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[James Sawyer Ford]

Bruce was the co-creator of the franchise. I dont know why this is so hard to understand. Him and Neil both came up with the IP together. He was not brought in to direct Neil's vision. This was his vision just as much as Neil.

They were a directing duo like the Wachowskis and the Coen Brothers.

They were co-directors of a new IP. Not “Co-Creators”

The concept was made by Neil with the support of everyone on the ND team.

I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand that Bruce is not entitled to have his name on the HBO screen when so many others on the ND team were also hugely influential in developing the new IP but go completely unrecognized

 

[Vick]

Bruce was the co-creator of the franchise. I dont know why this is so hard to understand. Him and Neil both came up with the IP together. He was not brought in to direct Neil's vision. This was his vision just as much as Neil.

They were a directing duo like the Wachowskis and the Coen Brothers.

Bruce was the gameplay director of the first game and not the story writer. I am sure the two of them bounced ideas off of each other but the story itself was mainly Neil. Nothing against Bruce but these are the facts.

Straley goes on stage to collect the Best Narrative Award.

 

[Topher]

When 70% of people who worked on Uncharted 4 left the company along with Straley? Amazing.

What is amazing is that this lie keeps getting repeated. That is from Schirerer’s kotaku article but what it actually said is 14 of 20 non-lead designers left when the game was done.

 

[Punished Miku]

If I accidentally got a scoop that made Druckmann look bad, I'd beg for mercy as well. Dude ends careers faster than Nintendo's lawyers.

 

[SlimySnake]

They were co-directors of a new IP. Not “Co-Creators”

The concept was made by Neil with the support of everyone on the ND team.

I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand that Bruce is not entitled to have his name on the HBO screen when so many others on the ND team were also hugely influential in developing the new IP but go completely unrecognized

They were co-creators. You can go read up on the beginnings of TLOU and you will find that BOTH of these guys were handpicked by Sony/ND in 2009 to go off and make a NEW game TOGETHER. They were a team of TWO who eventually came up with TLOU.

You are making it sound like Neil was told to go write a script for TLOU and then once he had written the script, Bruce was told to come on aboard and help him direct the gameplay. It just didnt happen like that. They were both co-creators of the franchise.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Straley goes on stage to collect the Best Narrative Award.

Because the game was the one getting nominated, not the writer. You are only showing how clueless you are.

 

[SlimySnake]

If I accidentally got a scoop that made Druckmann look bad, I'd beg for mercy as well. Dude ends careers faster than Nintendo's lawyers.

After watching Sully confirm that it was indeed a hostile takeover, this fucking moron comes across as a whiny bitch who fought his own bosses who had better leads and sources than he did.

And why? To protect Neil and Bruce? A woman was just forced out by not one but FOUR men at the top of Sony's premiere WOKE studio and he's defending the men. Amazing.

 

[Punished Miku]

After watching Sully confirm that it was indeed a hostile takeover, this fucking moron comes across as a whiny bitch who fought his own bosses who had better leads than he did.

And why? To protect Neil and Bruce? A woman was just forced out by not one but FOUR men at the top of Sony's premiere WOKE studio and he's defending the men. Amazing.

It literally sounds like he's groveling to try and protect himself. Tried to take his name off the story lol. How often does that happen? The guy sounds straight up scared. He probably accidentally had a real scoop for once in his life.

 

[Represent.]

Straley goes on stage to collect the Best Narrative Award.

He literally goes on stage, and doesnt say a word. Neil literally does all the talking... Because Neil wrote the game. Jesus why is this so hard to understand? Did Bruce have an input on the story and characters? Of course, but Neil wrote the actual script.

This does nothing to deminish the impact Straley had on TLOU - He and Neil were 1a and 1b in terms of most important.

 

[Tripolygon]

Oh really, how so? Is this not enough?

Mindblowing even.
Well, not really, this kind of cognitive dissonance is Druckmann stans signature.

Contributing ideas does not make you a writer. Literally everyone at ND contributed to the creation of the game.

How Do Writing Credits Work in Hollywood?​

"If the screenplay is original, the first writer must have contributed at least 33% to the final shooting draft in order to be credited, while any subsequent writer must have contributed at least 50% (or more than 50% in the case of a production executive). If it’s an adaptation, each writer’s contribution must account for at least 33% of the final draft. Additionally, for original screenplays, the first writer is entitled, at the very least, to a “Story by” credit, per Guild rules."

As far as i'm aware, there is no such rules for crediting in games owing to the fact that the industry has not been unionized as a whole so no rules set. But they still include credit at the end of games as a de facto following how film and TV does it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Straley goes on stage to collect the Best Narrative Award.

Bruh!

 

[HTK]

Don't know don't care. Bruce is not with ND nor is he involved with HBO project. Maybe if he stuck around things would be different. I actually prefer Bruce over Neil but it is what it is.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They were co-creators. You can go read up on the beginnings of TLOU and you will find that BOTH of these guys were handpicked by Sony/ND in 2009 to go off and make a NEW game TOGETHER. They were a team of TWO who eventually came up with TLOU.

You are making it sound like Neil was told to go write a script for TLOU and then once he had written the script, Bruce was told to come on aboard and help him direct the gameplay. It just didnt happen like that. They were both co-creators of the franchise.

They were hand picked to be co directors

Are we going to need David Jaffe on the credits of the God of War tv show? This is ridiculous

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Neil McDruckmann.

The fact that he wanted TLOU2 to basically be a formulaic sequel to the first and tried to big boss Neil and the team into it, resulting in the team and Wells siding with the Druckmann should let you know who actually created the thing. Steve Bruce is NOT a writer.

Where is the story on this? Sounds interesting.

 

[Flutta]

They were co-directors of a new IP. Not “Co-Creators”

The concept was made by Neil with the support of everyone on the ND team.

I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand that Bruce is not entitled to have his name on the HBO screen when so many others on the ND team were also hugely influential in developing the new IP but go completely unrecognized

Have you even read anything that was posted about Bruce involvement in IP? Like anything at all?

That's one way to downplay Bruce involvement in the IP "Neil + everyone else". Bruce + Niel was chosen by Sony to create a new IP which means THEY BOTH made TLOU to be what it is today.

 

[Flutta]

Because the game was the one getting nominated, not the writer. You are only showing how clueless you are.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Have you even read anything that was posted about Bruce involvement in IP? Like anything at all?

That's one way to downplay Bruce involvement in the IP "Neil + everyone else". Bruce + Niel was chosen by Sony to create a new IP which means THEY BOTH made TLOU to be what it is today.

Bruce was hugely influential on the game

So were MANY others that weren’t directors, all the way from individual contributors to leads

But they are credited on the game. I see no reason why any of the should be specifically mentioned on the HBO show beyond the recognition of “based on the game by Naughty Dog”

That includes Bruce

 

[DeepEnigma]

Bruce was hugely influential on the game

So were MANY others that weren’t directors, all the way from individual contributors to leads

But they are credited on the game. I see no reason why any of the should be specifically mentioned on the HBO show beyond the recognition of “based on the game by Naughty Dog”

That includes Bruce

It really is this simple.

But oh you know, "confirmation bias" for the "Cuckmann" shit-pile. I am not Neil's biggest fan, I can't care less and am indifferent towards him, but this is how things work in the entertainment industries.

 

[SlimySnake]

They were hand picked to be co directors

Are we going to need David Jaffe on the credits of the God of War tv show? This is ridiculous

Nope. Co-Creators. They were told to go and make any new game. They started with Jak and after spending some time on a Jak reboot, they chose to CREATE TLOU instead. There was no TLOU script or idea before them. They both were there from day one.

And Yes, Jaffe as the creator of GoW should definitely get credit for the IP. Thats actually what Bruce is talking about. It was Jaffe's idea. He directed the first game in the IP. Any subsequent milking of that IP should earn him royalties and credit and what not. The Director's Guild and ScreenWriter's Guilds in Hollywood are essentially unions that ensure that the creators of these IPs get the credits they deserve. Whether it terms or royalties or just plain 'credit' in the end credits. We dont have that in video games where Sony owns the IP and wont admit Straley created the franchise due to not wanting to pay him the royalties from subsequent remakes and tv shows.

I dont understand why we are defending Sony corp over the actual director/creator. I thought we were supposed to be on the side of the artists, not suits like Jimbo, Bob Iger, Kotick, and Phil Spencer?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

And Yes, Jaffe as the creator of GoW should definitely get credit for the IP.

If they want credit for IP them they should put up their own money to fund these massive hundred million dollar productions.

Sorry, they do not own the IP or get credit for it. That’s Sony’s property

Turns out, both Bruce and Jaffe HAVE tried to own their own IP and failed miserably. Goes to show you that simply being 1 talented director on a team of hundreds is not sufficient in and of itself for a successful IP

 

[Flutta]

Bruce was hugely influential on the game

So were MANY others that weren’t directors, all the way from individual contributors to leads

But they are credited on the game. I see no reason why any of the should be specifically mentioned on the HBO show beyond the recognition of “based on the game by Naughty Dog”

That includes Bruce

Nice we're getting somewhere.

What's the base elements that a movie/show is based on? It needs to have a script that tells a story right. Bruce felt left out because he was hugely involved with crafting the story of TLOU. The rest of ND team did mostly design, sound, programming etc. The rest of the team can't take the same credit because their work is not translated or being used on a TV show. But the story is, which Bruce had a huge involvement in.

Let's say me and you go make a game together, we have a concept + story and everything else. Then we go hire a bunch of devs to make the game a reality. Anyways games become a massive hit.

We both go our ways and i go and make a movie/show about it without giving you ANY credit. How would that make you feel?

 

[Punished Miku]

If they want credit for IP them they should put up their own money

Or unionize so that investors can kiss their ass if they can't negotiate fairly with the creatives. Hence the point he's making. No creatives in Hollywood fund multi-million dollar productions with their own money. They have a union.

 

[SlimySnake]

beyond the recognition of “based on the game by Naughty Dog”

And you dont see how thats bullshit? And anti-artist?

You dont think we have movie studios? Hell, the place where artists actually record their songs are called studios. Should Britney Spears get credit for her songs or the studio where she worked with dozens of other people to record and compose the song? What about CG Studios like Weta Digital that literally created the entire Avatar movies from scratch while James Cameron simply directed a bunch of motion capture sessions? If you werent on message boards, you would never even hear of the Weta Digital. Avatar is a JAMES CAMERON movie. The Matrix is not a Warner Brothers studio movie. It's a Wachowskis brother movie.

This is a Neil Druckman and Bruce Straley game. They should get the credit as the creators. The people who work in Naughty Dog are no different than the camera operators and prop and make up artists who do all the legwork while the directors direct everyone on set. I dont know why games have to be any different.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Or unionize so that investors can kiss their ass if they can't negotiate fairly with the creatives. Hence the point he's making. No one in Hollywood funds multi-million dollar productions with their own money. They have a union.

Sure, they can Communize but that’s going to require a huge effort from everyone in the industry to standardize and then we will get garbage just like we do from Hollywood these days

That’s when big publishers will get creative in ways to avoid paying the unions. This shit is not unique and Communization solves nothing

 

[proandrad]

As long as he was paid fairly for his original job, Sony/Naughtydog owe this man nothing.

 

[EverydayBeast]

First episode was great but we don’t know anything about the last of us 3, is Abby living good over the years? What’s Ellie’s mindset?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

And you dont see how thats bullshit? And anti-artist?

These games are made by hundreds of people

It’s not similar to some solo artist. At all

 

[SlimySnake]

If they want credit for IP them they should put up their own money to fund these massive hundred million dollar productions.

Sorry, they do not own the IP or get credit for it. That’s Sony’s property

Turns out, both Bruce and Jaffe HAVE tried to own their own IP and failed miserably. Goes to show you that simply being 1 talented director on a team of hundreds is not sufficient in and of itself for a successful IP

Sony actually makes movies too you know. They have different standards for directors. Whats the difference here? THey almost gave Nolan $100 million to make Oppenheimer before another studio swooped in to offer Nolan a better cut of the profits.

The artists have always needed the money and resources from Studios. And the studios have always needed the talent of directors. These suits have no talent so they go and get these directors. They get to keep a vast amount of profits but thanks to the Directors unions in hollywood, the directors who come up with the idea actually do get royalties. We all grew up watching John Carpenter's movies and they were all marketed as John Carpenter's The Thing. John Carpenter's The Vampire. I cant even tell you which studio made those films.

It's a symbiotic relationship. Even movie studios dont always put up all of their money. They sign deals with other studios internationally to distribute the same movie they made in the U.S because they cant afford to release it everywhere at once. In that case, who should get the credit?

 

[NonPhixion]

Thinking someone deserves royalties for creating something for a company while be paid a salary from said company. Hahahahahahahahahah some of your are so fucking stupid.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony actually makes movies too you know. They have different standards for directors. Whats the difference here? THey almost gave Nolan $100 million to make Oppenheimer before another studio swooped in to offer Nolan a better cut of the profits.

The artists have always needed the money and resources from Studios. And the studios have always needed the talent of directors. These suits have no talent so they go and get these directors. They get to keep a vast amount of profits but thanks to the Directors unions in hollywood, the directors who come up with the idea actually do get royalties. We all grew up watching John Carpenter's movies and they were all marketed as John Carpenter's The Thing. John Carpenter's The Vampire. I cant even tell you which studio made those films.

It's a symbiotic relationship. Even movie studios dont always put up all of their money. They sign deals with other studios internationally to distribute the same movie they made in the U.S because they cant afford to release it everywhere at once. In that case, who should get the credit?

The difference is, Nolan has actual clout and authority (based on his huge track record), to command those deals to be made

Bruce does not

A more apt comparison to Nolan is Kojima, he likely had tons of potential suitors lined up and could call the shots on his terms

 

[Flutta]

First episode was great but we don’t know anything about the last of us 3, is Abby living good over the years? What’s Ellie’s mindset?

Abby is prob back being juiced up and still angry and want to kill Tommy this time because why not. Ellie has prob already forgotten that she supposed to "save the world" and instead is a gang leader somewhere smoking weed getting depressed because Joel is haunting her in her dreams.

 

[DeepEnigma]

We are not comparing The Dark Knight to Bruce Straley.

 

[fart town usa]

Just wait a few years, I'm sure the show will be remade and then maybe this guy will be featured in the credits.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Just wait a few years, I'm sure the show will be remade and then maybe this guy will be featured in the credits.

And sodium levels will still be at an all time high.

 

[SlimySnake]

Sure, they can Communize but that’s going to require a huge effort from everyone in the industry to standardize and then we will get garbage just like we do from Hollywood these days

That’s when big publishers will get creative in ways to avoid paying the unions. This shit is not unique and Communization solves nothing

Hollywood had a fantastic year in 2022. They got their shit together in just 2 years after the pandemic despite all the lockdowns and covid protocols fucking with on location shootings involving hundreds of extras, thousands of cast and crew and thousands more stuck in CG studios or working remotely to get dozens of AAA movies out just 2 years after the pandemic literally shut down ALL filming for months.

Meanwhile, the amazing video game industry is still making last gen trash in 2023. Cant finish any game on time. Release buggy trash after trash. Had in-arguably the worst year for AAA ever with a total of maybe 5 AAA games all year from all studios and publishers. All of them last gen.

Maybe, just maybe the commies in Hollywood are more productive than the lazy hacks in the industry.

 

[nightmare-slain]

He's mad he didn't get his name at the end of an episode? Most people don't watch credits. If I were him I'd be happy as long as I got paid. If he didn't work on the show in any capacity then he doesn't deserve a credit.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Hollywood had a fantastic year in 2022.

 

[SlimySnake]

The difference is, Nolan has actual clout and authority (based on his huge track record), to command those deals to be made

Bruce does not

But why does not have any clout after CREATING TLOU. Directing Uncharted 2 which won the most GOTY awards in 2019. Directing TLOU which won the most awards in 2013. Directing Uncharted 4 which won the most awards in 2016. His games have sold more than 20 million copies twice.

Nolan hasnt won any awards. Nolan's movies have never won best picture. He has clout because his movies make money. But Bruce's games have been making money since he started directing them in 2009. What is different about him compared to Nolan or the Wachowskis?

Maybe if they had a Guild for directors, they would renegoitate and ensure THE MOST prolific director in Sony Computer Entertainment's history in terms of GOTY awards, critical acclaim AND sales has some clout.

 

[Topher]

Nope. Co-Creators. They were told to go and make any new game. They started with Jak and after spending some time on a Jak reboot, they chose to CREATE TLOU instead. There was no TLOU script or idea before them. They both were there from day one.

And Yes, Jaffe as the creator of GoW should definitely get credit for the IP. Thats actually what Bruce is talking about. It was Jaffe's idea. He directed the first game in the IP. Any subsequent milking of that IP should earn him royalties and credit and what not. The Director's Guild and ScreenWriter's Guilds in Hollywood are essentially unions that ensure that the creators of these IPs get the credits they deserve. Whether it terms or royalties or just plain 'credit' in the end credits. We dont have that in video games where Sony owns the IP and wont admit Straley created the franchise due to not wanting to pay him the royalties from subsequent remakes and tv shows.

I dont understand why we are defending Sony corp over the actual director/creator. I thought we were supposed to be on the side of the artists, not suits like Jimbo, Bob Iger, Kotick, and Phil Spencer?

We are not talking about any one person being credited with “creating” TLOU. No one was given that credit other than Naughty Dog. That is a key distinction here. I thought this was about being credited with creation as well but when I saw the actual credits I realized it wasn’t at all.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

But why does not have any clout after CREATING TLOU. Directing Uncharted 2 which won the most GOTY awards in 2019.

I dunno? Ask the market? If he had such clout, like Kojima, he could call the shots on getting those deals and budgets. Truth is that being director on two games isn’t enough. You need significant institutional clout and relationships with wide swaths of talent to do stuff like that.

The reality is that his tenure wasn’t long enough to become that. Interestingly, Neil’s tenure and success now is approaching that level just by staying with ND.

 

[SlimySnake]

there will always be marvel trash, but we got an amazing Top Gun. Equally impressive and ambitious Avatar. One of the best Batman adaptions. And dozens upon dozens of big AAA summer blockbusters in one year. Over 35 movies made more than $100 million at the box office this year. It is almost back to pre-pandemic levels which is incredible considering no one was shooting anything just two years ago.

And thats before i list all the great smaller movies and tv shows that launched with the same great quality as they did pre-pandemic. HBO alone had a phenomenal year with Euphoria, Westworld and, House of Dragon sandwiched between succession and TLOU in late 2021 and early 2023.

They are very productive. Still producing high quality content pushing boundries unlike the games industry which has simply given up on pushing the envelope and resorted to releasing last gen trash three years into this gen.

We need more directors like Bruce in this industry. Imagine if Nolan quit because he "burned" out. It would be a huge story. We need to treat our ambitious directors better or we end up with premiere studios like Naughty Dog releasing generic asset flips like TLOU remake while their only good director was out making a fucking tv show for hollywood.

 

[SlimySnake]

I dunno? Ask the market? If he had such clout, like Kojima, he could call the shots on getting those deals and budgets. Truth is that being director on two games isn’t enough. You need significant institutional clout and relationships with wide swaths of talent to do stuff like that.

The reality is that his tenure wasn’t long enough to become that. Interestingly, Neil’s tenure and success now is approaching that level just by staying with ND.

Sure, after he pushed out Amy henning, Justin Richmond and Bruce Straley becoming the only remaining director in the studio. Then after he became Co-President, he demoted the Lost Legacy director to direct the remake which was a copy pasta of the first game.

Stabbing people in the back and forcing them out does seem very commie And Stalin-ish but what do I know.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

We need more directors like Bruce in this industry. Imagine if Nolan quit because he "burned" out.

Even the great ones can get burned out, this is all individual and has nothing to do with whether your name is on display directly for a project you did not support

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sure, after he pushed out Amy henning, Justin Richmond and Bruce Straley becoming the only remaining director in the studio. Then after he became Co-President, he demoted the Lost Legacy director to direct the remake which was a copy pasta of the first game.

Stabbing people in the back and forcing them out does seem very commie And Stalin-ish but what do I know.

We don’t know the full story

Neil would not have ascended unless Studio leadership thought he was better than the alternatives

I feel bad for Amy but these things can get political in any organization

 

[lame gag1990]

Nobody will notice because no one reads credits.

 

[NonPhixion]

He was a co-director on his 3 directorial projects but he himself is the most prolific director Sony has ever had? Hahahhahahahhahah

 

[Vick]

We are not comparing The Dark Knight to Bruce Straley.

Straley disrespect is getting pathetic..

Imagine getting laughted at in videogame forums after being Game Director of things like these:

 

[Certinty]

After the shit Druckmann produced with the second game it wouldn’t even shock me if Straley was the reason the first game was so good. Definitely at the very least deserves a mention.

 

[SlimySnake]

He was a co-director on his 3 directorial projects but he himself is the most prolific director Sony has ever had? Hahahhahahahhahah

Ah yes. Who gives a shit about the GAME director in charge of GAMEplay in 3 of the best and biggest sony video GAMES of all time. Am i right?

His main competition is Amy who co-directed 3 games at Sony. Jaff who directed 2 big critical hit and commerical hits. Twisted Metal and GOW1. Barlog who directed 2 games. And Neil who co-directed 3 games. No one else comes close.

Id put Bruce's Uncharted 2, TLOU1 and Uncharted 4 resume over Amy's U1-U3 and Neil's TLOU, TLOU2 and Uncharted 4 any day of the week.

You'd be retarded to think he's not at least up there.

 

[Vick]

Id put Bruce's Uncharted 2, TLOU1 and Uncharted 4 resume over Amy's U1-U3 and Neil's TLOU, TLOU2 and Uncharted 4 any day of the week.