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Sea of Thieves on PS5 reveals Microsoft's Trojan Horse to turn millions of PS5 users into Xbox users
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Nah, it's been this way for a long time. People just don't want to acknowledge it.
Xbox network - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I'm not even gonna touch this because I just saw
Topher
do that on the 2nd page.But you know what's really funny about this? I get you're doing this to make it seem like massive gains for Microsoft in the "MAU war" or whatever, if that's what it is now. But guess who else is going to count these new players and new game sales towards their own MAUs and revenue metrics? Sony.
Every SOT player on PS5 is a PS5 user. That's an extra user to count towards MAU stats. That's an extra sales copy to count towards PlayStation B2P revenue and software unit sales. Every gain in MAU or sales metrics these ports bring for Microsoft, they do the same for Sony (and Nintendo, with whatever games get ported to their system).
So in a funny way, the MAU metrics basically stay the same between them. Microsoft might see the revenue & profits gap close some compared to say Sony, but MAU metrics are basically going to remain the same since their slate is seemingly locked for multiplatform going forward.
If this was a way to argue Microsoft "flipping the script" and beating other platforms, you somehow picked the one metric that probably sees the least gain for Microsoft over competitors.
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ManaByte
Banned
Sega doesn't have a platform agnostic account system so that's a disingenuous comparison.
dotnotbot
Member
Microsoft neither. Logging into account doesn't mean shit. I'm playing on Playstation hardware. Their account is just a way of carrying progress between platforms in this case.
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ManaByte
Banned
Every SOT player is both a PS5 and Xbox user. I know that might make some people's heads explode. But it's how it works. You're simultaneously logged into PSN and Xbox at the same time! GASP!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It does matter, because they aren't the same thing. The amount of money you'd be expecting from a PS gamers with a "Xbox" account would be different than one from an Xbox console owner with a Xbox account.
Shareholders will do better if they KNOW and UNDERSTAND the difference.
reinking
Gold Member
I disagree. Unless you are talking about several decades out. MS has been banking on it with Game pass and other initiatives and so far it has failed and only managed to kill their console business. What makes people think Sony and Nintendo are going to follow third place Xbox off of the console cliff? They are going to grow their console business by extending it into other markets, and with MS games coming to other consoles, it will only make those consoles stronger options. I will use Nintendo as an example. I believe most people will agree that Nintendo could have made a killing in the mobile phone space if they were to bring some of their portable games to phones. Why have they not done that? Because they do not want to weaken their consoles/handhelds/hybrids. Nintendo and Sony have zero reasons to jeopardize their consoles. 25-30 years from now? Maybe?
I am curious about what you think is coming that will be better?
sendit
Member
Negative. You're actually playing on your ISP account & hardware. Hence you're part of your ISP MAU's. That's how it works. It doesn't matter if you're on a Xbox console, PC, a phone, tablet, PS5, or Switch.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Every SOT player is both a PS5 and Xbox user. I know that might make some people's heads explode. But it's how it works. You're simultaneously logged into PSN and Xbox at the same time! GASP!
So the number of "gamers" will double in one quarter when NPD gives the overall MAUs number for the month? And you don't think anybody will realize how fake and artificial that increase is?
ManaByte
Banned
Good job not reading the thread. It doesn't just carry progress. You're logged into Xbox at the same time you're logged into PSN. The game tracks your playtime on Xbox and Xbox achievements are unlocked simultaneously with PSN trophies.
This isn't like Destiny where it does a check when you switch platforms to sync. When you're playing Destiny on PC you're only logged into Steam (or the MS account whichever you use), but if you unlock an achievement in it you won't see it pop until the Bungie account syncs data when you login on a different platform.
SoT is different. You're active on Xbox and PSN at the same time because the game is running on Xbox servers.
ManaByte
Banned
How is it fake? They're legitimate players. SOT has been a top selling pre-order since it went up. You're saying those are all fake people?
And SOT won't just add players the first month, it's an on-going game. It continually increased player numbers.
You're obviously selectively reading posts. I explained it in the post you decided to selectively quote.
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dotnotbot
Member
How does suddenly counting playtime and unlocking achievements makes this any different? You know Ubisoft, EA and Rockstar have same features as well?
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Topher
Identifies as young
Sounds like he's having a mental crisis making the way from one stage to the other, doesn't he?
sendit
Member
He is stuck in a infinite while loop.
Fess
Member
Why? You should think of Xbox as Steam, that’s where Microsoft wants to be, and more. And do you have to clarify your hardware if you say you’re playing something on Steam?
They want people to say they’re playing on Xbox no matter if they play on an actual Xbox console, old or new, another console, handheld, laptop, desktop PC, mobile, tablet, TV, cloud streaming service, possibly even Mac and Quest. And they want to track it all into their monthly active user number, for PR and showing platform strength. Essentially turn Xbox into a launcher platform.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Every SOT player is both a PS5 and Xbox user. I know that might make some people's heads explode. But it's how it works. You're simultaneously logged into PSN and Xbox at the same time! GASP!
That's not how you framed the OP tho. Not the way it read, anyhow.
Then the issue is, Microsoft haven't successfully transitioned Xbox into that type of brand perception-wise yet. They know that most think of console hardware, because that's how Xbox has been positioned in the market for decades.
This shift to be console-agnostic from them is only VERY recent, especially when talking about multiplatform support for other console brands. Thinking of Xbox as a "brand" that's everywhere no matter your device type is going to take many years to cement among most of the core enthusiasts, because we know this brand's history pretty deep. Maybe the switch is easier for casuals and mainstream to make, but they aren't the ones Microsoft or Manabyte are trying to message to with this.
So it's not our fault when people say "if you're playing SOT on a PlayStation you're still playing it on an Xbox", we give a strong side-eye. It's because the idea of Xbox as a fully console-agnostic brand isn't established yet. And as long as Microsoft still has console hardware on the market, it won't be.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Varteras
Member
Sounds like he's having a mental crisis making the way from one stage to the other, doesn't he?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Feels more like Bargaining to me. Depression is next.
ManaByte
Banned
If by 2020 you consider recent, then sure. That was four years ago. It happened the day they launched cloud gaming and allowed people to access it from any device with a web browser.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So will MS also explain how their MAUs by the end of 2024 are different from what their MAUs represented in 2019? And explain why knowing the difference is necessary going forward?
ManaByte
Banned
I think every shareholder knows that 1. they spent $70 billion on ABK and 2. released games on more platforms.
phaedrus
Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
They also released Series X and S in 2020. You know, the two consoles meant to directly compete against and "sandwich" the PlayStation 5?
How's that work in creating a console-agnostic brand identity for Xbox? How was buying Zenimax with the intent of making all future games Xbox console exclusive (until this ABK stuff forced a change in plans) beneficial towards a console-agnostic brand identity? It isn't and it wasn't, that's the point.
Guarantee you they can't give a decent answer to this xD.
He prob thinks people are just playing semantics when pointing this out, but doesn't realize (or pretends to not realize) that Microsoft mean something very specific when they mention "Xbox" outright in interviews and at public-facing events. They know the optics of that name tied to console hardware (or 'hardware' going forward), that's why they refer to it in that way.
Even as recently as the Business Update, they were doing the same thing. If they wanted to talk about gaming services, they mentioned Game Pass by name. They mentioned xCloud by name. The closest they went to using Xbox in the way OP is trying to were in quotes like "every screen is an Xbox", but I don't think they ever meant that in the literal sense.
Because literally, it's ridiculous to convey that in a way most people would accept, at least anytime too soon. They're like several years away from that level of acceptance.
Astray
Member
Investors and gamers that don't have a clue as to how Phil Spencer's shell game works.
What this topic actually describes is Microsoft Gaming's MAUs, which is something that's fundamentally different from an Xbox MAU. Microsoft doesn't need to maintain a console ecosystem to keep or monetize what is now a vast majority of those MAUs.
Calling a customer that never buys MS hardware and forces Microsoft to fork out %20-30 of their revenue to a direct competitor a 'Xbox player' is extremely disingenuous.
ManaByte
Banned
Xbox Everywhere: Phil Spencer wants an Xbox app on as many devices as possible
The future of Xbox is about breaking down barriers to focus on player joy and ease of access
reinking
Gold Member
Not by choice. Xbox is failing as a console business. Do you really think if the Xbox console was leading the market Phil/MS would be pushing this narrative? No. They would be trying to push Sony out of the console space. Maybe this will work out for MS and Xbox if they still want to keep the Xbox brand around, but at this point, Xbox is becoming nothing more than an extension of Microsoft gaming.Xbox Everywhere: Phil Spencer wants an Xbox app on as many devices as possible
The future of Xbox is about breaking down barriers to focus on player joy and ease of accesswww.gamesradar.com
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fallingdove
Member
Meh.
This sort of thing may have mattered in the PS3/360 or PS4 era but this is as harmless as creating an Outlook account. It may open you up to some email marketing but people aren't going to leave PlayStation and a 100+ game digital library simply because Microsoft sends them an email offering 10% off of the Xbox series S or a free trial to GamePass.
This sort of thing may have mattered in the PS3/360 or PS4 era but this is as harmless as creating an Outlook account. It may open you up to some email marketing but people aren't going to leave PlayStation and a 100+ game digital library simply because Microsoft sends them an email offering 10% off of the Xbox series S or a free trial to GamePass.
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ManaByte
Banned
The point is they don’t need to leave that PlayStation library.
sendit
Member
Agreed. At this point. Microsoft's Activition/Blizzard/BattleNet branding is stronger than the entirety of Xbox branding.
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rickybooby87
Member
fallingdove
Member
Sure. But it's not unlike any other 3rd party publisher. You become a customer of that product, you don't automatically convert over to another ecosystem. Every microtransaction still flows through the PlayStation store, Sony still gets their cut.
I just don't see the “trojan horse” that the OP implies to have appeared.
ManaByte
Banned
Because everyone playing SOT shows up as a MAU for Xbox. This is explained multiple times in this thread but people keep making g disingenuous arguments to dismiss it and I’m done.
Topher
Identifies as young
Exactly. Microsoft is just like any other third party publisher who counts MAUs. OP is trying to make it out to be some grand "gotcha" for Microsoft with this "trojan horse" nonsense.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I think the issue here might be that it feels like you're trying to claim this is all a good thing for 'Xbox'. That a previously exclusive Xbox game is coming to the direct competition.
...when of course the reality is that it's disastrous for Xbox as a brand and a piece of hardware.
If you were talking about a software company, I'd see your point. But Xbox has attempted to position itself as a hardware manufacturer, and direct challenger to Sony. These latest moves on their part are only indicative of a grand and colossal failure by MS to successfully challenge Sony's dominance.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Oh noes! Neck beard logic.
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Moses85
Member
The Sea of Thieves beta is ending early tomorrow morning on PS5, and I posted impressions on the improvements in the PS5 client here. I've put 12 hours into the beta so far and will probably play several more today, but something happened yesterday that was eye opening and revealed the real reason MS is porting these games to PlayStation, and it's not because "people don't buy games on Xbox and they'll buy them on PS5". In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if SoT (and possibly Grounded) show up on PS+ in the future as the true reason for their existence isn't sales of the game client.
When you download SoT on the PS5 it works exactly as it does on Steam. You are REQUIRED to link or create a Microsoft account. You cannot log into the game and play without one. While most people just shrugged and assumed it was for cross progression/cross play, the shocker is that when you're playing Sea of Thieves on a PS5, you're still playing it on Xbox.
Trophies are disabled in the beta (but they're still being tracked so they'll pop on release), and I unlocked two achievements while playing. While the PS5 trophies are disabled, my Xbox mobile app notification popped up showing the achievements were unlocked - while I was playing on the PS5. Those 12 hours I played in the PS5 beta were also added to my tracked playtime on Xbox for the game.
So even though you're using a PS5 to run the game and playing with a DualSense with its haptics, you're still logged into and playing the game on the Xbox services. Meaning MS is going to count every PS user in SoT as an Xbox user when reporting MAU.
Why are they doing this? Sony explained why in 2017:
Sony Talks Shift From Hardware to Monthly Active Users; Plans to Explore Microtransactions
Sony Executives talk about the shift of the business model from hardware units to monthly active users, and the possible exploration of microtransactions.www.dualshockers.com
Every single person playing SoT (and again possibly Grounded) on PS5 can be counted as part of Xbox's MAU metric as they are technically logged in and playing on an Xbox service despite using a PS5 as the doorway to access it. That's why these GaaS games are being ported and why CoD will forever be cross platform. As CoD uses the Activision account (which is now MS) they'll be counting CoD players as "Xbox" users in the MAU metrics going forward.
Fabieter
Member
Ms can and will count it but a MAU on other platforms won't have the same value as in a ms platform. It's basically bullshit math to look better.
What's even more funny is that you think ms is gonna stick with gaas games.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Sure, but who gives a shit about MAU except for MS themselves? Why does this matter?
Unrivaledx88
Member
Yall care to much . Good for them I guess enjoy your games
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Xbox Everywhere: Phil Spencer wants an Xbox app on as many devices as possible
The future of Xbox is about breaking down barriers to focus on player joy and ease of access
So are SOT players on PS5 logging in with a username and password hosted by this "Xbox app"? Does the game literally ask PS5 owners to login or create an account through an "Xbox app" interface, networked to the "Xbox app" backend?
Oh, it doesn't? Well I guess Phil and team have a long ways to go on that front.
ManaByte
Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Microsoft account != Xbox app
ManaByte
Banned
It’s the same account!