Support NeoGAF

[Reizo Ryuu]

I didn't conclude anything you did

....is this your stick? Instead of discussing something you just go "no u?", even if it completely makes no sense? Well I guess it makes sense for an insane person

Nothing, you don't get the problem I'm talking about because you're 100% disconnected from it.

You are deciding for me I don't "get" whatever you're talking about, and your reason for me not getting it is because apparently I'm "100% disconnected from it"; that's a conclusion, one you made, it's right there, based on literally nothing because you still can't answer it without admitting it's an assumption.

 

[semiconscious]

thanks, rolling stone! because, lord knows, if we aren't being periodically reminded about all them non-inclusive morons out there, we might occasionally forget who it is that we're all so very superior to...

 

[Kimahri]

There's no joke. This is the author of the piece. Interpret it how you want depending on what the photo evokes for you.

Who stands behind the article matters.

I haven't said that the woman looks smart, dumb, beautiful or ugly.

Why post it? What does it matter what she looks like? Why do I need to see a picture of her?

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Sure, but literally none of that happened with the first game. They're straight up lying. The fucking game has a 92 user score on Metacritc and you'd be hard pressed to find ANYTHING, anywhere, saying something bad about this franchise before the leaks for part 2. Claiming that this happened with the first game and that the second is a directly result of that is pure bullshit. Neither of those things are true, and the only reason why they can get away with saying they are true is because the people who want it to be true will defend these lies and attack anyone saying otherwise. They're literally playing to the audience they gained AFTER the second game was released. They see the tone of social media and the current political landscape and are hamming it up for an audience that loves playing the victim and will eat this up.

What are the lies? They state the backlash that happened with in the game because of LGBTQ issue, Abby’s body type and the wider disconnect between some vocal gamers and accepting wider representation in their games. This isn’t an opinionated topic. A very vocal group of gamers do make a big brouhaha about the topics listed above. You opinion on why they may be doing that may differ but them doing it isn’t an argument. Your reasoning that they were outraged after the second game and it’s political messaging is ture, but the game didn’t make a political message, just characters existing. And that’s enough to cause a stir. Which is sad.

 

[Venom Snake]

It's not a great discovery that people are shitty, especially when you give them freedom of expression. So you have to be careful with topics that are sensitive, difficult or controversial. By establishing space for a given subject, one must be aware that once the course of events is set, it may be impossible to change it.

Unfortunately, everyone from left to right has chosen to capitalize on this space, push each other out of it with agendas, hate and accusations, with no chance of reaching any consensus in the future. In all this, the values that characterized each side were forgotten, twisted and bent into the worst of us.
Maybe i'm just naive, maybe the directions our civilization has taken preclude the existence of such different points of view and everything was doomed to failure from the very beginning.

But if so, it's time to stop being a little bitch and face reality. If you are entering this realm to continue to capitalize on it, you must be aware of the consequences, simple as that.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

....is this your stick? Instead of discussing something you just go "no u?", even if it completely makes no sense? Well I guess it makes sense for an insane person

You are deciding for me I don't "get" whatever you're talking about, and your reason for me not getting it is because apparently I'm "100% disconnected from it"; that's a conclusion, one you made, it's right there, based on literally nothing because you still can't answer it without admitting it's an assumption.

Now you're moving the goal posts.

Let's go back to you misreading, avoiding my point, ignoring when I bring up my point, bolding my point, and you quoting me removing all that out. This new segue is nothing more than a dodge. You were attacking me on something you misread for multiple posts, and claimed based on nothing I had a grudge against the actress despite me saying that's not the case multiple times.

Now you're backpedaling and changing the base of your smears that last several posts.

 

[iQuasarLV]

Mods, I again thank you for the ignore button. Some people just need to be ignored for sanity's sake.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Now you're moving the goal posts.

Nothing is being moved you muppet, it's the same point since it's literally your first reaction to me and thus shapes the entirety of how your respond; if you don't want it addressed or address it, then you should've never brought it up; answer it, or don't, I don't care, I don't have the energy to spare to deal with insane people filled with sad hatred.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Nothing is being moved you muppet, it's the same point since it's literally your first reaction to me and thus shapes the entirety of how your respond; if you don't want it addressed or address it, then you should've never brought it up; answer it, or don't, I don't care, I don't have the energy to spare to deal with insane people filled with sad hatred.

Yep, all the goal posts being moved, and there you go talking about hatred, based off nothing because it came from a conclusion you made up because you misread what I said from the first post. So you're whole side of the argument is imaginary but you refuse to admit you screwed up.

Funny how I kept bringing up the point you kept missing and you kept being dishonest saying I never explained, I bold the part of my statement which you missed containing the point, and you quote me purposefully omitting it. You are wrong, you have no standing in this argument. Check before leaping to attack next time.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

based off nothing

Oh the irony, damn that was a little bit too easy.

 

[RafterXL]

What are the lies? They state the backlash that happened with in the game because of LGBTQ issue, Abby’s body type and the wider disconnect between some vocal gamers and accepting wider representation in their games. This isn’t an opinionated topic. A very vocal group of gamers do make a big brouhaha about the topics listed above. You opinion on why they may be doing that may differ but them doing it isn’t an argument. Your reasoning that they were outraged after the second game and it’s political messaging is ture, but the game didn’t make a political message, just characters existing. And that’s enough to cause a stir. Which is sad.

Are you being intentionally dense? Abby isn't in the first game. What does she have to do with statements about the first game? Ellie, however, was a KNOWN lesbian in the first game and no one cared!

TLoU released on two separate consoles and no one said shit about any of this. There was no backlash against the first game. There was no backlash against Ellie being a lesbian. This is made up bullshit. Everything that happened, happened AFTER the leak for the second game.

Plain and simple, there was no controversy with the first game and, further, you can't write a sequel based on a backlash that didn't even happen until the sequel was already finished. Unless Druckman and company have a time machine they are straight up lying to garner sympathy.

 

[Majormaxxx]

It's not a great discovery that people are shitty, especially when you give them freedom of expression. So you have to be careful with topics that are sensitive, difficult or controversial. By establishing space for a given subject, one must be aware that once the course of events is set, it may be impossible to change it.

Unfortunately, everyone from left to right has chosen to capitalize on this space, push each other out of it with agendas, hate and accusations, with no chance of reaching any consensus in the future. In all this, the values that characterized each side were forgotten, twisted and bent into the worst of us.
Maybe i'm just naive, maybe the directions our civilization has taken preclude the existence of such different points of view and everything was doomed to failure from the very beginning.

But if so, it's time to stop being a little bitch and face reality. If you are entering this realm to continue to capitalize on it, you must be aware of the consequences, simple as that.

The left - right segregation is done on purpose.

Both sides know that emphasizing contentious topics will rally their voters up.

 

[Brock2621]

Not this again…… smh

 

[Venom Snake]

The left - right segregation is done on purpose.

Both sides know that emphasizing contentious topics will rally their voters up.

And both sides of "voters" are driven either by emotion and lack of reason, or reason guided by greed. Those with more rational views are immediately excluded.

 

[Doom85]

That's not what I did at all, but you're just proving you don't get the actual problem, and are indirectly proving my point.

I’m pretty sure I get that you thought the protagonist was white, and then rather just simply take a L, you chose to be all, “ugh, her skin tone threw me off, clearly the developers are racist!” without doing further research and even checking what the voice actress herself looked like.

Seriously, please tell me how you walking up to the actress and telling her the character shouldn’t have her own skin tone because “it’s part of the problem” wouldn’t make YOU look like a total jerk.

Also, holy SHIT, three pages of talking to Ryuu and you somehow have not elaborated further what this “problem“ is, instead like a broken record you just keep going:

Almost because you grabbed at some straws in a desperate attempt to divert attention from you making a mistake and are trying to convince us you’re holding something significant as opposed to a bunch of random fucking straws.

I‘m not going to respond further to you because I know now you will put way more focus on “checking who the voice actress was wasn’t the point” instead of just simply admitting you didn’t check and moving on.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Are you being intentionally dense? Abby isn't in the first game. What does she have to do with statements about the first game? Ellie, however, was a KNOWN lesbian in the first game and no one cared!

TLoU released on two separate consoles and no one said shit about any of this. There was no backlash against the first game. There was no backlash against Ellie being a lesbian. This is made up bullshit. Everything that happened, happened AFTER the leak for the second game.

Plain and simple, there was no controversy with the first game and, further, you can't write a sequel based on a backlash that didn't even happen until the sequel was already finished. Unless Druckman and company have a time machine they are straight up lying to garner sympathy.

You ignored the backlash around Abby and Lev to try and make a point.

There being no controversy around the first game doesn’t negate that which existed around the second game…so that’s what you need to be addressing.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I’m pretty sure I get that you thought the protagonist was white, and then rather just simply take a L, you chose to be all, “ugh, her skin tone threw me off, clearly the developers are racist!”

Not even close, but you WANT to believe that so what can I do.

Apparently that whole thing about having an issue with their "implementation" of their diversity goal (Ironically using stereotypical "safe" stereotypes in it place) and how that backfires and doesn't actually address the issue they think it does, completely flew over your head.

But if you think this implementation is "good" that's your opinion and that's fine.

 

[Operations66]

Oh, well. People hate woke $#!+. Keep raging at the fans and going broker. Very entertaining to watch.

 

[Doom85]

Not even close, but you WANT to believe that so what can I do.

Apparently that whole thing about having an issue with their "implementation" of their diversity goal (Ironically using stereotypical "safe" stereotypes in it place) and how that backfires and doesn't actually address the issue they think it does, completely flew over your head.

But if you think this implementation is "good" that's your opinion and that's fine.

I believe they hired an actress and made the character look like her as is common in this industry (this dates back to James Sunderland from Silent Hill 2 looking like his VA, probably even further back), and you are throwing all the assumptions on them to fit your conspiracy theory.

But all means, continue indirectly shaming the woman for how she looks, and that the character can’t look like her due to this theory you have. You’re a real fucking hero.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I believe they hired an actress and made the character look like her as is common in this industry

Which wasn't the point, you completely ignored my post, and pretended I said something completely different so you can say this.

But all means, continue indirectly shaming the woman

Now I'm accused of "shaming" "the" women?

interesting. No basis either.

 

[Woggleman]

I am by no means some super woke person but that was one of the most embarrassing chapters in gaming. People were actually threatening Laura Bailey's kids. I am not talking about people who didn't care for the game and said so in an intelligent way but the ones who acted almost as bad as Kathy bates in Misery.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I’ll never understand this unhealthy obsession with inclusivity, diversity and representation in entertainment and the games industry. To me, it’s really weird and doesn’t seem genuine.

 

[Doom85]

Which wasn't the point, you completely ignored my post, and pretended I said something completely different so you can say this.



Now I'm accused of "shaming" "the" women?

interesting. No basis either.

And there he goes, like a moth to the flame. I flat out said Eddie would be all, ”the actress isn’t the point, bro!” Oh man, hilarious.

Oooohhhh, so you’re allowed to make all the assumptions about the people who cast her and the people who designed her character, but me accusing you of doing something you are FLAT OUT DOING is going too far.

Bruh, just:

 

[semiconscious]

I’ll never understand this unhealthy obsession with inclusivity, diversity and representation in entertainment and the games industry. To me, it’s really weird and doesn’t seem genuine.

it isn't genuine. back in the day, we called it tokenism. but it is marketable. at least for now...

 

[Woggleman]

The whole gamergate thing could have been resolved if people just respectfully disagreed with Anita Sarkesian and those like her and moved on. They could have stood their ground and still come out looking good but instead it was doxxing and rape threats and death threats. Even the most reasonable woman is going to have a visceral reaction to stuff like that.

 

[Gamerfan81]

Once upon a time in the gaming industry, people talked about games and things like graphics, gameplay, music, story, what platforms it will be on and a little bit of console warring thrown in for good measure.

Don't get me wrong those stuff are still talked about, but since gaming is more mainstream and has a bigger audience now (I remember reading a year or 2 back that revenues in the game industry surpassed movies, music, and sports combined!) the usual scumbags, sycophants, and rabble rousers from other segments of societies have made their way into the gaming world.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I’ll never understand this unhealthy obsession with inclusivity, diversity and representation in entertainment and the games industry. To me, it’s really weird and doesn’t seem genuine.

A whole generation of people who grew up with black and white views of the world and no identity of their own, amongst the sea of people and bubbles of social medias.

Now they obsess with the idea of being different and unique, of being the good guys and finding evil anywhere they can in order to satisfy their own sense of self-righteousness and ego.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

And there he goes, like a moth to the flame. I flat out said Eddie would be all, ”the actress isn’t the point, bro!” Oh man, hilarious.

Which I already said from the start, you just didn't read the thread.

Oooohhhh, so you’re allowed to make all the assumptions about the people who cast her

This didn't happen either, believe what you want but it's not what actually happened.

 

[Shadowstar39]

It was decent in the late 80s early 90s. Especially during the whole Seattle sound “grunge” era.

Yeah, last time i remember it being good. My teenage years the early 90s.

 

[Doom85]

Which I already said from the start, you just didn't read the thread.



This didn't happen either, believe what you want but it's not what actually happened.

You didn’t say from the start, you made it abundantly clear you didn’t even check what the actress looked like initially.

Okay, if you’re just going to fucking lie,

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

You didn’t say from the start, you made it abundantly clear you didn’t even check what the actress looked like initially.

So you're just going to intentionally pretend that there wasn't something else in that post, so YOU can be dishonest, gotcha.

 

[Doom85]

So you're just going to intentionally pretend that there wasn't something else in that post, so YOU can be dishonest, gotcha.

You’re just desperate for attention. Explains why you make so many threads. But by all means, continue making accusations and assumptions towards these developers you don’t even know (and you clearly knew jack shit, since you didn’t even know barely anything about the game discussion, but you couldn’t resist putting your two cents in) without thinking of how it makes you look, and when people DARE to argue back, refuse to reinforce your assumption with a basic bitch response of “you wouldn’t get it!” I’m sure you’ll make tons of people see your point if you refuse to explain shit like a five year old, as opposed to making people think you’re even more clueless than you already seem.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

so i am going to release some stress with my God Hand

one thing before leaving:

"deologies are substitutes for true knowledge, and the mind is made bloody by them." - Harlan Ellison

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

You’re just desperate for attention. Explains why you make so many threads.

This is an interesting away fo doubling down on being incorect and skipping the rest of the post you keep referencing, intentionally, that literally explains the point and what the issue is.

How about not being 100% misleading by acting like there wasn't an edit to that very post you reference, that you CLEARLY saw, that explained what my issue with the "implementation" was for this diversity goal. If you have to pretend you DIDN'T see that edit to have a fake argument, it says more about you then me.

But by all means, continue making accusations and assumptions towards these developers you don’t even know

Which didn't happen, however you are ironically now doing the very thing you are falsely accusing me of. regarding me.

 

[Doom85]

This is an interesting away fo doubling down on being incorect and skipping the rest of the post you keep referencing, intentionally, that literally explains the point and what the issue is.

I'm also not even top 3. Maybe you should try contributing sometime instead of being 100% misleading by acting like there wasn't an edit to that very post you reference that you CLEARLY saw, that explained what my issue with the "implementation" was for this diversity goal. If you have to pretend you DIDN'T see that edit to have a fake argument, it says more about you then me.



Which didn't happen, however you are ironically now doing the very thing you are falsely accusing me of. regarding me.

Bruh, bruh, BRUH. LEARN TO FUCKING READ. I addressed that shit earlier, and you fucking know it. I mentioned the skin tone element multiple times, multiple fucking times, so don’t be acting all cute and pretend you don’t remember that shit. You’re a fucking pathological liar who couldn’t admit he fucked up in doing even the most basic research into a game before opening their mouth. ”Frey is white, right?”, for fucks sake, man, tell me you knew jack and shit about Forspoken a day ago without telling me you knew jack and shit about Forspoken a day ago.

Also learn what “reinforcing your argument” means. You threw out some weak accusation, you got called out on it, and you failed to back it up at all, instead running off to your mom and dad screaming, “you wouldn’t get it!”

Welcome to the ignore list. I’ve got better things to do than engage with a fucking basic liar.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Bruh, bruh, BRUH. LEARN TO FUCKING READ. I addressed that shit earlier, and you fucking know it. I mentioned the skin tone element multiple times, multiple fucking times,

You're literally telling me you didn't address it by doubling down on the same misunderstanding you came to because you missed the point, then brought up the actress when the actress was not the issue.

If you don't want to actually address the point then what is the point of making stuff up? No need to go in circles. I mean you keep talking about "research" when the post you keep referencing literally has a second part you are intentionally skipping that literally says,

they sure like to cement stereotypes and don't want natural hair and limit how the dark the skin is. Unless they're also implemented stereotypically. Seems to be just checklist lip service and they don't really care at all.

For some reason you are desperately trying to imagine this part isn't there, and that the only part of the post is that one line above this, which you create and based your entire flawed argument on.

The issue I have is the "implementation" that's it. Everything else you said before has no relevance to the point. You are the only one being dishonest, but if you don't want to address why you kept omitting this part of the post out, intentionally, each and every time and put me on ignore, fine, but that doesn't change the fact you avoided this very quote and took it out.

 

[Neolombax]

I just hated TLOU2 because they did Joel dirty, thats all. Nothing to do with Ellie being a lesbian. Actually, kinda forgot that fact. She was just another protagonist honestly, her preferences dont really matter nor do they enrich the story.

Also pretty sure this article was just to hype people up for the show or boost sales on the games. I mean people can be dicks online, it has been for a while now and its not just from people who play video games. Sure the message still stands, dont be a cunt online, or anywhere really. But thats not news.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is a Sony planted story, not a journalist story. This is a style of marketing. Similar articles came out timed around Ghostbusters. You don't get this out with people from the show unless it's part of the plan.

And many that hate on TLOU2 also had a plan to destroy it. So two can play that game. And I'm glad Sony is joining in to protect their brand from idiots.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Thank you for this insightful article, Ms. Favis.

Apparently no stranger to getting hit in the face with golf clubs.

Zing/fore

 

[Punished Miku]

The whole gamergate thing could have been resolved if people just respectfully disagreed with Anita Sarkesian and those like her and moved on. They could have stood their ground and still come out looking good but instead it was doxxing and rape threats and death threats. Even the most reasonable woman is going to have a visceral reaction to stuff like that.

Bullshit. People called it out respectfully. The pushback occurred in many ways that weren't harassment. The legitimate critique of psycho ideology was the first and only true victory against it at that point. Without that we'd be in hell right now.

 

[Fess]

It’s not about the diversity, it’s about shoving stuff down people’s throat they’re not all that interested in, it never works, would’ve been the same reactions if they tried to push for religion or veganism or whatever else.

As an experiment, try forcing your kids to eat up a plate of broccoli every day for a month and observe the reaction.

 

[anothertech]

I didn't realize this was released right after episode 3 of the last of us. Figures.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

TLOU is masterclass writing. As controversial of a story as TLOU 2 was, it worked, it was an emotional rollercoaster. This would of been probably accepted by most players if it wasnt for Druckman and his new woke views etc men=bad. We already knew Ellie was a lesbian from the first game so no shock there, Lev actually being Lily...it was mentioned once and done. Abby's physique was the main talking point and donno why they went that far with it, because she could of just been a violent girl looking for revenge with a more feminine body, no need for roids to show off you are muscular and fit. If you remember her flashback with her dad, she actually looked normal.If you separate the creator from the game, it's a crazy ass adventure and did everything better than the first, a proper sequel.