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[Dr_Cogent]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12916906&postcount=23643

And even 'some people use it as a form of birth control' would be misleading when the real number that actually intentionally do that has got to be very very small.



You do mean to be intentionally misleading when you take the common phrase 'birth control' and instead break up the phrase and interpret the two words literally.


Yes . . . I am sensitive about the subject. I don't like suffering children. Millions of children die of starvation and disease each year and that really really really bothers me. I don't want that to happen. So I think it is very good policy to prevent unwanted births. I don't understand why other people are not bothered by dying children.

:lol You manged to find the one spot I didn't say some. I tried to make a point to say some everytime. Intentionally misleading, my ass. I can't help you that you take it to an extreme in your mind. Like I said before, you are so blinded by your ideology that you can't see straight.

Wow, one thing we can agree on. We don't like suffering children. I still think people could give their unwanted children up for adoption. People are dying to adopt newborn babies all over the place. I'm for the babies both in and out of the womb. You simply only care about the ones that have been born.

Let me ask you this speculawyer, are you for partial birth abortion as well? Does that even bother you? Does late term abortion bother you, or is it - basically, if it's umbilical cord is attached - it's fair game?

Really? Well guess what . . . they are pretty stupid and could use some education. Someone just told me:


:lol

I like how you left out the statistic right after the two you listed.

47% have had at least one previous abortion

You conveniently left that one out.

 

[Tamanon]

Clinton is probably considered a hero now when considering the current current economic climate.

Shame he's still pushing the foreclosure moratorium.

 

[maximum360]

Tucker Bounds is a complete windbag. The McCain campaign doesn't have the smartest lot on his team.

Clinton with shaky hands on TDS. Probably due to age or maybe some chorea kicking in.

 

[Jak140]

Can they identify where their genitalia are? I bet they can identify that. I bet they can identify a contraceptive as well. I still am not buying the argument that kids in this day and age are that fucking stupid.

I bet at least most of them can read the directions on a condom wrapper. It's not fucking rocket science.

How many are afraid to buy condoms because sex is stigmatized? How many are afraid to get birth control and how many know about Plan B?

Do you honestly think that the number of unwanted pregnancies wouldn't decrease if comfort with sexuality and education on where to get contraception was increased?

 

[CharlieDigital]

DAMN YOU BILL CLINTON! WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE SO MUCH SENSE?!?!

 

[Tamanon]

Tucker Bounds is a complete windbag. The McCain campaign doesn't have the smartest lot on his team.

Clinton with shaky hands on TDS. Probably due to age or maybe some chorea kicking in.

Also probably a good amount of chunky girls there, gotta fight the urges!

 

[reilo]

What would be more frightening? Being treated by Dr Kevorkian or by Dr Congent?

 

[platypotamus]

Seriously. Get this abortion crap outta her. No one will win the debate.

That's what she's trying to do, but some people want to make it illegal.

HEY-OH!!!!

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Just think how much more money we would save and make if we educated people rather than perpetuate their ignorance!

 

[capslock]

Can we ban all the people involved in the abortion debate in this thread?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Not really. Point in fact, I'd bet that most people that commit wrongdoing / do "evil" don't think that what they're doing is wrong / "evil." Or they're more than willing to lie to themselves to justify their actions if they feel it's in their best interests to do so.

What I intended to argue was that the mentality required to outright kill someone (not in self defense) is quite a bit different than that of which when a woman decides on getting an abortion. I know that you perceive abortion to be the same as the murder of a full grown human being, but I do not believe that the person getting the abortion thinks that way.

If you kill someone, you're violating their right to life. If you tax someone to pay for goods and services for someone else, you're violating their right to their property. Both are injustice. One is usually made illegal by government, the other is usually performed by government. Neither is appropriate.

I agree that killing someone is violating their rights. Where we disagree is that ending the existence of a fetus, that still is not a sentient being, is the same as murdering a full grown human being. Regarding your second point, how do you propose the government pay for anything if not to tax people?

You also avoided answering when exactly you think the government should stop ensuring the life and well being of its citizens. You think that the government should be obliged to ensure an unborn's baby right to life and its right to being birthed, but after it is born its well being should be left up to the whims of the free market?

I just want to be clear, but do you think that humans have no moral obligation to aid their fellow humans? For example, as long as you do not go out of your way and kill someone you should not be held at fault for watching them die and doing nothing to aid them?

That would be folly; millions of people drink responsibly, punishing all for the stupid abuses of the few is injustice in the extreme.

Indeed, but we still can't ignore that alcohol and guns and many other things play a large role in many crimes.

Yay, War on Drugs! Oh wait, I think I have a comment for that, too.

I would be interested to hear your comment!

 

[HylianTom]

What would be more frightening? Being treated by Dr Kevorkian or by Dr Congent?

Would I be allowed to wear a fetus costume to the doctor's office? It'd help with my decision.

edit: I'm loving the new map on 538. Lots of breathing room for Obama there.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

How many are afraid to buy condoms because sex is stigmatized? How many are afraid to get birth control and how many know about Plan B?

Do you honestly think that the number of unwanted pregnancies wouldn't decrease if comfort with sexuality and education on where to get contraception was increased?

I'm not against them being educated. Blaming Republicans directly for a high abortion rate is a fragile argument. If plenty of education was provided, and nothing changed - what would be the excuse then?

Can we ban all the people involved in the abortion debate in this thread?

Mods don't like it when you tell them who they should and should not ban. Keep it up.

What would be more frightening? Being treated by Dr Kevorkian or by Dr Congent?

Dr. Kevorkian treated the willing. You would be in better hands with Kevorkian.

 

[speculawyer]

:lol You manged to find the one spot I didn't say some. I tried to make a point to say some everytime. Intentionally misleading, my ass. I can't help you that you take it to an extreme in your mind. Like I said before, you are so blinded by your ideology that you can't see straight.

I read your sentence properly and that means I can't see straight?

BTW, it is not ideology, it is a policy.

Wow, one thing we can agree on. We don't like suffering children. I still think people could give their unwanted children up for adoption. People are dying to adopt newborn babies all over the place. I'm for the babies both in and out of the womb. You simply only care about the ones that have been born.

Well if there are so many children starving and dying and all these people that want to adopt them . . . then why isn't the problem solved?

Hint: Because there really isn't this huge army of people looking to adopt all these kids.

Let me ask you this speculawyer, are you for partial birth abortion as well? Does that even bother you? Does late term abortion bother you, or is it - basically, if it's umbilical cord is attached - it's fair game?

Am I for it? I'm not even "for" abortion. I just don't think it should be illegal. D&E is pretty much a side-show . . . it is a procedure that is very rare. I agree with Bill Clinton, any ban should allow an exception for the if the life of the mother is in danger.

 

[Zeliard]

I love self-effacing Bill Clinton.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Clinton is probably considered a hero now when considering the current current economic climate.

Seriously. People will want to remember the good times of the 90s for a while.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Can we ban all the people involved in the abortion debate in this thread?

Amazing we went from one of the better presidents to one of the worst.

 

[Mandark]

Regarding your second point, how do you propose the government pay for anything if not to tax people?

This has been episode number 235,914 of Gaffers Who Have Never Heard of Libertarianism Talking To JayDubya, part of an ongoing series.

 

[Keylime]

:lol TDS

"JERK!"

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I read your sentence properly and that means I can't see straight?

And you deliberately ignored all the other times I said it. Yes, you can't see straight because you only address what suits you while ignoring everything else.

BTW, it is not ideology, it is a policy.

No, clearly you have an ideology that blinds you. You don't think some things through. The stupid ass F-16 thread proves that. You weren't to be found after everyone mocked you and pointed and laughed at just how stupid your argument really was. You aren't willing to admit when you are wrong either. Again, I will reference the F-16 thread as evidence.

Am I for it? I'm not even "for" abortion. I just don't think it should be illegal. D&E is pretty much a side-show . . . it is a procedure that is very rare. I agree with Bill Clinton, any ban should allow an exception for the if the life of the mother is in danger.

I defy you to come up with a legit reason to abort a baby who is partially birthed that saves the mothers life. It simply makes absolutely no sense. Time to go watch The Shield now on my DVR.

 

[Tamanon]

It's a shame how deep this whole Clinton/Obama hatred narrative has penetrated. Good to know after his initiative that Bill is going to be hitting the trail. He seems to be one you want to deploy later on in the race anyways.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm not even going to comment on whether it should be taught or not. I don't really care. That, to me, is the parents job - not the schools.

I will say condoms are not a 100% way of preventing sexually transmitted diseases. Abstinence is. If you really want a 100% sure way to keep from getting it, you shouldn't have sex. Not the fun option, but it's the safest.

No where can you point to me that it's the Republicans fault that there are high rates of abortions. You are only speculating and cannot prove it with any real scientific evidence.



Kids need schools to learn how sex works? I didn't. Kids are that stupid these days?

No matter how the Republicans try, I don't see how they will not learn about it regardless. Those damn Republicans.

Teacher? How does sex work? :lol

You think kids are really that ignorant in this day and age of the internet?

Lots of parents don't teach their kids about sex and the dangers of it. It is great to think they should (I personally think parents should be responsible for teaching such things too), but we have to deal with reality, not just some ideals we might have. Condoms aren't 100% and abstenence may be, but does that mean we should take away condoms and only push abstinence? You perform abstinence requires a lot of will power and the ability to act against a very strong human instinct. Some teenagers may be able to do this, but the majority, given the opportunity will not be able to. People are going to have sex and that is just how it is. Abstinence is another one of those ideals that is not grounded in reality. Why not push abstinence, but also teach people about safe sex and contraceptives? Sure choosing the 100% safe method is great, but when the majority of people will not choose that, you may as well equip them with the alternative method that provides 90% + safety.

It is great that you belittle anyone who doesn't know much about safe sex or condoms, but that just isn't productive. There are plenty of kids out there who may know of condoms, but do not know how to use them or how to obtain them. In many areas of the country, especially small towns, I imagine it would be hard for a minor to obtain condoms anonymously. I don't see how insulting people who haven't received proper sexual education for poor sexual practices is productive at all. It would benefit society as a whole if everyone was educated on the matter and contraceptives were readily available. I don't see how you can argue against it, but my ears are open.

 

[Keylime]

Holy shit guys! Did you know the entire Abortion Debate can be summed up in one Wikipedia article?!

It's true!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate

Stop arguing about it now, cause it's all in there, both sides! AMAZING!

 

[heliosRAzi]

It pisses me off that Paulson wants that bailout plan to go through quickly and cleanly as it is. Fuck you fuckbag.

 

[so_awes]

Holy shit guys! Did you know the entire Abortion Debate can be summed up in one Wikipedia article?!

It's true!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate

Stop arguing about it now, cause it's all in there, both sides! AMAZING!

watch them keep going at it still.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Lots of parents don't teach their kids about sex and the dangers of it. It is great to think they should (I personally think parents should be responsible for teaching such things too), but we have to deal with reality, not just some ideals we might have. Condoms aren't 100% and abstenence may be, but does that mean we should take away condoms and only push abstinence? You perform abstinence requires a lot of will power and the ability to act against a very strong human instinct. Some teenagers may be able to do this, but the majority, given the opportunity will not be able to. People are going to have sex and that is just how it is. Abstinence is another one of those ideals that is not grounded in reality. Why not push abstinence, but also teach people about safe sex and contraceptives? Sure choosing the 100% safe method is great, but when the majority of people will not choose that, you may as well equip them with the alternative method that provides 90% + safety.

It is great that you belittle anyone who doesn't know much about safe sex or condoms, but that just isn't productive. There are plenty of kids out there who may know of condoms, but do not know how to use them or how to obtain them. In many areas of the country, especially small towns, I imagine it would be hard for a minor to obtain condoms anonymously. I don't see how insulting people who haven't received proper sexual education for poor sexual practices is productive at all. It would benefit society as a whole if everyone was educated on the matter and contraceptives were readily available. I don't see how you can argue against it, but my ears are open.

I won't argue against it. I don't think there is anything wrong with educating the kids about it. My argument was about blaming Republicans directly for higher abortion rates in general. I think they should teach both. Abstinence is 100% and use condoms if you aren't going to do that.

I don't, however, support unfettered abortion.

OK, Shield for real now. speculawyer, you will be wasting your time after this.

 

[capslock]

Mods don't like it when you tell them who they should and should not ban. Keep it up.

ONOZ!

 

[artredis1980]

politico says McCain won today but fails to mention the press turning on McCain for hiding Palin anywhere in his summary of why he won

http://www.politico.com/gameday/


please contact Alexander Burns here : http://www.politico.com/reporters/AlexanderBurns.html


and tell him about it

 

[Trakdown]

Clinton with shaky hands on TDS. Probably due to age or maybe some chorea kicking in.

He wasn't looking all that great last night on Letterman, either- huge bags below his eyes.

 

[reilo]

I won't argue against it. I don't think there is anything wrong with educating the kids about it. My argument was about blaming Republicans directly for higher abortion rates in general. I think they should teach both. Abstinence is 100% and use condoms if you aren't going to do that.

I don't, however, support unfettered abortion.

OK, Shield for real now. speculawyer, you will be wasting your time after this.

Here is the problem you fail to grasp: When school's teach about sex, they always mention that abstinence is 100%, and that if you do decide to have sex, be safe, thus use contraceptives and here is how. Republicans have been actively pushing to abolish the latter all together, and teach nothing BUT abstinence.

So, why the fuck are you protecting republicans so much, when it is quite clear their entire agenda goes against your own ideology?

 

[SouthernDragon]

Some kids don't know that sex can transmit STDs or cause pregnancy.

Some believe that drinking a cap of bleach or a can of Mountain Dew prevents pregnancy.

Just saying.

 

[Cloudy]

It's a shame how deep this whole Clinton/Obama hatred narrative has penetrated. Good to know after his initiative that Bill is going to be hitting the trail. He seems to be one you want to deploy later on in the race anyways.

Hilary stayed in way too long giving her supporters hope and building resentment with Obama backers. This is probably the first election closely followed by both "fan-bases" (generally disinterested women/blacks/youths) and they didn't get the memo about coming together afterwards

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I won't argue against it. I don't think there is anything wrong with educating the kids about it. My argument was about blaming Republicans directly for higher abortion rates in general. I think they should teach both. Abstinence is 100% and use condoms if you aren't going to do that.

I don't, however, support unfettered abortion.

OK, Shield for real now. speculawyer, you will be wasting your time after this.

You did say that it should be the parents' responsiblity -- not schools. Should I not be taking what you say literally... mr. literal? Did you not imply that schools should not be teaching sexual education? If I misunderstood then I apologize.

Of course Republicans should not suffer all of the blame for higher abortion rates. There are way too many factors to place the blame of the situation on one person or party. However, you must agree that the promotion of conservative Christian values and a constant effort to deny any sort of sexual education other than abstinence education, as well as an effort to keep knowledge of and access to contraceptives away from minors, are all counterproductive to improving the situation.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Colbert is on point, too :lol

"The point is, this is one of the most irrevocable economic decisions we will ever make. Let's make it in a state of panic."

Paulson's behavior seriously starting to scare me now.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

It's a shame how deep this whole Clinton/Obama hatred narrative has penetrated. Good to know after his initiative that Bill is going to be hitting the trail. He seems to be one you want to deploy later on in the race anyways.

i think that's the plan. in that private meeting bill and barack had some weeks ago i'm sure the subject was more or less about how to counter the palin-mania (which seems sort of dead already, but anyways). around mid-late oct. i expect bill, hillary to hit the battleground states hard, at times with biden or obama. but i think before palin that wasn't part of the strategy.

 

[Tamanon]

Colbert is on point, too :lol

"The point is, this is one of the most irrevocable economic decisions we will ever make. Let's make it in a state of panic."

Paulson's behavior seriously starting to scare me now.

The whole hearing was even worse, it was basically every senator taking turns saying "WTF are you thinking?":lol

 

[Jak140]

I'm not against them being educated. Blaming Republicans directly for a high abortion rate is a fragile argument. If plenty of education was provided, and nothing changed - what would be the excuse then?

Increasing sex education would not eliminate the need for abortion, but it would and does help decrease the number.

Consider this:

• Eight percent of women who have abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.[9]

• Family planning clinics funded under Title X of the federal Public Health Service Act have helped women prevent 20 million unintended pregnancies during the last 20 years. An estimated nine million of these pregnancies would have ended in abortion.[23]

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#23ref

 

[CharlieDigital]

"You know who else denied him their song rights? The Vietcong!" :lol

 

[heliosRAzi]

"You know who else denied him their song rights? The Vietcong!" :lol

POW

 

[Frank the Great]

I've been gone all day. Could someone fill me in on the happenings of the day? Any important polls?

 

[Door2Dawn]

I've been gone all day. Could someone fill me in on the happenings of the day? Any important polls?

McCain droped out of the race

 

[Ether_Snake]

Colbert is on point, too :lol

"The point is, this is one of the most irrevocable economic decisions we will ever make. Let's make it in a state of panic."

Paulson's behavior seriously starting to scare me now.

Paulson has very close ties to the Chinese elite, established while he was working at Goldman Sachs, does that comfort you?

 

[grandjedi6]

Abortion Debate

 

[CharlieDigital]

Paulson has very close ties to the Chinese elite, established while he was working at Goldman Sachs, does that comfort you?

I'm Chinese and a liberal elitist, so I'm a bit conflicted :lol

But seriously, the longer this goes on, the more it seems like he's trying to pull a fast one on the American people.

 

[Zeliard]

http://i35.tinypic.com/x4oklf.gif

:lol

Perfect.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I'm Chinese and a liberal elitist, so I'm a bit conflicted :lol

But seriously, the longer this goes on, the more it seems like he's trying to pull a fast one on the American people.

But you're not in charge of creating and sustaining at $700B deficit in China's number 1 enemy

 

[Tamanon]

I'm Chinese and a liberal elitist, so I'm a bit conflicted :lol

But seriously, the longer this goes on, the more it seems like he's trying to pull a fast one on the American people.

"Hey gang, complete and total collapse of the economy. Need $700 billion dollars to give to the big investment banks"
"Wait....why does this say 'no oversight'?"
"Oh, I just put it there because I didn't want to seem presumptuous!"
"What?"
"You know, like I was doing stuff without your knowledge, like nationalizing FNMA or FRMC, or tossing tons of money at AIG"
"Fuck you Paulson, it's vacation time!"

 

[capslock]

McCain droped out of the race

His campaign is proceeding however.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Can they identify where their genitalia are? I bet they can identify that. I bet they can identify a contraceptive as well. I still am not buying the argument that kids in this day and age are that fucking stupid.

I bet at least most of them can read the directions on a condom wrapper. It's not fucking rocket science.

Unfortunately, the quality of education and what people get out of it varies immensely.

Fortunately, in your case, you've seemed to have figured on how to use a condom wrapper. Unfortunately, the quality of your education or your ability to learn from it, has failed you when it comes to empathy. The ability to understand the plight of others, without having to be in their shoes.

I mean... you even say it yourself; most can read the directions. But some... i.e. A LOT cannot.

Besides. What's there to object to in regards to sex education? Why object to it, if the facts, the numbers, and the figures, show it works?

 

[CharlieDigital]

:lol

Perfect.

By contrast, Branduil and Jay:

Except, you know, less Chinesy