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[Leviathan]

Yes, but MS gained marketshare in a tightly controlled maket where they had none. Considering that it mostly comes from one competitor, Nintendo, they have at least scored a (temporary) victory against one of their two 'foes.'

Victory? That is debatable. Keep in mind that Microsoft has NOT hurt Nintendo's ability to profit from this business. Remember, Nintendo has always been a game sales and profit focused company.

See above reply and that they've achieved and maintained a growing pace of sales against Nintendo's GC should give Nintendo a lot to fear when it comes to their continued console market presence and near-100% profitability in the future.

I don't think that Nintendo is too concerned about the Xbox. Nintendo knows, for example, that Zelda 2005 is going to be a massive hit and a huge profit generator. The DS and the Gameboy will generate additional profits as well. Therefore, they have nothing to fear.

I don't think one title disappointing many is going to be soley resposible for the downturn in sales of the platform it sell on. There are other popular games on the system, you know.

Like it or not, Halo is the Xbox's flagship franchise. If the sequel disappoints, the Xbox will be hurt.

Wild speculation, IMO. The games are what matter, right?

The Dreamcast had many great games, but it bombed. Games are important, but image is important too. Two of the things that made the Xbox attractive this generation (power advantage and hard drive) may be stripped from its successor. Don't be surprised if many Xbox owners start to chant, "the Xbox rules but the Xbox 2 sucks."

That's a very positive spin on, what seems to me, a darker and more uncertain situation currently.

To you it is a darker situation, but for Nintendo it is not. When Nintendo looks into the near future and sees mountains of cash headed their way, they can only be happy.

 

[Prine]

Xbox, without the help of Japan gaining more mindshare than Nintendo speaks for itself.

And its growing too.

 

[Project Midway]

When Nintendo looks into the near future and sees mountains of cash headed their way, they can only be happy.

No company is happy even if they see "mountains" of cash heading their way if at the same moment they are losing market and mindshare. PERIOD.

Or then people at Nintendo really are incompetent and deserve all the bad news/press they are getting.

 

[Che]

Actually, the only loser here is Microsoft. The Xbox was forecasted to sell 100 million units, but they fell very short of that target. Not ony that, but they are incapable of making money on the console. The hype surrounding the Xbox is at a fever pitch, yet they can barely sell more consoles on a worldwide basis than Nintendo. The hype surrounding the Xbox inevitably will die down (and I predict that this is going to happen after Halo 2 disappoints many Xbox owners), and when that happens the sales of the console will drop like a ton of bricks. If the Xbox 2 launches early and has less features built into it (like a hard drive) then the console will likely crash and burn like the Dreamcast.

You have a point there since Microsoft's flagship was power and the hdd. Now they failed to create all this hype they initially expected and the lack of those two on Xbox2 there will be serious problems for them. What I find rather odd is your certainty that Halo2 will dissapoint. Where do you base that? And you have to admit that no matter how much profit Nintendo makes they screwed it up this gen.

 

[Panajev2001a]

but we all know that Sony got lucky and survived only because of Nintendo's mistakes

I strongly disagree.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

- "Only 204 replies? I don't think I've pissed you off enough yet!"

 

[Cimarron]

Meh. You guys seem to have forgotten Sega's one and only shining moment... The Genesis. They launched early and was "underpowered". They effectively gave the Mighty N a black eye and a fat lip. So M$ strategy can work. They only error Sega made that gen was splitting thier userbase and walking away too early. That and the Saturn was a pile a Bantha poodoo. I don't see M$ making this mistake.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Damn...VB actually sold 2 million. Did the 4 diehard Nintendo fanboys on these boards buy a 1/2 million each

I'm interested to know how you came up with only 4? who?

Gahiggidy
Kobun
Olimario
Jarrod

the four whoresman of the aregcolypse?

 

[Brofist]

I'm interested to know how you came up with only 4? who?

Gahiggidy
Kobun
Olimario
Jarrod

the four whoresman of the aregcolypse?

:lol I just pulled that out my ass...but if you want me to take names like Reggie I can

 

[Celicar]

:lol

Reggie's hilarious. I love this guy!

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Xbox, without the help of Japan gaining more mindshare than Nintendo speaks for itself.

And its growing too.

eh... you just wait. Next gen; either PS3 / N5 will have the jap titles worth buying them for - the otogi post made awhile back is tantamount of this being the case- you need a balance of both east/west for have a good gaming diet; thank god for multi-console ownership In the meantime; have fun with more DOA.

Mindshare = bought. Please no one deny this fact; I won't deny that HALO / 2 has made the XBOX a worthy contender (as does Rallisport, NG, PGR). The japanese factor has to come into play

MS had lots of Japanese support at the start (or at least touted it a bit). Hello, two of the biggest titles at launch for me on the XBOX were GV + JSRF. Then there is Blinx and NG. This then eroded to a deluge of too many me-too FPS clones; western genri kit titles. I'm not a huge fan myself and hence; my xbox fell into disfavour and disuse.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sure, Microsoft Computer Graphics research center is full of geniuses, DirectX has improoved constantly over the years reaching a very good maturity status, I LIKE a lot using Visual Studio.NET even for my Playstation 2 development, I like Windows XP a lot (better than Linux any day)... I am not denying the good things they have done.

But admiring them for their intelligent Xbox "foot-in-the-door" strategy ?

When you are leveraging the Windows and Office Monopoly (and yes they are guilty of that... oh btw, just yesterday on the radio they were commenting how Microsoft had introduced MANUFACTURED evidence in the DOJ vs Microsoft trial to prove that unbundling some of their application from the OS would slow the system down incredibly , that they were force to bundle every possible thing and integrate it... they presented a doctored tape as undoctored, truthful evidence and made a very bad impression once they were caught) and all of those billions in the bank (which we can say have somewhat of an illegal source: would have they made that much money had not they been allowed for so many years to forcefully leverage their monopoly ?) how hard is to push that kind of strategy ?

Should I also note how they tried to fuck over their own partner nVIDIA once the losses started piling up ? That does not seem like part of their original plan.

If someone gave to two college graduates, one computer engineer and one business/marketing, $5-6 Billion to spend on designing, manufacturing and marketing a console to be released in the U.S., I think they would over the course of 3-4 years sell enough consoles to at least appear on the radar screen: I say that because I grant that in addition to the huge amount of money they poured they also had gems like Xbox LIVE, and exclusives like Halo, Halo 2, etc... Still, you do not know how smart those college graduates might be .

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Sure, Microsoft Computer Graphics research center is full of geniuses, DirectX has improoved constantly over the years reaching a very good maturity status, I LIKE a lot using Visual Studio.NET even for my Playstation 2 development, I like Windows XP a lot (better than Linux any day)... I am not denying the good things they have done.

But admiring them for their intelligent Xbox "foot-in-the-door" strategy ?

When you are leveraging the Windows and Office Monopoly (and yes they are guilty of that... oh btw, just yesterday on the radio they were commenting how Microsoft had introduced MANUFACTURED evidence in the DOJ vs Microsoft trial to prove that unbundling some of their application from the OS would slow the system down incredibly , that they were force to bundle every possible thing and integrate it... they presented a doctored tape as undoctored, truthful evidence and made a very bad impression once they were caught) and all of those billions in the bank (which we can say have somewhat of an illegal source: would have they made that much money had not they been allowed for so many years to forcefully leverage their monopoly ?) how hard is to push that kind of strategy ?

Should I also note how they tried to fuck over their own partner nVIDIA once the losses started piling up ? That does not seem like part of their original plan.

If someone gave to two college graduates, one computer engineer and one business/marketing, $5-6 Billion to spend on designign, manufacturing and marketing a console to be released in the U.S., I think they would over the course of 3-4 years sell enough consoles to at least appear on the radar screen: I say that because I grant that in addition to the huge amount of money they poured they also had gems like Xbox LIVE, and exclusives like Halo, Halo 2, etc... Still, you do not know how smart those college graduates might be .

truth but how many xbox lovers are going to see this as a valid discssion. Can someone put that image of "HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE MY XBOX" pic?

a) its all about mindshare
b) even though xbox 1 = negative profits see a)
c) even though xbox 1 is losing japan see a)
its all about fucking a..

xbox can never lose. Its all about winning.

 

[P90]

TGG you beat me to it.

 

[P90]

Xbox, without the help of Japan gaining more mindshare than Nintendo speaks for itself.

And its growing too.

"Mindshare" is not translating into market share or profits. That speaks louder. Sony knows that and has proven that.

Nintendo is in no place to brag home console-wise, but add GBA in you have a VERY different picture. Hence, the PSP.

One could also say that without the help of third parties Nintendo has more marketshare than Xbox...

 

[P90]

I strongly disagree.

Yes, Sony has been smart, very smart. uh wait that ain't Sony's line... I agree with Pana.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes, Sony has been smart, very smart. uh wait that ain't Sony's line... I agree with Pana.

I do not want my comments pushed to the extreeme: people can continue to think that Sony accidentally, by pure luck and with no merit whatsoever (be it clever marketing, third party friendlyness and support and push of new and advanced technology) won two consecutive generations in the home console market.

People can also think that decimal 1 plus decimal 1 is equal to decimal 3, but that is not my problem... I can tell them they are wrong once, it is up to them to realize the mistake (I am not trying to sound all mighty here, sorry if it appears this way).

Edit: I was implying that thinking Sony lead two generations thanks to pure luck is wrong.

 

[P90]

I do not want my comments pushed to the extreeme: people can continue to think that Sony accidentally, by pure luck and with no merit whatsoever (be it clever marketing, third party friendlyness and support and push of new and advanced technology) won two consecutive generations in the home console market.

People can also think that decimal 1 plus decimal 1 is equal to decimal 3, but that is not my problem... I can tell them they are wrong once, it is up to them to realize the mistake (I am not trying to sound all mighty here, sorry if it appears this way).

This is weird, but I think you are not giving Sony their due, Pana. eek! You are probably tired from getting hacked on here. Move over Kaching, Marco, SSX, sonycowboy. P90's gonna lay some Sony smackdown here! (with a dose of reality).

Seeing an opportunity is not "luck" in my book. The facts are Sony destroyed Sega and spanked Nintendo twice and makes the megabillion dollar MS look silly. The PS2 has no real competition. Kaz was right, the system war was over way long ago. I am of the thought that clever marketing, third party friendliness, having BC, DVD playback, etc. are MERITOUS.

Sony's vulnerability is first party development and the company's high debt to liquid assest ratio. That ratio may be a real Achille's heel down the road, especially with the increase in the lending rate. Also, Sony has not been doing the best job with product conceptualization of late: HDD implementation, PSX, PSP. (Outlining issues of these has been discussed in other threads).

I think Nintendo is learning that Sony's model may be one to emulate. Add Nintendo's 1st party into a mix of clever marketing, third party relations or IMO a better solution would be mergers, BC, a more "neutral" controller, more $19.99 games, etc. and you may have a potent competitor in the Revolution. The Xbox2 needs high profile Japanese house support (either though purchase or favorable licensing), decent first party games other than Halo, better controller, BC, among other features to be able to compete with the PS3.

 

[Leviathan]

No company is happy even if they see "mountains" of cash heading their way if at the same moment they are losing market and mindshare. PERIOD.

Or then people at Nintendo really are incompetent and deserve all the bad news/press they are getting.

Trends do not necessarily continue. This is common knowledge. Additionally, profits are extremely important in the survival of any business. If Nintendo was consistently making losses quarter after quarter, there would be a serious cause for concern. But as of now, there is NO cause for concern.

What I find rather odd is your certainty that Halo2 will dissapoint. Where do you base that? And you have to admit that no matter how much profit Nintendo makes they screwed it up this gen.

I'm not certain that Halo 2 will disappoint, but I predict that it will. It is based upon the fact that the title has a huge amount of hype surrounding it. That hype creates an impression in casual gamers minds that the game will be excellent. If it fails to live up to the hype, it will disappoint (even if it's a great game). The more hype a game gets, the more likely it will disappoint, and that may lead to a backlash. As for Nintendo, they have screwed up this generation (relative to Sony), no doubt, but to call the Gamecube a failure is ridiculous. With 15 million Gamecubes around, Nintendo has more than enough of an audience to sell their games to. Additionally, they are NOT suffering financially from the "screw up".

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Nintendo unlike Sega has been making a profit from each console generation, which in turn gives them a chance of a return to glory. I say this because casual gamers react to certain games and not exclusively to the logo on the console. They react to the exterior of the console aswell. With the right games , marketing, console design(case), and some good ole my console got this and that and yours don't the tide could change.

MS is going for a oppurtunity, they see this in getting to the market. This has (dis)advantages but that has already been discussed. All they need is a exclusive title that make purchasing the Xbox2 inevitable. One trip to the kiosk at your local Ebgames or Gamestop and your sold. The one snag I see for MS is PS2 gamer patience, the gamers who may wait to see what the PS3 has before they decide what they're going to buy. This happened during the 32/64bit era, alot of gamers were holding off on buying the PS1 in anticipation of Nintendos next console, the console dissapoints many gamers and PS1 sales start to climb.

Sony has the most to loose because they are the market leader, the most important thing Sony has to do is make sure that the software development environment isn't problematic. They're goal will have to be making sure the PS3 isn't the console that is receiving more ports than their competitors. That can only happen if publishers start to feel the financial crunch of next gen development. Money is the root of publisher console jumping. With steady support of the PS2 by third parties they just maybe able to hold those developers and software sales have to be a benefit.

Unlike some of us who choose to align themselves console and its manufacturer, the casual gamer go where games are that him or her enjoy. So who has THE launch title and titles to follow that can keep their interest will be the to come out on top.