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[Oozer3993]

It was a good sequel to the Richard Donner movies. But it cost a fortune to make. Why? I have no fucking idea. The special effects were impressive, but outside of the plane sequence and the end, there weren't really any major setpieces. The only thing I could think of was the salaries for the production crew and cast. Oh yeah, Kate Bosworth is no Margot Kidd. Got Bosworth was horrible as Lois Lane.

Most people, when talking about the cost of SR, site a figure that includes the money spent on the aborted Superman Lives and Superman Reborn projects including the multimillions WB was forced to pay both Cage and Burton when those didn't get off the ground. That significantly inflates the price of the movie.

I think this is a huge mistake.
Bryan Singer was merely giving superman a foundation again. With that out of the way and a brand new script I think he could make something truly amazing with the next movie. I hope so badly they keep him.

These are my thoughts exactly. SR was gorgeous from a visual standpoint and well casted (screw you all, Kate Bosworth was great). Just mandate a real villian not named Zod, more action, and Luthor as nothing more than a small bit player if even in the movie at all and you got a great flick on your hands.

You people are all dancing around the most important part of a reboot.


John Williams.

He's already met with people at WB about doing the music for the next Superman film.

I've read people wanting to see Doomsday, or Braniac or other villains be the focus of future movies and I just don't believe that to be a recipe for success. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong in delivering a character - who by all means is immortal - into situations where he would inevitably clean up, if it weren't for his own Achilles heel being a piece of green meteorite. Essentially, you will get a repetitiveness - a predictability - to the character whose own persona really isn't of anything to gain interest to the casual audience, especially in comparison to modern day success' persona's such as Bruce Wayne/Batman. At least with him you have sophistication in his anti-hero demeanour. Whereas with Clark, we have a lovable goof whose a loved sick puppy over a woman who barely is interested in anything but his own, lovable do-gooder perfect alter ego - whose main weapon, is, well, you cant hurt him. I just don't see the basis of a story here. How do you make a franchise about Superman without making it predictable? Is that even possible?

Hence the reason they introduced the kid. I know the decision is near universally hated on GAF, but I think it was brilliant. In SR they showed Kal-El feeling totally alone. He even leaves for 5 years to see if anyone else survived, hoping to find some one, anyone else like him. There's no one. Just when he thinks he will always be the Last Son of Krypton he discovers his own son, the only other person in the universe with Kryptonian heritage. Family members have always been a tried and true weakness in fiction and now Superman finally has one.

Have deranged-Animated-Series-supercomputer Braniac as the villian trying to wipe out the Earth or at least its Krytonian residents, including the newly discovered one whom Kal-El would presumably do anything to protect. Braniac inevitably gets defeated, but maybe the kid dies or is seriously hurt, and a scene after the credits shows Luthor using technology and parts from Braniac to make a prototype of Metallo. Bam, there's your next movie.

Superman in general (especially his origin though) is so boring, played out and predictable. What they need to do is adapt Red Son as the next Superman movie and throw people for a loop. Commie Superman would flip people out. It'd be great just for the right wing/middle america meltdowns.

I would LOVE that, but it probably has, at best, a 0.1% chance of actually happening

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Superman in general (especially his origin though) is so boring, played out and predictable. What they need to do is adapt Red Son as the next Superman movie and throw people for a loop. Commie Superman would flip people out. It'd be great just for the right wing/middle america meltdowns.

 

[Chamber]

Red Son is a DC Universe story with Superman as the main figure. They'd have to change a lot to make it work.

 

[Technosteve]

I think justice league movie would be better then just a superman movie. Superman is pretty much a two dimensional character they need to give him an edge ala batman and ironman.

 

[Raistlin]

Anyone realised the religious connotations of the Superman character? What I was most surprised by is WB/Singer choosing to continue that in SR

This is why the Wachowki's are being looked at. Neo = Superman = Jesus.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I think that they should go open with the religious connotations; perhaps a small cult worshiping Superman as a god or deity?

 

[jey_16]

they should give Singer another chance....Returns was not that bad and with a proper villain, the sequel could be really good

i really dont need to see Superman's origin story again.....its not even that interesting

 

[gdt]

I've never read Red Sun (or any Superman stuff, I'm a very casual comic reader), but it sounds fucking awesome.

 

[Freshmaker]

Superman's son.

Only if Darkseid kidnaps him, accelerates his growth, brainwashes him, and involves a planet exploding multiple times.

 

[Stoney Mason]

i really dont need to see Superman's origin story again.....its not even that interesting

If by "reboot" they mean tell his origin story again I have zero interest. In fact in general I have low interest in seeing any more rebooted origin stories for quite awhile. I'm sick of that gimmick.

 

[slade]

Superman isn't a boring character. It's just that the scope of his powers involves getting into conflicts on a much larger scale then you see in regular Superhero movies. You're going to need at least some involvement from the Lanterns, the New Gods, and Darkseid. There's the making of a great science fiction film there.... if it's handled right.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Superman isn't a boring character. It's just that the scope of his powers involves getting into conflicts on a much larger scale then you see in regular Superhero movies. You're going to need at least some involvement from the Lanterns, the New Gods, and Darkseid. There's the making of a great science fiction film there.... if it's handled right.

The problem is none of these characters have ever been introduced before in the movies. It's going to be a big adjustment to get the audience to accept that suddenly there are other planets, galaxies, and dimensions where these super villains exist.

That's arguably the only reason to do a reboot. To break continuity with the Donner universe of Superman which is what most casual movie goers think of when they think of Superman.

 

[bluescreenoflife]

Superboy Prime should be the villain. To simplify things just make him a clone.

I just started watching Chuck...

 

[DarkJediKnight]

 

[SimleuqiR]

I just started watching Chuck...

You in for a treat.

And Sarah can play Kara....

 

[Oozer3993]

You in for a treat.

And Sarah can play Kara....

OMG yes. I smell a

Spoiler

n R-rated

spinoff.

P.S. Chuck is awesome.

 

[Freshmaker]

The problem is none of these characters have ever been introduced before in the movies. It's going to be a big adjustment to get the audience to accept that suddenly there are other planets, galaxies, and dimensions where these super villains exist.

Superman's already from another planet. That implies that there are probably other advanced civilizations and powerful aliens lurking out there.

If the moviegoers were supposed to accept a clone of Superman spawned by nuclear explosions who spontaneously forms full grown with spandex...

 

[Slayven]

I just started watching Chuck...

Yeah but can he do the awesome kind of craziness that is superboy prime?

 

[Ripclawe]

Originally Posted by Jibril:
Hotdamn that's an awesome quote. Also,Laurance Fishburne for Darkseid.

It's got to be Michael Ironside:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecSMJMRAWA

PFFFT!!!!

 

[ultim8p00]

Ever since I saw Neo fly like Superman. I've been waiting for this.

 

[jsnepo]

WTF It looked beautiful. One of the few great things about that movie.

It is beautiful but boring for me.

 

[Talon]

As a non-comic book reader, I just have to say I never found Superman to be a super-interesting character. Batman has the whole psychopath/mere mortal hero going on. Spider-man has the wittiness and charm of not taking itself too seriously. Wolverine is just a straight-up badass dick, etc.

Superman is practically invincible and a paragon of virtue. I'd love for my daughter to marry him, but I'm not too interested in watching a movie about him because, well, he's going to do the right thing without even a crisis of conscience. Anyways, a good place to start with would be him kicking ass and tearing down with someone that stands as his equal (read: not baldy Luthor).

 

[george_us]

I have no problem with this. The Wachowski's basically did the impossible by making Speed Racer not only into something watchable, but into a damn good movie. I have faith they could do the same with Superman although I though Singer did a great job with Superman: Returns. The sequal should of had Darkseid in it dammit.

 

[Dan]

Superman is only interesting once he's older and he's considering his impact on humanity and his legacy. Give me a Superman with graying hair who's dealing with bigger issues than crushing on Lois and catching falling planes.

 

[Busty]

There's no doubt that Warners will want another Superman film sooner rather than later owing to the potential legal mess with copyrights if they miss the 2012 'deadline'.

And again, all the (Warner 'centric') names mentioned seem plausible but it's going to be interesting to see if Warners stick closer to the comic and it's canon or whether they feel the need to go a more 'radical' route. Though not quite as radical as Abrams' old script.

Personally I'd like to see some massive, epic scale trilogy with some huge villain like Brainiac laying siege to the Earth with various villians in the first two potential films leading to an epic fight in the third one.

And Sarah can play Lois Lane.

Seriously. Dye her hair brown and we have a female protagonist.

Either that or Wonder Woman.

 

[Veidt]

I still can't believe WB approved Singer's take, over JJ Abrams'.

 

[gdt]

ffffuuuuucccckkkkkkk.

JJ could do a great Superman movie.

 

[Veidt]

ffffuuuuucccckkkkkkk.

JJ could do a great Superman movie.

You should read the script. It's almost like that TWK one I made a few posts earlier.But with more action.

TY-ZOR​

I want to hear you cry, Kal-El. Like your mother cried. Cry for me... Superman!


http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13350

 

[Joel Was Right]

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. On one hand you lament that he has no equal but then you don't want the characters introduced from the comic lore that are his equal. Or perhaps I'm just misunderstanding your post...

No, just that you as a writer and producer would be restraint by the limitations of the character. I thought Singer focusing the dimension of Kal-El's loneliness and having to raise a child in preparation of that was interesting, although sadly was a very minor aspect of the movie. Fans, however, just want to see a Smallville season finale with a bigger budget and this time involving a cape. I really really do not find the idea of watching Superman smash through buildings appealing. The entire brute visual aggression has been done to death in other movies yet never managed to save their rep. We know Superman is incredibly strong and fast, we don't need to base a movie on that. In that sense, I feel fans are being selfish by just focusing on the needed action whereas totally ignoring the necessary story and plot to go with it.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I've read people wanting to see Doomsday, or Braniac or other villains be the focus of future movies and I just don't believe that to be a recipe for success. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong in delivering a character - who by all means is immortal - into situations where he would inevitably clean up, if it weren't for his own Achilles heel being a piece of green meteorite. Essentially, you will get a repetitiveness - a predictability - to the character whose own persona really isn't of anything to gain interest to the casual audience, especially in comparison to modern day success' persona's such as Bruce Wayne/Batman. At least with him you have sophistication in his anti-hero demeanour. Whereas with Clark, we have a lovable goof whose a loved sick puppy over a woman who barely is interested in anything but his own, lovable do-gooder perfect alter ego - whose main weapon, is, well, you cant hurt him. I just don't see the basis of a story here. How do you make a franchise about Superman without making it predictable? Is that even possible?

I think the fanbase are selfish to just want their fantasises of actually seeing a fight on screen between him and another come true, whilst ignoring the simple truth that Superman's appeal has been forgotten as a child hero of the past, whilst more interesting characters are dreamt of by children now. I'm quite young myself, and believe me - the interest or intrigue levels for Superman in comparison to other greats like Wolverine, Batman, or even Spiderman (where they can relate with the character more so than any other), is just beyond sense. Donner introduced him to cinema as "you will believe a man can fly". I think our expectation levels in such a competitive and often fatigued genre, has grown to just want more than seeing a man fly.

You need to STFU and go read some comics.

Fucking seriously.

So sick of all these Superman haters bitching about the character when DC has scaled the character's powers so far back he's nearly a joke. I mean seriously, when Batman can be a constant threat to you - clearly you've been power neutered.

Superman is practically invincible and a paragon of virtue. I'd love for my daughter to marry him, but I'm not too interested in watching a movie about him because, well, he's going to do the right thing without even a crisis of conscience. Anyways, a good place to start with would be him kicking ass and tearing down with someone that stands as his equal (read: not baldy Luthor).

Which is why folks are suggesting actual villains he can hit.

The only Lex Luthor worth a damn is Grant Morrison's.

 

[thetrin]

I agree. Darkseid and New Gods please. Either that or Brainiac. No more fucking Lex.

 

[jtb]

See I thought the whole Superman is Jesus thing was a great idea, and what the whole point of the comic was from the beginning, the problem was that the plot and villian (his biggest challenge is carrying a giant rock. Really? Really?) If you have someone of equal power, that will make Superman a much more interesting character. Lex Luthor was good for Superman 1. There's only so many ways Luthor can trick superman into coming in contact with kryptonite.

I think, if done right, (and considering Neo as the chosen one and all), they can do the movie well. Hopefully.

 

[Joel Was Right]

You need to STFU and go read some comics.

Fucking seriously.

So sick of all these Superman haters bitching about the character when DC has scaled the character's powers so far back he's nearly a joke. I mean seriously, when Batman can be a constant threat to you - clearly you've been power neutered.

Yeah, good morning to you too. I haven't read comic books since I was 12 and although I have seen and heard of the 'post crisis' Superman character, I just don't find that appealing. I suppose I'm trying to explain it from a general audience perspective. I have an image of Superman. If you tell me, how about we water that image down to make him more realistic, strangely enough that still doesn't sound appealing. That may be unfair but its just my immediate perception - it feels like putting Wolverine in the Big Brother house.

Whilst you all have your opinions, ones that are probably more knowledgeable about mine, I'm finding it difficult to get excited let alone imagine how a Superman movie would work, at least in the same way people resonated to the Spiderman and Batman characters. Maybe that attitude alone is the one WB need to tackle when deciding on a script.

Superman may have an image problem.

 

[Joel Was Right]

This is why the Wachowki's are being looked at. Neo = Superman = Jesus.

I thought Neo was a depiction of the awaited Jewish messiah? Hah, the irony of the Wachowki brothers being given Jesus to work with :lol

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Yeah, good morning to you too. I haven't read comic books since I was 12 and although I have seen and heard of the 'post crisis' Superman character, I just don't find that appealing.

Then your opinion is invalid, at the very least worthless in discussion of comic related characters.

Seriously, you were 12 ten years ago according to your profile, just when Superman comics started getting good. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Joel Was Right]

Then your opinion is invalid, at the very least worthless in discussion of comic related characters.

Seriously, you were 12 ten years ago according to your profile, just when Superman comics started getting good. :lol :lol :lol

And I suppose everyone needs to get up to date, in your eyes, with the comics before their opinion on a Superman movie can be valid? Well I suppose WB should prep the requirements to get into the theatre to watch the movie..

• You must be a fan of comic books
• You must be up to date with the Post Crisis until issue XXX
• You must be this tall
• You must agree with The Take Out Bandit for your opinion to be valid

Yeah, sure to be a massive hit with the general public. Oh look, POTC4 is on the next screen. And best of all, you don't need to be an expert on pirates and ship-dimensions to have an opinion it. WB should hire you

 

[Mr. Durden]

superman returns was good : [

i mean it was 76% fresh on rt. do they really need to reboot it?

Yeah pretty much. The movie was good, the plot wasn't all that though.

they have not made a good movie in ten years, i doubt they will succeed with such a shitty franchise.

Superman shitty? Gtfo.
It's got amazing potential if they'd just try something more than some ordinary superhero story.

 

[MisterHero]

Actually this might be good because they probably would have ruined Plastic Man for being too serious. Speed Racer was pure fun though, so maybe they could deliver.

I just hope it's good enough to warrant a World's Finest movie. :lol

Superman may have an image problem.

I have to agree, unfortunately. People may or may not have liked the slower paced, introspective Superman in Superman Returns, but that's not what the character is always about. I also agree because I feel that Returns was about trying to make him relevent when Superman used to be a much more dominant part of pop culture. Comics used to be a giant industry (with a semi-revival in the 90s and another after the Marvel movies) but they just aren't it now. Superman, as an icon of that industry, fades in and out with it.

He also used to fight in World War II and fought other less time-specific social injustices. None of the movies really showed that (unless one admits Superman IV exists and he tries to rid the world of nukes). :lol Most of the comics don't show that either. Smallville and Returns especially deal with trying to live as a human, IMO because that's what Marvel heroes had become hugely successful for and DC wanted to emulate that. Funnily enough, Kingdom Come was a sort of response to the 'dark' take on Marvel's brand of heroism. Now Superman has to be one of them. :/

I guess the most significant thing that A Superman did was in Justice Society, when the Kingdom Come Superman tore the head off of a God analogue and threw it into the Source wall (his name was Gog).

Spoiler

I can't ignore the irony.

:lol

I didn't like Infinite Crisis that much, but Superman had an awesome line.

Superboy-Prime: [battling Superman] I'm the only one who can rescue this messed-up universe. I'm the only one who knows how to make it right. I will be its greatest hero! When you're gone... I will be Superman!

Superman: Superman? [rips the S-Shield off Superboy-Prime's costume] You'll never be Superman. Because you have no idea what it means to be Superman.

Superboy-Prime: Yes I do. I'm from Krypton! A better Krypton than yours ever was!

Superman: It's not about where you were born. Or what powers you have. Or what you wear on your chest.

Superboy-Prime: Shut up! [the two continue fighting]

Superman: [after defeating Superboy-Prime] It's about what you do... It's about action.

THIS is the answer. Between Hollywood action and action in the name of good, Superman Returns lacked in both. It has all the comparisons to Jesus and/or other religious figures but rarely the demonstrations of righteousness that are beyond the norm of what Superman can do in the comics or cartoons. He "dies" TWICE in Returns. They'll never do a Doomsday movie now, or if they do it will be redundant. :lol

I wouldn't rest completely on the 'image problem' but a movie like Returns barely shows what Superman has achieved and is capable of achieving. There's writing problems too, and good concepts but shifty execution.

Also, the suit looked plasticy and manufactured. I like Routh though. Replacing him will do them no favors. Christopher Reeve is HUGE to the Superman legacy (his face is often used in the comics now) so IMO it would be best just to continue with it, and beat TDK's writing while justifying Singer's work (because we've had MUCH worse).

Superman's biggest legacy is ACTION Comics. There's no sense in denying that in favor of a love story, even as awesome as Superman I and II were.

 

[Joel Was Right]

MisterHero speaks for me on this thread from now on.

 

[Blader]

Speed Racer was awful, V for Vendetta was awful, the Matrix sequels were disappointments...so yeah, I have no faith in a Wachowski-involved Superman movie (or any kind of Wachowski-involved movie for that matter).

 

[jtb]

Well, I just finished reading the Cliff notes version of the Superman - JJ Abrams movie, and it was really bad. I hope to god they do not put in any of that stuff, because it was downright unbearable. Much, much worse than SR, or ST.

Anybody thinking JJ could do a good Superman needs to read that script. And if they like it.... then they need to watch better movies.

 

[Link1110]

The Wachowskis? So it'll be a decent comic book flick, but the whole thing is going to be turned into a metaphor for Bush?

 

[thefro]

I'd like them to nerf Superman's powers back to the 1940s Fleischer cartoons and basically do a neo-noir mixed in with some serial adventure elements. Lois and Clark's investigating needs to drive the whole plot.

Clark needs to be Superman's real personality and Superman needs to be the act. He should be assertive, likeable, not a klutz, and a very good journalist. Lois needs to be sexy and have a strong personality (and obviously be a brilliant reporter).

None of this Superman = Jesus crap.

 

[Chamber]

You should read the script. It's almost like that TWK one I made a few posts earlier.But with more action.

TY-ZOR​

I want to hear you cry, Kal-El. Like your mother cried. Cry for me... Superman!


http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13350

Holy shit, that's terrible.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Holy shit, that's terrible.

Yeah, I remember reading that script review a long time ago. What the fuck were they thinking?

Although while incredibly stupid, it probably would have been more entertaining than Singer's film.

 

[Veidt]

Holy shit, that's terrible.

:lol
I know what you mean. But Superman stalking Lois and man tears in space is even worse.

 

[Kodiak]

Can we get an Invincible movie instead?

 

[Htown]

I agree. Darkseid and New Gods please. Either that or Brainiac. No more fucking Lex.

I'm fine with Lex being a background character, where he's plotting and doing his own thing trying to make the situation work to his benefit.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Speed Racer was awful, V for Vendetta was awful, the Matrix sequels were disappointments...so yeah, I have no faith in a Wachowski-involved Superman movie (or any kind of Wachowski-involved movie for that matter).

WRONG.

Also, while V for Vendetta is not nearly as good as the comic, 'awful' is much too strong a word for it.

 

[Chamber]

:lol
I know what you mean. But Superman stalking Lois and man tears in space is even worse.

Yeah, watching Supes cry his way into outer space was like a punch in the face but that JJ script is a kick in the balls.

Special Agent Lex Luthor? Who turns out to be Kryptonian? I'd prefer the old Kevin Smith Superman Lives script with Braniac fighting polar bears and the giant, robot spider.