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[Radical_3d]

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[IDWhite]

Sony is losing their mind if they think this Ps5 pro are gonna change something. People aren't going to pay more for an updated console that no longer has exclusives.

Without doing a proper PlayStation showcase to show exclusive first party single player games with big visual differences this system is going to sell even less that the Ps4 pro.

If now most devs don't care of the dedicated hardware on the Original Ps5 the one on the Ps5 pro is going to have even less care.

 

[Alebrije]

Sony is losing their mind if they think this Ps5 pro are gonna change something. People aren't going to pay more for an updated console that no longer has exclusives.

Without doing a proper PlayStation showcase to show exclusive first party single player games with big visual differences this system is going to sell even less that the Ps4 pro.

If now most devs don't care of the dedicated hardware on the Original Ps5 the one on the Ps5 pro is going to have even less care.

Sorry but what does Sony needs to change? They Will closed a great year Even without their IPs and flaws like Concord.

2025 Will be great If You have a PS5 PRO..also it's a Niche Console nobody expect it Will sell like the PS5. A Showcase Would be great but is Also not a must since is a Niche Console.

 

[IDWhite]

Sorry but what does Sony needs to change? They Will closed a great year Even without their IPs and flaws like Concord.

2025 Will be great If You have a PS5 PRO..also it's a Niche Console nobody expect it Will sell like the PS5. A Showcase Would be great but is Also not a must since is a Niche Console.

Sony has made this console with the purpose of keeping its most demanding users within the ecosystem. Without exclusive games and higher prices they are not going to get people to stay.

 

[King Dazzar]

Sony has made this console with the purpose of keeping its most demanding users within the ecosystem. Without exclusive games and higher prices they are not going to get people to stay.

Lets see how much it comes in at first. As long as its reasonable I'm still onboard. If its silly, then I'll pay even more, but build a new gaming PC instead. You'd hope that PS are mindful enough to not take the piss too much.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Spidey Sense is telling me we should get an announcement later this week.

What about you HeisenbergFX4 ... or should I say Heisenberg "a buddy of mine" FX4. I kid of course.

 

[Elios83]

So which reveal option do you think they'll take?

1)Traditional asmr mini-conference with Cerny, different games taking advantage of the system will be showcased.
2)Articles suddenly popping on some selected tech oriented publications with all the technical details, games showcased separately with dedicated trailers.
3)A blogpost telling people that it's coming and that's it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Spidey Sense is telling me we should get an announcement later this week.

What about you HeisenbergFX4 ... or should I say Heisenberg "a buddy of mine" FX4. I kid of course.

I think they will let Astrobot launch first

 

[mckmas8808]

I think they will let Astrobot launch first

Smart move.

 

[TheRedRiders]

So which reveal option do you think they'll take?

1)Traditional asmr mini-conference with Cerny, different games taking advantage of the system will be showcased.
2)Articles suddenly popping on some selected tech oriented publications with all the technical details, games showcased separately with dedicated trailers.
3)A blogpost telling people that it's coming and that's it.

Hopefully just 1 and a bit of 2

 

[VictorVectors]

So which reveal option do you think they'll take?

20 second sizzle reel

Show side by side of GTA VI screens with and without ray tracing

Show the Pro launch date while mentioning exclusive content “ONLY ON PLAYSTATION”

$600 PS5 Pro digital
$400 PS5 digital

Walk away

 

[Euler007]

Sony is losing their mind if they think this Ps5 pro are gonna change something.

What is it you think they need to change? The PS5 is tracking the PS4 launch aligned. Every great game that came out on the PS4 is playable on the PS5, and the first party studios have had a great first four years.

 

[Bitstream]

I'm thinking the earliest we'll see anythign is tuesday or wednesday the week after astrobot launches

 

[Alebrije]

Just imagine a Astrobot conbo with a PRO.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I'm thinking the earliest we'll see anythign is tuesday or wednesday the week after astrobot launches

So next week

 

[Bitstream]

I suppose its time to start announcing our predictions, hopes and dreams...

Few days after astrobot launches - cryptic blog post about state of play
state of play - pro preorder announcement + release date, sneak peek at DS2 running on PS5 pro, hopefully some sort of mini chat with Cerny, wolverine gameplay reveal??, 'more to come' at TGS
TGS - more games running on pro at the booth (Silent Hill 2???, final fantasy, sm2, rachet clank), hopefully some PS5 pro footage of new titles (Resident evil 9?, )

PS5 Pro - 600, disc drive extra, maybe a 650 disk drive bundle?

 

[DJ12]

I think they will let Astrobot launch first

Will be funny if the image shown in the trailer was actually the pro all along.

And astrobot is the announcement.

 

[Radical_3d]

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

With the death of Concord we may get this announcement sooner to get some good juju going

 

[Pop]

20 second sizzle reel

Show side by side of GTA VI screens with and without ray tracing

Show the Pro launch date while mentioning exclusive content “ONLY ON PLAYSTATION”

$600 PS5 Pro digital
$400 PS5 digital

Walk away

 

[Radical_3d]

With the death of Concord we may get this announcement sooner to get some good juju going

I was thinking the same! But I rejected it as delusions of a starved consumer.

 

[NeonDelta]

With the death of Concord we may get this announcement sooner to get some good juju going

This was my thought too, easy way to bury bad news

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Sony is losing their mind if they think this Ps5 pro are gonna change something. People aren't going to pay more for an updated console that no longer has exclusives.

Without doing a proper PlayStation showcase to show exclusive first party single player games with big visual differences this system is going to sell even less that the Ps4 pro.

If now most devs don't care of the dedicated hardware on the Original Ps5 the one on the Ps5 pro is going to have even less care.

This is that kinda short sighted thinking that we only see on forums.


No longer has exclusives? What kinda nonsense is that? Because their games are also on PC (on average two years later)? Have any idea how stupid or ignorant it is to assume that all gamers will sooner choose to buy or build a PC than just get a console? How would you then explain the nearly 60M PS5s sold thus far? There are a lot of people just would just buy a PSs5pproo because its the best Playstation on the market. Not even knowing what really makes it different to the base PS5. We are in a world where people will spend $200 more for more storage on their phone... and you think somehow spending $100 more for a console is unreasonable?

Sony has made this console with the purpose of keeping its most demanding users within the ecosystem. Without exclusive games and higher prices they are not going to get people to stay.

Again.. more sensationalist generalizations. If we first assume that what you are saying is true... and that the sole reason sonyt is making the pro is to resell hardware to people that already own a S5 (hope you see how silly that sounds when reading it like that), then you should also consider that to people that already own a PS5, they are getting a PS5pro at half price because they would likely sell their current PS5.

And again, the ignorance of what you are saying... what does get people to stay mean? That PS5 owners are going to do some sort of mass exodus and go to PC because getting a PC as powerful than the PS5pro (or even the PS5) is cheaper and you can play all Sony games on there?

Do you really believe that's how any of that works?

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I think they will let Astrobot launch first

I'll be buying Astrobot....once the Pro launches lol.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'll be buying Astrobot....once the Pro launches lol.

I am waiting for the Pro as well

 

[PaintTinJr]

Read this...

was from a year or two back. Scroll down to the workgroup compute characteristics section. However, this is for RDNA3. We wont know what kinda improvements have been done with regards to RDNA4 or the PS5pro.

Thanks for the link, that was a great read, and interestingly ....assuming I understood the article -especially the relevant paragraph halfway down about V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_F16 - and how AMD ISA denotes instructions for the two instructions:

V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_F16
and
V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_BF16

Going by what the article said, I'm taking the first instruction as a dual issue instruction, where presumably two vectors v1 [x, y, z, w] and v2[s, t, q, r] with eight FP16 components total(packed in pairs into FP32) so
1st instruction [xy] dot [st] = RPM (x * s) + (y * t) = A
2nd instruction[zw] dot, [qr] = RPM (z * q) + (w * r) = B
Accumulate = A+B

And the same for the BF16 datatype which AFAIK is a specialist neural network leaning FP data type (by Google) for clamped data that swaps 3 significant bits of FP16 for 3 more decimal bits, that just so happens to match FP32 datatype's decimal bit precision. Making it ideal for FP32 high precision AI ML inference but just using 16bits of data.

Each inference depending on the variable count is effectively broken down into a multitude of those dual issue dot2 accumulations as expanded below(assuming I haven't misinterpreted anything) which for the purpose of PSSR would mean that between both RPM and dual issue that would effectively be 4 times the throughput of FP32, but at the precision of FP32 if using BF16

i = x * s + y * t + z * q + w * r ........

 

[KeplerL2]

Thanks for the link, that was a great read, and interestingly ....assuming I understood the article -especially the relevant paragraph halfway down about V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_F16 - and how AMD ISA denotes instructions for the two instructions:

V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_F16
and
V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_BF16

Going by what the article said, I'm taking the first instruction as a dual issue instruction, where presumably two vectors v1 [x, y, z, w] and v2[s, t, q, r] with eight FP16 components total(packed in pairs into FP32) so
1st instruction [xy] dot [st] = RPM (x * s) + (y * t) = A
2nd instruction[zw] dot, [qr] = RPM (z * q) + (w * r) = B
Accumulate = A+B

And the same for the BF16 datatype which AFAIK is a specialist neural network leaning FP data type (by Google) for clamped data that swaps 3 significant bits of FP16 for 3 more decimal bits, that just so happens to match FP32 datatype's decimal bit precision. Making it ideal for FP32 high precision AI ML inference but just using 16bits of data.

Each inference depending on the variable count is effectively broken down into a multitude of those dual issue dot2 accumulations as expanded below(assuming I haven't misinterpreted anything) which for the purpose of PSSR would mean that between both RPM and dual issue that would effectively be 4 times the throughput of FP32, but at the precision of FP32 if using BF16

i = x * s + y * t + z * q + w * r ........

PSSR almost certainly uses WMMA instructions.

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

Hit the red button Sony, it’s time

The streets are on fire

 

[TheRedRiders]

PSSR almost certainly uses WMMA instructions.

Do you have any opinions on Sony claiming that the Pro’s ML architecture is “custom”, this was in their leaked slides.

I imagine they would be using RDNA 3/4 ML technology, but judging by the words used it sounds like they may have a more bespoke ML hardware or software on the Pro.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but those slides aren’t marketing material either and were meant for developers so I don’t think the use of “custom” was marketing fluff.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Do you have any opinions on Sony claiming that the Pro’s ML architecture is “custom”, this was in their leaked slides.

I imagine they would be using RDNA 3/4 ML technology, but judging by the words used it sounds like they may have a more bespoke ML hardware or software on the Pro.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but those slides aren’t marketing material either and were meant for developers so I don’t think the use of “custom” was marketing fluff.

I mean most expect software would be fully bespoke but it wouldn't be surprising if at least some hardware parts are also bespoke. They already designed custom hardware (still not seen on any other AMD product) to accelerate image reconstruction on PS4 Pro. Custom could also mean they brought into PS5 Pro only the stuff they would need for PSSR (while RDNA4 would also get stuff that could be used on non-gaming stuff). Like the way they ditched some parts of Zen 2 design on PS5.

 

[blastprocessor]

Just imagine a Astrobot conbo with a PRO.

They did pack in Horizon Zero Dawn in the PS4 Pro pack l bought.

 

[KeplerL2]

Do you have any opinions on Sony claiming that the Pro’s ML architecture is “custom”, this was in their leaked slides.

I imagine they would be using RDNA 3/4 ML technology, but judging by the words used it sounds like they may have a more bespoke ML hardware or software on the Pro.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but those slides aren’t marketing material either and were meant for developers so I don’t think the use of “custom” was marketing fluff.

The numbers seem to match RDNA4's throughput, so I'm not sure what they consider to be custom.

Perhaps they took the MI series approach of having a separate register file just for ML instructions.

 

[nick776]

Will be funny if the image shown in the trailer was actually the pro all along.

And astrobot is the announcement.

That is what I've been saying too.

 

[Physiognomonics]

The numbers seem to match RDNA4's throughput, so I'm not sure what they consider to be custom.

Perhaps they took the MI series approach of having a separate register file just for ML instructions.

Wait what GPU frequency would be necessary to reach 300 TOPs? I thought max was 2.35ghz?

 

[KeplerL2]

Wait what GPU frequency would be necessary to reach 300 TOPs? I thought max was 2.35ghz?

60 CUs x 1024 ops/cycle/CU x 2.35 GHz x 2 (if sparse matrix) = 288 TOPs

 

[ChiefDada]

So 288 and not 300? I can't see Sony further rounding up ai performance spec from gpu clock they have admittedly described as "absolute max". Why would they do it for AI performance but undersell theoretical Teraflops? Weird.

 

[RoboFu]

Come on Sony we need all that power to NOT play concord!

Maybe it's taking so long because they had this big reveal vid showcasing concord with a concord LE edition???

 

[Parazels]

Keppler said PS5 Pro is like AMD 7700 with better RT performance.

Sounds good enough.

 

[Katajx]

Next week…in game magazines.

 

[PaintTinJr]

PSSR almost certainly uses WMMA instructions.

For both inference in addition to training?

And if so is that because that V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_BF16 capability has been brought into WMMA on the RDNA4 ISA?

From reading I assumed in RDNA3 those two dual issue 16bit (RPM) capable instructions couldn't be used with WMMA from what the article stated meaning that inference on RDNA3 would still get better performance from V_DUAL_DOT2ACC_F32_BF16 by being dual issue and RPM than just RPM via WMMA instructions, or did I misunderstand or is the article incorrect about dual issue with RPM being restricted to those two V_DUAL instructions?

For comparison the PS5 GoW Ragnarok ML AI inference upscaler on page 48-49 of pdf does an performance optimisation that sounds very similar to a manual implementation of the dot2acc.

We can drastically cut down the number of load requests by loading as
much data per instruction as possible.

On a PS5, we can use the buffer_load_dwordx4 instruction which loads
128 bits or 8 half’s at once.

128 bits or 8 half’s at once.

We accommodated this by switching to processing 4 rows and 2 columns per loop.

 

[Tqaulity]

So 288 and not 300? I can't see Sony further rounding up ai performance spec from gpu clock they have admittedly described as "absolute max". Why would they do it for AI performance but undersell theoretical Teraflops? Weird.

Yeah one of many things that don't add up with the "leaked" specs. You guys will see soon enough....

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

 

[Lagspike_exe]

So 288 and not 300? I can't see Sony further rounding up ai performance spec from gpu

Yeah one of many things that don't add up with the "leaked" specs. You guys will see soon enough....

I think it was just rounded up to protect the sources.

 

[IDWhite]

This is that kinda short sighted thinking that we only see on forums.


No longer has exclusives? What kinda nonsense is that? Because their games are also on PC (on average two years later)? Have any idea how stupid or ignorant it is to assume that all gamers will sooner choose to buy or build a PC than just get a console? How would you then explain the nearly 60M PS5s sold thus far? There are a lot of people just would just buy a PSs5pproo because its the best Playstation on the market. Not even knowing what really makes it different to the base PS5. We are in a world where people will spend $200 more for more storage on their phone... and you think somehow spending $100 more for a console is unreasonable?

Again.. more sensationalist generalizations. If we first assume that what you are saying is true... and that the sole reason sonyt is making the pro is to resell hardware to people that already own a S5 (hope you see how silly that sounds when reading it like that), then you should also consider that to people that already own a PS5, they are getting a PS5pro at half price because they would likely sell their current PS5.

And again, the ignorance of what you are saying... what does get people to stay mean? That PS5 owners are going to do some sort of mass exodus and go to PC because getting a PC as powerful than the PS5pro (or even the PS5) is cheaper and you can play all Sony games on there?

Do you really believe that's how any of that works?

Maybe instead of making new hardware they can focus on games. And maybe they are more important now that we are approaching the end phase of Ps5 life and we don't have proper Ps5 exclusive titles that take full advantage of the original Ps5 hardware.

If you think i'm ignorant because i'm saying that a lot of people are going to migrate to PC then Andrew House and by extension Sony are equally ignorants. Andrew was the one who stated that PS4 Pro was launched, among other things, with the aim of keeping the most demanding players in terms of visuals and performance in its ecosystem.

Regarding the PlayStation 4 Pro, he suggested the Xbox wasn’t even being considered its main competition. Rather, it was the PC. “I saw some data that really influenced me,” he said. “It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

article

Ps5 has sold a lot of units because they made and incredible hardware and people were expecting the same direction on single player focus and exclusives they have in the past, but also because they have little to no competence from Xbox.

PC's are more expensive of course. But buying 2 or 3 different consoles and paying online subscriptions for every one aren't cheaper. On PC you have now all the games on a single device and you don't need to pay extra for other services. And yes, you may have to wait 1 or 2 years for those PS games to arrive to PC, but many people don't mind having to wait, especially now that we have so many games to play and there isn't enough time for them all.

 

[No_Cartridge]

I think it was just rounded up to protect the sources.

The source for the fact that the PS5 Pro supports 300TOPS 8 bit computation came from the PS5 Pro Dev Document.

 

[TheRedRiders]

The source for the fact that the PS5 Pro supports 300TOPS 8 bit computation came from the PS5 Pro Dev Document.

It's entirely possible that the image was edited and that 300 number was added in - then again, DF did also see the documentation and corroborated the same leak, and I don't think they were in dispute of the 300 TOPS figure either so who knows.

 

[Loxus]

The source for the fact that the PS5 Pro supports 300TOPS 8 bit computation came from the PS5 Pro Dev Document.

Right but clocks don't match the 2.35GHz.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Right but clocks don't match the 2.35GHz.

Chill guys, that's a 4% difference. Likely to protect sources.