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[Joel Was Right]

First, it was the Red Wedding episode in GoT; it was at that point, the most iconic moment in television for me, and I kept searching for another dopamine hit in movies and film. GoT was never able to replicate that moment.

Then, the Last of Us Part 2 story.

It's not a perfect game. There are moments that are forgettable, even poor. But the story...the way the writers manipulate you into feeling visceral hate, and then watching Ellie become the villain, while you wrestle with your own feelings about Abby; how Ellie has to with her own guilt of shunning Joel. It goes beyond the remit of video games, and it's no surprise that I don't think we've had anything come close to it in terms of raw emotional impact.

 

[Gaiff]

Read books or watch movies then. Plenty of them are much better written.

 

[The Cockatrice]

It's a depressive story so in that regard yes, we haven't really played anything on that level, but better or different stories? There have been quite a lot.

 

[Neff]

There are moments that are forgettable, even poor. But the story...

the fuck

 

[Topher]

Controversial story to say the least. Personally I loved it. I understand why a lot of folks despise it though. It was a dramatic shift from the original game. The intertwined narrative between Abby and Ellie, I thought, was brilliant, but others simply hated it.

Probably no single game has such a divisive reaction from gamers than TLOU part 2. I've learned to not argue over it though. People are not going to agree on this game and that's fine.

 

[rofif]

yeah that game was a rollercoaster.
Fake leaks
Hype down
Playing and hating it because of prejudice
Then around halfway part of the game loving it
Ending was so damn good I actually cried.

Amazing game. Clearly shows which people are unforgiving asshole without a hint of empathy

 

[LectureMaster]

The intertwined narrative between Abby and Ellie, I thought, was brilliant, but others simply hated it.

I enjoyed the narrative structure, but at the end Ellie simply became so unlikable to me, Abby's line was alright.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Controversial story to say the least. Personally I loved it. I understand why a lot of folks despise it though. It was a dramatic shift from the original game. The intertwined narrative between Abby and Ellie, I thought, was brilliant, but others simply hated it.

Probably no single game has such a divisive reaction from gamers than TLOU part 2. I've learned to not argue over it though. People are not going to agree on this game and that's fine.

I hated it because I was being forced to see Abby as human...forced to acknowledge that Ellie was the villain, was wrong on how she treated Joel. In hindsight, it was masterful, but in that moment, I absolutely hated how I wasn't able to make my own assumptions, but instead see the nuances. It's a weird thing to even articulate.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Seen all the cutscenes. and didn't like it nor thought it was good. First Last of Us was much better as well as a good amount of other games that has a much better and more interesting game story and characters.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

The stealth combat in this game is still unmatched, imo. Realistic violence and the animations, enemy chatter, and visual feedback sell the brutality. And the enemy AI, encounter design, and options at your disposal are second-to-none.

 

[Topher]

I don't hate it, but at the end Ellie simply became so unlikable to me, Abby's line was alright.

Think Ellie was a problem for a lot of folks. I really didn't have a problem with Ellie. Or Abby for that matter. It was a tale of revenge where neither was explicitly the "bad guy". Have to admit, I was bummed at first having to play as Abby, but I came around fairly quickly to her story.

 

[cormack12]

Zero Dawn has a better story tbh

 

[pqueue]

hyperbole, much?

 

[Danjin44]

No I personally didn't liked, in fact all the character felt insufferable and I didn't care if they live or die.

Part 2 was more violent and and there are more death but none of them felt as impactful as the first game, the game was more interest to get shock out of people rather than actual care about story and characters.

 

[Topher]

Zero Dawn has a better story tbh

Really? I enjoyed the game, but thought the story was forgettable.

 

[Certinty]

I mean, each to their own but I thought the story was horrible, one of the worst i’ve come across in a huge AAA game.

Nothing to do with how they handled Joel either, just Abbi was so unlikeable and literally all of the new characters underdeveloped.

But gameplay, level design and visually wise it was unreal, i’ll give you that.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Zero Dawn has a better story tbh

I think Zero Dawn has a better (i.e. interesting) premise, but not a better story.

 

[bender]

The story is my biggest problem with TLOU2 as it is chock-full of poorly conceived or out of character motivations, laughable decisions, and weak parallels to the original.

 

[Gonzito]

What? lol someone forgot to take his medicine today

 

[Senua]

I couldn't finish the game, and I loved the original. It went on and on playing as Abby who I didn't give a single fuck about.

 

[Joel Was Right]

No I personally didn't liked, in fact all the character felt insufferable and I didn't care if they live or die.

Part 2 was more violent and and there are more death but none of them felt as impactful as the first game, the game was more interest to get chock out people rather I actual care about story and characters.

I actually enjoyed playing Part 1 more. But the highlight of that story are the deaths at the end, and their impact on Joel and Ellie's relationship. I'm not sure how it's possible to divorce the deaths from the stories.

The story is my biggest problem with TLOU2 as it is chock-full of poorly conceived or out of character motivations, laughable decisions, and weak parallels to the original.

Do you mind expanding on this?

 

[adamsapple]

Username checks out.

 

[Schmendrick]

The writing in that game was so bad, it gave indian soap opera writers cancer.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Please experience more fiction. Please, please, please.

 

[Danjin44]

I actually enjoyed playing Part 1 more. But the highlight of that story are the deaths at the end, and their impact on Joel and Ellie's relationship. I'm not sure how it's possible to divorce the deaths from the stories.

First game was more focus and story was MUCH better told, they were less death in Part 1 but each death was impactful while Part 2 majority of characters die like flies.

When it comes romantic relationship Elie and Riley in Left Behind DLC had waaaaaay more chemistry compare to the new girl in Part 2.

 

[Hrk69]

That has to be hyperbole

 

[Joel Was Right]

Please experience more fiction. Please, please, please.

Happy to get recommendations

 

[cormack12]

Really? I enjoyed the game, but thought the story was forgettable.

Admittedly to get the most from Zero Dawn you do have to read the data points and watch the holograms but yeah I think it's a really good story.

TLoU II is like when they threw filters on the later Harry Potter movies and made it 'dark'. It's a really well made technical game but the execution is all over the place. The premise is really simple and too much effort is put into

1. Convincing everyone with smoke and mirrors that the main arc is deeper than it is.
2. The over obvious attempts at trying to 'correct' your first impression of loathing Abbie.

If we take two example dual protagonists of cinema in The Prestige and Heat. These both have different aims. The Prestige shows driven men but it's also clear who the audience roots for. Heat is more ambiguous and this is what I think ND were going for but they ended up making both protagonists unlikeable, so it failed.

Now, you can choose to let that get in the way of the gameplay or not. I personally don't. It's a well made game with generally good gameplay but most of the story and side characters are largely forgettable (imo)

 

[squidilix]

Read books or watch movies then. Plenty of them are much better written.

So you saying TLOUp2 have a better written than the majority of video game. Good

 

[EruditeHobo]

Happy to get recommendations

Let me introduce you to a master storyteller by the name of Zack Snyder...

Just kidding.

I think what you're saying in general is that TLOU2 is super impactful, and it is! Amazing game. Easily, easily one of the best narrative/"cinematic" games over the past 10 years.

 

[Woggleman]

One of my favorite if not my favorite of the 2020s so far.

 

[saintjules]

the fuck

That's like saying they don't like a game for x y z but then will get it on sale for $20. Why?

 

[bender]

I actually enjoyed playing Part 1 more. But the highlight of that story are the deaths at the end, and their impact on Joel and Ellie's relationship. I'm not sure how it's possible to divorce the deaths from the stories.


Do you mind expanding on this?

Just from the first few hours:

-Taking an almost due pregnant woman on a cross country revenge mission is stupid. Doubly so considering she is a trained medical person. They later repeat this at the beginning of Abby's story as she goes on a patrol mission.
-Joel putting himself in position to be murdered was out of character.
-Ellie and Dina going on a cross country revenge mission followed by Jesse going on the same cross country revenge mission by himself followed by Tommy going on the same cross country revenge mission by himself. Not only do they miraculously all make it to their destinations unscathed (isn't this world dangerous?), but they all somehow find each other.

It's going to be difficult to write a new cast of characters and immediately have them kill off a beloved character and have the audience feel any empathy for them. I know I felt no empathy and the weak parallels of Abby/Lev and Joel/Ellie just didn't work because outside of Abby, they do very little to establish or show character growth.

From the section that establishes the rift between Joel and Ellie: Ellie distrusts the lie that Joel told her to close out TLOU (which isn't how I read that scene, but whatever) so she goes back to Salt Lake City alone. Joel takes the same trip, again alone. Somehow they miraculously hookup. Again, is this zombie infected world even dangerous anymore?

Later on in the game Tommy sends Ellie to track down Abby again on a hunch which seemed unbelievable as I don't think Tommy would have asked for this nor do I think Ellie would have gone. And as much as I disliked the ludonarrative dissonance discourse we had a few year back, the climax of the game doesn't work in that it's hard to connect with Ellie finally getting that revenge is wrong when she's responsible for a massive trail of corpses in her wake.

All the sequel did was turn Tommy into an idiot and Abby into something wholly unlikeable. You could argue that was the goal for Abby and if so, well done, but it also leaves me disinterested in what they do with the world/characters next.

​

 

[Gaiff]

So you saying TLOUp2 have a better written than the majority of video game. Good

That's an extremely low bar and since that's what the game prides itself on, it should be better written than most games.

 

[Danjin44]

-Taking an almost due pregnant woman on a cross country revenge mission is stupid.

Yeah who the fuck let woman that far in pregnancy outside thats full of infected, its beyond stupid but she is there to get killed by Ellie so she fill like "monster".

 

[MetalFreak]

I just replayed it and in terms of gameplay is fucking tense and brutal!!
Story wise this game still pisses me off especially all the manipulation that goes on to make Abby likeable…
Two things I learned on apocalyptic times:
1. Very pregnant women can go on raids, shoot zombies, climb crates and ropes because, you know, “sTronG WomAn”.
2. It seems that women develop weird cases of flat chestness…

 

[existensmaximum]

It's a unique game for sure. People can hate it all they want, to me it's set the bar insanely high and no other games have come close to it ever since when it comes to characters, storytelling and conveying emotions.

 

[squidilix]

Not only do they miraculously all make it to their destinations unscathed (isn't this world dangerous?), but they all somehow find each other.

Yeah, like TLOUp1 so... with an 50y old man and a teenager...

 

[bender]

Yeah, like TLOUp1 so... with an 50y old man and a teenager...

While it's true the some suspension of disbelief is necessary for storytelling, the circumstances of TLOU and the sequel are different for obvious reasons, and it is a well that the sequel goes back to over and over and over again which in turn, breaks that suspension.

 

[Hugare]

Last game I enjoyed that much since then was BG 3

I have my problems with the game, but it was one of those "once in a generation" games. The scope, the story ambitions, the atention to detail, the polish ...

Pacing isnt great, but everything else was stellar. First game still resonates with me way more tho. Way more replayable and with a better, more simple story.

 

[semiconscious]

the way the writers manipulate you...

about that:

my emotional buttons were being so constantly, relentlessly stomped on by this game from the get-go that, by the time 'the moment' arrived? i already thoroughly despised it. unlike the last of us, i think that the last of us 2 is a cruel, blood-thirsty game that confuses 'mature story-telling' with relentless viciousness & graphic violence. remarkably well-made, excellent gameplay, but i'll never play it a second time...

 

[EruditeHobo]

Yeah, like TLOUp1 so... with an 50y old man and a teenager...

It's just really selective. These arguments always are. Unconvincing.

But at the same time, if someone doesn't feel it and isn't into it, there's no point in trying to force them. TLOU2 is brilliant, and all stories have contrivances... but if it doesn't land with you (the royal you), you just won't care!

 

[Essery81]

I say awesome gameplay and a forgettable story.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Just from the first few hours:

-Taking an almost due pregnant woman on a cross country revenge mission is stupid. Doubly so considering she is a trained medical person. They later repeat this at the beginning of Abby's story as she goes on a patrol mission.
-Joel putting himself in position to be murdered was out of character.
-Ellie and Dina going on a cross country revenge mission followed by Jesse going on the same cross country revenge mission by himself followed by Tommy going on the same cross country revenge mission by himself. Not only do they miraculously all make it to their destinations unscathed (isn't this world dangerous?), but they all somehow find each other.

It's going to be difficult to write a new cast of characters and immediately have them kill off a beloved character and have the audience feel any empathy for them. I know I felt no empathy and the weak parallels of Abby/Lev and Joel/Ellie just didn't work because outside of Abby, they do very little to establish or show character growth.

From the section that establishes the rift between Joel and Ellie: Ellie distrusts the lie that Joel told her to close out TLOU (which isn't how I read that scene, but whatever) so she goes back to Salt Lake City alone. Joel takes the same trip, again alone. Somehow they miraculously hookup. Again, is this zombie infected world even dangerous anymore?

Later on in the game Tommy sends Ellie to track down Abby again on a hunch which seemed unbelievable as I don't think Tommy would have asked for this nor do I think Ellie would have gone. And as much as I disliked the ludonarrative dissonance discourse we had a few year back, the climax of the game doesn't work in that it's hard to connect with Ellie finally getting that revenge is wrong when she's responsible for a massive trail of corpses in her wake.

All the sequel did was turn Tommy into an idiot and Abby into something wholly unlikeable. You could argue that was the goal for Abby and if so, well done, but it also leaves me disinterested in what they do with the world/characters next.

The world's obviously not that dangerous anymore when Ellie can make it back home with a broken arm, Tommy with a headshot and Dina with a possible concussion while the city was about to get invaded and torched by Scars.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Bartski]

The story isn't perfect, Seraphites were underdeveloped and the return to Aquarium felt needlessly on the nose but I wouldn't change anything about the structure. But I played it relatively unspoiled at launch and, as a complete package, it shook me like very few other games did, while gaming since the 80s. Overall I think it's the best action-adventure ever made, as a complete package it also ruined games for me becoming the technical benchmark for the genre.

 

[proandrad]

Zero Dawn has a better story tbh

The way people feel about Abby is what I feel about Aloy. An unlikable bitch, who is a complete cunt to everyone who tries to her friend, but Aloy is pretty so she gets away with it. They should have redone Abby's character model to make her look more feminine with the PS5 remaster and it would have reduced a ton of the hate the game gets. Story and Characters aside the gameplay and level design in Part 2 is S-tier.

 

[semiconscious]

First game was more focus and story was MUCH better told, they were less death in Part 1 but each death was impactful while Part 2 majority of characters die like flies.

When it comes romantic relationship Elie and Riley in Left Behind DLC had waaaaaay more chemistry compare to the new girl in Part 2.

this'd never even occurred to me. incredible, but true...

 

[Danjin44]

this'd never even occurred to me. incredible, but true...

Good chemistry is what sells the good romance and Part 2 had none but not only that it had stupid love triangle which goes no where because the guy dies in early game.

Same fucking shit with Abby, also has cringy love triangle which also goes no where because the pregnant lady dies.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Stop playing games then