plagiarize
Banned
People don't nuke based on a fear of the new rules then being used against them when power tips back the other way.
Schumer: Democrats will filibuster Gorsuch nomination
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People don't nuke based on a fear of the new rules then being used against them when power tips back the other way.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
Again, appointing a qualified judge is not "rolling over". This isn't middle school, and this eye for an eye attitude of "fuck everything because we got screwed" is foolish. Democrats need to save their outrage for something outrageous. Gorsuch is not outrageous and blocking him will not magically make Garland a Supreme Court judge.
RPGCrazied
Member
Great, but in the end the GOP will change the rules and get him through. The democrats, specially now with what we know about Trump and his goons is block everything. I mean for fuck sake Trump is under an FBI investigation.
Maybe that is why he is trying to ram all this through this week? Shit is about to hit the fan.
Maybe that is why he is trying to ram all this through this week? Shit is about to hit the fan.
Yes it is and the GOP have made it "middle school".
plagiarize
Banned
Allowing the GOP to deny a qualified judge a spot on the supreme court, just because their bullshit lead to Trump picking a qualified judge isn't something that should happen.
You can't on one hand give the GOP a pass for it and be like 'well, get over it! Gorsuch is qualified so he should get confirmed!'.
How should party before country partisan bullshit be responded to?
Rewarding the party that did it with an easy confirmation?
NOPE.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Uh huh.
I mean, it just makes me feel ill that no matter how this song and dance ends, Republicans come out ahead.
Sure, public opinion will be in the toilet, but that's never stopped them before. Lord knows they're going to cook up some insane scheme to get their guy into the White House when 2020 rolls around (Provided Trump can't/won't run).
The political calculus on this is easy.
Scenario 1: Dems let gorsuch through in the hopes that they can filibuster a more insane nominee. Republicans then nuke the filibusterer and ram insane person through anyway. Or if no vacancies come up then dems have to nuke the filibuster if they don't have enough votes because you can bet your ass republicans would filibuster again.
Scenario 2: Dems filibusterer and call McConnels bluff. He nukes the filibusterer and rams him through.
Either way Trump gets his nominees through but you make republicans eliminate the filibusterer for Supreme court noms taking away the tool for obstruction they used to fuck obama. Either way democrats better pray that no other vacancies come up. But in one of the scenarios you force republicans to for once remove means of obstruction.
Scenario 1: Dems let gorsuch through in the hopes that they can filibuster a more insane nominee. Republicans then nuke the filibusterer and ram insane person through anyway. Or if no vacancies come up then dems have to nuke the filibuster if they don't have enough votes because you can bet your ass republicans would filibuster again.
Scenario 2: Dems filibusterer and call McConnels bluff. He nukes the filibusterer and rams him through.
Either way Trump gets his nominees through but you make republicans eliminate the filibusterer for Supreme court noms taking away the tool for obstruction they used to fuck obama. Either way democrats better pray that no other vacancies come up. But in one of the scenarios you force republicans to for once remove means of obstruction.
Veritigo_X
Member
So roll over this and wait for them to use the nuclear option for that "something outrageous" later? Nah, fuck that.
plagiarize
Banned
We're praying for that with or without the filibuster being left in place.
Lol
Fenderputty
Banned
lol spare the drama. This forces Trump to either nominate somone closer to the spirit of Garland or it forces turtle man to go nuclear.
VendettaRed07
Member
Dems should constantly invoke the popular vote as a reason for a need for a more moderate judge
tfur
Member
The Democrats are hypocrites. This is all their doing.
The ABA gave this judge their highest rating,
All of the Senate Democrats were okay with him when they approved him for the 10th circuit.
Joe Biden Argued for Delaying Supreme Court Picks in 1992
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/us/politics/joe-biden-argued-for-delaying-supreme-court-picks-in-1992.html
Harry Reid says unlike the GOP, Senate Democrats never held up a Supreme Court nomination
LOL
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/20/harry-reid/harry-reid-says-unlike-gop-senate-democrats-never-/
Schumer to fight new Bush high court picks
http://www.politico.com/story/2007/07/schumer-to-fight-new-bush-high-court-picks-005146
Yeah I know. We are fucked on the Supreme court front if anything else happens. The point is to make republicans remove their tools for obstruction.
ah yes, hypocrisy is obviously the thing that will sink the democratic party since everyone knows it's entirely unacceptable to the american electorate
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I don't get this fear they will nuke the fillibuster so it couldn't be used next time..... Its the republicans they would of Nuked it next time too.... They aren't trying to play fair (see Garland) and its about time the Dems force them to set precedents because the pendulum seems poised to swing the other way
Tranqueris
Banned
This guy seems to be a mix of shitty decisions and "oh goodness" and "gee golly why I would never" deflections.
Anyway, good. McConnell should be forced to decide if he really wants this judge or if he's fine with the next Democratic Party President getting their judges through with 51 votes. Also Schumer needs to shut the government down if Trump tries to pass his bullshit budget the way it is.
Veritigo_X
Member
Oh no, they'll look the hypocrites! What ever will we do?
VendettaRed07
Member
Oh fuck off
Garland never got so much as a HEARING. Over a year and NOTHING. That is unprecedented and has never happened before
Who gives a fuck what Biden said? GOP still got their pick.
This judge would have been easily confirmed without their fuckery this past year.
George Washington
Member
Finally.
Trump can have Gorsuch after Garland gets the hearing heis due deserves.
Trump can have Gorsuch after Garland gets the hearing he
lol how would it be more effective if it's just going to be nuked regardless? use the energy right now to hit trump and the republicans from all sides
Manmademan
Member
You're assuming a LOT that McConnell has the Senate votes to remove a filibuster. They aren't united on that one at ALL and they only have 52 senators.
There isn't a vast public outcry for Gorsuch to be nominated just as there wasn't for Garland. The public doesn't care, and removing one of the most useful tools of the minority party (which ALL of them have been in recently) to curry favor with President Trump has very little upside.
Having actual moral values means Democrats *are* more likely to be dispirited by hypocrisy at the voting booth.
The benefit is that all of this filibuster stuff is way too "inside baseball" for most voters.
Well then we get a Supreme court pick back in 4 years if mcconnel can't remove the filibuster. Hidden scenario 3 has been revealed.
the idea that democratic voters are somehow fundamentally different from republican voters is ridiculous. everyone wants to vote for politicians who will enforce their ideology, accusations of hypocrisy only matter in high school debate club.
The Viewtiful One
Member
tearsintherain
Member
End of the day the republicans nuking the filibuster rule is the best thing, its highly unlikely either party will get to 60 majority anytime in the next few decades so lowering it to 51 for a SCOTUS approval just means the democrats will have an easier time next time they control the senate and presidency.
To add some necessary detail to the second rule as that sounds too abstract as is: Once a candidate has been formally nominated by a President, The Senate must put the name to a full Senate vote before another name can be submitted by the President or the nominated individual withdrawals themselves from consideration.
There. Now at least Republicans will need to formally address their issues with Garland and at least give him the dignity of a confirmation hearing, instead of pretending he doesn't exist.
plagiarize
Banned
This bullshit again.
January in an election year is not June in an election year. Biden was talking about June onwards, very clearly. He said in *June* 'Should a supreme court justice resign tomorrow or in the next few weeks'. Not, 'should a supreme court justice resign anytime this year'.
Garland was qualified. The GOP brought this on themselves.
Manmademan
Member
Which is the most likely scenario, all things considered.
If this were a competent health care plan or a substantial revision to the tax code I could see McConnell having the political clout to wrangle 50 votes to nuke the filibuster and ram the legislation through.
For Gorsuch though? Nah.
Edit: think of it this way. Trump being RE elected in 2020 is fantasy land. He's lucky if he avoids impeachment. Whoever the next democratic president is will be free to push through the farthest left justices they can find with 50 democratic votes when Ginsburg/Kennedy/Breyer step down, with no incentive at all to nominate a moderate.
You think McConnell wants that scenario?
tyranny of the majority, here we come.
It's the severe flaw of our 2 party system. There isn't compromise when it's night and day deep beliefs.
n00bsauce87
Member
I don't believe it for one second. They will fold and vote him in. Or find senators who are going to retire to cast a yes vote
Future PhaZe
Member
By the same token of Trump takes an L on healthcare he's going to go to war with his own party to get Gorsuch through otherwise he looks like the biggest loser ever by not getting anything done despite Republican majorities.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Good.
I bet this wouldn't have happened without the very recent developments regarding the FBI investigation.
I bet this wouldn't have happened without the very recent developments regarding the FBI investigation.
SCOTUS nominees never answer the most basic questions at hearings. It's Kabuki.
I hope Schumer doesn't do this because it's no turning back on simple majority requirements.
Outdoor Miner
Member
Good. Let them try to get 60 votes or nuke the filibuster. This is a stolen seat as far as I'm concerned and the only ass that should be on it is Garland's.
If you can take the time be sure to write or call your Senators for positive reinforcement and let them know you have their backs on this.
If you can take the time be sure to write or call your Senators for positive reinforcement and let them know you have their backs on this.
Fuck repubs. They stole the nom. Spineless dems finally sticking up for their constituents by fighting back
Edit: proud to have warren as my senator
Her statement:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...preme-court/elq2QqQBdJW5Fh0s2isXhJ/story.html
Edit: proud to have warren as my senator
Her statement:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...preme-court/elq2QqQBdJW5Fh0s2isXhJ/story.html
if you can never use the filibuster for fear of it being destroyed then it functionally doesn't exist anyway
Manmademan
Member
Trump ALREADY looks bad. He's rapidly heading towards where Nixon was in approval when he was run out of office...and he's yet to actually run into any difficulties that weren't self inflicted. God help him if he ends up with a Sandy/Katrina/9-11/Market Crash scenario that requires actual competency. We'll be looking at single digit approval rates.
Trump has no credibility with anyone that isn't already a hardcore republican partisan, and those people will support the party line regardless.
Senators tend to think longer term than house reps do: there is no advantage at all to hitching your wagon to the sinking ship that's the Trump presidency right now.
Trump might well be the catalyst for political change at this point, accelerationism in action.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Good.
I don't want to hear that pick your battles, coulda been worse shit. Dude shouldn't have even been nominated because the seat should have been filled by Merrick Garland. Fuckers.
I don't want to hear that pick your battles, coulda been worse shit. Dude shouldn't have even been nominated because the seat should have been filled by Merrick Garland. Fuckers.
It still amazes me that Republican had the gall to literally steal Supreme Court seat from Obama. When the fuck did Mitch the Turtle and his cronies gain the power to rewrite the US constitution?
Democrats should never cooperate with those assholes ever again. Hell, they should be throwing accusations like Gorsuch being a compromised pick because of Trump's Russian ties and investigation.
"Do American really want a Russia puppet sitting in the Supreme Court?"
Democrats need to stop playing nice. It has gotten them anywhere the past decade. Anyone saying that they should allow the nomination to go throughout simply because "it could have been worse" are part of the problem.
Democrats should never cooperate with those assholes ever again. Hell, they should be throwing accusations like Gorsuch being a compromised pick because of Trump's Russian ties and investigation.
"Do American really want a Russia puppet sitting in the Supreme Court?"
Democrats need to stop playing nice. It has gotten them anywhere the past decade. Anyone saying that they should allow the nomination to go throughout simply because "it could have been worse" are part of the problem.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Senators ready to retire or ones in red areas where they have enough of an uphill battle as it is.
Either way in the end Trump will get his pick, so it's all for show anyways.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Approving someone for the 10th circuit is not the same as approving someone to the Supreme Court. Why would you even try to make that connection?
Also, context is very important here. You can't just look at this in a vacuum as if Merrick Garland's obstruction never happened and all of the smoke about Trump and Russia doesn't exist.
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