-COOLIO-
The Everyman
damn straight, and now we have the shiznit to do it. where ma hellbats at.
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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
damn straight, and now we have the shiznit to do it. where ma hellbats at.
EscapingJail
Member
Login and add me as a friend and I'll invite you. EscapingJail#1496 (It's a battletag FR)
Or you can find it by going to the Groups/Clans search and typing in "Neogaf"
Also all this is assuming you are on NA.
EscapingJail
Member
I think most people associate Zerg with "the swarm" things like massive amounts of units coming at you all the time at very little cost to the zerg.
Cheap units like the Zergling and Roach and also cost effective units like the Broodlord, Swarm Host, and even the Infestor(Infested marine) all feel most Zerglike than a unit that deals linear splash damage.
Though I won't argue with you on the fact that a Lurker is a stronger unit than the swarm host.
Edit: I'm well versed in BW history and the usage of lurkers.
They split a good unit into two units for no reason just like the Wraith became Viking/Banshee, the Lurker could be Banes/SwarmHost.
Zerg already shits out too many units and banes are old.
This is really only because Blizzard pushed them so hard in that direction with SC2 though.
And frankly its really bad for watchability in SC2 when zerg shits out 100 free units, especially for the casual viewer. Its never good when the casters are screaming "I can't even tell whats going on!".
That's all true if you are talking about the lore of Starcraft, but I always associated multiplayer zerg with just barely scraping by and hanging on for dear life for 15 minutes, then running wild with ultras and defilers. Lurkers, zerglings, mutas, and defilers have always been the defining zerg units for me. BW zerg was so razor focused in it's unit balance, every single unit had its place and there was barely any overlap.
vicissitudes
Banned
Subscribed. Why is IEM on so late? Are there any SC2 events that play at a reasonable time in the US?
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Its European, so its on at a decent time there
MLG is in like 1 week so that will be in decent time.
EscapingJail
Member
The wraith is nowhere near as good as it's viking or banshee counterparts (aside from speed).
Banes don't really fit the mold here, aside from splash damage, what else do they share? One is a low tech kamikaze unit, the other is a siege unit that is kind of expensive and higher up on the tech tree. The swarmhost is a better siege unit on paper (range). The Lurker is a better splash unit, otherwise they pretty much serve the same purpose.
If you guys haven't played much HOTS beta the swarm hosts do alot of damn damage PvZ.
Zergs don't really scrape by anymore haha. But yes I agree with what you are saying here. But you can't really blame blizzard here for trying to make a "New" but still balanced game that isn't BW 2.0
EscapingJail
Member
oops dbl post
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Besides campaign, I'm not particularly interested in SC2 right now (hooked on Dota), but I'm gonna buy the CE of this anyway because I NEED it to match my WoL one, so I can have a full set by the time LotV releases.
:/
At least I have ~$50 in Amazon credit to pay for most of it.
:/
At least I have ~$50 in Amazon credit to pay for most of it.
They're in that boosted medivac you never got the glimpse of, now wrecking your shit, yo!
Crimsonlink
Member
Ok here it is, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also injecting some of my comments/opinions on the units.
'
Terran
New units
Widow Mines: Requires Factory and you can reactor them out 2 at a time. Costs and build time in OP. Has a burrow research for faster planting of mines to 1 second. Has a longass reload time so its best to reposition them in that time. Does 150 damage +30 vs shield and can oneshot Stalkers. Does AOE damage as well but I dunno how much.
Hellbats: Requires Factory and Armory along with the Transformation Servos upgrade researched on tech lab. Has more HP than Hellion but shorter range, buffs attack as well. Good for roasting workers or Zealots/Zerglings/Marines.
Improved units
Medivacs: Have Ignite Afterburners, cooldown based ability where Medivacs can boost in speed and drop/escape easier than ever. Makes harassing easier for Terran
Raven: Seeker missile does not require research and does its usual 100 damage with AOE except now the missile suspends in the air for 5 seconds and the unit targeted is color coded red. If you get that unit outside the range of the Seeker Missile then the missile fizzles out and you made the Raven waste energy. Expect this to be tweaked a bit.
Reaper: No more bonus damage to light. Does 4 per pistol so 8 damage altogether. Does not require techlab anymore and can be reactored out. Reapers are very popular openers in Beta. Not sure about its purpose after early game. Reapers also heal out of combat. I believe the high ground vision was taken out but I'm unsure.
Tanks: Siege Tank research is no longer required. Tanks aren't that good except in TvT anymore anyways imo.
Thor: Taken out its Cannon research. Has a new mode for dealing with air with cannons on its back. Better against single targets such as Broodlords and Battlecruisers. Does not require research.
Protoss
New Units
Tempest: Capital ship with the longest range of any unit. Balanced by slow shooting and movement. VERY ANTI MASSIVE UNIT!
Oracle: Harass unit made in the Stargate, has detection as well to make Stargate play viable. Kills workers and low health units VERY fast if they have the energy. Low health is its weak point.
Mothership Core: Best ACE in Toss's army imo. Decent speed and has Timewarp which slows down all units in its green field. Can cause terrible terrible damage on Bio with Timewarp and Storms. T_T Can Recall units when Toss overcommits for 100 energy. Also has a cannon mode for energy for a few seconds, makes early harass very potent or for defense and gives vision to units on low ground, made Blink Stalkers very painful to deal with.
Improved Units/buildings
Blink: Research time was nerfed thanks to Mothership Core and Stalkers.
Nexus:Has a photon overcharge which makes the Nexus like a Planetary Fortress for a few seconds and has a high range for a sizable energy cost.
Void Rays: Has the new Prismatic Alignment ability that does bonus vs Armored. I don't know the exact amount but it makes VR good vs all Armored and makes making engaging with Toss air hard since Vikings and Corruptors are armored. Thankfully it is timed and does not do bonus vs other unit types.
Pheonix: Has Range 6 attack now and has a +2 range upgrade.
I believe that is it for Toss. Oh and Carrier are still in and have leash range on Interceptors which make them more dangerous but since they alike to Battlecruiser, don't expect too much out of this.
Lets just say that Toss air has been buffed a crazy amount, expect nerfs in the future as the game evolves.
Zerg
New Units
Swarm Host: Has Burrow automatically and acts as a siege unit for Zerg. Spawns Locusts which are free, so Brood Lords under the ground. Has an upgrade that make Locusts last longer. Very slow but has decent HP. Not a lot of Pros using them from what I've seen.
Vipers: Spellcaster unit that has no attack but lots of spells. Blinding Cloud, reduces range of units under its area to 1. Makes Tanks and most ranged units useless unless they move out of the cloud which sucks for Tanks. Abduction is another spell of Vipers which can steal any units from their position, makes Tank positioning useless. Consumption is the last of the Viper's ability, allows the Viper to drain HP from FRIENDLY buildings to regain Energy.
So yeah Vipers make Tank play very hard but Vipers come out at the Hive tech so it is lategame tech along with the Swarm Host.
Improved units/buildings
Hydralisks: Faster off creep, enough said.
Spore Crawler: Does not require Evolution chamber
Ultralisk: Does 35 flat damage to everything. Makes Bio really hard to play, Ultralisk with Vipers is a big pain for Bio and Mech Terrans. Will probably be adjusted after launch or new strats are figured out.
I think that about covers everything. Please add anything I'm missing.
SillyEskimo
Member
Thanks for the summary!
I'm excited to play StarCraft again. I quit playing months ago when it became apparent that Zerg was easy mode against Terran. I toyed around with switching races, but I figured I'd just set it aside until HoTS came out. I'll take a long while to get back into good playing form, I'm sure.
Viking is dumb. Banshee is dumb. Wraith was perfect. Lurkers perfect. SC2sux.
FANTASY IN CODE S
The guy who always make the useless valkyries in BroodWar? Irony!
Haunted
Member
The way IEM is set up, Intel has them doing the tournaments during trade shows.
So when CeBit is on, IEM is on.
I... will... not... break.
But didn't this happen only after T/P realized they can get two bases off the back of 1 marine or 1 cannon? It's not like Zerg has a say on that first expansion.
But didn't this happen only after T/P realized they can get two bases off the back of 1 marine or 1 cannon? It's not like Zerg has a say on that first expansion.
Yes you will.
TheThunder
Member
With Chris Metzen on the helm, this will surely be the Citizen Kane of video games.
It's steadying out, but it's not as big as it used to be during 2011 when SC2 was king, then came LoL and the free MOBAs, stagnant match ups and boring as hell meta really hurt the viewership a lot.
Didn't pay attention to BW competitive scene until after SC2 actually but let's hope so.
For the most of 2012 the metagame in the pro scene really dragged down and everything was pretty much by the numbers in the most dull way possible and that really what made me stop watching since the end of last year.
It's steadying out, but it's not as big as it used to be during 2011 when SC2 was king, then came LoL and the free MOBAs, stagnant match ups and boring as hell meta really hurt the viewership a lot.
Didn't pay attention to BW competitive scene until after SC2 actually but let's hope so.
For the most of 2012 the metagame in the pro scene really dragged down and everything was pretty much by the numbers in the most dull way possible and that really what made me stop watching since the end of last year.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
A new era... I can't believe we're gg'ing out of WoL... I'm almost crying here
I'll read the OP and the posts when I get back from work. I love you all, SC2GAF <3!!!
I'll read the OP and the posts when I get back from work. I love you all, SC2GAF <3!!!
Oh wow, so not only are hydralisks viable now, but ultralisks too? Neat.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
I won't even touch the MP probably and still have the CE preordered and my hype ready!
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I'm really worried about how this story is gonna turn out.
What I expect:
- More skill-based gameplay, more spectacle. By the looks of the new units and streams, that seems to be the case
- Glorious single player missions. Truthly the best aspect of Wings of Liberty.
- Shit plot and story. Because the butchering of Kerrigan's character and pussification of the Zerg can only go downwards. The whole "voice of the void" plot resort for a common menace to unite the 3 races rather than the Xel Naga is... urgh. Metzen go home!
- More skill-based gameplay, more spectacle. By the looks of the new units and streams, that seems to be the case
- Glorious single player missions. Truthly the best aspect of Wings of Liberty.
- Shit plot and story. Because the butchering of Kerrigan's character and pussification of the Zerg can only go downwards. The whole "voice of the void" plot resort for a common menace to unite the 3 races rather than the Xel Naga is... urgh. Metzen go home!
I'm really noob @ SC. I finished WoL on casual but never bothered to jump into the multiplayer. Nevertheless this time around I would like to start messing with the online aspect of the game after I finish the campaign.
What race is the most effective to master for an absolute noob scrub tier like myself?
I hardly played any toss with WoL, but I found them cool and since I've played dota for years I found easier to micro small amounts of strong units with skills rather than large armies that requires strong focus on economy and building.
What race is the most effective to master for an absolute noob scrub tier like myself?
I hardly played any toss with WoL, but I found them cool and since I've played dota for years I found easier to micro small amounts of strong units with skills rather than large armies that requires strong focus on economy and building.
HotS has made your wish a reality.
When we first introduced this change, we mentioned how we think certain strategies are really awesome to see as a viewer, and this is a perfect example. Back in Wings, Medivac drops were all we were seeing at the pro level, but their use has greatly diminished over time as players learned to react and deal with them better.
Our general thinking on new units and abilities is that using them will always be learned faster than defending against them for obvious reasons. Because were already seeing some players defend against the new Medivacs extremely well, we definitely want to wait on this feedback to really make sure that it is in fact overpowered before making a change.
They're not saying its too strong, just responding to the community who is saying it is.