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[Airbus Jr]

 

[BadBurger]

THANK YOU!
This is tiring to eplain every time. He has an agenda and most likely his agenda is to secure his western borders by beating the fuck out of Ukraine to make them understand that they were, are and will be in Russia's sphere of influence. Their role is to slow any possible NATO march, just like we (Poland) are NATO's first line of defense and any sane person here understands that in any case of war we are a battleground to be used...

That's why Putin used the good old commie speach about removing nazies from Ukraine. The end goal is to remove the president with the government and replace them with a puppet state. I can vet anyone for it.

You're falling for Putin's lies and propaganda. NATO is a defense pact - it doesn't "march" or expand, it can only add members of their own volition who are threatened by Russia. This kind of current and past naked aggression by Russia is merely more simple proof that the existence of NATO is needed and warranted.

No NATO state is trying to invade Russia. Ukraine is not some kind of nazi state or supporters of such philosophies. Stop listening to the dictator's lies.

 

[miles118]

I will get into the current topic, I just wanted to address some interesting posts early in this thread:

Poland is a member of NATO, they are untouchable as far as Russia is concerned. That is the point of all this. In reality Russia is not the least bit concerned about being attacked, nukes make that a non-starter. Starting conflicts with their neighbors makes it impossible for them to join NATO where it becomes impossible for Russia to turn them into a vassal state.

Calling what NATO does when adding new members "expansion" is in and of itself a mischaracterization. It enlarges. NATO is not a conquering army like the Mongols, bringing new territories under it by force and annexing them. Those countries have to ASK to join NATO and there is a whole list of requirements they have to meet in order to do so, including not being in current conflict with their neighbors. A nation can even leave if it wants to.

LOL Who maintains this clock? Did 1956 (Hungary), 1968 (Czechoslovakia) and the 90's Post-Yugoslavian wars completely escape their notice? This clock should have been reset a few times by now. 76 years of European peace is an extremely liberal estimate.

The purpose of the bombings was not to kill innocents. I can not think of a single war in modern history that ended simply because civilians were killed. This may surprise you: Hiroshima and Nagasaki were (especially by 1945 standards) legitimate military targets. Hiroshima was the headquarters of the 2nd Army, the site of the Imperial Naval Academy and the home port of the Japanese Navy. Nagasaki was home to several factories that supported the war effort, making torpedoes and ammunition. It was also a Naval port and given it's location it was usually the last stop for troops shipping off to the mainland. If they had the ability to affect it, it would have doubtlessly been the initial stop for troops returning from the mainland to defend the home islands as the Americans closed in. However, the IJN had been almost completely destroyed by that point and any oversea troop movements would have literally been blown out of the water by the American Navy.

Bombing cities was typical at the time. No one considered it a war crime (except, ironically, the Germans when it started happening to them. Goebbels called it "bomb-terror"). Industries that supported the war effort as well as political headquarters were in cities. The fact that they were surrounded by civilians could not be helped. A very important thing to remember is that bombing then is nothing like today. You basically had to mass hundreds of planes to fly over an area and bomb the shit out it with the driving doctrine being quantity over quality. You basically dropped your bombs and hoped they hit their targets. 50% accuracy was considered great, and that was during the daytime when you could see what you were flying over.

The most important thing to remember: The US spent months dropping thousands of leaflets telling civilians to leave the major cities because they were going to be bombed to hell and back, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And they did. The government evacuated virtually everyone that could not work in a factory or hold a rifle (children, elderly) to the countryside or just outside the cities.

Plenty of cities were bombed. Warsaw, Rotterdam, London, Berlin, Stalingrad, Tokyo, Dresden etc. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were no different. The bomb was used for a practical test of it's effectiveness and shock the enemy into surrender. Which it barely did. Even after the second bomb and surrender was decided upon there was and attempt to overthrow the emperor for giving up. Outside of surrendering after Germany was defeated, the bombs were the best outcome for Japan. I can not imagine how much further behind schedule they would be if the US and Soviets had to take over the entire country in a land invasion and march into Tokyo to end the war. So many more people would have died just from starvation and the entirety of the country would have been ravaged.

The Potsdam Declaration was made in July. Japan could have surrendered then, they chose not to.

Are you seriously faulting America for not jumping into a war where no one had attacked them or conspired to attack them and had no treaty obligations? Especially after we told you guys the treaty of Versailles was too harsh and would not sign on to it? Britain and France screwed themselves with their greed in 1918, their lack of preparedness in the interwar years, their appeasement in the late 30s, and their abysmal performance against the Wehrmacht. None of that was America's fault. Be thankful for those supplies. Thousands of men were killed by the Kriegsmarine bringing them to your islands.

Fast forward to today and America is rightfully criticized for sticking it's nose in where it does not belong. I criticize FDR a lot but he played the war situation perfectly and only got fully involved when it was justified.

World War II taught America 2 very bad lessons:
1. War spending is good for the economy.
2. The rest of the world can not be relied upon to be left to it's own devices. We did it twice and World Wars sprang up. Time to stick our foot in every door. It is no surprise when we get our toes stepped on.

America is not the world's policeman. Not now. Not in 1940. Also, the US Army was nowhere near ready for mobilization in 1940.


There was no chance of the mainland armies returning to the home islands. The Imperial Navy was all but gone by that point along with their air power. The US had complete mastery of the seas and the air and the British Royal Navy was on their way to tip the scales even further. The soldiers were on the other side of the Sea of Japan and none of them could swim that far.

The real question is: "Why do these countries near Russia keep wanting to join NATO?"
Answer: So they do not go through what Ukraine is going through right now.
The end of the Socialist regime in Moscow did not mean the end of the need for national defense. Ask anyone from the former Yugoslavian states, Georgia and Ukraine.

Thank you. I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[miles118]

Some ex-european leaders left russians companies except for one. Guess who ? Ex-German chancelor of course :


That's 3 posts that I made exposing German's corruption and it's not even intentional. I just fall on theses on tweeter.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I never said we didn't have propaganda. See above.

Your original point was that the US doesn't have propaganda like Russia has. And I'm telling you that they do, they are just more subtle with it.

You saying that already shows that it works.

Greatest loves of my life; Dutch, Italian, Polish. (was with others, wanted to travel the world from my bed).

Dutch girl was fluent. Born here. Italian (Sicily) very poor English but was fluent by the end. She was at my 21st birthday and I walked her home. She had no idea what I was saying but her smile spoke a million words to me. Polish girl; she drove a car whilst playing Skrillex and nearly murdered us both several times. I used to grip the seat, cross my heart and just hold on. they can all teach the language now. Mostly (" HOLY FUCK, STOP!") , all I ever did was correct then minorly. They wanted to learn, was so endearing and romantic as in every situation we had fallen very deeply in love.

Bitches binned every song and picture I made when they left. (yet still are friends to this day).

Anyway I ramble, your English is brilliant man.

Kinda lost the point with my post. I'm eying two screens here, one this website, the other the news. Apologies.


Dunno what jersey that is, I hope to God it's not a bad one. Don't follow football. The gesture though is bang on.

Hahaha really appreciate it brother

There was no chance of the mainland armies returning to the home islands. The Imperial Navy was all but gone by that point along with their air power. The US had complete mastery of the seas and the air and the British Royal Navy was on their way to tip the scales even further. The soldiers were on the other side of the Sea of Japan and none of them could swim that far.

True that, but still, I would say that they were afraid of losing them.

You're falling for Putin's lies and propaganda. NATO is a defense pact - it doesn't "march" or expand, it can only add members of their own volition who are threatened by Russia. This kind of current and past naked aggression by Russia is merely more simple proof that the existence of NATO is needed and warranted.

No NATO state is trying to invade Russia. Ukraine is not some kind of nazi state or supporters of such philosophies. Stop listening to the dictator's lies.

People keep stating that NATO is a defence pact (it is on paper), while not thinking that NATO can also do background operations and might want to increase its reach as much as possible. The more it expands, the more its leading countries can influence. It's not that hard to understand. It would be great if every country on earth trusted each other, but it doesn't work like that, because there's always some power play going on.

Really, I wish it was that simple.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Your original point was that the US doesn't have propaganda like Russia has. And I'm telling you that they do, they are just more subtle with it.

You saying that already shows that it works.

 

[BadBurger]

People keep stating that NATO is a defence pact (it is on paper), while not thinking that NATO can also do background operations and might want to increase its reach as much as possible. The more it expands, the more its leading countries can influence. It's not that hard to understand. It would be great if every country on earth trusted each other, but it doesn't work like that, because there's always some power play going on.

No. NATO is a defense pact that was formed so countries could be allied against an aggressive, expansive USSR (and Russia has not changed under Putin). That is all that it is. There is no reason to speculate about NATO in a way that Russian propaganda tries to convince people to - which you and others have clearly fallen for. It's like some weird kind of misinformation-borne victim blaming on a geopolitical scale.

 

[BigBooper]

Was it a mostly peaceful invasion?

 

[miles118]

People keep stating that NATO is a defence pact (it is on paper), while not thinking that NATO can also do background operations and might want to increase its reach as much as possible. The more it expands, the more its leading countries can influence. It's not that hard to understand. It would be great if every country on earth trusted each other, but it doesn't work like that, because there's always some power play going on.

Really, I wish it was that simple.

Where is the proof ?Until there is proof that's just conspiracy theories and russian propaganda. If Nato wanted to encroach towards Russia it would have done so with the excuse of aiding Ukraine. Also Nato has never made any aggressives act against other nations because it is a defensif pact. We have however proof that Putin likes to go to war.

 

[Sosokrates]

Just go to show early footage did not give a reliable picture. Ukraine military has been doing some damage to Russia's, but like others have pointed out, it will be futile given the much larger and more sophisticated russian military



137 Ukrainians dead and russian citizens dead to, fuck this shit.

 

[Airbus Jr]

This is Satan 2 liquid fueled nuclear missile. Only Russia has it and it's capable of destroying the whole world. If Putin gets angry enough to deploy this thing, even the cows in Daura go hear am.

Need to sabotage russia nuclear weapons before it happens

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

This is Satan 2 liquid fueled nuclear missile. Only Russia has it and it's capable of destroying the whole world. If Putin gets angry enough to deploy this thing, even the cows in Daura go hear am.

Terryfing.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

No. NATO is a defense pact that was formed so countries could be allied against an aggressive, expansive USSR (and Russia has not changed under Putin). That is all that it is. There is no reason to speculate about NATO in a way that Russian propaganda tries to convince people to - which you and others have clearly fallen for. It's like some weird kind of misinformation-borne victim blaming on a geopolitical scale.

Where is the proof ?Until there is proof that's just conspiracy theories and russian propaganda. If Nato wanted to encroach towards Russia it would have done so with the excuse of aiding Ukraine. Also Nato has never made any aggressives act against other nations because it is a defensif pact. We have however proof that Putin likes to go to war.

See? I'm making a question of what ifs, and immediately I'm being said that I fell for Russian propaganda. Do you guys ever question anything in your life or you just go with what others tell you? Not even talking how I'm not against NATO at all, especially because I'm from one of NATO's founding countries. I support NATO's existence but excuse me if I ask some relevant questions to how it operates. US has never invaded countries, poor thing.

You guys never learn. You never question anything. How can I prove what I said? The US can just deny any involvement and that's it, no one doubts it because, well, it's the US, the daddy of the world. I'm posing a question and knowing how the US operates, I'm pretty confident that that's how things go. But hey, tinfoil hat and everything right? Corruption doesn't exist, lust for power doesn't exist, and NATO is just a bunch of happy friends trying to make the world better, you're all right.

 

[NeonGhost]

This is Satan 2 liquid fueled nuclear missile. Only Russia has it and it's capable of destroying the whole world. If Putin gets angry enough to deploy this thing, even the cows in Daura go hear am.

Need to sabotage russia nuclear weapons before it happens

Those can be shot down

 

[Airbus Jr]

See? I'm making a question of what ifs, and immediately I'm being said that I fell for Russian propaganda. Do you guys ever question anything in your life or you just go with what others tell you? Not even talking how I'm not against NATO at all, especially because I'm from one of NATO's founding countries. I support NATO's existence but excuse me if I ask some relevant questions to how it operates. US has never invaded countries, poor thing.

You guys never learn. You never question anything. How can I prove what I said? The US can just deny any involvement and that's it, no one doubts it because, well, it's the US, the daddy of the world. I'm posing a question and knowing how the US operates, I'm pretty confident that that's how things go. But hey, tinfoil hat and everything right? Corruption doesn't exist, lust for power doesn't exist, and NATO is just a bunch of happy friends trying to make the world better, you're all right.

Youre stuck in your own petty mind while ignoring that big elephant in the room

 

[Sosokrates]

Those can be shot down

Not all of them, they release 10-15 nukes each caperble of taking out a large city.

 

[BadBurger]

See? I'm making a question of what ifs, and immediately I'm being said that I fell for Russian propaganda. Do you guys ever question anything in your life or you just go with what others tell you? Not even talking how I'm not against NATO at all, especially because I'm from one of NATO's founding countries. I support NATO's existence but excuse me if I ask some relevant questions to how it operates. US has never invaded countries, poor thing.

You guys never learn. You never question anything. How can I prove what I said? The US can just deny any involvement and that's it, no one doubts it because, well, it's the US, the daddy of the world. I'm posing a question and knowing how the US operates, I'm pretty confident that that's how things go. But hey, tinfoil hat and everything right? Corruption doesn't exist, lust for power doesn't exist, and NATO is just a bunch of happy friends trying to make the world better, you're all right.

Again there's nothing to speculate about unless one is attempting to spread Russian propaganda. NATO is an open and transparent body. All of their deliberations and decisions are public. We all know what they are, what they do (well, I suppose not all of us....).

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Youre stuck in your own petty mind while ignoring that big elephant in the room

Oh thank you enlightened one for your wisdom. I'm not ignoring anything.

Again there's nothing to speculate about unless one is attempting to spread Russian propaganda. NATO is an open and transparent body. All of their deliberations and decisions are public. We all know what they are, what they do (well, I suppose not all of us....).

Man, I'm just posting a question of what if. I don't give a fuck if you believe me or not, all I see is people trying to make themselves be the good guy, that's it. It's like you forget who's in charge of NATO and they are transparent as they want to be. Always always forgetting who's in charge.

But hey, I'm not going to continue repeating myself. I'm not here to make you believe in what I say, you either do or don't, I couldn't care less.

 

[NeonGhost]

Not all of them, they release 10-15 nukes each caperble of taking out a large city.

And how many Wil we launch

 

[Kraz]

Actually I am outside the US right now and when I watch Fox News I have the impression of watching a propaganda machine. Nothing but false information. Pot calling the kettle black with "fake news".

I'm grateful that Fox propaganda is only available on cable in my country in its US format and not curated for us. Makes the citizens that fall for it stand out fluorescently from their failure even when they and their stuff isn't completely draped in flags from religio-symphonia nationalist fervour.

See? I'm making a question of what ifs, and immediately I'm being said that I fell for Russian propaganda. Do you guys ever question anything in your life or you just go with what others tell you? Not even talking how I'm not against NATO at all, especially because I'm from one of NATO's founding countries. I support NATO's existence but excuse me if I ask some relevant questions to how it operates. US has never invaded countries, poor thing.

You guys never learn. You never question anything. How can I prove what I said? The US can just deny any involvement and that's it, no one doubts it because, well, it's the US, the daddy of the world. I'm posing a question and knowing how the US operates, I'm pretty confident that that's how things go. But hey, tinfoil hat and everything right? Corruption doesn't exist, lust for power doesn't exist, and NATO is just a bunch of happy friends trying to make the world better, you're all right.

One of the takeaways from our earlier exchange which overlaps here is there is a long history between these nations in Eastern Europe and Russia/USSR with, what the West in general would consider misplaced/unfounded, a concern about a desire for retaliation for past encounters in those areas with a fear that any hawks in NATO would taking advantage of that hypothetical situation.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Oh thank you enlightened one for your wisdom. I'm not ignoring anything.

Man, I'm just posting a question of what if. I don't give a fuck if you believe me or not, all I see is people trying to make themselves be the good guy, that's it. It's like you forget who's in charge of NATO and they are transparent as they want to be. Always always forgetting who's in charge.

But hey, I'm not going to continue repeating myself. I'm not here to make you believe in what I say, you either do or don't, I couldn't care less.

Everyone here is busy to stop russian invasion and end this war

But it seems like youre priority and focus are on your fictional debauchery NATO conspiracy ( despite youre from one of nato countries itself)

Im gona have to ask you to stop doing that ( cos its counter productive to this disscusion)

 

[Bullet Club]

 

[Sosokrates]

And how many Wil we launch

In a nuclear war? Well the usa + russia have about 10,000 nukes each.
It. Wouldn't be the end of humanity but people in cities and near military bases would likely perish and even those will fallout shelter with supplies would have to live in a iradiated world.

But there is a very low chance of nuclear war because of this, Putin does not want complete destruction and suffering.

 

[Doczu]

You're falling for Putin's lies and propaganda. NATO is a defense pact - it doesn't "march" or expand, it can only add members of their own volition who are threatened by Russia. This kind of current and past naked aggression by Russia is merely more simple proof that the existence of NATO is needed and warranted.

No NATO state is trying to invade Russia. Ukraine is not some kind of nazi state or supporters of such philosophies. Stop listening to the dictator's lies.

No, you are just shortsighted and don't see the bigger picture. There's a reason why we are posting on a gaming forum and not leading a nuclear power in a real life game of Risk.
Yes i know NATO is not going to march towards Russia, but should any agression between two powers happen would you rather have a buffor state between you to buy time or to wage war on instead of your own turf? That's what Ukraine was to Russia. Clay to fight on.
Now losing Ukraine is bad for Russia so that's why they are taking it by force. Why do you think Crimea was ripped from Ukraine back then? In fear of losing it to the EU/NATO, should Ukraine try to be accepted. I mean, thst was the whole reason of the revolutions they had.
And i didn't say Ukraine is a nazi state, i just stated the "official reason", as said by Putin.
You should take some courses in reading comprehension and (geo)politics cause life ain't reddit and twitter and the powers of the world are making moves that may prepare them for a bigger war.

 

[NeonGhost]

In a nuclear war? Well the usa + russia have about 10,000 nukes each.
It. Wouldn't be the end of humanity but people in cities and near military bases would likely perish and even those will fallout shelter with supplies would have to live in a iradiated world.

But there is a very low chance of nuclear war because of this, Putin does not want complete destruction and suffering.

Exactly

 

[Fess]

*Bad man invades country*
The World: "Hey stop that. You're killing innocents."
Bad man: "No."
The World: "Stop it or we'll step in to help them."
Bad man: "Then I'll nuke you and take you all with me."
The World: "Oh....ok."

The real problem.

Bad man: ”Remove those sanctions at once.”
The World: ”Never! We’ll make you suffer for your actions!”
Bad Man: ”Then I'll nuke you and take you all with me.”
The World: ”…”

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

One of the takeaways from our earlier exchange which overlaps here is there is a long history between these nations in Eastern Europe and Russia/USSR with, what the West in general would consider misplaced/unfounded, a concern about a desire for retaliation for past encounters in those areas with a fear that any hawks in NATO would taking advantage of that hypothetical situation.

True, and I do think that those "hawks" would jump on the opportunity to discredit one of their biggest enemies. They have been doing it for a while (through coups, inciting rebellions etc), so it's not completely unjustified (both sides, this is not a NATO only thing)

Really, I wish the world and politics were not so corrupt and always with these power plays.

Everyone here is busy to stop russian invasion

But it seems like youre priority and focus are on NATO conspiracy ( despite youre from one of nato countries itself)

If you actually paid attention to the conversation, this started with the video I posted and I was gladly debating it with people. Because it's one of the reasons that Putin talks about, bs or not.

And you're busy trying to stop a Russian invasion? Are you in Ukraine?

 

[InverseAgonist]

Those can be shot down

No they can't. The American NMD system is limited to small scale launches as we would see from North Korea. This is why the GBD interceptors are based in Alaska and California with the X-band RADAR tracking site in Alaska.

Any exchange with the Russians will entail so many missiles it will overwhelm the NMD system. That's why Russian claims that ABM is destabilizing is really just silly talk.

 

[Kittehkraken]

Those can be shot down

Nobody is firing just one of those at somebody. If something like that is ever fired in anger its all out war. Even the best missile defense systems do not have a 100% success rate. Anybody who says they do is full of shit.

 

[Airbus Jr]

True, and I do think that those "hawks" would jump on the opportunity to discredit one of their biggest enemies. They have been doing it for a while (through coups, inciting rebellions etc), so it's not completely unjustified (both sides, this is not a NATO only thing)

Really, I wish the world and politics were not so corrupt and always with these power plays.

If you actually paid attention to the conversation, this started with the video I posted and I was gladly debating it with people. Because it's one of the reasons that Putin talks about, bs or not.

And you're busy trying to stop a Russian invasion? Are you in Ukraine?

You were spreading FUD and lies about NATO being a criminal organization and are doing invasion exactly Putin is doing right now

 

[FatallyYours]

For those asking about the numbers of casualties and why they are so low: propaganda

Ukraine will not say how many they have lost so not to demoralise the population, whist also making sure to plaster all Russian losses they can confirm everywhere, to bolster morale. Ukraine have lost more than ~150 people easily, it just won't be reported

Russia will not advertise losses for the same reason, they don't want to lose any more popularity at home for the war. No losses, no one complains in theory. Russia will also have lost more than they will ever report. If the rumors are true about the portable crematoriums, it's possible Russian losses will never be fully known

Propaganda is also the reason Russia didn't just cruise missile/artillery the hell out of Ukraine for days before a land invasion. It looks bad on TV and twitter when you have thousands of dead civilians and destroyed City blocks, it's indiscriminate, and would not help his cause. Smaller scale bombing can be much more surgical, and even if they hit civilian infrastructure, would only lead to small "acceptable" losses

I'm not condoning any of this. But propaganda is a powerful tool for all sides

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

You were spreading FUD and lies about NATO being criminal organization and are doing invasion exactly Putin is doing right now

Man, fuck off with that bullshit. I'm asking legit questions, trying to have a decent discussion about it, trying to understand the problem. Other users have no problem discussing it, but for some reason you have and now accuse me of spreading FUD about NATO being a criminal organization? (Your words, not mine) By posing questions? Like someone said above, try to learn a little bit more about geopolitics, how the world actually operates, and then we can have a discussion.

 

[BadBurger]

No, you are just shortsighted and don't see the bigger picture. There's a reason why we are posting on a gaming forum and not leading a nuclear power in a real life game of Risk.
Yes i know NATO is not going to march towards Russia, but should any agression between two powers happen would you rather have a buffor state between you to buy time or to wage war on instead of your own turf? That's what Ukraine was to Russia. Clay to fight on.
Now losing Ukraine is bad for Russia so that's why they are taking it by force. Why do you think Crimea was ripped from Ukraine back then? In fear of losing it to the EU/NATO, should Ukraine try to be accepted. I mean, thst was the whole reason of the revolutions they had.
And i didn't say Ukraine is a nazi state, i just stated the "official reason", as said by Putin.
You should take some courses in reading comprehension and (geo)politics cause life ain't reddit and twitter and the powers of the world are making moves that may prepare them for a bigger war.

Ukraine is not owed to Russia. The territory of Crimea was not there's by divine right or something. Ukraine is a sovereign country. If Ukraine joined NATO, NATO (or the EU, not sure why you mentioned them) would not suddenly "acquire" Ukraine or something.

I don't feel like continuing this conversation further because:

A. You're obviously an apologist for Putin and continue to spread his lies and misinformation
B. You clearly don't grasp even the very basics of what we're discussing on a fundamental level. See above, and then reread your post. It's just nonsense

So, I'll just leave you to live in your weird disinfo conspiracy world I guess.

 

[Kraz]

You were spreading FUD and lies about NATO being a criminal organization and are doing invasion exactly Putin is doing right now

I read the contributor as providing insight into the thought process, not promoting it. Have to keep in mind English isn't their first language and their culture is different.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I read the contributor as providing insight into the thought process, not promoting it. Have to keep in mind English isn't their first language and their culture is different.

Damn, is my English that bad? hahahahahaha

But yeah, I'm not promoting anything. I'm just trying to understand the reasons.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Now losing Ukraine is bad for Russia so that's why they are taking it by force.

By invading you can be sure Ukraine is lost to Russia for the next 50 years. Guess when the desire of Ukrainians to join NATO started increasing? 2014. I wonder what happened then…

Basically Russia:

 

[Airbus Jr]

I read the contributor as providing insight into the thought process, not promoting it. Have to keep in mind English isn't their first language and their culture is different.

Read his earlier post hes justifying this russian invasion

Other poster also share the same belief as i am

This guy sounds like putin sympathizer to me

 

[Jsisto]

Read his earlier post hes justifying this russian invasion

Other poster also share the same belief as i am

This guy sounds like putin sympathizer to me

Theres a difference between justifying it and trying to understand the reasoning, which is what the poster is doing. You’re letting your own personal feelings on this matter cloud your judgement. We are all just trying to have a conversation here to understand what is going on and what lead to it. Its clear you are very upset about the situation in Ukraine, we all are, man, but no one here is defending Putin or apologizing for him. I really suggest you give people a bit more benefit of the doubt. You can have a greater understanding of why someone does something evil, while still condemning the act. The world is not black and white.

 

[Kraz]

Damn, is my English that bad? hahahahahaha

But yeah, I'm not promoting anything. I'm just trying to understand the reasons.

Not at all, your English is technically very good. There's just a subtle things in the language, as with any language, when spoken or unspoken with cultural reference communicates unintended impressions.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Theres a difference between justifying it and trying to understand the reasoning. You can have a greater understanding of why someone does something evil, while still condemning the act. The world is not black and white.

The guy constantly moving the goalpost and changing the subject from russia attack into blaming nato and usa on this matter

He backpedal abit latter but you can still see his post history

 

[Boss Mog]

Ten years ago I would have said I can't believe this is real.

Well it's at least a little better than The View's Joy Behar saying she was upset that the war might ruin her vacation to Europe.

 

[BigBooper]

Read his earlier post hes justifying this russian invasion

Other poster also share the same belief as i am

This guy sounds like putin sympathizer to me

No, you are just a dunce. Critical thinking is a skill to be praised, not met with calls of "hur dur traitor."

 

[Airbus Jr]

No, you are just a dunce. Critical thinking is a skill to be praised, not met with calls of "hur dur traitor."

Read that royalaflame dude post history and come back latter

Have a nice day

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Theres a difference between justifying it and trying to understand the reasoning. You can have a greater understanding of why someone does something evil, while still condemning the act. The world is not black and white.

Exactly. I've already said many time that I condemn Russia's actions, but since I dare questioning the reasons of why this is happening, I get labelled a Putin apologist (a disgusting imperialistic oligarch asshole that I hate).

The guy constantly moving the goalpost and changing the topic from russia attack into blaming nato and usa

He backpedal abit latter but you can see his initial post

I'm not an apologist, I'm not justifying anything, I'm just looking for answers and trying to find a reason. I'm not back-pedalling anything, this has been my stance from the very beginning.

Not at all, your English is technically very good. There's just a subtle things in the language, as with any language, when spoken or unspoken with cultural reference communicates unintended impressions.

Yeah, I can see that. For some reason I went from a person hating Putin to being a Putin apologist because of it, oh well...

 

[Gp1]

Situation is fluid again guys

From The drive Warzone
edit: and it looks like the fireball over Ukraine was indeed a Ukrainian Su-27









Russia knows that they have to solve the problem in Kyiv fast or they will face a prolonged resistance / guerrilla

 

[Jsisto]

The guy constantly moving the goalpost and changing the subject from russia attack into blaming nato and usa on this matter

He backpedal abit latter but you can see his initial post before

This is an oversimplification of the discussion being had. We all are against the conflict and want it to end. World Politics is incredibly complicated and it’s okay to discuss historical context that might have lead to this. I suggest you just block the dude and move on. I don’t see what else you expect to happen here.

 

[Doczu]

Ukraine is not owed to Russia. The territory of Crimea was not there's by divine right or something. Ukraine is a sovereign country. If Ukraine joined NATO, NATO (or the EU, not sure why you mentioned them) would suddenly "acquire" Ukraine.

I don't feel like continuing this conversation further because:

A. You're obviously an apologist for Putin and continue to spread his lies and misinformation
B. You clearly don't grasp even the very basics of what we're discussing on a fundamental level. See above, and then reread your post. It's just nonsense

So, I'll just leave you to live in your weird disinfo conspiracy world I guess.

Yeah sure, apologist my ass. Which lies am i spreading? I'd really want you to point them out.
If anyone is not grasping what is happening then it's you and people like you around you.

Russia is taking over Ukraine because Ukraine was trying to move out of Russia's sphere of influence. Be it on their own or with external help. Russia doesn't like anyone meddling on their playground and they retaliated by taking Crimea and creating mini puppet states to keep Ukraine in a constant state of military alert. Crimea wasn't their by divine right, Crimea had their navy base and access to the Black Sea and losing it would be a major strategic loss for Russia. Now when the time is right Putin tries to remove the current government to replace it (again) with pro russian supporters. The nazi rethoric is just an excuse.

What do you think Putin is doing? Attacking Ukraine just because? What do you think their end game is? He's bleeding money, equipment and lives for something and that something was important enough to warrant an invasion.

You don't like that some countries are literally "owned" by other countries? Well cry me a river. Or do something to change how the world works and how in all human history we had imperialistic countries and their subs. And i'm talking out of personal experience here and calling me Putins apologist just gives me a casus belli to find and slap you.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Yeah sure, apologist my ass. Which lies am i spreading? I'd really want you to point them out.
If anyone is not grasping what is happening then it's you and people like you around you.

Russia is taking over Ukraine because Ukraine was trying to move out of Russia's sphere of influence. Be it on their own or with external help. Russia doesn't like anyone meddling on their playground and they retaliated by taking Crimea and creating mini puppet states to keep Ukraine in a constant state of military alert. Crimea wasn't their by divine right, Crimea had their navy base and access to the Black Sea and losing it would be a major strategic loss for Russia. Now when the time is right Putin tries to remove the current government to replace it (again) with pro russian supporters. The nazi rethoric is just an excuse.

What do you think Putin is doing? Attacking Ukraine just because? What do you think their end game is? He's bleeding money, equipment and lives for something and that something was important enough to warrant an invasion.

You don't like that some countries are literally "owned" by other countries? Well cry me a river. Or do something to change how the world works and how in all human history we had imperialistic countries and their subs. And i'm talking out of personal experience here and calling me Putins apologist just gives me a casus belli to find and slap you.

If Ukraine wants to join NATO, join Russia, join the Lakers, join the Avengers, buying Playstation or doing anything its Ukraine rights as a sovereign nation and none of feckin russia business

 

[Jsisto]

If Ukraine wants to join NATO, join Russia, join the Lakers, join the Avengers, buying Playstation or doing anything its Ukraine rights and none of feckin russia business

You’re right. There are so many parallels in history that this statement could also apply to. War is horrible.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Americans are so easy to manipulate that it's laughable. Operation mockingbird is a great success.