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Reggie: "Xbox(2) ... is a mistake"
- Thread starter Kon Tiki
- Start date
AlphaSnake said:
Never have I read so much BS and wishful thinking in one post. BTW, click here for some laughs. :lol
PhatSaqs said:
Never said it was the only reason. But it's a big reason why, before it even launched, alot of people never took it seriously. X-BOX & PS2 look like big dark powerful hulking SERIOUS machines. GAMECUBE was almost the opposite and looked silly in a time when Nintendo NEEDED to look serious. I would say that this is the main reason why X-BOX is ahead of GAMECUBE in the west...mindshare...MS has a better image 'cos Nintendo hurt their own image...and mindshare does effect marketshare.
To note I also mentioned that Nintendo ignored MS before this generation started...which was also a mistake that I don't see them making again. I blame that on Mr. Yamauchi and his Japanese focus.
Gek54 said:
Lemme reword that part:
I seriously doubt Nintendo will ignore MS and make a pastel colored, toy-like system again like they did this generation. That's the main reason MS "beat" Nintendo so far this generation...'cos Nintendo shot themselves in the foot.
DopeyFish said:
Did I not say to play the "list war". The highest profile *exclussive* games next year are RE4 & LOZ, sorry, but they are. But since you insist:
-Splinter Cell 3- not exclussive, will be outshaddowed by Xenon Tom Clansey games
-Conker-looks nice and has me interested, but it's RARE, it's a remake & it likely won't sell well
-Forza-so high profile I barely know about it
-Kameo-see Conker and divide that by 10 since no one cares
-DOOM 3-Halo 2 will over shaddow it and every other FPS on X-BOX (plus I thought it was coming out this year? oh wait, it's also on PC already, so this isn't exclussive either)
-Far Cry-see Forza
-UC 2-see DOOM 3
Anyways, I don't consider most of those games you listed low profile, but I don't consider them in the same league as RE4 & LOZ either. BTW you forgot DOA Ultimate/Chronos & Jade Empire.
Prine said:
Again, this isn't a "list war". I merely stated the fact that right now we know of nothing coming out on X-BOX next year that will be in the same league as RE4 & LOZ. These games will not only sell well, but will be good games, overshaddow most other games across all platforms, sell systems, have possitive effects on Nintendo's image & mindshare and will plain just kick ass. They're both exclussive and look beautiful thus far to boot. If we're gonna play the "list war" then I KNOW that X-BOX will be the "winnar" 'cos it simply gets more support...that's not what I'm arguing. But if you want other *exclussive* great games (not high profile, but by no means low profile either) then here they are:
-Advance Wars
-Jungle Beat
-Geist
-Fire Emblem
-Killer 7
-Gundam
-Odama
-Star Fox
-Mario Tennis
These are games that will give GAMECUBE staying power next year, while X-BOX will have alot of games/support, I see that slowly dwindling in the wake of Xenon's approach, not to mention Halo 2 will probably still be outselling anything on X-BOX for the forseeable future. Certainly the X-BOX has got alot (more than GAMECUBE even) of games to list coming out next year, but how many of them diversify the existing market? How many will get attention with Halo 2 still selling over them and Xenon fast approaching? How many will sell well? How many will be exclussive? How many will be in the same league as RE4 or the new LOZ? None!
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
jarrod said:
How much of the console market does Nintendo hold? A brand that has existed for over 20 years now. If you don't know what looking at the bigger picture means, then don't even bother arguing who's the winner and who's the loser.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Leviathan said:
I know it hurts, pal. But that'll eventually become the reality of it. And that link does nothing for me. I'm not an Xbot and I laughed my damn ass off when that statement was made years ago, too. But MS has gotten wiser. They've stoped the cheesy PR ages ago.
Gek54 said:
No he's not. The majority of business classes (focusing on finance), focus on what a company has to sell to break-even and in turn make a profit. Marketshare has some importance, but the Xbox has not gained any significant market share. Instead of weakening their main threat (and the market leader, Sony), they have instead split Nintendo's previous marketshare (from last generation) with Nintendo. This has not only made one of Sony's competitors weaker, but has in turn made Sony stronger.
Shoryuken said:
No he is right. If you are making profits with declining marketshare, eventually you're going to have such an insignificant amount of people to sell to that it won't matter if you're turning a profit. Even if MS are losing money, they're gaining a foothold in a market where they previously had zero marketshare. Sure it's not significant but its more than it was 5 years ago. Haven't you heard of a loss leader?
I really don't care what happens in this industry, just that I get to continue to play awesome games.
Although, I readily admit my Nintendo love, I can appreciate that maybe the system doesn't appeal to certain demographics. But, I am more than willing to give Iwata the benefit of the doubt, as he has proven that he can deliver on certain things. For example, he greenlighted Advance Wars and Fire Emblem, the design of the DS and SP. He did state early on that they would offer the same extras that the competition would, and that the next system would have more mainstream appeal. We'll see...
As far as Xbox goes, I'm happy with it. I got it for Halo a month after launch, and while a damn fine game, it kinda fell apart after the Library level for me. I'm greatly anticipating Halo 2 though, and I'm hoping that with 2-3 years of development time, this one doesn't fall apart. We'll see...
Although, I readily admit my Nintendo love, I can appreciate that maybe the system doesn't appeal to certain demographics. But, I am more than willing to give Iwata the benefit of the doubt, as he has proven that he can deliver on certain things. For example, he greenlighted Advance Wars and Fire Emblem, the design of the DS and SP. He did state early on that they would offer the same extras that the competition would, and that the next system would have more mainstream appeal. We'll see...
As far as Xbox goes, I'm happy with it. I got it for Halo a month after launch, and while a damn fine game, it kinda fell apart after the Library level for me. I'm greatly anticipating Halo 2 though, and I'm hoping that with 2-3 years of development time, this one doesn't fall apart. We'll see...
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I don't care about which system everyone thinks is better, because all three have their strengths and weaknesses. I do agree that if XBOX 2 comes out next year it is too early. I'm completely satisfied with the graphics available on all three systems right now and I think most casuals are too. The reason I think it's too early is because a lot of people just bought a new system, and the graphics coming out in most next gen games (Doom 3, HL2, Quake 4 and Unreal Engine 3) are'nt as big of a leap as I would expect for a next gen system. I'm not saying those games look bad, I think they look good, but if I were to take look at Doom 3 and compare it to Halo 2, Conker, GT4, MGS 3, Zelda or RE 4 there's not that big of a gap. In the past that gap has been huge. I think they're definately rushing it.
You soothsaying the "death of Nintendo" is no better than some Nintendo fans proclaiming the death of the Xenon. Neither will happen so calm the fuck down retards. If this is all about becoming the "winnar" than Nintendo & MS should've given up last year...Sony has womped on both of 'em, if you're not realistic enough to realize that FACT then you're unrealistic "death of Nintendo" speech holds no water either.
"Revolution" is not the GAMECUBE either, are you X-BOT's just praying every night before you go to bed for this to be true? Nintendo starts all over next generation, so does Sony and so does the almighty MS. And going by what we know now, Nintendo won't be limping next generation and MS won't have the power edge to fall back on...and if there's also no BC, built-in HD, HD-DVD and/or other features then there goes MS's biggest advantage over Nintendo: possitive mindshare. If they have to lose billions to "beat" a limping Nintendo, how will they fair when things change next generation.
Your "business 101" crap doesn't hold up 'cos this is not fast food or department stores...this is the most radically changing form of business there can be. Mindshare is fickle, entertainment trends change all the time, but something that never changes is that Nintendo knows how to make money even when they're in a "distant 3RD" and up against the "big dogs", even when they make mistakes, even when things go wrong...they still make money. It's 'cos they care more about making money than saving face to make nice with forum "fanboys" like us. Get over it.
"Revolution" is not the GAMECUBE either, are you X-BOT's just praying every night before you go to bed for this to be true? Nintendo starts all over next generation, so does Sony and so does the almighty MS. And going by what we know now, Nintendo won't be limping next generation and MS won't have the power edge to fall back on...and if there's also no BC, built-in HD, HD-DVD and/or other features then there goes MS's biggest advantage over Nintendo: possitive mindshare. If they have to lose billions to "beat" a limping Nintendo, how will they fair when things change next generation.
Your "business 101" crap doesn't hold up 'cos this is not fast food or department stores...this is the most radically changing form of business there can be. Mindshare is fickle, entertainment trends change all the time, but something that never changes is that Nintendo knows how to make money even when they're in a "distant 3RD" and up against the "big dogs", even when they make mistakes, even when things go wrong...they still make money. It's 'cos they care more about making money than saving face to make nice with forum "fanboys" like us. Get over it.
Pedigree Chum
Banned
What's going to happen to the people who buy an XBox this year for Halo 2? They're going to feel burned when Xenon comes out with no BC, and only one year after buying their console. There will be a lot of people in this situation considering how H2 will fly off shelves along with Xboxen. Not a good way to start the Xenon MS.
Deg said:Thats why PSP will get beat DS let alone GBA while MS sit on the sidelines watching with xbox
Hilarious how you mention handhelds while I'm obviously speaking of consoles. Yep, Nintendo is on their last legs in the console market.
Xbox2 is going into next generation with momentum, can't say the same for Revolution...
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
jarrod said:
You keep painting it that way, but in the home market...no one matches the losing power of Gamecube NINTENDO.
Pedigree Chum
Banned
Fixed.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
jarrod said:
For Microsoft this situation isn't about Sony, not yet at least. The thing about the Xbox is that it's got an insane amount of potential. Do you realize how much the sales of the console will boost with the release of Halo 2 around the corner? By the time MS releases the follow-up console the Xbox will have sold at least 30 million in the US and UK combined and that isn't terrible. It's definitely a great foot through the door -- no where near Sony's mark, but we all know that Sony got lucky and survived only because of Nintendo's mistakes. If Sony had faltered with the PS2, the Xbox would've been its replacement hands-down.
You can't run a business by thinking of only tomorrow or the next week. You have to think years in advance. You have to study the market and its group. See how people react to certain things and how they adapt to it. You have to think way, way down the line. MS did this. It's clear that they did. And they're doing well for themselves.
Eh, Nintendo and MS look about equally fucked this gen imo. Nintendo's moderately profitable and (barely) relevant in all 3 major markets. Microsoft's bleeding billions doing decently in one market, barely relevant in another, dead and buried in the last. To be honest, they look pretty even overall considering their aspirtations for these platforms.Insertia said:Nintendo is the biggest loser.
Let's just take a quick look at these significant marketshare gains, shall we? For shits and giggles...
U.S.:
Sony: 60%
Microsoft: 21%
Nintendo: 19%
Europe:
Sony: 83%
Microsoft: 9%
Nintendo: 8%
Japan:
Sony: 80%
Nintendo: 18%
Microsoft: 2%
Worldwide:
Sony: 70%
Microsoft: 15%
Nintendo: 15%
...arguing who's the 'bigger loser' is null and void at this point.
U.S.:
Sony: 60%
Microsoft: 21%
Nintendo: 19%
Europe:
Sony: 83%
Microsoft: 9%
Nintendo: 8%
Japan:
Sony: 80%
Nintendo: 18%
Microsoft: 2%
Worldwide:
Sony: 70%
Microsoft: 15%
Nintendo: 15%
...arguing who's the 'bigger loser' is null and void at this point.
Floyd
Member
pilonv1 said:
Yea but its risky right. Why spend billions and bend over backwards to pull in the consumers when the console eventually comes to an end, the userbase disappears, and the cycle begins again from scratch.
Its a mainstream industry you cant rely on carried over loyalty anymore. Could work in the end. Could just as easily fall apart too.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
DrGAKMAN said:
First off, control your emotions and watch your mouth. You're acting like a flaming tard and no one's given you a reason to. I didn't proclaim Nintendo's death. I just said they'll take an even harder fall next-gen. And they will.
Second off, I'm not an Xbot. I'm the owner of a fairly large PS2 site. That out of the way...Nobody "starts all over" in the gaming industry. Every companies reputation precedes them. Sega's reputation preceded them twice. Once after their peripheral hell (32X and Sega CD) and again after the failure of the Saturn. Whap happened to Sega? 3rd party status. What about Atari? Same deal. Their reputation preceded them and they tanked hard. And Nintendo? Nintendo's slowly heading that way...the only thing stopping them is their ninja-ball-grip on the handheld market.
Go to college (like me). Learn business (like me). Work for a business corp. (like) and then tell me what you learn. The videogaming industry only chances when a company makes an enormous mistake with a console. And while yes, Nintendo always does make money, you should know that a vast majority of it comes from their handheld division. And this isn't about handhelds. This is about console marketshare. And hell...come December and then March we're going to see if Nintendo can even hold the handheld market in their hands.
Blazing Sword
Member
Comparing GBA numbers to XBOX numbers. Talk about the last resort of the desperate.
jarrod said:
Oh no, don't say that, they'll ignore it. Afterall it's ALL about the mindshare, which makes the X-BOX "the winnar"!1!! Mindshare is the only thing keeping them "ahead" and that's something that could very well faulter thanks to the shortened lifespan of X-BOX, premature launch of Xenon, bad transition without BC, no power edge and lack of features people expect. See how easily anyone can *proclaim* something on the net...
pilonv1 said:
You're forgetting that the market has expanded since last generation, thus even with relatively the same sales Nintendo can end up with less marketshare. At the pace Nintendo is going, at the end of the Generation, they'll most likely end up with around 25 million consoles sold, which is not far off the N64's 30 million.
Also Microsoft's foothold into the console industry is a shaky one at best. As I said earlier they've only managed to take away marketshare (or more accurately console sales) from Nintendo. While the PS2 is actually selling at a faster rate than the PS1. Also it isn't going to be as easy people believe for MS to take away marketshare from Sony. Based on current trends, the only territory where the Xenon can make a substantial gain on PS2 is in the US. In Europe as of June 2004, their console shipments were about 4 million lifetime, in comparison the GC has lifetime shipments around 3.6 million, while the PS2 has shipments that are well over 20 million. I don't think we even have to talk about Japan. Not to mention that Xenon is goint to lose some of Xbox's advantages (Most powerful system, hardrive(?), etc.)
If I were MS I'd be very wary. If their launch is indeed too early, you can be sure that Sony (and their hype machine) are going to pounce on it.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
explodet said:But isn't that the point - that the potential for the Xbox shouldn't be cut short by the Xenon launching next year?
Or are we on another point right now? I'm trying to keep up, but it's tough.
The point is marketshare, right? That's the basis. Where as the Xbox continues to sell more as time goes by, the GameCube sells less. The Xbox is continually gaining momentum as time goes by. We have cases of the Xbox even outselling the PS2 now and the GameCube's sales paling in comparison. By the end of the Xbox's run, MS will have a nice big foot in the door to kick start the campaign of their second console. Nintendo's last console will be remembered with ill thoughts as the console that came in last in this current gen. That's the scope of it.
AlphaSnake said:
What is "it"?
Yes, Microsoft is a little bit more humble and "conservative" now because they got their ass handed to them by Sony. But before the Xbox was released, they spouted overly optimistic BS (just like what some people are doing in this thread) while not realizing that this market is highly unpredictable. They eventually got stuck with a money sinkhole that will never make a profit. Robbie Bach even said this:
This is one of the reasons why they plan to kill the Xbox after four years.
If I was handing out grades for business acumen, ALL of you (with the notable exception of Shoryuken) would be failing. The whole point of being in business is to make money, PERIOD. There are certain strategies in which you choose to lose money on certain items, but the goal is to make money OVERALL. If you don't make money, you go out of business, or the stockholders make sure that you're gone.pilonv1 said:
When a supermarket advertises a "loss leader" item, the goal is to get you into the store so they can sell you other things and still make a profit on your entire purchase. It's an immediate loss coverage -- the store never actually fronts any money since they are making a profit on your visit. If that is actually Microsoft's strategy with the console, then they should have been making enough money on software licensing and sales to cover the loss on the hardware. Since MS is losing billions of dollars so far, I think we can safely say that if their strategy was to be a loss leader...they are succeeding BRILLIANTLY, since they are losing their asses. </SARCASM>
The only other possible strategy for MS would be to plan to lose a shitload of money to gain marketshare -- which, by the way, is not possible for any normal company to do, given their need to pay their bills and be responsible to their stockholders. Hell, if I had billions of dollars in the bank, I could run a company almost ANY way and not have it come down for a couple of years. Still, the only rational reason for trying that strategy is if you can guarantee a massively profitable follow-up product to cover your losses for the first time out. So what makes anyone think that their next-generation console is going to be a) the technological leader and b) highly profitable per unit?
Yeah, it sucks that Nintendo is losing marketshare, and they ought to be concerned. But don't give me any shit about MS being business geniuses because of their Xbox strategy. They are milking their OTHER monopoly to finance an insane venture into videogames, and so far, they are LUCKY that none of their investors have complained. According to their Q4 FY04 balance sheet, they have lost $1.2B in their Home and Entertainment division each of the last two years. OUCH.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Shoryken: I believe the final sales of the N64 were just over 40 million. Considering that...compare the final sales of the N64 to the forecasted final sales of the GameCube. The disparity is huge. Likewise, look at the PSOne and PS2 and you'll see that the ending will likely result with the PS2 cracking 100 million sales in a quicker span than the PSOne, thus leaving time to garner more sales.
Nintendo's console sales are decreasing, while Sony's are (possibly) increasing.
Nintendo's console sales are decreasing, while Sony's are (possibly) increasing.