Support NeoGAF

[Choomp]

Too much Fire Emblem, honestly, I love the series, but you really don't want too much of those guys, considering it's not really that popular with the younger and casual audiences, who tend to play Smash.
But I actually really like the representation right now, Fire Emblem and all, I just think it's better for the audience as a whole to just have one or two FE characters in,

 

[Coffee Dog]

Palutena? Unique? Her default moves include

Just gonna stop you there

you're immediately dismissing what makes her unique; her customizable moveset. That is her whole gimmick.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Zelda hasn't had anyone since 2001, but it also had five characters in Melee.

I mentioned that.

But still. Mario went through one game with no new character (it actually lost a character) and then came back with 2 more (and that lost character back). Zelda goes 2 games now without any characters added or removed and it's getting to a point where it's starting to be bland. The Zelda characters are kind of boring. The closest thing to a new comer has been a remake of Young Link as Toon Link, and even then he plays basically the same (or at least as much as any other does between Melee and Brawl).

Zelda needs Impa. It needs Ganon. Next game they need to not add a Fire Emblem or Mario character and instead let Zelda get two more characters. Zelda deserves way more than it gets in Smash.

I guess it could be worse. Pokemon gets a rough time every game as they lost 2 characters every game (but 1 of those was gained back). Makes it hard to get attached to any of the Pokemon fighters except Pikachu. But that's just kind of the nature of the Pokemon series. Out with the old, in with the new is how it rolls. At least with Lucario now, there's some stability with a still popular "old" Pokemon.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Just gonna stop you there

you're immediately dismissing what makes her unique; her customizable moveset. That is her whole gimmick.

Were those moves particularly interesting though? I mean I like the Jump Glide, but none of them screamed "this is a defining move for Palutena." I'd sooner ask Sakurai to make her customs less different and focus on making four really, really great moves.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Too much Fire Emblem, honestly, I love the series, but you really don't want too much of those guys, considering it's not really that popular with the younger and casual audiences, who tend to play Smash.
But I actually really like the representation right now, Fire Emblem and all, I just think it's better for the audience as a whole to just have one or two FE characters in,

FE only really has 3 characters. Lucina is just a bonus. Fire Emblem, like Pokemon, has a really diverse cast of memorable characters that span over several decades, that refresh with every entry, and the only way to really fairly represent that is to have more characters than maybe the series size necessarily warrants (not the case with Pokemon though).

I think Fire Emblem is in a good place with Smash characters. A nice cross section of the start of the series (Marth), the middle of the series, and the first 3D entry (Ike) and the newest entry and the one that saved the series (Robin). Plus, Marth, Ike and Robin are three very distinct characters with distinct movesets and Ike and Robin couldn't really be easily replaced with another character. I think in Smash 5, Fire Emblem won't get a new character, the best bet will probably be a mild de-cloning of Lucina.

 

[Coffee Dog]

The only game where Impa has mattered even slightly is skyward sword. Please try again, guys.

Tingle is a character who has been in several games, is practically forced upon the player in MM and WW, and has his own spinoff series. Way better.

 

[Toxi]

Makes it hard to get attached to any of the Pokemon fighters except Pikachu.

And Jigglypuff.

Thank God they'll never cut the puff.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Palutena? Unique? Her default moves include a counter, a generic recovery, a generic projectile, and a shield

She's a boring character.

That's why she's unique in the way you can customize her not to have the generic default moveset :v

As for me If smash 5 were in my hands I'd add

Inkling
Isabelle
Captain Toad
Hades
Bandana waddle dee
Wonder Red
and Rhythm heaven Marshal

 

[Slamtastic]

Ganon would be "too big" like Ridley going by Sakurai logic.

 

[Draxal]

The Wars series has to be by far the most underrepresented ( 1 lame assist trophy, 1 regular trophy identical to the stupid assist trophy, no stages, not even any fucking music).

The series started on NES in 1988, and has spanned 8 systems and 12 titles. Surely that warrants at least a stage, and come the fuck on, an advance wars playable character would be amazing.

Which wars character would you use for Smash? I really can't think of one with a worthwhile move set, as the titular prospect for advance wars (andy) is not even popular in that game.

 

[L Thammy]

Palutena? Unique? Her default moves include a counter, a generic recovery, a generic projectile, and a shield

While I'll agree that she's boring, you're really abusing the word "generic" if you're applying it to Autoreticle.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Ganon would be "too big" like Ridley going by Sakurai logic.

Ganon's smallest incarnation is LTTP, and he's still the size of 2-3 links. Dudes huge.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Which wars character would you use for Smash? I really can't think of one with a worthwhile move set, as the titular prospect for advance wars (andy) is not even popular in that game.

Sami, obviously. Her whole deal is that she was an infantry before she was a CO. She could reuse a lot of Snake's moveset, and it would make perfect sense.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

And Jigglypuff.

Thank God they'll never cut the puff.

I... think they possibly could, especially if Sakurai isn't at the helm. She was close to being killed in Brawl, which is why I never assume she's safe anymore.

Ganon would be "too big" like Ridley going by Sakurai logic.

Ganon can be scaled down without it looking ridiculous. Ridley cannot.

 

[Melter]

They haven't added a new Zelda rep since melee (Toon Link is basically Young Link's replacement), I think that series deserved someone new.
I think Metroid could've used a new rep...but I don't know who would "fit" the bill.

Dark Samus? or maybe some of the other hunters from prime, or a space pirate character

 

[Ryce]

I'm still kinda urked that we got screwed out of Rhythm Heaven representation beyond Smash Run & some trophies. Though I have a gut feeling that will be rectified via DLC.

Rhythm Heaven is definitely the most underrepresented IP in Smash Bros. It's a first-party, critically acclaimed, multi-million-selling series, and all it has to show for that is an enemy exclusive to the 3DS version and a few trophies.

It's also the only top 10 Nintendo series in Japan that doesn't have a character in Smash Bros.

Men
1. Super Mario
2. The Legend of Zelda
3. Pokémon
4. Kirby
5. Donkey Kong
6. Super Smash Bros.
7. Mother
8. Fire Emblem
9. Metroid
10. F-Zero

Women
1. Super Mario
2. Pokémon
3. Kirby
4. Donkey Kong
5. Animal Crossing
6. The Legend of Zelda
7. Rhythm Heaven
8. Super Smash Bros.
9. Pikmin
10. Fire Emblem

 

[gerudoman]

Kid Icarus Uprising's representation is definitely excessive. I'd be fine with three fighters from the series if those were Pit, Palutena and Hades, but giving Dark Pit a separate slot is simply unjustifiable. And almost 60 trophies, most of them ripped from Uprising itself? Come on...

And this is coming from someone who thinks Kid Icarus Uprising is one of the best handheld games ever made.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Sami, obviously. Her whole deal is that she was an infantry before she was a CO. She could reuse a lot of Snake's moveset, and it would make perfect sense.

how would re-using Snakes moveset make sense? there's no mines, grenades or cyphers in the games, and the Nikita analog wouldn't be moveable.

 

[Toxi]

As for me If smash 5 were in my hands I'd add

Inkling
Isabelle
Captain Toad
Hades
Bandana waddle dee
Wonder Red
and Rhythm heaven Marshal

Oh hi Sakurai

 

[Coffee Dog]

Kid Icarus Uprising's representation is definitely excessive. I'd fine with three fighters from the series if those were Pit, Palutena and Hades, but giving Dark Pit a separate slot is simply unjustifiable. And almost 60 trophies, most of them ripped from Uprising itself? Come on...

And this is coming from someone who thinks Kid Icarus Uprising is one of the best handheld games ever made.

does anyone honestly think dark pit is sticking around next game? Kid icarus will be dead as hell, so popularity won't matter, and he was a roster filler anyway.

Kid Icarus representation is probably just going to be pit and palutena from now on, and that's fine for a series with three games.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

I mentioned that.

But still. Mario went through one game with no new character (it actually lost a character) and then came back with 2 more (and that lost character back). Zelda goes 2 games now without any characters added or removed and it's getting to a point where it's starting to be bland. The Zelda characters are kind of boring. The closest thing to a new comer has been a remake of Young Link as Toon Link, and even then he plays basically the same (or at least as much as any other does between Melee and Brawl).

Zelda needs Impa. It needs Ganon. Next game they need to not add a Fire Emblem or Mario character and instead let Zelda get two more characters. Zelda deserves way more than it gets in Smash.

I guess it could be worse. Pokemon gets a rough time every game as they lost 2 characters every game (but 1 of those was gained back). Makes it hard to get attached to any of the Pokemon fighters except Pikachu. But that's just kind of the nature of the Pokemon series. Out with the old, in with the new is how it rolls. At least with Lucario now, there's some stability with a still popular "old" Pokemon.

Impa is the most boring Zelda character they could possibly pick. Tingle and Pig Ganon are far more interesting. Also, anybody who thinks that Dixie would be a Diddy clone because they're both small monkeys is sadly mistaken. Personally, I would prefer King K. Rool, but Dixie also brings a lot to the table. Christ, I'd be happy with Funky Kong at this point. Just give the damn series some proper representation. It's popular in America. It's popular in Japan. I don't think it's fair to say that Sakurai "hates" DK, but the franchise hasn't been treated well.

*Conspiracy mode*

Maybe they're holding back DK content as DLC on purpose because they know that the fans would buy it.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Donkey Kong is shamefully underrepresented. Add Dixie Kong and King K. Rool as playable fighters, and Rambi as an Assist Trophy. The fact that Gogoat is an assist but Rambi isn't is so... absurd.

Oh yeah, and the music sucks. It would have been nice to hear a new Fear Factory remix instead of yet another arrangement of DK Island Swing.

Huh? I'm pretty sure that Gogoat is pokeball pokemon.

Spoiler

Borrowed the pics from the Smash OT, hope they don't mind

Actually, I don't mind!

Smash threads kept popping up so I wonder if it's a sign that we are getting smash DLC.

 

[Draxal]

Sami, obviously. Her whole deal is that she was an infantry before she was a CO. She could reuse a lot of Snake's moveset, and it would make perfect sense.

I was hoping for the Medium Tank myself, I was always a fan of the Daytona car (Hornet) being in Fighters Megamix.

 

[Zalman]

I've been hoping for an Advance Wars character for some time, but like with F-Zero, there needs to be a new game first. I honestly think some of the most hardcore Nintendo fans don't even know who Andy is.

By the way, Isabelle is absolutely happening. I fear she'll be a Villager clone though.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

does anyone honestly think dark pit is sticking around next game? Kid icarus will be dead as hell, so popularity won't matter, and he was a roster filler anyway.

Kid Icarus is probably just going to be pit and palutena, and that's fine for a series with three games.

Dark Pit uses exactly the same model, animations and stats as Pit (except for his taunts and final smash). He's the cloniest clone the series has ever had. He'll stick around, if not just because of the ease of re-texturing Pit and making 4 animations.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Surprised Ghirahim or Midna/Wolf Link didn't make it in. Generally speaking, I'm pretty fine with most franchise representation. Still too many doubles though.

Lucina and Marth should've just been alternative skins. Does Pit really need a Dark Pit? Dr. Mario could just be a Mario skin (because no way do I approve of that Final Smash NOT being in the game).

Beyond that, It's pretty okay. The biggest omission is Wonderful 101 or Bayonetta. Both would've been amazing.

 

[leroidys]

Which wars character would you use for Smash? I really can't think of one with a worthwhile move set, as the titular prospect for advance wars (andy) is not even popular in that game.

I don't really understand the question. Andy would be the obvious choice as he's more or less the posterboy of the series, but there's half a dozen that would work, or maybe even a combination of CEOs as a single fighter. How would he be a problem?

Anyway, most of my post was focused on how little representation the series has in any aspect of the game, not just playable characters.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Huh? I'm pretty sure that Gogoat is pokeball pokemon.

Pokémon also assist the player. I didn't use the word "assist" as a pronoun.

 

[L Thammy]

Smash threads kept popping up so I wonder if it's a sign that we are getting smash DLC.

Mods should check out everyone who poses a Smash thread. I'm pretty sure 90% of the are Nintendo plants.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Surprised Ghirahim or Midna/Wolf Link didn't make it in. Generally speaking, I'm pretty fine with most franchise representation. Still too many doubles though.

Lucina and Marth should've just been alternative skins. Does Pit really need a Dark Pit? Dr. Mario could just be a Mario skin (because no way do I approve of that Final Smash NOT being in the game).

Beyond that, It's pretty okay.

Doc cannot be an alt skin. The reason he isn't an alt skin is because Sakurai thought it would disappoint Melee fans and fans of Doc to make him just a costume, so they decided no vet will be a costume.

Besides, if you're doing 90% of the hard part of making a character... what's the reason to not just spend a week doing some quick edits and having an entirely new character?

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Diddy kong with a ponytail prioritized over a unique character with a personality that represents an actual new game (uprising)

Please no.

Dixie is "Diddy with a ponytail" as much as Wario is "fat Mario". They could represent her that way, but she has far more potential than that.

Dixie doesn't have remotely interesting moveset potential. She could be a neat semi-clone, but Sakurai doesn't seem interested in her in the slightest, and I just don't see what she could do that's different or interesting. The DK series deserves a good newcomer, but I think Dixie would be the most boring choice possible.

How does she not have an interesting moveset potential? The things she could do with her ponytail alone are interesting enough to consider her. She's got as much potential as DK had back in 1999, and they made him work.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Cranky, Funky, and k rool are all better choices than Dixie. She is Diddy with eyelashes and a floaty jump. Unless they want to make an entirely unique fast chimpanzee moveset (looool) she'd be a clone if she got in at all.

 

[Ryce]

Besides, if you're doing 90% of the hard part of making a character... what's the reason to not just spend a week doing some quick edits and having an entirely new character?

People are too hung up on "slots" and the nonsensical notion that turning a costume into a character takes an astronomical effort (even though Sakurai has said otherwise).

 

[A Link to the Past]

how would re-using Snakes moveset make sense? there's no mines, grenades or cyphers in the games, and the Nikita analog wouldn't be moveable.

There are no grenades or mines in gameplay, but if you saw an Advance Wars character using them, would you cry foul? She could even stretch herself into Battalion Wars territory which I'm pretty sure uses mines.

Also, the Cypher would be replaced by a rope ladder hanging from a T Copter that she grabs :v

I was hoping for the Medium Tank myself, I was always a fan of the Daytona car (Hornet) being in Fighters Megamix.

Personally, my desires are as such: two Advance Wars characters. One character would be Sami, since she's the most hands-on of all the COs with respect to combat, and a trio character of sorts. This trio would let you start as a Mech, turn into a Recon, and then become a Tank. The character you choose to play as would be one of 8 COs in the background, which would include Andy, Max, Nell, Olaf, Sonja, Eagle, Sturm, Lash.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

An Advanced Wars character would have to be Andy. No series has ever been represented by a secondary character from that series, it's always the main character.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Does Wario even shoulder tackle in Smash?

Yes, he did in Brawl.

 

[Nightbird]

We need more Villians in Smash Bros.

Grihaim and Hades from the Top of my Head are some you'd want to include. I don't know any big Enemies in Metroid beyond Dark Samus and Ridley, but i think that Series has some wich could be playable.


I don't like that this is turning more and more in to the Party of the good Guys. Give me more Enemies. I'll take even a smaller roster for that (as long as the Villager stays )

 

[Coffee Dog]

The biggest problem with Dixie is that she isn't a good character. Pretty much every other DK rep available has a more fun and memorable personality and design. She's not bad, but she's just sorta there.

Dixie is "Diddy with a ponytail" as much as Wario is "fat Mario". They could represent her that way, but she has far more potential than that.



How does she not have an interesting moveset potential? The things she could do with her ponytail alone are interesting enough to consider her. She's got as much potential as DK had back in 1999, and they made him work.

What things could she do with her ponytail that Diddy doesn't already use his tail for? Fly and that's it?

 

[A Link to the Past]

An Advanced Wars character would have to be Andy. No series has ever been represented by a secondary character from that series, it's always the main character.

Robin is arguable - from the sounds of it, Robin was added because the more main character of Chrom was not as interesting as Robin. I mean, if we use the cover, the cover tells us that Lucina and Chrom are more important.

That said, generally it's most important to include the character that would make for the most interesting character, and I think Sakurai agrees.

Yes, he did in Brawl.

Debatable. :v

EDIT: As far as Dixie's ponytail, she could use it as a grab move that lets her carry her opponent. She could also have a throw that rolled the opponent on the ground. They could even let her attack during her hover flight.

 

[L Thammy]

An Advanced Wars character would have to be Andy. No series has ever been represented by a secondary character from that series, it's always the main character.

It could also be the generic, cartoonish soldiers. Those have been around way before COs.

 

[Slamtastic]

The difference between Ridley and Ganon is that Metroid doesn't have a villain rep but Zelda does, along with Ganon already being represented by the final smash.

Plus I'd rather see them actually include another Zelda character from a specific game (although that might just be a problem of the Zelda series itself and its formulaic nature and gimping of its own villains so Ganon/dorf can show up for nostalgia).

I'd rather see Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, etc before an alternate version of a character who's in the game, who is themself already in the game (FSmash), and who would have to be shrunk down.

 

[Draxal]

An Advanced Wars character would have to be Andy. No series has ever been represented by a secondary character from that series, it's always the main character.

And I don't think they would want to bring in Andy, Sami does make much more sense but you're right in her being a secondary character.

I'm still rooting for light tank or medium tank. Can have Max shoot the main cannon as his neutral, andy repariing the tank as his down special, and Sami rocket launcher as the neutral/forward smash.

Robin is arguable - from the sounds of it, Robin was added because the more main character of Chrom was not as interesting as Robin. I mean, if we use the cover, the cover tells us that Lucina and Chrom are more important.

That said, generally it's most important to include the character that would make for the most interesting character, and I think Sakurai agrees.

Robin's much more important in Awakening, it's just you know they have to hide the main character because you can change appearance/gender bit.

 

[A Link to the Past]

How would the Tank grab?

 

[L Thammy]

How would the Tank grab?

Sometimes there's a guy popping out of the tank. He could do the grabbing.

 

[kewlmyc]

I kinda agree that Kid Icarus has too much stuff considering there's only 3 games total and most people don't know the franchise at all, but the smash run enemies can be explained by Sakurai just copying enemies from Uprising over. Adding Palutena was for Uprising giving her an actual moveset and representing the game for bringing new light into a dead franchise. Dark Pit was an easy clone to make so that's why he's in. If they start cutting characters for Smash 5, then he's gonna most likely be the first booted (I actually play him too ;_. It does have way too many items though.

DK really needs more love considering he's still getting his own games and they're really good/successful. Sega also needs to stop being stingy and let Nintendo remix more Sonic songs and let us play as a not blue Sonic for once.

At the end of the day though, it's clear we're starting to run out of characters to add.

 

[The Bankslammer]

Only Donkey Kong really stands out to me as being relatively "underrepresented," to be honest. He had an extremely successful series revival between Brawl and Smash 4, with a port and sequel in the works during its development, and didn't really have a whole lot to show for it. And then there's the matter of the music selection on top of that, lol (though honestly music selection was a pretty weak showing all around).

Um... also, Rhythm Heaven having only one enemy and nothing else feels off for being a nearly decade-old, still living, internally produced series, but at this point we pretty much know it was meant to have more so whatever.

Other than that, I can't think of any particularly glaring omissions. I mean, there are some things I wanted, sure, but I don't believe that's reflective of it being "underrepresented".

Also as an Advance Wars fan, an Advance Wars character having a moveset scrapped together from another character when they could have a cool, brand new moveset representative of the series (something involving building units, perhaps) sounds extremely disappointing.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Robin's much more important in Awakening, it's just you know they have to hide the main character because you can change appearance/gender bit.

But Sami also appears in Dual Strike, whereas Andy does not.

 

[Ryce]

An Advanced Wars character would have to be Andy. No series has ever been represented by a secondary character from that series, it's always the main character.

Wii Fit Trainer is technically a secondary (arguably tertiary) character. You play as a Mii in Wii Fit, and the anthropomorphic Balance Board is officially considered the "mascot." Sakurai even joked back in 2008 that despite Wii Fit's popularity he couldn't make a playable character out of the Balance Board.

Also, I know this is an uncommon opinion, but I think the Wars series would be best represented by chibi soldiers like in Captain Rainbow (and in the Smash Bros. Assist Trophy). Famicom Wars has existed since 1988, but Andy didn't show up until 2001. The soldiers would represent the entire series.

 

[IntelliHeath]

The biggest problem with Dixie is that she isn't a good character. Pretty much every other DK rep available has a more fun and memorable personality and design. She's not bad, but she's just sorta there.

Well, I think there are some DK reps that are worse than Dixie Kong. For example, Kiddy Kong?

 

[Draxal]

Sometimes there's a guy popping out of the tank. He could do the grabbing.

That and you could have Andy make robotic modifications to suddenly have an arms appear out of no where.

Smash isn't 100% faithful to its source material.