Support NeoGAF

[NeonZ]

The game needs more villains. We have...two? We lost Mewtwo and Wolf, but are getting the former back. No Ridley. As someone who only plays villains, my options are limited.

One of the final co-op event matches puts the player against all villains in the game. To fill in the line up, they added several pallet swaps (Dark Link, Dark Metaknight, Dark Samus). Now that I think about it though, they didn't throw in the Koopalings there...

 

[A Link to the Past]

Darkrai is way eviler than Mewtwo

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Darkrai is way eviler than Mewtwo

Mewtwo doesn't have goofy little Gardevoir legs though. And his signature move isn't completely and totally broken to the point of being banned.

Checkmate

 

[WrenchNinja]

Darkrai is way eviler than Mewtwo

How is he evil? He's just defending himself with his nightmares.

 

[Azuran]

Mewtwo doesn't have goofy little Gardevoir legs though. And his signature move isn't completely and totally broken to the point of being banned.

Checkmate

But Dark Void is not banned in the official format

 

[NHarmonic.]

Smash 5 needs

King K Rool and Dixie for DK
Waluigi or Jimmy T for Warik
Shy Guy or Birdo for Yoshi
Fucking Ridley for Metroid

Mario universe has ENOUGH reps, it doesn't need more.

I'm still waiting for Kumatora from Mother 3 :C

 

[kewlmyc]

Add Bayonetta and be done with it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Mario universe has ENOUGH reps, it doesn't need more.

I'm still waiting for Kumatora from Mother 3 :C

I don't really think there's a limit to how many reps Mario has. Like Pokemon... it's just so massive it could basically be 50% of the roster and still have room for more.

As for Kumatora, Mother was lucky to get 2 characters, even then that was a little much for a 3 game dead series with mediocre sales.

 

[TriniTrin]

I always wanted an advanced wars CO in smash. Seems cool!

 

[leroidys]

I don't think any series is overrepresented so long as their new reps are considerably unique and fun. So for me, the addition of Bowser Jr doesn't seem like "over-repping" mario, while the addition of Dr. Mario certainly does...

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I don't think any series is overrepresented so long as their new reps are considerably unique and fun. So for me, the addition of Bowser Jr doesn't seem like "over-repping" mario, while the addition of Dr. Mario certainly does...

Doctor Mario is the only Mario character in the entire of the Smash series to not be a "main series" character (appears in spin offs, is used as locations for race tracks, etc). He's unique in that regard, and no real other character could quite fit that niche unless you go out to weird offbeat characters like Foreman Spike.

Doc was also going to be in this game no matter what happened (whether as an alt or a character), so they took the extra day and a half to re-rig Luigi's animations for Mario and made a nice bit of fan service for Melee fans.

I'm sorry if you dislike entirely bonus content put in to please long time fans of the series at a miniscule development cost.

 

[leroidys]

Doctor Mario is the only Mario character in the entire of the Smash series to not be a "main series" character (appears in spin offs, is used as locations for race tracks, etc). He's unique in that regard, and no real other character could quite fit that niche unless you go out to weird offbeat characters like Foreman Spike.

Doc was also going to be in this game no matter what happened (whether as an alt or a character), so they took the extra day and a half to re-rig Luigi's animations for Mario and made a nice bit of fan service for Melee fans.

I'm sorry if you dislike entirely bonus content put in to please long time fans of the series at a miniscule development cost.

The poison responses to people not enthralled by clone characters is so fucking tired, and 90% of your reasoning is at best conjecture, and mostly just completely made up. Drop the attitude please. Moreover, you completely missed my point.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The poison responses to people not enthralled by clone characters is so fucking tired, and 90% of your reasoning is at best conjecture, and mostly just completely made up. Drop the attitude please.

Doctor Mario is my favorite character in this game and I think clone characters are a great addition to the series. And there's no such thing as too many Mario characters unless we start seeing random Koopas being added, which we won't.

And no, it's not made up. Melee fan service + low dev time is literally the exact reason Doc is in the game. And he was either in the game as a costume or in the game as a character. There wasn't a scenario where he wasn't in the game.
On why Doc isn't a costume, straight from Sakurai

When talking about Dr. Mario, including his abilities he had a lot of individuality in Melee compared to Mario. Also there were fans that said things like 'I'm a doctor!', or 'A back-alley doctor!' when they chose the black color config. When you have such fans and you just change the character-model and leave it at that and it becomes the same as Mario, we thought people might get angry

On low dev time + being in the game no matter what as costumes, again, from Sakurai

There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics. Since their functionality had differences, forms were separated from each other. However, it was vital that this didn’t increase the required man-hours. Some relative tuning was sufficient as it wasn’t necessary to create balancing from scratch.

I just made it up.

 

[MillionVolts]

But Mewtwo is an abomination of nature, despises humanity, has no soul or heart, and the final boss of Red/Blue and Pokemon Stadium. From the Pokemon Wiki


Sounds like a villain to me.

He's generally considered as much of a villain as Pokemon could have in Smash (since Giovanni isn't going to go out there and fight any time soon).

Mewtwo is a "Frankenstein's monster." Meaning that what it really wants is friendship and acceptance, but it grows angry and violent when it's denied those things. Its trophy description in Smash 4 sums up the Pokémon perfectly:

Created from modified Mew DNA, Mewtwo was designed to be the ultimate Pokémon. It didn't take on any of Mew's kinder traits and only uses its intelligence to destroy its enemies. Or...so it seems. Perhaps it just feels frightened or even tormented, and that's why it lashes out. Whatever the reason, Mewtwo is not to be messed with.

Personally I think the closest thing the mainline games have had to a villain that's a Pokémon (barring any ones used by villain teams) is Groudon/Kyogre.

 

[leroidys]

Doctor Mario is my favorite character in this game and I think clone characters are a great addition to the series. And there's no such thing as too many Mario characters unless we start seeing random Koopas being added, which we won't.

Obviously. Why else would you have gone apoplectic when I barely suggested that he wasn't the most meaningful addition to the roster.

And no, it's not made up. Melee fan service + low dev time is literally the exact reason Doc is in the game. And he was either in the game as a costume or in the game as a character. There wasn't a scenario where he wasn't in the game.
On why Doc isn't a costume, straight from Sakurai


On low dev time + being in the game no matter what as costumes, again, from Sakurai


I just made it up.

You're still missing the point. The point is that he's a filler character that is almost identical to an existing one from a franchise that already encompasses 20% of the roster. Other clones like Lucas or Wolf add a lot more (in my opinion, and note that I am not attacking you for your OPINION as you are me.)

You made up that he was "going to be in the game no matter what", and including him certainly did take dev time. The part about it being him or Spike and it being a completely inarguable, foregone conclusion is not really something I would call a fact. The part that you quoted Sakurai is where he's saying it shouldn't take dev time beyond what it already took to put him in the game- to give him his own square on the selection screen essentially.

 

[thegirlleastlikelyto]

Just roll with it

No, seriously who believes this? Cause I don't think it was people able to purchase the Super Scope or the Yoshi game at the time.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Oh, just thought of something for Captain Toad, he could also have a minecart as a Side B attack, and a cannon as a Down B.

 

[NHarmonic.]

I don't really think there's a limit to how many reps Mario has. Like Pokemon... it's just so massive it could basically be 50% of the roster and still have room for more.

As for Kumatora, Mother was lucky to get 2 characters, even then that was a little much for a 3 game dead series with mediocre sales.

There should be a "moral limit", just for variety's sake alone. The mario lore is over-represented, so any addition of other lores (as in, characters from multiple worlds and series) into the game is far more benefitial than adding, koopa, goomba, waluigi, daisy or the whole bowser army. It's enough.

And he actually added Lucas in brawl, no fucks given there and could've been the same here but i guess we needed Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit.

 

[BGBW]

And he actually added Lucas in brawl, no fucks given there and could've been the same here but i guess we needed Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit.

Clones didn't replace anyone. If anyone actually got hard done by it's Alph seeing as he was a alt costume that wasn't upgraded to selectable character.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Oh, just thought of something for Captain Toad, he could also have a minecart as a Side B attack, and a cannon as a Down B.

That moveset surly reminded me of someone. I'm not sure if he should go down on the path.