ResilientBanana
Member
I hope they know the guy SBI is going after is a Brazilian man. Kind of racist. Also, simply put, I don't need my kids to be politicized because a video game forced an agenda.
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Steam curator warns players if Sweet Baby is involved in a game
I hope they know the guy SBI is going after is a Brazilian man. Kind of racist. Also, simply put, I don't need my kids to be politicized because a video game forced an agenda.
delfrickintree
Banned
The Pendulum is a harsh mistress
Tangerine
Banned
This seems relevant:
steamcommunity.com
Corporate Shitlist :: Shitlisting Service
This is a comprehensive list of video game developers, publishers and other companies that have done stupid shit which negatively affected consumers in one way or another with links to proof or news sources covering the incident(s) in question. - Looking for something specific? Use CTRL + F - If...
Dr.Morris79
Member
Christ, two minutes of reading that is depressing as fuck..This seems relevant:
Corporate Shitlist :: Shitlisting Service
This is a comprehensive list of video game developers, publishers and other companies that have done stupid shit which negatively affected consumers in one way or another with links to proof or news sources covering the incident(s) in question. - Looking for something specific? Use CTRL + F - If...
I love it
Cheers for the link
nush
Member
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Came to post the Asmongold interview. Whether you like that guy or not he's got a huge following and he's no doubt helping this grow. Good on him.
Jaybe
Member
Great interview with the curator. He’s very passionate and eloquent given it is in English and not his first language. Pretty sweet that it passed 100,000 followers during the interview and to hear his reaction. Makes good points about Cole Train and Sergeant Johnson being awesome characters without all the injection of baggage and indoctrination being attempted with recent Sweet Baby games. Give it a listen.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
The obsession with sweet baby is kinda odd though, they aren't developers, they don't build anything. They consult and the studio ultimately decides if they want to use their input or not.
This means the real problem is the people that hired them, they are already ideologically in line with them and are basically just outsourcing the work/research they had on their checkboxes.
This means the real problem is the people that hired them, they are already ideologically in line with them and are basically just outsourcing the work/research they had on their checkboxes.
delfrickintree
Banned
did you read the fucking thread?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I have, but clearly you haven't.
Scotty W
Banned
Go back to resetera, you illiterate!
Jaybe
Member
Not sure what you mean by they don’t develop. If a game is a combination of gameplay and narrative and characters, etc then they are certainly contributing to the final product that is developed since Sweet Baby write the narratives and insert ham-fisted ideology into the games. Plus as the last few days have shown, they are full of racists. On your other point, it is much more efficient to point out to an industry that this is a consulting company that is producing work you disagree with than to track down decision-makers within all the various companies that choose the service.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
It doesnt matter that the game studios hired them, none of us are interested in assigning BLAME.
The list just lets us know which games have bad writing, so that consumers can make their purchasing decisions. Yes, they were hired. But i don't care who's fault it is that the game is shitty. I just want to avoid buying them
Reizo Ryuu
Member
They are consultants, so by definition they don't develop anything, even if they provide narrative inputs, the studios own writers will develop the final script, and that aside the studio can decide to not use any of it, or discard 90% of it or etc..; they aren't some videogame mafia, "use everything we said or we'll break your legs!".
Dunno where this anger is coming from, or what was offensive to you to trigger you badly. In any case I've never been to that forum even once.
Well that's just not true, there are plenty of posts in this thread assigning blame, like the one below:
nush
Member
Zathalus
Member
Its also misrepresenting some things from what I can see. Specifically the accusations against Valve.Christ, two minutes of reading that is depressing as fuck..
I love it
Cheers for the link
Edit: Actually way more then just Valve, the list is going deep into tinfoil hat territory.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
SBI is not the target here. They are just a handy marker that allow us to detect bad storytelling of certain games in advance. The goal isn't to stop bad games from being made, we can't stop that EVER. The goal is proper labeling on the box so you know what is in the box.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Uhh, yes I'm sure?
The image you provided even mentions as much: "provides narrative consultation".
Jaybe
Member
You’re splitting hairs here, if a studio employed an external company to code say, a multiplayer mode to a game and that was then decided to be included by the studio, and it was effectively entirely used as written, would you say the multiplayer mode was or was not developed by the external studio? Your mafia analogy is a lame reach btw.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
It's not splitting hairs, outsourcing development is not even remotely the same as consultancy.
Jaybe
Member
Companies outsource writing to Sweet Baby. Writing and development are two different input of many to a final game product. What aren’t you getting?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
An outsourced writer is not the same as a narrative consultant, which is what the company does.
geary
Member
You hire a consultant to implement what he's proposing.If you do now, then you throwing money out of the window is they consult on future games (as we see is happening).
Consultancy looks like a second opinion from outside, but in 90% of the cases companies implement what they received from consultants.
Rawbutt Jellybean
Member
And the boycott is making it loud and clear that the agenda they're spreading is unwanted.
It's less "obsession" than a focused boycott because it needs to be if you want any change.
Jaybe
Member
1) The company literally writes the game in some cases, see below. 2) even if they consult on narrative it’s still an indicator that the game is infected with their worldview.
Embearded
Member
I've seen consulting companies that do just that, they consult and leave and i've also seen them codevelop as externals.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Your post is nonsensical. I’m avoiding games SBI worked on because their writing is DEI shit. Does it matter whether the devs chose to contract SBI for their game?
I don’t give a shit whose idea it was or what % of the blame belongs to which company, the result is the same.
InterMusketeer
Member
You're right that Sweet Baby is just a symptom and not the absolute source of ideologically driven content, but customers haven't been able to direct their concerns to the right people for a long time due to a lack of information. Are these decisions made through the natural creative process, or to push an agenda? That discussion has been had many times on this forum and elsewhere. And that made it easy for companies to dismiss these concerns.
SBI is visible and easily identifiable and represents the trend many people hate within the industry, and without any other effective way to voice their concerns it's only natural that SBI was turned into a pariah like this.
The company itself is also run by people engaging in shitty behavior so that justifies it even more.
geary
Member
This paragraph from the Asmongold interview pretty much nails it...
"I think you're right, the reality is if you go back and you look at a lot of the older games there is a tremendous amount of diversity but its not being shown in a way that's disingenuous. And I think that's really what's happened a lot is that now people have kind of lost trust in the developers and in the people that are writing the story, so any time that there's a character that isn't a default white male people assume that it's there for some sort of like Sweet Baby Inc. reason, rather than actually being an artistic choice by the developer. And I think that's actually a much bigger issue."
"I think you're right, the reality is if you go back and you look at a lot of the older games there is a tremendous amount of diversity but its not being shown in a way that's disingenuous. And I think that's really what's happened a lot is that now people have kind of lost trust in the developers and in the people that are writing the story, so any time that there's a character that isn't a default white male people assume that it's there for some sort of like Sweet Baby Inc. reason, rather than actually being an artistic choice by the developer. And I think that's actually a much bigger issue."
CherryFalls
Banned
Another SBI employee referring themselves as a baby
This company continues to have a strange obsession with little children
This company continues to have a strange obsession with little children
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
This is so true and I hate it. It used to be that if a game had a diverse cast, gay characters, whatever, I thought nothing of it.
Nowadays if I see Empowered Black Woman or some ultra-diverse cast featured prominently, I can’t help but think “oh boy, it’s probably going to be one of THOSE games written by wannabe activists who care more about The Message than about writing a compelling story/characters”
This shit is having the exact opposite effect of what they intended.
GymWolf
Member
Can we stop calling these people consultants?
It's an insult to actual consultants that actually studied to have knowledge or have worked in the field.
When you see a "specialist in latinx" between their lines you know they are grifters that should work inside a 7eleven if it was not for the mind virus creating jobs for them.
It's an insult to actual consultants that actually studied to have knowledge or have worked in the field.
When you see a "specialist in latinx" between their lines you know they are grifters that should work inside a 7eleven if it was not for the mind virus creating jobs for them.
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Interfectum
Member
- Obsession with ChildrenAnother SBI employee referring themselves as a baby
This company continues to have a strange obsession with little children
- Pretends to be a good person with BLM and Trans shit smeared in
- Pronouns in Bio
keefged4
Member
The if's and but's as to how involved SBI are with a game's development are irrelevant. They are still associated with the product, therefore no money will be exchanged by me. This tool is a positive for everyone, It gives those who are both for and against SBI related products more visibility so they can make informed choices as to how to vote with their wallets.
intbal
Member
CherryFalls
Banned
I think they removed some games that they could only reference imdb as a source of involvement after feedback from the community
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yeah they don't care about that.
They do half assed job as writing and all they do in the background of their service is inputting politics, woke agenda and other FORCED stuff that ruins games. Usually characters that are not creation of imagination but woke politics.
But also sbi games tend to be less violent, have less cursing and be pondering with "good disney" messages
Eiknarf
Banned
In the 90s, the idea of “girl power” was natural and independent. Bands/artists like Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, Bikini Kill and Spice Girls etc were doing their own thing and kicking ass. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was created uniquely to fit around the main character being a woman. And Spider-man established Mary Jane as a strong character of her own accord. Ripley from Alien wasn't just a dude in a skirt…etc
It feels like a much better way of handling these things than simply putting one characters into another character's shoes for the sake of virtue signaling
It feels like a much better way of handling these things than simply putting one characters into another character's shoes for the sake of virtue signaling
gaming_again
Member
Two decades have been wasted - especially artistically - and many lives destroyed.
Last Hearth
Member
I would agree that they are the symptom of the problem, and not the cause of the problem.
But you gotta start somewhere.
Last Hearth
Member
Because the entire nature of "Virtue Signaling" is about the signaling part, and not about actually having the virtue.
Eiknarf
Banned
It sounds like Sweet Baby wants to promote “Political Correctness”. But political correctness, an ideology claimed by its proponents to be about “fairness and equality”, is actually an extremely bigoted ideology – it’s a NEW form of bigotry.
Sweet Baby claim to promote ethnic color blindness so that we see each other as people instead of skin colors, yet these same people ask us to label ourselves by skin color on monitoring forms. These divisive tick box forms promote a culture of “us and them“ perceptions.
Sweet Baby claim to promote equality, but they actually promote their own hierarchical systems of bigotry as a replacement for whatever existing system of bigotry they think they’re fighting.
Sweet Baby claim to promote ethnic color blindness so that we see each other as people instead of skin colors, yet these same people ask us to label ourselves by skin color on monitoring forms. These divisive tick box forms promote a culture of “us and them“ perceptions.
Sweet Baby claim to promote equality, but they actually promote their own hierarchical systems of bigotry as a replacement for whatever existing system of bigotry they think they’re fighting.
Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
All these people in the thread "they didn't actually implement anything in the game tho"
Get real, you know absolutely damn well they are working together with these corporations, leadership and teams nonetheless, what a shit argument.
You cannot have anything authentic, including ideas, art or stories when you have to first put it through a filter list of arbitrary, ever-evolving sliding scales of what is "acceptable". There are no real arbiters of this pseudo-morality either, and the lunacy will continue to circle the drain while people pretend there are no lines that can be crossed, that everything can just be live and let live. This is exactly why this type of shit can continue going on forever because it's all subjective and one simply needs to call it words like "hate, bigotry, phobia" to push logical thinkers away.
Why is it that these types never make anything of substance on their own, yet can worm their way into everything they wish to warp to their playbook? These tactics are obvious and the only way it's going to stop is for people to stop buying into the bullshit - literally and figuratively.
Get real, you know absolutely damn well they are working together with these corporations, leadership and teams nonetheless, what a shit argument.
You cannot have anything authentic, including ideas, art or stories when you have to first put it through a filter list of arbitrary, ever-evolving sliding scales of what is "acceptable". There are no real arbiters of this pseudo-morality either, and the lunacy will continue to circle the drain while people pretend there are no lines that can be crossed, that everything can just be live and let live. This is exactly why this type of shit can continue going on forever because it's all subjective and one simply needs to call it words like "hate, bigotry, phobia" to push logical thinkers away.
Why is it that these types never make anything of substance on their own, yet can worm their way into everything they wish to warp to their playbook? These tactics are obvious and the only way it's going to stop is for people to stop buying into the bullshit - literally and figuratively.
FingerBang
Member
It's fair for people who hate the ideology they're pushing to go after SBI:
1) They are the clear manifestation of something that has been visible in games for the last few years that felt a bit weird:
Why is there suddenly a black divinity in a game inspired by Norse mythology?
Why has a character that was introduced years ago in the Alan Wake universe suddenly become black?
Why are there so many diverse women in many leading positions in Starfield (at least in the first few hours)?
Why are the brutes in Gotham Knights gigantic women? Why are so many enemies suddenly women?
Why is Wonder Woman the only character respected in Justice League?
Why is MJ ugly in Spider-Man 2? Why are some of Miles side-missions so incredibly focused on identity?
All of the above have one thing in common: Sweet Baby Inc.
2) They are there to make companies get a higher ESG score
There is definitely a minority of extremists in game development, but I can guarantee most people in the industry don't give a shit. They're just afraid to speak out. They want to make fun, good games for everyone, not political statements. But these companies are also afraid to be punished by stakeholders who demand this kind of crap everywhere. Or at least, they did, since ESG has now become toxic (thank you, right-wing pundits, you did something good for once)
3) They have been doing it for years behind our back and that's suspicious
These people have tried their best not to be visible, and they still try to hide their involvement as much as they can. I do get it was to avoid harassment, but it's also true that up until yesterday, they would be openly praised. And yet, they have been able to work on a crazy number of big, HUGE games since 2018. Yes, it's a wholly privately owned company, but you have to admit that is odd.
Attacking SBI right now is the best way to send a message. You are saying you don't like forced crap in games that no one asked for (you don't need to have diversity in every game, you don't have to see people like you in a game to enjoy it); you are showing companies many of those games aren't really setting the world on fire sales-wise, and you can now make any game toxic by telling companies you will avoid the shit that involves SBI.
This strategy has worked with words like critical race theory, ESG, wokeness, DEI, etc. It will work with stuff like SBI and similar companies, which I'm sure exist and are now trying to hide their traces.
Many games up until now have succeeded in spite, not because of the ideological crappy writing. I have still enjoyed GOW:R, AWII and Spider-Man 2, but it's impossible not to notice.
That said, don't harass these people, or they'll use it to show we're all as retarded as you are and they'll have a point
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Tangerine
Banned
Everything they touch is more than likely going to suffer because these people have severe chips on their shoulders. They likely have zero passion for gaming, they are just activists who will try every avenue to affect change. They would rather tear down tradional things and cram their divisive drivel into a project that would be better and more widely enjoyed without their ideology infesting it.
Diversity and representation can be done right, look at everything everywhere all at once, or Arcane. If it fits, if it's in service of the world, if it doesn't deminish men to prop up women for example.
But you have to be passionate and talented to pull that off.
Diversity and representation can be done right, look at everything everywhere all at once, or Arcane. If it fits, if it's in service of the world, if it doesn't deminish men to prop up women for example.
But you have to be passionate and talented to pull that off.
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