Support NeoGAF

[Killjoy-NL]

It's becoming more and more clear that Starfield was an unmitigated disaster and a complete flop.

We're going to see an unnatural amount of exodus as a result of it and probably somewhat of a reduction in force.

Some of that has to do with the expectations Microsoft created for it, some will be the game itself, and some of it will be putting this game on GamePass.

It probably needed a year or two more or a grander scope from the outset and it really needed that PS5 B2P revenue. The timing against Baldur's Gate couldn't have been worse not to mention the Cyberpunk expansion and it is going to be a complete ghost during the holiday season having unsuccesful moved the needle for Xbox Series.

This is precisely what myself and many are warning about when it comes to ABK. I'm sure some people will suggest this is just the regular grind of people coming and leaving studios, but it's only the start of it.

Who could possibly have imagined that without the Playstation installbase, Starfield sales would take a massive hit?

Anyway, MS doesn't know how to handle it's studios, as they don't even seem to have a clear vision. Or at least, they have a vision that's leading towards a dead end.

 

[mitchman]

It's becoming more and more clear that Starfield was an unmitigated disaster and a complete flop.

We're going to see an unnatural amount of exodus as a result of it and probably somewhat of a reduction in force.

Some of that has to do with the expectations Microsoft created for it, some will be the game itself, and some of it will be putting this game on GamePass.

It probably needed a year or two more or a grander scope from the outset and it really needed that PS5 B2P revenue. The timing against Baldur's Gate couldn't have been worse not to mention the Cyberpunk expansion and it is going to be a complete ghost during the holiday season having unsuccesful moved the needle for Xbox Series.

This is precisely what myself and many are warning about when it comes to ABK. I'm sure some people will suggest this is just the regular grind of people coming and leaving studios, but it's only the start of it.

What they really needed was writers and quest designers that didn't write as if a 12 year old wrote it.

 

[GymWolf]

so is starfield any good?

It's big and make you grow as a player.

 

[Skelterz]

There going the way of Rare, Anybody who believes these huge acquisitions are ever a good idea needs to give there head a wobble.

The only acquisitions that make sense to me are situations like Sega buying Atlus the company was practically bankrupt so it was to save the company.

 

[StueyDuck]

It's becoming more and more clear that Starfield was an unmitigated disaster and a complete flop.

We're going to see an unnatural amount of exodus as a result of it and probably somewhat of a reduction in force.

Some of that has to do with the expectations Microsoft created for it, some will be the game itself, and some of it will be putting this game on GamePass.

It probably needed a year or two more or a grander scope from the outset and it really needed that PS5 B2P revenue. The timing against Baldur's Gate couldn't have been worse not to mention the Cyberpunk expansion and it is going to be a complete ghost during the holiday season having unsuccesful moved the needle for Xbox Series.

This is precisely what myself and many are warning about when it comes to ABK. I'm sure some people will suggest this is just the regular grind of people coming and leaving studios, but it's only the start of it.

I think you make some decent points. However I will say that devs leaving after a project is out the door isn't unheard of. If you were to find a new job would you not want the latest game on your resume before leaving, also if, emphasis on if, they truly had the passion maybe getting it out the door was a personal milestone for them

What is interesting Is them jumping ship instead of moving onto a new team or project internally.

 

[FunkMiller]

so is starfield any good?

It‘s average.

That‘s the unsexy, uncontroversial, but accurate answer.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think you make some decent points. However I will say that devs leaving after a project is out the door isn't unheard of. If you were to find a new job would you not want the latest game on your resume before leaving, also if, emphasis on if, they truly had the passion maybe getting it out the door was a personal milestone for them

What is interesting Is them jumping ship instead of moving onto a new team or project internally.

As I mentioned some element of this is to be expected, especially with contractors, but losing senior leadership is not necessarily normal.

Peter Hines for example had been with Bethesda for 24 years. He was basically a lifer. For me it is pretty evident that this game didn't go as they hoped.

Will Shen had worked for Bethesda for 15 years and is leaving for a start-up. Either they have a serious retention problem or they're in a bit of chaos right now.

 

[StueyDuck]

As I mentioned some element of this is to be expected, especially with contractors, but losing senior leadership is not necessarily normal.

Peter Hines for example had been with Bethesda for 24 years. He was basically a lifer. For me it is pretty evident that this game didn't go as they hoped.

Will Shen had worked for Bethesda for 15 years and is leaving for a start-up. Either they have a serious retention problem or they're in a bit of chaos right now.

True.

But working for a company for 15 years for example can kill your soul, it's could be simply they need new and interesting in their life. It could also be that MS weren't willing to put the money forward to keep senior talent.

Overall we don't really know, but I don't think starfields issues necessarily points to all these resignations.

But that also doesn't mean that starfield didn't have issues either, it could have been the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Who could possibly have imagined that without the Playstation installbase, Starfield sales would take a massive hit?

Anyway, MS doesn't know how to handle it's studios, as they don't even seem to have a clear vision. Or at least, they have a vision that's leading towards a dead end.

They have a vision, it's just not a well thought out one.

The idea was, foreclose the PS version of this game at an obvious cost, but recover that revenue through the growth of GamePass. The problem is this doesn't really look like it increased GamePass' userbase substantially and by the amount that it may have increased it, it's unlikely to be long term.

It's behind NBA 2K24 on the most played games on Xbox, that's not a great sign of likely growth.

I think Microsoft's real issue is their model. I think it's a broken model and very few companies in the world would have tolerated this, but Microsoft believes that it can play the long game on this and transition the industry to a subscription model. It's just not going to work. They have nothing on the radar for 2024 that would help accomplish this and they've degraded the value of Xbox significantly.

More meaningfully to Bethesda though, they'll have to absorb the losses on this. Everyone with GamePass who might have bought this game, but didn't because they could play it for free or got GamePass temporarily to save money on the game. Microsoft will cover this loss to an extent, but my guess is especially after the company already experienced layoffs, that further reduction in force is entirely possible.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Imagine your bonuses are tied to the performance of this game either through net new MAU of GamePass and/or B2P sales. Could even be tied to metacritic ratings, but can't imagine a metric in which people would have received everything they hoped for.

Imagine working on a game for almost a decade and your payout bonus is completely trash. Obviously, you would look to leave, especially after you know people were already laid off earlier in the year and future layoffs are possible.

Or would you roll the dice and dedicate your career to Elder's Scrolls?

 

[IDKFA]

So this is what they're working on? I'm hoping it can really rival Elder Scrolls and Witcher in the openwold fantasy RPG space.

Any idea on year of release?

 

[Freeman76]

ABK isn't the answer. They just came out with Diablo. Another Diablo won't come out for another decade... Managing these IP are going to be a nightmare for Microsoft and the reality is they're still going to rely on CoD.

It was the wrong time to buy ABK to have any real impact on this generation.

Yeah I agree with this. I prefer the MS ecosystem by far, but the ABK acquisition makes little sense to me for the price they paid.

Unless they can find a way to bring WoW to series X, which would be a massive revenue stream for them, but their stupid parity with the series S has probably killed any chance of that happening.

Other than CoD and D4 I dont see the big deal with Actiblizz...

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[Varteras]

You see that brighter future? You can go there!

 

[Killjoy-NL]

They have a vision, it's just not a well thought out one.

The idea was, foreclose the PS version of this game at an obvious cost, but recover that revenue through the growth of GamePass. The problem is this doesn't really look like it increased GamePass' userbase substantially and by the amount that it may have increased it, it's unlikely to be long term.

It's behind NBA 2K24 on the most played games on Xbox, that's not a great sign of likely growth.

I think Microsoft's real issue is their model. I think it's a broken model and very few companies in the world would have tolerated this, but Microsoft believes that it can play the long game on this and transition the industry to a subscription model. It's just not going to work. They have nothing on the radar for 2024 that would help accomplish this and they've degraded the value of Xbox significantly.

More meaningfully to Bethesda though, they'll have to absorb the losses on this. Everyone with GamePass who might have bought this game, but didn't because they could play it for free or got GamePass temporarily to save money on the game. Microsoft will cover this loss to an extent, but my guess is especially after the company already experienced layoffs, that further reduction in force is entirely possible.

That's basically what I was getting at. You put it in words well.

Add to that the news of people leaving and it might be a sign of issues that will later down the line come back and bite MS in the *ss.

 

[Kurotri]

If only Emil left as well.

 

[Mr Moose]

People leave after they ship games all the time. Though that would be nothing new, the interesting thing is he is leaving at the same time as Pete. Wouldn't surprise me if more follow Pete.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Someone had to get fired after the fiasco that was Starfield. Hopefully they can hire someone better and Elder Scroll’s 6 in 2028 might actually be good.

Utter lunacy.

 

[CeeJay]

This is just the circle of life.
Hungry, creative, experienced and passionate devs gravitate towards each other starting small independent studios where they can do whatever they want, create a cool, carefree culture and find success with some small but novel games.
That success leads to steady organic growth bringing in new fresh talent which then leads to some amazing, ground-breaking games being created for a period of time.
The studio then starts to become too big with too many big egos and too many big ideas.
The very best young, fresh and creative talent becomes disillusioned that the big egos are getting all the accolades whist they are ones doing the actual creative work and begin to leave starting up their own companies (goto line 2).
The now large established and well respected studio begins to struggle with things like feature creep and infighting between it's rockstars and puts out some OK games.
The studio begins to stagnate and can't find that magic anymore and decides to play it safe putting out mediocre, derivative titles that don't meet sales expectation.
They then begin to haemorrhage cash from over-reaching and seek investment for huge multinationals who are more than willing to invest not realising that the best times have already been and gone.
The rockstars now cash out and go off to attempt to relive their previous accomplishments but just end up blowing all their money on yet more over-reached, derivative games. (This is where Bethesda is right now)
The studio is then an empty husk of itself with just a name and a handful of middle-of-the-road but well known staff that reminds everyone of the previous highs and attracts yet more middle-of-the-road devs seeking fame and fortune from the sugar daddy owners and continues to push out boring derivative games ad-nauseum.

 

[LordOfChaos]

 

[SABRE220]

If he designed Oblivion side quests/shivering isles quests and fallout3,s then im going to miss him but if he was only responsible for skyrim/fallout4 and starfields quests then its not exactly a huge loss and maybe new blood would be a good thing.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I've lost count how many quests in Starfield focus on fetching some kind of beverage. Most of the side stuff is so unimaginative it hurts. Good that he's going away. Emil Pagliarulo should be next.

 

[Nonehxc]

Lol, The Midas Touch strikes again.

Only, it doesn't turn shit to gold but the other way around, as always.

Who's next? Ninja Theory releasing Hellblade 2 with Senua as a non-binary blue hair troll? It fits, well, since she's schizophrenic and has several voices inside her, to call Senua THEY/THEM.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Hopefully they can hire someone better and Elder Scroll’s 6 in 2028 might actually be good.

You know it will be insane if that game (and it seems highly likely it will be) is in development on that same old updated Gamebryo engine.

Mind you if they started from scratch with a proper current gen engine the game won't be out until 2029.

 

[Bartski]

 

[SidViscous]

Correction - He left, then got asked to return all the way to the office return some things, then left again, then got asked to return all the way back again to talk to someone, then finally left.

 

[kiphalfton]

Former BioWare, Bethesda, and Obsidian you say.

All three studios suck now, so it would make sense all the good people (who haven't retired) had to go somewhere.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

This is fuckin hysterical!

 

[GloveSlap]

He didn't have time for his job anymore. He's too busy driving and flying around the country every time he has to say a few words to someone.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I loved the quest where I was an intern and had to fetch some coffee. So riveting.

I was dumbfounded by how bad this was. That’s not as bad as the 200 year old colony ship that had all the same tech and junk strewn about as the rest of the game. It’s just so bad and lazy.

I dropped the game soon after.