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[Elios83]

there are leaks that suggest the difference isn't big afaik.

Up to 4x the PS5 ray tracing performance. That's not big, it's huge indeed.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

it's 33tflops not 15, but in old teraflop terms we'd be looking at between 15-17rdna 2 tflops.

 

[kevboard]

Can you see into the future?

Or just talk out of your ass?

I can see the leaked specs which are probably accurate as everything else about the system has also already leaked and was shown to be accurate. from the code name to the design.

an RDNA gpu with the real world performance of roughly a 15 to 17 TFLOPS RDNA2 equivalent, a focus on ML Upsampling and RT Improvements

 

[ChiefDada]

the PS5 pro is the smallest mid gen upgrade ever... it will get RT reflections at 30fps at best.

Lol "ever" we only have one generation (last gen) to compare. But still, no. This Pro upgrade is far more substantial.

we are talking 10 TFLOPS vs 15 TFLOPS here... that's a tiny jump. the biggest improvement will come from PSSR, and that can't do wonders lol

Huh? ML upscaling has been proven capable of cutting frame time by half while maintaining very similar image quality. Wonderful indeed. And that's before we get into the 50% raw gpu uplift and 3x faster RT.

 

[Bitstream]

To all the naysayers and doubters, I'm looking forward to your concerns being answered. With the PS5 Design, Cerny, a game developer himself, looked at the typical problems game developers have, and tried to design solutions to resolve these specifically. The result was a bespoke console that delivered superior performance compared to other consoles and even GPU's that were theoretically more powerful. Now, Cerny is back with even more innovations that are fueled by his countless years of game dev experience. Everyone put aside your rudimentary understanding of 'TFLOPS' for the next 16 hours, and let the genius speak. You may learn something.

 

[bundylove]

it has, but AMD's shitty hardware can only be pushed so much.

I think to get to 60fps on PC you need to run at 1080p FSR Balanced mode, which is below 720p, and that is raytracing on high preset, not even pathtracing.

AMD's raytracing hardware is absolutely awful compared to Nvidia. These pathtracing modes are basically Nvidia exclusive at this point in time, unless you want to play at 10fps.

even my mid-range RTX3060ti can do pathtracing faster than any AMD card on the market.
let that sink in for a moment... my last gen mid range card beats AMD's current gen top tier card

Well here is hoping that cerny and sony did some modificatiin to the hardware.

 

[bundylove]

Why are perpetually concerned? You'll get a fair amount of your questions addressed in less than 24 hours.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

 

[Gaiff]

 

[kevboard]

Lol "ever" we only have one generation (last gen) to compare. But still, no. This Pro upgrade is far more substantial.

10 TFLOPS to ~16 TFLOPS is tiny compared to the more than 2x jump of the pro and the 5x jump of the One X

 

[Skifi28]

10 TFLOPS to ~16 TFLOPS is tiny compared to the more than 2x jump of the pro and the 5x jump of the One X

I thought people learned their lesson about comparing TFLOPs by now. Especially with how that's not the biggest thing the pro brings to the table.

 

[kevboard]

I thought people learned their lesson about comparing TFLOPs by now. Especially with how that's not the biggest thing the pro brings to the table.

comparing TFLOPS of the same or similar architecture, ESPECIALLY with PC hardware that can be used as reference.

and the biggest upgrade of the PS4 Pro was also not the raw GPU jump but also checkerboard rendering on top of it.

the PS4 Pro could at times create an image that looks close to 4x the resolution compared to the normal PS4.

 

[Physiognomonics]

10 TFLOPS to ~16 TFLOPS is tiny compared to the more than 2x jump of the pro and the 5x jump of the One X

We don't know the final TFLOPS number. It's likely going to be higher than this.

 

[kevboard]

We don't know the final TFLOPS number. It's likely going to be higher than this.

It's not... that's already with a really high clock speed afaik. and under no circumstances will ot rach a 2x+ increase in GPU power like the PS4 pro did

 

[MisterXDTV]

Mark Cerny is on another level, as simple as that

The way he is able to stay within a budget, while creating a competitive gaming machine every single time is truly remarkable

 

[ChiefDada]

10 TFLOPS to ~16 TFLOPS is tiny compared to the more than 2x jump of the pro and the 5x jump of the One X

We are deep into a hybrid RT generation that has caused consoles with relatively minimal RT consideration to not perform ideally. RT hardware and ML upscaling address this limitation far beyond what would be possible with additional TF performance.

 

[Elios83]

comparing TFLOPS of the same or similar architecture, ESPECIALLY with PC hardware that can be used as reference.

and the biggest upgrade of the PS4 Pro was also not the raw GPU jump but also checkerboard rendering on top of it.

the PS4 Pro could at times create an image that looks close to 4x the resolution compared to the normal PS4.

PS5 Pro simply needs the raster improvement necessary to raise the internal resolution enough so that PSRR can do its job as intended.
Improvements in image quality in 60fps games will be huge and we'll see this soon enough.
Coupled with the generational improvements in ray tracing performance, in real world scenarios this is going to offer bigger benefits than what we got in PS4 Pro.
The downplay won't end well.

 

[Physiognomonics]

It's not... that's already with a really high clock speed afaik. and under no circumstances will ot rach a 2x+ increase in GPU power like the PS4 pro did

Just wait for the final reveal. People were sure PS5 was going to be 9TF based on leaks.

 

[molly14]

What a massive disappointment that its only a 9 minute presentation.

Such an interesting guy to listen too as well.

Take off the introduction its probably only going to be an actual 7 minute presentation.

Maybe some longer chat about the pro from Cerny later on in the year?

 

[kevboard]

PS5 Pro simply needs the raster improvement necessary to raise the internal resolution enough so that PSRR can do its job as intended.
Improvements in image quality in 60fps games will be huge and we'll see this soon enough.
Coupled with the generational improvements in ray tracing performance, in real world scenarios this is going to offer bigger benefits than what we got in PS4 Pro.
The downplay won't end well.

I am not downplaying anything, I am telling people that expecting anything even remotely like Alan Wake 2 with pathtracing is absolutely nonsensical given that not even the BEST AMD GPU can do that at any playable framerate and resolution

the Pro will be a system with better image quality and enough RT grunt to use it without as many drawbacks as the base system.

Anyone who expects anything more than this will get disappointed

Just wait for the final reveal. People were sure PS5 was going to be 9TF based on leaks.

Different situation this time. None expected the PS5 to ramp up clock speeds by using liquid metal to keep temperatures in check.

this time there is no surprise they could have to increase the GPU performance above what is leaked. at least not substantially

 

[Elios83]

I am not downplaying anything, I am telling people that expecting anything even remotely like Alan Wake 2 with pathtracing is absolutely nonsensical given that not even the BEST AMD GPU can do that at any playable framerate and resolution

the Pro will be a system with better image quality and enough RT grunt to use it without as many drawbacks as the base system.

Anyone who expects anything more than this will get disappointed





Different situation this time. None expected the PS5 to ramp up clock speeds by using liquid metal to keep temperatures in check.

this time there is no surprise they could have to increase the GPU performance above what is leaked. at least not substantially

So we have gone from "less impressive than PS4 Pro upgrade" and "the ray tracing upgrade won't be much" to "but it won't run Alan Wake2 with path tracing" that no one has ever stated in the thread to expect since no one wants to pay 3000$ for this.

It will be the best value in gaming hardware for a long while.

 

[Euler007]

I can see the leaked specs which are probably accurate as everything else about the system has also already leaked and was shown to be accurate. from the code name to the design.

an RDNA gpu with the real world performance of roughly a 15 to 17 TFLOPS RDNA2 equivalent, a focus on ML Upsampling and RT Improvements

So the latter then.

 

[King Dazzar]

 

[Physiognomonics]

I am not downplaying anything, I am telling people that expecting anything even remotely like Alan Wake 2 with pathtracing is absolutely nonsensical given that not even the BEST AMD GPU can do that at any playable framerate and resolution

the Pro will be a system with better image quality and enough RT grunt to use it without as many drawbacks as the base system.

Anyone who expects anything more than this will get disappointed





Different situation this time. None expected the PS5 to ramp up clock speeds by using liquid metal to keep temperatures in check.

this time there is no surprise they could have to increase the GPU performance above what is leaked. at least not substantially

There will be a few surprises, probably not big, but still. We know some data on the leaked doc were likely altered to protect the sources. One of the only confirmed specs is from Sony: GPU clock at 2.35 ghz meaning 18 TFLOPS GPU, not 16 TFLOPS.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I guess it depends what "prototyping" means or is referring to. I could see it meaning prototype dev kits with the finished SoC being in first-party hands in ~ April 2023 assuming a November 2024 release. That would be 19 months.

I hope Tom comes through and posts the full timeline for context.

 

[Radical_3d]

4-5 x RT performance which would put it firmly in Nvidia territory.

5-6 x RT.

Spoiler

I just wanted to rise the RT performance window for no reason and no evidence whatsoever, like the cool kids.

 

[kevboard]

"but it won't run Alan Wake2 with path tracing" that no one has ever stated in the thread to expect since no one wants to pay 3000$ for this.

this is literally how the conversation started... if you can't be arsed to read the context of what I say then stop trying to insert yourself into the conversation.



but for future reference here is how this all started before people came in completely ignoring the context of what I said:

Ok how bout this.

I buy your gobbledeedoo. But at least show alan wake 2 with rt 60 or path trace 30.

That would make my anus glow

you expect RTX 4080+ performance here.

the PS5 pro is the smallest mid gen upgrade ever... it will get RT reflections at 30fps at best.

we are talking 10 TFLOPS vs 15~17 TFLOPS here... that's a tiny jump. the biggest improvement will come from PSSR, and that can't do wonders lol

Again if the magic bullet is the pssr i am shure it can wing PT in alan wake 2 at a base 720 resolution. There is nothing going on in that game.

Point is they can only wim me over in 9 minutes if they show me somwthing of value.

As you said, otherwise it would be the smallest upgrade and not worth to jump on it for a while

look at pathtracing performance on PC. AMD raytracing is still trash. won't happen

 

[Hawking Radiation]

At last

 

[Pedro Motta]

At last

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Any leaks?

 

[BlitzerRadic]

it has, but AMD's shitty hardware can only be pushed so much.

I think to get to 60fps on PC you need to run at 1080p FSR Balanced mode, which is below 720p, and that is raytracing on high preset, not even pathtracing.

AMD's raytracing hardware is absolutely awful compared to Nvidia. These pathtracing modes are basically Nvidia exclusive at this point in time, unless you want to play at 10fps.

even my mid-range RTX3060ti can do pathtracing faster than any AMD card on the market.
let that sink in for a moment... my last gen mid range card beats AMD's current gen top tier card

Damn homie if PS5 Pro sucks so much just dont buy it. Why you have to keep complaining?

 

[kevboard]

Damn homie if PS5 Pro sucks so much just dont buy it. Why you have to keep complaining?

I'm buying it day 1.

I can't keep fanboys from completely misinterpreting what I say because their feelings get hurt when I tell them to stop expecting the impossible.
I have come to learn that the amount of console fanboyism on this forum seems to be ridiculously high. which is sad

 

[Fafalada]

the PS4 Pro could at times create an image that looks close to 4x the resolution compared to the normal PS4.

The same leaks you refer to also claimed actual resolution increase on par with PS4 Pro (1080->1440).
If PSSR performs anywhere close to other AI upscalers - the Pro will consistently do 4x perceptual increase (if not better).

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I'm buying it day 1.

I can't keep fanboys from completely misinterpreting what I say because their feelings get hurt when I tell them to stop expecting the impossible.
I have come to learn that the amount of console fanboyism on this forum seems to be ridiculously high. which is sad

You right, everyone else wrong. Youre not complaining you just educating stupid fanboys. Lmao listen to yourself

 

[RodriGames40]

look at pathtracing performance on PC. AMD raytracing is still trash. won't happen

You do know the architecture on this isn't RDNA3 right? There's not a single AMD GPU currently running in this one.

 

[farmerboy]

9 min?

Barely enough time to soak in the hot tub

 

[bitbydeath]

It's not... that's already with a really high clock speed afaik. and under no circumstances will ot rach a 2x+ increase in GPU power like the PS4 pro did

It’s 3-4x higher.
#Team36TF.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

The same leaks you refer to also claimed actual resolution increase on par with PS4 Pro (1080->1440).
If PSSR performs anywhere close to other AI upscalers - the Pro will consistently do 4x perceptual increase (if not better).

If games go from 1080p + FSR2 to 1440p + PSSR, the difference will be massive assuming PSSR is ~ XeSS. That's a massive difference in quality, considering how poor FSR2 is.

 

[ChiefDada]

It’s 3-4x higher.
#Team36TF.

I wonder if Cerny will be able to provide an example of dual issue compute being used on the Pro tomorrow?

 

[SegaSnatcher]

 

[bitbydeath]

I wonder if Cerny will be able to provide an example of dual issue compute being used on the Pro tomorrow?

A lot of people are disregarding it, but:
1) It wouldn’t be advertised as 36TF if they didn’t have a means to reach it.
2) 8K is not possible with 17TF, it requires 36TF, as can be seen with the 3090.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

A lot of people are disregarding it, but:
1) It wouldn’t be advertised as 36TF if they didn’t have a means to reach it.
2) 8K is not possible with 17TF, it requires 36TF, as can be seen with the 3090.

Literally nobody cares about 8K.

 

[Imtjnotu]

9 min?

Barely enough time to soak in the hot tub

Better than the 2 you normally last

 

[bitbydeath]

Literally nobody cares about 8K.

You may not care but it’s part of the leaked specs.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

You may not care but it’s part of the leaked specs.

I would be surprised if 8K is mentioned once in the PS5 Pro event.

 

[Radical_3d]

A lot of people are disregarding it, but:
1) It wouldn’t be advertised as 36TF if they didn’t have a means to reach it.
2) 8K is not possible with 17TF, it requires 36TF, as can be seen with the 3090.

It requires real 36TF, not 17 with dual issue. Dual issue isn’t the secret sauce that you think it is.

 

[bitbydeath]

I would be surprised if 8K is mentioned once in the PS5 Pro event.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s mentioned as a selling point.

 

[bitbydeath]

It requires real 36TF, not 17 with dual issue. Dual issue isn’t the secret sauce that you think it is.

Dual issue 3090 is 35TF, which is the same TF as 3090’s single issue.

[Insert Dramatic Music]

Maybe it wasn’t secret sauce before because it’s new?

 

[Gerdav]

T minus 8 hours 40 minutes, damn today is going to bloody drag.

 

[Imtjnotu]

its almost time to say good bye...


but ill be seeing yall in the PS6 Thread