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[DenchDeckard]

The hilarious part is this idea that AMD and Sony had a secret sauce for some type of image reconstruction far better than the industry-leading one (Nvidia), but they chose to kept it a secret so far, only to use it for the PS5 Pro rather than making it available on the same hardware on the PC side.

Maybe it's coming to pc in q4?

 

[DenchDeckard]

The experts are going to cherry pick everything they can to prove PS5 Pro is weaker than the 4070. Like using CPU bound games with a high end CPU, which they already do with PS5.

I know I'll go to places like NXGamer to have honest comparisons.

NXGamer!!

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Wait when you see rtx 5090

I am but it offers a double whammy of fear.

1. Availability
2. Price

 

[Physiognomonics]

The Pro is absolutely weaker compared to the 4070 going off Sonys own performance estimates and the specifications of the GPU. The difference isn’t exactly massive and would probably not really matter to the average person so saying the 4070 best matches the Pro makes sense.

And NXGamer? Honest? The same guy that kept comparing the PS5 vs his 2070? A card that going by the raw specs alone is something like 20% worse then the PS5?

In multiplatform games using UE5, yes. But in exclusive games you think PS5 performs like a 6700XT? It can perform like a 3060-3070 in some cases.

There will be exclusives games where PS5 Pro outperform 4070, maybe performing on par with a 4080. You just watch.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

NXGamer!!

Is better than DF.

And it's just you laughing at him while we laugh at you.

 

[ap_puff]

So the cpu bandwidth runnin for free in the ps5 pro now huh.

how much bandwidth do you think the cpu takes?

 

[TheRedRiders]

That's a pretty good breakdown, but some factors he didn't analyze: the 4070 has 10% less memory bandwidth and a smaller bus, so at higher resolutions the console GPU may pull close to even. We also don't know how the PS5 Pro cache is laid out, the 40 series cards have a lot of L2 cache which helps quite a bit. It all depends on what is meant by "2-3x the raytracing performance". If it's talking about reduction in frametimes spent calculating RT, then 2x would be better than the 3070 but nowhere near 4070 (if we take pathtracing benchmarks as indicative of raw RT horsepower). At 3x it'll get somewhat close to the 4070 but still be slightly worse.

We know the cache layout for the PS5 Pro GPU as per Digital Foundry’s leak.

The 4MB of L2 cache per WGP remains the same, while L1 doubles from 128KB to 256KB to accommodate the larger numbers of compute units per shader engine. L0 cache also improves from 16KB to 32KB, which Sony says is to accommodate higher ray tracing performance.

 

[Zathalus]

In multiplatform games using UE5, yes. But in exclusive games you think PS5 performs like a 6700XT? It can perform like a 3060-3070 in some cases.

There will be exclusives games where PS5 Pro outperform 4070, maybe performing on par with a 4080. You just watch.

There are only two games that perform way better on the PS5 vs 6700XT, namely The Last of Us Part 1 and Ratchet and Clank. The former being an absolutely terrible port and the latter probably being the only game I can think of that does better. Returnal, Forbidden West, and Ghost of Tsushima all perform quite similar on the PS5 vs equivalent PC hardware. The only major issue is VRAM on 8GB cards but that is not really an issue for the 4070.

But the 4070 is the only good comparison we have now, the 8700 XT will probably be the better GPU to use once it eventually launches.

 

[ap_puff]

We know the cache layout for the PS5 Pro GPU as per Digital Foundry’s leak.

The 4MB of L2 cache per WGP remains the same, while L1 doubles from 128KB to 256KB to accommodate the larger numbers of compute units per shader engine. L0 cache also improves from 16KB to 32KB, which Sony says is to accommodate higher ray tracing performance.

thanks, didn't see that part

 

[winjer]

how much bandwidth do you think the cpu takes?

It's about 50Gbps.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Unfortunately, we will have to wait for proper results. It is too soon to say anything definitive. We can speculate in the meantime, which is all fine and good.

Personally, I'm not expecting PSSR to match DLSS v3, let alone beat it. But if PSSR can somewhat match DLSS v3, then that's super impressive, considering this is PlayStation's first attempt at AI-upscaling.

The best test would be, after PS5 Pro launches, to play the a PS game that is available on both PS5 Pro (with patch) and PC (DLSS) and see how the image compares.

 

[hinch7]

For all the experts here:

I like his videos but a Zen 2 and a 3600, in 2024 would be really rough. A lot of games needs to run shader compilation before you can play them, and you'd preferably want something more performant to reduce those downtimes.

 

[Physiognomonics]

There are only two games that perform way better on the PS5 vs 6700XT, namely The Last of Us Part 1 and Ratchet and Clank. The former being an absolutely terrible port and the latter probably being the only game I can think of that does better. Returnal, Forbidden West, and Ghost of Tsushima all perform quite similar on the PS5 vs equivalent PC hardware. The only major issue is VRAM on 8GB cards but that is not really an issue for the 4070.

But the 4070 is the only good comparison we have now, the 8700 XT will probably be the better GPU to use once it eventually launches.

There is also Death Stranding and likely others games. Oh, yes, the "terrible port" narrative. Got it.

I agree about 8700 XT though.

 

[mgcemir85]

Whats OP taking and where do I get it?

 

[Filben]

Really not that difficult to fathom considering results of base PS5 fidelity mode vs high end PC with DLSS/DLAA on some existing games.

Second comparison is very noticeable even on my phone, looking at the small pictures and the sun shining on my display in this very moment. Right screenshot looks like there's little to no AF activated (which in some games need to be forced through the driver because of bugged texture filtering). Also the fence lacks details on the right. Clearly sharper on the right .

All the other images in OP, no visible differences on the phone without zooming.

 

[Gaiff]

I know I'll go to places like NXGamer to have honest comparisons.

Come on man.

There will be exclusives games where PS5 Pro outperform 4070, maybe performing on par with a 4080. You just watch.

4070S maybe. 4080 is out of reach. Y’know, it’s 60% faster than the 4070. Even exclusive games where the PC performs badly don’t see the PS5 claw back a 60% lead. 25-30%.

 

[CJ_75]

you are comparing a games that haven't been ported to pc not at the best they can be. it does look really good ps5 pro though

What do you mean? Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart and Horizon Forbidden West are ported by Nixxes, widely considered as the best PC port house at the moment. Ratchet had some issues with texture loading at launch (as reported by DF) but it's all patched up now. HFW has been a great port from day one.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Come on man.


4070S maybe. 4080 is out of reach. Y’know, it’s 60% faster than the 4070. Even exclusive games where the PC performs badly don’t see the PS5 claw back a 60% lead. 25-30%.

OK 4070s then.

 

[Zathalus]

There is also Death Stranding and likely others games. Oh, yes, the "terrible port" narrative. Got it.

I agree about 8700 XT though.

Death Stranding on PS5 runs slightly faster than a 2080 vs PC. 5% is not exactly a large difference. The gap in performance between a 2080 and the PS5 GPU (in rasterization) is smaller vs the gap between the Pro and a 4070. Also, The Last of Us Part 1 is a terrible port, I’m not sure how anyone can even pretend otherwise.

 

[farmerboy]

Personally, I'm not expecting PSSR to match DLSS v3, let alone beat it. But if PSSR can somewhat match DLSS v3, then that's super impressive, considering this is PlayStation's first attempt at AI-upscaling.

This may be strictly true, but their XR tv processors have been utilising cognitive ai to enhance picture quality for a few years now. They know a lot about picture quality, upscaling, motion tech, etc. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they matched DLSS.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

DLSS on 4090 is the same as DLSS on 2050. Why mention 4090?

 

[Senua]

DLSS on 4090 is the same as DLSS on 2050. Why mention 4090?

You know why bro

 

[Codeblew]

What's even more funnier. Is how you Xbox warriors now try and compare ps5s to high powered pcs now Xbox is dead.

Yeah, we all know XBOX is dead. No need to beat a dead horse.

 

[PianistaMacabro]

It's funny because the ps5 of Ratchet e Clank looks better than PS5 Pro.

 

[metareferential]

Sony using shitty compressed video to show marginal improvements > Neogaf using shitty compressed video to show delusional improvements.

 

[Mohonky]

Yes, if you pause it and Zoom 10x, definitely how people play games.

I don’t know about you but when I see that wall in Spiderman on my peasant PS5 - totally immersion breaking, makes me want to quit gaming right there and then.

I'm kind of at this point. When DF and co are blowing images up just to see a difference smaller than a bees dick I don't care.

Noticing it a lot to find differences between console versions etc lately.

Actually fired up Alan Wake 2 last night and some of the settings were so fps costly for what amounted to next to nothing in difference I didn't bother.

 

[mdkirby]

How much of any of this is really that noticeable 10+ feet from your tv?

 

[the_master]

Diminishing returns. Both on pc and consoles.
I’d rather they invested in figuring out the next gen of processors that can offer 100x more performance. And I can wait 10 years if needed. All this small improvements are a waste

 

[Cyberpunkd]

How much of any of this is really that noticeable 10+ feet from your tv?

Not much.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

How much of any of this is really that noticeable 10+ feet from your tv?

Depends on your tv size on my 77" oled it's a tangible difference I hated looking at the fidelity mode on forbidden west because it reminded me of what I was missing out on but 30 fps just makes me nauseous so being able to play Sony first party at fidelity quality plus 60 is exactly what I want hopefully 3rd party can surprise me as well

 

[Senua]

Depends on your tv size on my 77" oled it's a tangible difference I hated looking at the fidelity mode on forbidden west because it reminded me of what I was missing out on but 30 fps just makes me nauseous so being able to play Sony first party at fidelity quality plus 60 is exactly what I want hopefully 3rd party can surprise me as well

Third party is the true test tbh. Sony has yet to release a current gen game really pushing fidelity like the latest UE5 titles. Their cross gen obsession fucked em over

 

[twilo99]

I like this videos but a Zen 2 and a 3600, in 2024 would be really rough. A lot of games run needs to run shader compilation before you can play them, and you'd preferably want something more performant to reduce those downtimes.

Zen2 in 2024/25 is unacceptable for what is perceived as a cutting edge gaming machine..

 

[twilo99]

 

[mdkirby]

Depends on your tv size on my 77" oled it's a tangible difference I hated looking at the fidelity mode on forbidden west because it reminded me of what I was missing out on but 30 fps just makes me nauseous so being able to play Sony first party at fidelity quality plus 60 is exactly what I want hopefully 3rd party can surprise me as well

I mean sure, for enthusiasts, and I’ll be getting the new model regardless, but for the majority, despite all the effort and marketing focus placed on this stuff, the end result for most has to be pretty negligible.

 

[midnightAI]

Third party is the true test tbh. Sony has yet to release a current gen game really pushing fidelity like the latest UE5 titles. Their cross gen obsession fucked em over

Just curious, but what UE5 titles for the PS5 do you think look better (have better fidelity as you put it) than Sony's first party for PS5? (including cross gen)

 

[twilo99]

Takes

 

[OverHeat]

This thread is still alive ???

 

[cormack12]

Should be, but I'd rather they add ray tracing effects instead of shooting for super high resolution. The GI, reflections, shadows, and caustics in Wukong are glorious.

These images are also smaller, negating the differences in volumetric, AF, draw distances, roughness cutoff, particle resolution, and much much more. Also better to watch them from a monitor or large screen.

TBH even if the only improvement is the difference in lighting in that first shot, that's enough for me.

It was jarring walking round NC and everyone looking like an NPC from Unity on base PS4.

It's like low bitrate or banding on streaming videos. It don't bother some people and I wish I was one of them. But I want that delicious fidelity and lighting

 

[Caio]

This thread is still alive ???

Please, don’t even think about stopping people from posting! I’ve already gone through five buckets of popcorn just watching the epic battles between hardcore PC gamers and the ever-enthusiastic PS5 fans. Keep the show going!
Go PS5 PRO Go !!! I love PSSR with passion

 

[OverHeat]

Please, don’t even think about stopping people from posting! I’ve already gone through five buckets of popcorn just watching the epic battles between hardcore PC gamers and the ever-enthusiastic PS5 fans. Keep the show going!
Go PS5 PRO Go !!! I love PSSR with passion

 

[SKYF@ll]

This may be strictly true, but their XR tv processors have been utilising cognitive ai to enhance picture quality for a few years now. They know a lot about picture quality, upscaling, motion tech, etc. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they matched DLSS.

The picture quality is amazing when playing YouTube, DVDs, BDs, UHD-BDs, etc. on a PS5 or Bravia high-end TV.
SONY has a wealth of imaging know-how for TVs, cameras, and professional equipment for filming movies.
https://www.sony.com/en-sa/electronics/4k-resolution-4k-upscaling-tvs

 

[NEbeast]

You Sony guys just need to accept this L from Sony.

There is no way that PSSR will beat DLSS.

THe hardest Copium I've ever seen going on from hardcore sony guys about this absolute mess of a product.

Oh, shut up. If this was an xbox you would be praising it non stop.

 

[Senua]

Just curious, but what UE5 titles for the PS5 do you think look better (have better fidelity as you put it) than Sony's first party for PS5? (including cross gen)

Black Myth Wukong looks significantly better but is let down by abysmal image quality on PS5, hence why I said the true test will be those titles. We know many more are coming too, so If PSSR can solve the IQ issues with UE5 titles it'll be a big win.

It's not just UE5 titles either, Avatar for example has RTGI on console and incredible foliage, but again is let down by shonky upscaling tech.

 

[Zeusexy]

The amount of copium, lol.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Oh, shut up. If this was an xbox you would be praising it non stop.

With an AMD solution? Are you on crack?

Why would anyone think AMD and Sony could catch Nvidia in their first attempt when Nvidia has been doing this for over 6 years and 3 generations of video cards?

If it comes close I'll give them the props they deserve.

So

 

[hlm666]

Not much.

If it's not improved over ps4 it is not something you can just ignore and not proportionate. Here's a slide from the ps4 which also used to terrible jag cores. Going by the slide if you use 10GB for cpu it's costing 30GB from the gpu. It's something to think about when we see shit like space marine 2 and UE5 games cratering to 720p with low frame rates. Maybe they fixed it for ps5 to some degree but good devs wont be over looking it.

 

[kazuyamishima]

I hope PSSR will be as good as Sony is saying.

And I saw at some other websites that PSSR is an attempt by Sony to Diminish the results of DLSS on Nintendo Switch 2.

 

[MarV0]

The hilarious part is this idea that AMD and Sony had a secret sauce for some type of image reconstruction far better than the industry-leading one (Nvidia), but they chose to kept it a secret so far, only to use it for the PS5 Pro rather than making it available on the same hardware on the PC side.

Snake oil salesmen have existed in one form or another since forever for a reason. People by nature are desperate to believe on the "secret sauce".

 

[mansoor1980]

"As time goes by, particularly for the games which are launching after the hardware releases, we'll increasingly see a more nuanced approach, where the focus is less on resolution, and much more about higher image quality through a variety of strategies."

an important quote from cerny

 

[Calverz]

Interesting. Will be good to see the comparisons. Hope they use a third party unreal engine game.