it's safe to say the Tea Party has been a poison on our government the last 2.5 years. The irony is that they're going to take the GOP down in crashing flames.
 

watershed

Banned
Here's the clip of the congressman on Morning Joe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K1205PjQeHA#!

Guys like this live in their own world. He starts the clip by using his 4 children as a way to say he is of course concerned but then says that anyone who uses the fact that they have children to push "an agenda" are wrong. Then he says that the idea that one single law could have prevented this is wrong, implying that's what's happening, when the president explicitly said many times over that no single policy can prevent this type of violence. The logical breakdowns are too many to count but this is the quality of legislator we have, these people vote on bills.
 

nib95

Banned
That was insane. It was as if Tim went on there specifically to gloat because his little group is holding their party hostage, thinking Joe would give him an 'atta-boy' or some shit. These people are demented and scary. I gotta wonder if they're just short-selling the market and trying to crash it themselves.

EDIT: Video Link

EDIT2: Joe just said: "I wonder if he's ever taken a civics class?"

EDIT - Loaded desktop version on my mobile and it worked.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Jesus @ Representative Tim Huelskamp on Morning Joe.

That was the most infuriating 10 minutes of television ever, and is the most perfect illustration of why it is the Republicans destroying America piece by piece.

On the fiscal cliff, every single member of the panel including Joe slowly walks Huelskamp through the process - revenues vs. cuts, or what balance there should be in the order. Slowly but surely they walk him through hypothetical scenarios to try to see where the line is, what he could compromise on.

Until finally he admitted the answer is nothing. Absolutely nothing. He will never vote for anything that has any tax increases for even a single person. Ever. In fact, he will not compromise or any issue whatsoever the Democrats want in the bill, and if they get something he won't vote for it.

When prompted that it is impossible to govern in a country like ours when you're completely unwilling to compromise on any aspect of the debate, he entered into some circular void where he kept dodging questions.

"Well, how do you get anything done when one party won't compromise on a single point?"
"Well back in 2010, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts. So it's possible!"

The implication from then on being that as long as the Democrats surrender to whatever the Republicans want, the country will run just peachy!

God and it just got more infuriating from there. When they got to the gun debate, his argument was just misdirection after misdirection.

"Will you consider any changes to gun laws?"
"No, that's politicizing the issue. But violent videogames and mental health need to be looked into."
"Wait, you dare say I'm politicizing the issue if I talk about sensible changes in gun control laws but you're not politicizing anything when you talk about how we need to address violent videogames and mental health?"
"I have FOUR CHILDREN, I care about their safety more than anyone! And yet I do not think the laws need to be changed. The laws are not the problem!"
"In what way are they not the problem when these high capacity magazines allow people the ability to literally mow down dozens of people at a time? When do you need these weapons or abilities? To hunt or to protect yourself? Come on!"
"I have FOUR CHILDREN, and I know the laws are not the problem. Didn't Connecticut have laws against this stuff anyway? See, fail! DO you have any children Joe?"
"I have four children too."

Then he goes on, without any irony, to imply that Joe was like using his children as a shield in the debate, meanwhile up until that point Huelskamp was basically the only one mentioning their children.

Honestly when I saw this I thought it was some conedy bit. The fact that it is real is the most depressing thing I have ever seen (as far as politics go). It's things like this that make me so amazed that anything has gotten done, Obama may not be perfect but the man deserves a medal for working with people like this and still managing to do something.
 

slit

Member
That was insane. It was as if Tim went on there specifically to gloat because his little group is holding their party hostage, thinking Joe would give him an 'atta-boy' or some shit. These people are demented and scary. I gotta wonder if they're just short-selling the market and trying to crash it themselves.

EDIT: Video Link

EDIT2: Joe just said: "I wonder if he's ever taken a civics class?"

I can't wait to see the fallout. These nuts are going to force Boehner to work with the DEMs. The look of betryal on the face of these smug jerks is going to be priceless.
 

watershed

Banned
Hopefully nuts like that congressman will make the speaker realize that the only way to actually govern this country is to work with democrats.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Hopefully nuts like that congressman will make the speaker realize that the only way to actually govern this country is to work with democrats.

If Boehner didn't realize this last night then he's...well I can't say it without getting banned but you get the idea.
 
Political posturing by Boener aside - If I'm a GOP congressman, why would I ever vote for Plan B? Vote for a tax increase that has no chance of going anywhere when I can just let everything expire and vote for cuts to 98% of Americans in 2 weeks? All so I can be primaried in two years for "voting to raise taxes?"
 

nib95

Banned
Finished watching the video. My mind boggles. How is this guy in any position of power? I'd say referring to his behaviour as close minded and child like would be an understatement since even a child is better at understanding or compromising. You guys need to get these guys out and keep them out for good. They have no place in politics and are hugely detrimental to the country at large.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
Political posturing by Boener aside - If I'm a GOP congressman, why would I ever vote for Plan B? Vote for a tax increase that has no chance of going anywhere when I can just let everything expire and vote for cuts to 98% of Americans in 2 weeks? All so I can be primaried in two years for "voting to raise taxes?"

It was so they could pin the cliff specifically on Democrats. That's it.
 

nib95

Banned
It was so they could pin the cliff specifically on Democrats. That's it.

Exactly. It was a, see we are willing to raise taxes on the super wealthy elite so long as you let us pass the most conservative bill possible...

Only....even that wasn't enough for Conservatives since they're not willing to budge on the tax thing AT ALL. In other words, they really do put the well being of the entire country below the taxes of the super wealthy. There is no compromise with these people.
 

Gruco

Banned
edit: The best way for this end would be Boehner, in a fit of rage having been embarassed and losing his position decides in the next few days to pass Obama's bill by bringing it to the floor and aligning with Pelosi. Then announce your retirement from politics, drop the mic, go home. He would live in infamy rather than forgotten soon.
As wonderful as these fantasy scenarios are, I'm genuinely scared at this point about what the House is even capable of. Obviously the Democrats are going to support the president in negotiations. Obviously the right wing will be steadfast in opposition. Will the Normal-right be swung under newer, further right leadership? Are there enough people there who can even stomach breaking ranks to support a bill being substantively passed by Pelosi?

The majoritarian institution has no majority. What the hell is it supposed to be able to accomplish?
 

3rdman

Member
Just saw this on a 30 minute delay with my DVR... just wow...!

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. But then again it explains so much. Expected this maybe a year or two ago, but after recent events I expected the Tea Party Republicans to be somewhat neutered by now.

Yet this guy is still completely disconnected from reality. He's literally a man child and doesn't understand divided government or just our Democratic Republic in general.

Without exaggeration, I think it's safe to say the Tea Party has been a poison on our government the last 2.5 years. The irony is that they're going to take the GOP down in crashing flames.
Is it too late to change the OT title? Perhaps something that reflects the way the Reps are self-immolating....OT2: Electric Whig-aloo
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
As wonderful as these fantasy scenarios are, I'm genuinely scared at this point about what the House is even capable of. Obviously the Democrats are going to support the president in negotiations. Obviously the right wing will be steadfast in opposition. Will the Normal-right be swung under newer, further right leadership? Are there enough people there who can even stomach breaking ranks to support a bill being substantively passed by Pelosi?

The majoritarian institution has no majority. What the hell is it supposed to be able to accomplish?

Assuming there are any moderate Republicans left in the house (not to be snarky, I genuinely don't know) I can see this whole debacle pushing them more towards the Democrats- with the justification of "at least they're willing to do something". I don't think it'll be very many, at least not in the short term, but if Boener gets bumped from the Speakership by a Tea Party rep that would likely increase how many Republicans we can consider "moderate" in this model.

One or two bills miraculously passed without the Tea Party-driven Republican caucus might make some people change their tune, though. Who knows.
 

watershed

Banned
If anything is going to get done Boehner is going to have to accept passing compromise legislation with only a minority of the house republicans voting yes. But is he willing to do that? Potentially losing his speakership as a result? Are a minority of house republicans willing to vote yes and risk primary challengers from the extreme right?

It seems like government cannot function until the republican party fixes its own internal disfunction.
 
Thinking forward, this really strengthens Obama's hand in the Debt Ceiling Negotiations, with the caucus fractured, finding some republicans to cross the isle is totally plausible. We'll see, maybe the new leader Eric Cantor in 2012 can unite them, but it seems questionable.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
If anything is going to get done Boehner is going to have to accept passing compromise legislation with only a minority of the house republicans voting yes. But is he willing to do that? Potentially losing his speakership as a result? Are a minority of house republicans willing to vote yes and risk primary challengers from the extreme right?

It seems like government cannot function until the republican party fixes its own internal disfunction.

His speakership is gone already.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Thinking forward, this really strengthens Obama's hand in the Debt Ceiling Negotiations, with the caucus fractured, finding some republicans to cross the isle is totally plausible. We'll see, maybe the new leader Eric Cantor in 2012 can unite them, but it seems questionable.

If there are any who are "loyal" to Boehner I bet they're royally pissed at Cantor now, and they know anything they pass will get stricken down by the senate. I would not be surprised if we see some defections and the dems get something through.
 

lednerg

Member
If anything is going to get done Boehner is going to have to accept passing compromise legislation with only a minority of the house republicans voting yes. But is he willing to do that? Potentially losing his speakership as a result? Are a minority of house republicans willing to vote yes and risk primary challengers from the extreme right?

It seems like government cannot function until the republican party fixes its own internal disfunction.

Maybe the Wall St guys, who are flipping the fuck out right now, will get on their case. I dunno. Can't say I'm too optimistic about an actual compromise coming from Boehner; he's still in perpetual victim mode judging from today's presser.
 
If there are any who are "loyal" to Boehner I bet they're royally pissed at Cantor now, and they know anything they pass will get stricken down by the senate. I would not be surprised if we see some defections and the dems get something through.

Public opinion will be much stronger and more influential after the holidays, once we're actually over the cliff. At some point they need to look at which will impact them more, losing the votes of some diehard supporters or facing the opposition of a much more angry and vocal Democratic voting base?

While it would not shock me to see these assholes refuse to budge even after this happens, there has to be some point at which the pressure to actually do their job and govern gets to be too much. But these are Tea Party Republicans we're talking about...
 

pigeon

Banned
As wonderful as these fantasy scenarios are, I'm genuinely scared at this point about what the House is even capable of. Obviously the Democrats are going to support the president in negotiations. Obviously the right wing will be steadfast in opposition. Will the Normal-right be swung under newer, further right leadership? Are there enough people there who can even stomach breaking ranks to support a bill being substantively passed by Pelosi?

The majoritarian institution has no majority. What the hell is it supposed to be able to accomplish?

Boehners already passed compromise legislation without majority Republican support several times. In fact, he does it every time this situation comes up.
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
It's funny because up until 2010 I thought Boehner and Cantor were BFFs. Since then it seems like Cantor's been going out of his way to undercut Boehner's Speakership.

Which of course would be awesome is Cantor succeeded Boehner. Even though he tried to kiss the Tea Party's ass Boehner has always been an old-school establishment Republican, not easy to work with but at least willing to compromise (minimally) to save his own skin and further the interests of the party at large. Meanwhile Cantor's high on Tea Party life and one of the biggest AIPAC stooges in Washington to boot. The fucker doesn't even know how to spell compromise and has proven time and again that he'll happily cut his own nose off to spite his face.
 

Gruco

Banned
Boehners already passed compromise legislation without majority Republican support several times. In fact, he does it every time this situation comes up.

Can you point to a couple quick examples? The only things of substance I can think of off the top of my head his House has done is the sequester/debt ceiling deal and the payroll tax extension.

I'd be thrilled to be dead wrong and see the play move in Pelosi's direction, but have a hard time seeing it when the stakes/salience are as high as they are in this case. Maybe depends on whether Boehner decides he's done.
 

pigeon

Banned
Can you point to a couple quick examples? The only things of substance I can think of off the top of my head his House has done is the sequester/debt ceiling deal and the payroll tax extension.

I'd be thrilled to be dead wrong and see the play move in Pelosi's direction, but have a hard time seeing in when the stakes/salience are as high as they are in this case. Maybe depends on whether Boehner decides he's done.

Those are my quick examples! Both of the situations you're describing were very similar to this one -- Boehner breaking ranks to pass a law that is not only wildly popular but that will have devastating effects on the country if not passed. He always breaks specifically when the stakes are high -- in fact, that's precisely why. Boehner tried intransigence when they shut down the government in the 90s under Clinton. As a result he lost his role as chair of the House Republican Caucus when the party lost seats in 98. This isn't just not his first time at the rodeo, it's not his first time getting thrown, and he prefers to land running.
 

3rdman

Member
Public opinion will be much stronger and more influential after the holidays, once we're actually over the cliff. At some point they need to look at which will impact them more, losing the votes of some diehard supporters or facing the opposition of a much more angry and vocal Democratic voting base?

While it would not shock me to see these assholes refuse to budge even after this happens, there has to be some point at which the pressure to actually do their job and govern gets to be too much. But these are Tea Party Republicans we're talking about...

Those teabaggers are so delusional that they actual see obstruction and non-compromise as a job well done.
 
NRA presser on now.

"While other have exploited this tragedy for political gain, we have respectably remained silent."

Here we go.
 
holy shit someone held up a flag saying "NRA KILLING OUR KIDS"

"THE NRA IS KILLING OUR CHILDREN"

GV2pel.jpg
 

lednerg

Member
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

NRA press conf interrupted by protester - RIGHT IN FRONT of LaPierre as he was talking about the need for armed guards in schools. The timing couldn't have been better.

EDIT: beaten
 
lol "video games"

he's doing a demonstration of some flash game called "kindergarten killers"

"HOW DID WE FIND THIS AND YOU MEDIA ELITES DIDN'T FIND IT"

"mortal kombat"

fucking NRA
 

Angry Fork

Member
Getting so tired of hearing people say 'it's just a movie, not a documentary' in regards to zero dark thirty and therefore doesn't need to be factually accurate. It's obvious most average people seeing this movie will think that's how it happened and will think it's a documentary. They will walk away thinking torture is justified because it provided answers in the film but in real life it does not. Filmmakers have a responsibility to avoid this kind of thing imo when based on real events.
 
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