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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

T

The Librarian

Banned
OuterWorldVoice said:
23u7c5k.gif


Dammit Dax! I coulda used this against you!!!
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to disappoint you.

:p
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Sisko's so great because he's actually comes across as a person and not some sort of Starfleet action figure almost all of the time. The only other character in Trek that, for me, always came across as so internally consistent and believable was Bones.

A favorite Sisko moment at the end of In the Pale Moonlight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-YyL7X4CWw
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
I can't read the Star Trek books. So many of them are awful and none of them are canon. There's no real incentive to pick them up at all, especially when I could just pick up an actually good book instead.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
I can't read the Star Trek books. So many of them are awful and none of them are canon. There's no real incentive to pick them up at all, especially when I could just pick up an actually good book instead.
Click to expand...
I can't read the Star Trek books because even though I can make-out the voices for each character in my head, it just doesn't seem like them. I don't know, it's hard to explain.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Fragamemnon said:
Sisko's so great because he's actually comes across as a person and not some sort of Starfleet action figure almost all of the time. The only other character in Trek that, for me, always came across as so internally consistent and believable was Bones.

A favorite Sisko moment at the end of In the Pale Moonlight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-YyL7X4CWw
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Bones was the only character that felt like a real person on TOS. Obviously all of the minor characters never felt like real persons. And Spock was well, Spock. Kirk in certain instances came across as a flawed regular human being.

Kirk was vunerable and showed a real side of a person with flaws despite in TOS and most of the films being a super hero. However it was only when under the direction of Nick Meyes sadly. But in his two movies he did show a very very vulnerable Kirk who could connect with you as a person. In Khan he had Kirk being extremely fearful of growing old and death and in Undiscovered Country he showed a Kirk who had to fight his inner demons of racism (specieism?).

Meyes also brilliantly used the super hero aspect of Kirk to turn it into a flaw in Khan by showing him as someone who was so cocky and self-assured he never imagined he'd ever have to sacrifice anything and the idea of losing would destroy him (and he did with Spock at the end).


So Kirk WAS able to be shown as a flawed normal human, but only under Meyes. Well and City on the Edge of Forever.




Kirk was a character who was a real person who could be connected with and was filled with flaws and emotional problems, but almost none of the writers/directors in Trek took advantage of it. It was easier to play up Super Kirk.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Cheebs said:
I wouldn't say Bones was the only character that felt like a real person on TOS. Obviously all of the minor characters never felt like real persons. And Spock was well, Spock. Kirk in certain instances came across as a flawed regular human being.

Kirk was vunerable and showed a real side of a person with flaws despite in TOS and most of the films being a super hero. However it was only when under the direction of Nick Meyes sadly. But in his two movies he did show a very very vulnerable Kirk who could connect with you as a person. In Khan he had Kirk being extremely fearful of growing old and death and in Undiscovered Country he showed a Kirk who had to fight his inner demons of racism (specieism?).

Meyes also brilliantly used the super hero aspect of Kirk to turn it into a flaw in Khan by showing him as someone who was so cocky and self-assured he never imagined he'd ever have to sacrifice anything and the idea of losing would destroy him (and he did with Spock at the end).


So Kirk WAS able to be shown as a flawed normal human, but only under Meyes. Well and City on the Edge of Forever.




Kirk was a character who was a real person who could be connected with and was filled with flaws and emotional problems, but almost none of the writers/directors in Trek took advantage of it. It was easier to play up Super Kirk.
Click to expand...

If Kirk had been able to save his son from the Klingons, like Sisko did, his hatred of the Klingons wouldn't have been as big and it would have made the issues in Undiscovered country alot easier.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Karakand said:
So I am on season 3 of ENT now... the Xindi thing and the Delphic Expanse is so bleh.
Click to expand...
Bail out and skip to season 4, but don't watch "Storm Front" parts 1 and 2, or "These are the Voyages..."
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Karakand said:
So I am on season 3 of ENT now... the Xindi thing and the Delphic Expanse is so bleh.
Click to expand...

I had no rel issues with season 3 and found it enjoyable and a vast improvement over season 1 and 2.

Then they went an did the stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid ending with the
SPACE NAZIS
 
D

DrEvil

not a medical professional
Karakand said:
So I am on season 3 of ENT now... the Xindi thing and the Delphic Expanse is so bleh.
Click to expand...


Wait for Coto to take over in S4, Mirror Darkly is <3
 
C

Cheebs

Member
DrForester said:
If Kirk had been able to save his son from the Klingons, like Sisko did, his hatred of the Klingons wouldn't have been as big and it would have made the issues in Undiscovered country alot easier.
Click to expand...
True, 3 does play into it.

When he sits down and but misses the seat and falls to the floor, fantastic moment.
 
K

Karakand

Member
DrForester said:
I had no rel issues with season 3 and foudn it enoyable and a vast improvement over season 1 and 2.
Click to expand...
It's nice that there is actually an arc in season 3... it's just introduced and subsequently conducted terribly.

Dax: Yeah I am definitely skipping those eps. "These Are the Voyages..." is like a St. Elsewhere-level TV finale.
 
B

besada

Banned
Dax01 said:
Does anyone know what the font Star Trek uses is called?
Click to expand...

It's been called Star Trek BT since the eighties. No idea what they based the original font off of.

Do you need Star Trek fonts?
 
I

Instigator

Banned
DrEvil said:
Wait for Coto to take over in S4
Click to expand...

Yes, wait for the alien nazis, Orion slave girls, where Klingons got/lost ridges and the spectacular series finale everyone's talking about.

You're in for quite a treat. :lol
 
M

MidiSurf

Banned
This thread is right up my alley. Few months back I finished TNG (second time) and few weeks back I finished DS9 and currently I'm watcing Voyagers (season 4)... Although I'm having troubles watching Voyagers :( Show is pretty terrible. I hope last three seasons are gold.

And Deep Space 9 is probably the best Star Trek show ever made.
 
T

Tobor

Member
Cheebs said:
I wouldn't say Bones was the only character that felt like a real person on TOS. Obviously all of the minor characters never felt like real persons. And Spock was well, Spock. Kirk in certain instances came across as a flawed regular human being.

Kirk was vunerable and showed a real side of a person with flaws despite in TOS and most of the films being a super hero. However it was only when under the direction of Nick Meyes sadly. But in his two movies he did show a very very vulnerable Kirk who could connect with you as a person. In Khan he had Kirk being extremely fearful of growing old and death and in Undiscovered Country he showed a Kirk who had to fight his inner demons of racism (specieism?).

Meyes also brilliantly used the super hero aspect of Kirk to turn it into a flaw in Khan by showing him as someone who was so cocky and self-assured he never imagined he'd ever have to sacrifice anything and the idea of losing would destroy him (and he did with Spock at the end).


So Kirk WAS able to be shown as a flawed normal human, but only under Meyes. Well and City on the Edge of Forever.




Kirk was a character who was a real person who could be connected with and was filled with flaws and emotional problems, but almost none of the writers/directors in Trek took advantage of it. It was easier to play up Super Kirk.
Click to expand...

The first Klingon episode, the one with the Organians, really sticks out as far as flawed Kirk is concerned. He becomes so aggravated by the Organians non-violence against the Klingons, that he ends up threatening them himself. You have to get past the low budget-ness, but it's an excellent episode.
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
I clearly need to do my background reading. I think I've heard about Phase 2, is it a planned sequel to TOS that never took off for some reason? I remember the (awesome) animated series, is it related to that?
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Mama Robotnik said:
I clearly need to do my background reading. I think I've head about Phase 2, is it a planned sequel to TOS that never took off for some reason? I remember the (awesome) animated series, is it related to that?
Click to expand...

Phase 2's pilot was re-scripted to become the first movie and few scripts were later used for a few episode of Next Generation (even Troi and Rikers "lost love" relationship was taken from Phase 2), but no link to the Animated Series I don't think.
 
D

dalyr95

Member
Just watched Generations again, surely Picard could of let the missle launch, Kirk and him go back into the Nexus and try again this time without Kirk dying!

Also Kirk needed to go out like Kor in DS9 (Once More Unto the Breach):
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Once_More_Unto_the_Breach_(episode)

Soon after, ten Jem'Hadar ships appear on the sensors, tracking Martok's squadron despite the fact that they are cloaked. As they slowly gain on them, a plan is devised to have one Bird-of-Prey drop out of warp, but make it appear as though the whole squadron had done so. This allows the remaining Birds-of-Prey make it to the rendezvous with the USS Defiant. Worf volunteered for the mission but Kor took his place, stunning him with a hypospray, at the last minute. The Dahar Master was able to engage the whole Jem'Hadar squadron with only a minimal crew of six, saving the remaining Klingon ships and ending his days as a true warrior. As sensor contact with him is lost and the Jem'Hadar squadron left behind, the Klingon crew took a bottle of Klingon bloodwine and drank and sang a Klingon battle song to Kor, for his heroic warrior sacrifice for them, as they continue to fly to friendly space.
 
B

besada

Banned
I have now finished watching Season 1 of DS9.

It was okay. Duet was reasonably good, as were a handful of other episodes. But there was a bunch of stupid being flung around, too. Some of it's just regular Star Trek stupid (everyone speaks English, including the Klingons in their own records), but there was some DS9-specific stupid, too.

And is it me, or does DS9 have some of the goofiest outfits of the entire Trek universe? Whoever picked out Jake's clothes should be beaten with a rake. Star Trek already ruined one fifteen year old's life, did they have to destroy another one? You know he got his ass beat for those outfits.

Seeing Nurse Ratched was a pip.

I liked the episode with Odo and Troi. Odo is still my favorite character, and I still want Bashir to be raped by Hortas.

On to Season Two.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
besada said:
I have now finished watching Season 1 of DS9.

It was okay. Duet was reasonably good, as were a handful of other episodes. But there was a bunch of stupid being flung around, too. Some of it's just regular Star Trek stupid (everyone speaks English, including the Klingons in their own records), but there was some DS9-specific stupid, too.

And is it me, or does DS9 have some of the goofiest outfits of the entire Trek universe? Whoever picked out Jake's clothes should be beaten with a rake. Star Trek already ruined one fifteen year old's life, did they have to destroy another one? You know he got his ass beat for those outfits.

Seeing Nurse Ratched was a pip.

I liked the episode with Odo and Troi. Odo is still my favorite character, and I still want Bashir to be raped by Hortas.

On to Season Two.
Click to expand...
Reasonably good?
 
W

WyndhamPrice

Member
Kira gets a lot better as the show goes on. I disliked her for the same reasons I still dislike Janeway, she seemed like an obs having obnoxious yappy dog or something. Always having issues with something or reminding us that she was a resistance fighter or something.

Really liked her by the end though, especially with Odo.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
DrForester said:
Phase 2's pilot was re-scripted to become the first movie and few scripts were later used for a few episode of Next Generation (even Troi and Rikers "lost love" relationship was taken from Phase 2), but no link to the Animated Series I don't think.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Will Decker Riker and his old flame the limited telepath Deltan Betazoid strike me as things they particularly didn't seem to bother changing much. :lol
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
i watched t.n.g.'s series finale "all good things. . . " last night.

WOW. what an incredible episode that was. thoroughly impressed. patrick stewart was truly the best thing about that show, and this gave him a chance to shine big time. the guy who played q was also excellent, and his delivery of his lines was so appropriately contemptuous:

"you obtuse piece of flotsam! you're to be denied existence."
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
besada said:
And is it me, or does DS9 have some of the goofiest outfits of the entire Trek universe? Whoever picked out Jake's clothes should be beaten with a rake. Star Trek already ruined one fifteen year old's life, did they have to destroy another one? You know he got his ass beat for those outfits.
Click to expand...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Indeed but the Ferengi brung their own fierceness in this area as well. As much as I can complain the other two elements are better than odo's generic brown and bland uniform.
 
B

besada

Banned
I begin to appreciate Garak more and more.

Watched the opening three episodes of season two, which I enjoyed.

Then the fourth episode was another that relied on an empty DS9, explained by a storm. Why not just say that people hadn't arrived back from the last evacuation?

Also, most of the Trill/Host stuff is spoiled for me by watching years of Stargate with the same sort of plots.

Still, it's getting better.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
besada said:
It was okay. Duet was reasonably good...
Click to expand...
besada said:
Yep. I've seen the plot elsewhere, it was predictably handled, and Kira's kind of a ham. Other than that it was good.
Click to expand...
People always hold up Duet as one of Trek's best episodes ever, but I remember reading in one of Leonard Nimoy's books about how in the 70's or 80's he directed a stage play concerning a major Nazi war criminal on trial for the deaths of thousands. In the end, it turned out the Nazi
was really just a minor bureaucrat consumed by guilt because he did nothing while so many perished.
I was really surprised that Duet ripped off that plot so blatantly.

Does anyone know what that play was called?
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
i like the ferengi episodes, goofy as they are. the guy who plays the grand nagus (think it's that dude from princess bride) just cracks me up, and quark is always fun to watch.
 
B

besada

Banned
Lucky Forward said:
Does anyone know what that play was called?
Click to expand...

The Man in the Glass Booth, which has been a play, a novel, and a movie. I've read the novel and seen the movie. It's pretty much a direct lift of the plot, and while it was very good for an episode of Star Trek, I couldn't help comparing the acting from the film.

I've also read a short science-fiction story somewhere that similarly appropriated the plot, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
besada said:
The Man in the Glass Booth, which has been a play, a novel, and a movie. I've read the novel and seen the movie. It's pretty much a direct lift of the plot, and while it was very good for an episode of Star Trek, I couldn't help comparing the acting from the film.

I've also read a short science-fiction story somewhere that similarly appropriated the plot, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'd been trying to think of that for a while. Now that I can google Duet and Man in the Glass Booth, I see that the connection is well known, even wikipedia has it.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
besada said:
Also, most of the Trill/Host stuff is spoiled for me by watching years of Stargate with the same sort of plots.
Click to expand...
Really? I thought they handled them pretty differently. With the Trill, the symbiont and host merge to form one new personality. With the goa'uld the symbiote and host share one body but retain unique minds, though the symbiote can access any information and take control of the body at will.
 
B

besada

Banned
JoshuaJSlone said:
Really? I thought they handled them pretty differently. With the Trill, the symbiont and host merge to form one new personality. With the goa'uld the symbiote and host share one body but retain unique minds, though the symbiote can access any information and take control of the body at will.
Click to expand...

But you have roughly the same situation with the Tokra, where they blend, but mostly I was talking about the plot device of removed symbionts and the race to reimplant them.

Not really fair to DS9, who did it first, but I happened to watch Stargate first.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
The best episode of Star Trek DS9 ever is obviously Move Along Home amirite?


ALLAMARAINE, COUNT TO FOUR
ALLAMARAINE, THEN THREE MORE
ALLAMARAINE, IF YOU CAN SEE
ALLAMARAINE, YOU'LL COME WITH ME
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
besada said:
But you have roughly the same situation with the Tokra, where they blend,
Click to expand...
Ehhh, they're still separate, they just do it in a peacefully coexistant way.
but mostly I was talking about the plot device of removed symbionts and the race to reimplant them.
Click to expand...
Ahh. That, yeah.
 
K

Karakand

Member
You know at first I didn't think I was going to like having space marines in ENT but they worked out OK as redshirts.

Also holy guacamole the Temporal Cold War is such a mess. I read the Memory Alpha article on Future Guy and it says they hadn't even fleshed out a backstory for him. That's almost as bad as the dudes in league with the Nazis. :lol
 
H

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
MMaRsu said:
Sorry to hate but Voyager > all.

There I said it.
Click to expand...

You know, I wasn't expecting it, but Voyager was really good. A little too much time traveling, and the borg were pretty weak, but overall I think it was good star trek. Some very good thought provoking episodes, and no stupid gods like the prophets in deep space nine. I thought it was pretty much what star trek should be. Best series after next generation, I think.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
besada said:
15 episodes away. Watching one of the Ferengi episodes now.
Click to expand...

You said Odo was your favorite character, right? Have you seen "Necessary Evil?" I think that's your next episode. You'll like it because it's all about him.
 
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