NonPhixion
Member
You’d be retarded to think he is the single most prolific director while capitalizing “the” & “most”
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The Last of Us Game Director Bruce Straley Calls for Unionization After HBO Credits Snub
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Uncharted 2 was a just as influential in this industry than TDK was for comic book movies at the time. Maybe you were too young for it, but Uncharted 2 swept that year's awards and set the cinematic template Sony studios still follow to this day. The setpieces Bruce was directly in charge of are still copied to this day in every single linear and open world story driven game.We are not comparing The Dark Knight to Bruce Straley.
I cant believe we are at a point where Uncharted 2 is now being dismissed by sony fans.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So you cant compare him to any director over at Sony. Thought so.
Topher
Identifies as young
Straley disrespect is getting pathetic..
Imagine getting laughted at in videogame forums after being Game Director of things like these:
Laughing at arguments and laughing at Bruce Straley are two entirely different things. Are you willing to give credit to Neil Druckmann for his metacritic scores as well?
Vick
Member
It's absolutely ridiculous.
I'm speechless honestly.. the amount of hate from people who enjoyed the shit out of his work for decades, just because he'd like a bit of recognition for a super successful product which is this guy live-action almost 1:1 recreation of something he directed and co-created..
Gamers fucking sucks.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
If Bruce is so great by himself why hasn’t he done shit since he left ND?
Demon2blades
Member
You work for a studio and anything you produce under their banner Is there property to do with and credit as they please... Honestly imo I don't know why we as gamers give a shit about these small injustices when there's workers in much more dire situations then in game development around the world .
Topher
Identifies as young
How the hell did this thread go from Straley deserves mention to Straley was soley responsible for TLOU1, Uncharted 2 and 4?
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Thebonehead
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The funny thing is Neil is hated around these parts and I end up having to defend him and TLOU2 every few weeks. So to see people all over a sudden take his side over the actual director of the GAME is hilarious.It's absolutely ridiculous.
I'm speechless honestly.. the amount of hate from people who enjoyed the shit out of his work for decades, just because he'd like a bit of recognition for a super successful product which is this guy live-action almost 1:1 recreation of something he directed and co-created..
Gamers fucking sucks.
What has Amy done since leaving ND almost 10 years ago?
Does this mean she never created Uncharted?
What's Ken Levine done since Bioshock Infinite? Is he not the creator of Bioshock?
If an MGS movie comes out and because Kojima hasnt made a MGS game in the last 8 years, should we assume Konami isnt lying when they give ZERO credit for the game?
What are we arguing about now?
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I don’t see why any of those people need to be explicitly mentioned if they ever do or have done film or tv adaptations
Vick
Member
For real man, where the fuck is his version of TLOU II he produced in his house?
Have you missed all the people laughing at the notion of him contributing to the game story, or in general what's being recreated almost 1:1 in the live-action version?
And by the way:
What about this? What kind of mental gymnastic is required this time to dismiss this evidence? I await instructions guys.
The game credits say Written by Neil DruckmannFor real man, where the fuck is his version of TLOU II he produced in his house?
Have you missed all the people laughing at the notion of him contributing to the game story, or in general what's being recreated almost 1:1 in the live-action version?
And by the way:
What about this? What kind of mental gymnastic is required this time to dismiss this evidence? I await instructions guys.
The HBO credits say Written by Neil Druckmann
What is there to argue? You guys keep presenting all of these screenshots with no context and just "SEE" "LOOK" "HERE!" which is saying nothing at the same time.
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Topher
Identifies as young
For real man, where the fuck is his version of TLOU II he produced in his house?
Have you missed all the people laughing at the notion of him contributing to the game story, or in general what's being recreated almost 1:1 in the live-action version?
And by the way:
What about this? What kind of mental gymnastic is required this time to dismiss this evidence? I await instructions guys.
No idea what that has to do with what you quoted from me. I've said from the beginning that TLOU was a full collaboration between Straley and Druckmann. I've said from the beginning that if this is about crediting the "creators" then Straley should be listed. You can bring all the evidence of the work Straley has done all you want and I'll acknowledge it fully.
None of that translates to Bruce Straley was solely responsible for Uncharted 2, 4, and TLOU1. You guys are going in the opposite direction of where you started. If you are going to talk about "mental gymnastics" then start there.
Vick
Member
The point is not about the writing credit but Straley actually deserving ANY kind of credit for a recreation of his work.
sainraja
Member
No, people didn't have to buy it at all and the backlash had more to do with the event that happened in the game over something actually being wrong with the game itself.
Topher
Identifies as young
Then why didn't anyone bring this up with the Uncharted movie?
Vick
Member
Literally no one said this.
Topher
Identifies as young
No, you are right. I misread the following.
He was comparing bodies of work rather than giving individual credit. Apologies.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Neil Duckmann was working on the story before he got a job at Naughty Dog.
It started off as Project NOTLD. He got the idea from Ico, That Yellow Bastard, and Night of the Living Dead, but it was rejected. This later developed into "The Turning" and it was also rejected.
While working on Uncharted, Neil and Bruce started working on the story, and then it progressed from there.
A misconception is that Neil and Bruce were the only ones working on this story and it was actually a team of people. An example is at the 47:30 mark. Neil says when he was developing the story, he wrote that Ellie had someone with her when she was bit and she gave the Riley character to someone else.
Some people want to give Bruce the most credit simply because they don't like Neil Duckmann. If I were to go by this Keynote, it was Neil's story and Bruce (along with other writers) helped him work on it.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Movie directors are independent contractors. Film industry and game industry aren’t alike there. Just another ignorant comparison.
Also unless they get writing credits directors are never mentioned as the creators. So just more ignorance there.
Original scripts in the film industry are optioned. They are independent creations unless it’s for a franchise that is owned by a studio. In that case it’s closer to game development, where the IP is by default owned by the studio/publisher making it.
People want to keep hating on Neil but Naughty Dog and Sony stand firmly behind him, and it’s not a coincidence that he was so involved in the HBO show. Sorry haters.
Also unless they get writing credits directors are never mentioned as the creators. So just more ignorance there.
Original scripts in the film industry are optioned. They are independent creations unless it’s for a franchise that is owned by a studio. In that case it’s closer to game development, where the IP is by default owned by the studio/publisher making it.
People want to keep hating on Neil but Naughty Dog and Sony stand firmly behind him, and it’s not a coincidence that he was so involved in the HBO show. Sorry haters.
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Fake
Member
Any TLOUS2 conversation lead to that. Cause this effect unfortunately. I love UC:LL, but somehow called hater by some.
Tripolygon
Banned
What you are saying makes no sense. They all have a hand in every game except for U3 and Amy was not a part of and U4, TLOU.
U1 : Bruce Art Director, Neil Game Designer, Amy Game Director
U2, Bruce Game Director, Neil was Lead Game Designer, Amy was Creative Director.
U4: Neil and Bruce were co directors, Neil was also a Writer.
TLOU: Neil Creative Director and Writer, Bruce was Game Director
TLOU 2: Neil was Creative Director and Writer, Anthony Newman & Kurt Margenau were game directors.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sorry I have no idea what you're trying to say and how your reply refutes anything I said.
The guy laughed at my suggestion that the director of 3 of the biggest and most acclaimed Sony games ever made is their most profilic director ever. I then compiled a list of ALL big name Sony directors and compared Bruce's output to theirs. Feel free to disagree whether or not the U2, TLOU and U4 combo is better than any 3 game combo from these other directors but I struggle to see why you think it doesnt make sense.
Topher
Identifies as young
Who is dismissing Uncharted 2?
Tripolygon
Banned
You are trying to separate each game and attribute them to singular people while they all worked on it. The person you quoted was saying Bruce is not the most prolific director because he was co director on all the projects. Which is true.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They are today. But they used to be bitches of Studio owners until they unionized. Now thanks to their guild, they can negotiate backend profits, royalties and whatever credit Bruce is talking about.
Writers have also gone through hell to get to where they are today. In fact, the guild has a lot of very specific criterias when it comes to determining who should get writing credit on a screenplay. They fight on the behalf of their writers. There is no one fighting for Bruce for fleshing out the TLOU universe as a co-creator.
If anything, both the movie and game industries have a lot more in common with each other than any other industry. Hell, the cg studios like ILM and Weta Digital operate exactly like video game studios.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So is Neil. On every single game he's directed. So who is the most prolific director over at Sony?
Thirty7ven
Banned
Games are a studio driven business. Games are software. It has racing games, multiplayer games, live service games. They share as much with the movie industry as they do the software industry.
Your imagination tricks you, the model you are talking about won’t work on games. Things will change sure, but it will never be like the movie industry because games are not built like movies are.
Tripolygon
Banned
That's for you to decide. In my opinion, Naughty Dog is not structured that way, what makes their studio great is the collection of some of the most talented people across various fields that come together to make something special. As much as some people hate Hideo Kojima, he is one of the people i could call the most prolific game directors because he does almost everything, from writing, game design, directing, motion capture work, voice acting, programing etc. His credits are so long.
In terms of TLOU, Neil Druckmann wrote and directed all those cutscenes in the game. That's not to diminish Bruce's role because he is a major part of the game being what it is. But in terms of credit as a writer, its Neil.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
EVERY gaming studio and movie studio works that way. Every movie has a screenwriter, cinematographer, editor, camera men, actors, stunt cordinators, 3-4 assistant directors who lead second units, CG artists who mocap and animate everything and composers who make everything so memorable decades later. Where would spielberg be without John Williams? Or Nolan without Hans Zimmer?
There are like two directors who know how to do every job on the set. David Fincher and Stanely Kubrick. One of them is dead and the other still lets everyone else do their job because even he knows he cant do everything by himself.
You brought up Kojima. Look up the credits on who actually directed the cutscenes in the early MGS games. Look up the story credits. Game design credits. Kojima was not a one man show he is today. I am not the biggest MGS fanboy anymore but I remember the lead writer leaving after MGS3 and the result was a very bloated and very odd MGS4 and MGS5, and everyone pointing to his departure as the key moment when the series storytelling went to shit.
So yeah, even Kojima needed help. Should we find that writer and have him get credited whenever they manage to release the MGS movie? Of course not. The idea was Kojima's. He created the franchise. Others helped him but he was there on day one. Just like Neil and Bruce.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Kind of silly and funny, but also self serving. Only in media do you have people fighting over credits, billing, and 15 minutes of fame.
At Procter & Gamble you got brands that consistently sells billions of dollars every year. At some point in time, a handful of key R&D, product managers and marketing personnel made them, designed the packaging and created the business strategies to make it a success for 10, 20 or 40 years.
You'll never see any of their names on the box, nor have anyone amped up demanding a leaflet inside should have a credits list of the top 100 people. And you definitely wont see someone say "Put my name on the box too please. I worked at the company 15 years ago and was part of development".
Media people have a weird way of expecting fame and fortune.
At Procter & Gamble you got brands that consistently sells billions of dollars every year. At some point in time, a handful of key R&D, product managers and marketing personnel made them, designed the packaging and created the business strategies to make it a success for 10, 20 or 40 years.
You'll never see any of their names on the box, nor have anyone amped up demanding a leaflet inside should have a credits list of the top 100 people. And you definitely wont see someone say "Put my name on the box too please. I worked at the company 15 years ago and was part of development".
Media people have a weird way of expecting fame and fortune.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It's mental to me that this is even potentially happening. While I won't compare it to the dark Knight, I understand your point.
I am actually convinced that a shed load of Sony fans were only really interested and introduced to the brand properly by the ps4....or they just didn't play Uncharted 2 at the time of its release.
Sure there will be loads of us that we're there day one but I just feel others had to not get into the platform until much later or something.
Uncharted 2 was so special, my most hyped game at the time. Its an amazing game and Bruce deserves his props.
It's obvious that if you're not with Sony right now, you're an enemy. Which I find odd.
Last Hearth
Member
Why is this odd to you. This happens everywhere in life, note the popular sports star who leaves the team, sometimes traded so it's not even initiated by them, and the home team fans start hating on the player, particularly if they perform well elsewhere.
The console war people absolutely behave exactly the same as sports fans, except their "team" is now "Sony", or "Nintendo" instead.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't disrespect him as his contribution to those games, I'm dunking on him at the tone deaf BS he tweeted out.Straley disrespect is getting pathetic..
Imagine getting laughted at in videogame forums after being Game Director of things like these:
And UC2 is one of my GOATs.
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Putonahappyface
Member
Edit: wrong thread.
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Roni
Member
Just about every Kojima detractor on GAF.