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[Shtof]

It is hard to comprehend the magnitude of economical failure here.
And it is clear that the alarm didn't sound - cause the gaming industry has no such alarms.

Everything looked great.
The graphics, the gameplay, animations, visual design - to the CEO eye everything looks the same as popular games.
But the demographic that play such games hated it - because it reminds them of societal aspects that they dislike.
Societal aspects that are far out of the developers control, but they still hated it.
To clarify, they hated it for the way it looked, not the way it played.
Because very few people played the beta, and even fewer bought the full release.

And it's not a 'crowded' genre, it's a popular genre.
Most people are dead tired of Overwatch and Call of Duty and would love something fresh to play.

You know the funny part? It's Sony Playstation - among the biggest, most prolific and well-respected game producers in the world.
They should have everything in place to catch this failure early on and avoid the loss.
But they didn't cause there was no way to know.

Now, everybody knows that you can't be too big to fail.
But what can they do to avoid the rage of their key demographic, who feels marginalized in todays society?
Let's hope they can figure it out, or a lot of studios are going down the drain the next few years.

 

[Radical_3d]

Crowded here is relative. When you have a genere that is an 8 hours campaign you have to have a number of games doing the same thing to be crowded. When the genere is about slaving a gamer to a grind machine one game is enough to be crowded. We already have those games.

 

[SJRB]

It’s not hard to comprehend at all, that’s the problem. Everyone outside the bubble of toxic positivity saw this coming from the moment the game was revealed.

 

[Tangerine]

Their first mistake was calling it concord.

That's like naming your new mega cruise ship the Titanic.

 

[LazyParrot]

They've been shivering for a while now. The writing has been on the wall for years. The bigger and more expensive games get, the higher the risk.

 

[jufonuk]

Sadly I don’t think it will be the last of big studios to end up this way. Sorry for those working on it who lost future work.

 

[Phobos Base]

It has to be the biggest financial disaster ever, not just in gaming but all of media. Plenty of films flop, but they don't have to refund everyone who did buy a ticket.

 

[RoboFu]

Nah, they literally made a hero shooter with characters no one wanted to be. That's not an easy thing to fail on.

 

[Shtof]

It’s not hard to comprehend at all, that’s the problem. Everyone outside the bubble of toxic positivity saw this coming from the moment the game was revealed.

Yes, my point is exactly this.

This is the big problem for big gaming companies.
Most of their devs and talent base is left-leaning, while their fanbase is not.
It's not gonna end well.

 

[Minsc]

I don't understand where the budget for this game went.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you could have given a smaller studio 1/20th or even 1/50th the budget and they could have created something similar?

 

[Kabelly]

Yes, my point is exactly this.

This is the big problem for big gaming companies.
Most of their devs and talent base is left-leaning, while their fanbase is not.
It's not gonna end well.

Proof?

edit: it's really telling when the argument that Concord failed was because there were some minorities in the game.

 

[winjer]

It’s not hard to comprehend at all, that’s the problem. Everyone outside the bubble of toxic positivity saw this coming from the moment the game was revealed.

And it seems Sony is going to repeat the same mistake with Fairgame$
So it's a company wide issue.

 

[AmuroChan]

I don't understand where the budget for this game went.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you could have given a smaller studio 1/20th or even 1/50th the budget and they could have created something similar?

Never underestimate the ability of incompetent people to piss away money like that.

 

[Chukhopops]

What it shows is how long dev cycles can really fuck up a project. It really needs to go back to 3-4 years max somehow.

I believe Concord would have been a moderate success a year or two after it was greenlit, but years later the hero shooter genre isn’t as hot, culture wars are more prevalent and you end up with something that feels almost anachronistic.

It’s scary for the future because five years from now the trend can be Multiplayer Loli Mahjong games and everyone is currently developing some stuff no one will want.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sony will survive and people will move on, except for a tiny minority.

If people took the time to thoroughly read that email sent by Hulst, they would've noticed that they will continue their current strategy and learn from the failures of Concord.

So, in the grand scheme of things, this won't change much at all.
It just sends a signal to Sony on Woke.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Any real gamer could see this was a disaster in the making, minus the political crap the game is nothing new and its 5-6 years to late and also $40 when there are plenty of free to play games that look better and have more of an appeal.

It clearly shows whoever is making these decisions have lost touch with their actual audience, either that or just plain greed. Leaning to the latter more.

 

[Kerotan]

I don't understand where the budget for this game went.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you could have given a smaller studio 1/20th or even 1/50th the budget and they could have created something similar?

Didn't they build a team of best in class devs? Probably cost a fortune.

I just hope they recognise the main reason this failed. The diversity BS.

The second reason It's such a crowded market and nobody was asking for a new game here. It's like making a new BR. You may struck gold but the market is so crowded don't expect success.

That suicide squad game with the They/them Mr. Freeze looking mother fucker. That's another failure this year that'll send shivers through the industry.

 

[Kotaro]

What should send them shivering is that most of Western developed games this year flopped, big and small

AAAA:
Suicide Squad, Skull and Bones, SW Outlaws, Concord, and next one is Dragon Age: Veilguard

AA:
Flintlock, Banishers, Dustborn, Unknown 9: Awakening

And they are totally rejected by the market

Successful: Warhammer, Helldiver 2, COD, EA Sports

With 30% success rate, Western gaming industry is not going to survive

 

[RCX]

What it shows is how long dev cycles can really fuck up a project. It really needs to go back to 3-4 years max somehow.

I believe Concord would have been a moderate success a year or two after it was greenlit, but years later the hero shooter genre isn’t as hot, culture wars are more prevalent and you end up with something that feels almost anachronistic.

It’s scary for the future because five years from now the trend can be Multiplayer Loli Mahjong games and everyone is currently developing some stuff no one will want.

Yep it's the risk of following trends rather than trying to make them.

It was what 8 years in the making? How many gaming trends have come and gone in that time.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Without even seeing the cast of characters, this was a waste of development resources. Another me too team shooter, that’s extremely late to the party, and brings nothing to the table.

The ridiculous looking cast was the icing on the cake.

If people truly were tired of Overwatch and other team shooters, they would’ve jumped ship. That’s clearly not the case, no matter how much players might groan about them.

 

[AmuroChan]

And it seems Sony is going to repeat the same mistake with Fairgame$
So it's a company wide issue.

TBF it's not really repeating since those games were in development at the same time. It will be repeating if Sony greenlights another live service game after the Concord debacle.

 

[DaichiChan]

The failure was by my understanding that concord was an Playstation IP and Playstation gamers are somewhat Story focused gamers and don't like this multi-player garbage think... They want storys like God of war and the last of us and uncharted. So when concord was revealed the Playstation audience had no respect for this 400m budget game because the ps5 users waited to long for a new IP to buy another shooter game that they already playing, destiny or overwatch or fortnite or call of duty. They lost instant respect and that spreaded fast. 400m budget alone is crazy enough to show many gamers that Playstation fcked up with this one, they should have made just 3 solo games and everything were fine... Or just port Bloodborne over.
I mean nowadays 1 youtuber reaction is enough to spread the word and thousands over thousand people react

 

[winjer]

TBF it's not really repeating since those games were in development at the same time. It will be repeating if Sony greenlights another live service game after the Concord debacle.

But they could still change course for Fairgame$, even if that meant a delay.

 

[IFireflyl]

The failure was by my understanding that concord was an Playstation IP and Playstation gamers are somewhat Story focused gamers and don't like this multi-player garbage...

Call of Duty is extremely popular on PlayStation, so I think your understanding is flawed. I know you mentioned the players already have these games, but you can't dismiss Concord as being multiplayer while referencing other multiplayer games that do well.

 

[DaichiChan]

Call of Duty is extremely popular on PlayStation, so I think your understanding is flawed. I know you mentioned the players already have these games, but you can't dismiss Concord as being multiplayer while referencing other multiplayer games that do well.

Yes you are right. We'll maybe there's an audience who just loves to play with Colorful characters and play fortnite and overwatch and looked at concord and sayd "ehhhhh" and then there is the Army Force straight to War "Call of duty" player base who doesnt show any interest. I think a lot of aspects destroyed the Concord start

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

The graphics, the gameplay, animations, visual design

All looked terrible, which is why no one played the beta or bought the game.

The failure was by my understanding that concord was an Playstation IP and Playstation gamers are somewhat Story focused gamers and don't like this multi-player garbage think... They want storys like God of war and the last of us and uncharted. So when concord was revealed the Playstation audience had no respect for this 400m budget game because the ps5 users waited to long for a new IP to buy another shooter game that they already playing, destiny or overwatch or fortnite or call of duty. They lost instant respect and that spreaded fast. 400m budget alone is crazy enough to show many gamers that Playstation fcked up with this one, they should have made just 3 solo games and everything were fine... Or just port Bloodborne over.
I mean nowadays 1 youtuber reaction is enough to spread the word and thousands over thousand people react

PS gamers love MP games more than any other console fanbase, just look at sales charts. Put Uncharted 5 or Bloodborne 2 out on the same day as CoD and CoD wins.

 

[AmuroChan]

But they could still change course for Fairgame$, even if that meant a delay.

Probably too late in the game for that. I don't think Sony wants to pour tens of millions of dollars more into restructuring the game.

 

[Shtof]

All looked terrible, which is why no one played the beta or bought the game.

Unless the technical aspects are worse than a Yt video can convey, this is objectively false.
I've seen a few videos, and it looks very professional, as can be expected from a big budget Sony game.

The evidence is clear - none of the execs at Sony who are veterans of the industry saw the failure coming.

 

[Unknown?]

The type of people who created this have no fear. They are there to push an agenda.

 

[//DEVIL//]

There is always a room for good games . No such thing is a crowded genre . Call of duty still sell millions every year and it seems this year is higher than last year even.

But when you have a team full of retards that call people talentless freaks and the other needs to be locked in a mental hospital because they want people to call him or her a professor, then release a game that is 100% woke and ugly characters as fuck with not a single appealing character in the game in the name of diversity. Then you have a management at Sony that support and push for this … then yeah people will fight it and throw it in the garbage.

This is a powerful msg to companies . You do not make games that you like. You do make games that people like and want. Since at the end of the day you want our money. Shove your creative vision up your ass if it’s against morals and human nature and keep it for your self .

I hope more Sony heads get fired as well. But I know for fact they will not push something like that ever again because that means their doom.

I couldn’t be happier when I heard the news . It was music to my ears these fucks got fired. And I pray they never work in the industry or any industry again for that matter.

Go wear some shitty rainbow cloth and do parade and dance in the street ls like an idiot. That’s where u belong .

 

[winjer]

Probably too late in the game for that. I don't think Sony wants to pour tens of millions of dollars more into restructuring the game.

Of course they can.
It's much cheaper, than to lose another 200M.

 

[Sethbacca]

Everything looked great.
The graphics, the gameplay, animations, visual design - to the CEO eye everything looks the same as popular games.
But the demographic that play such games hated it - because it reminds them of societal aspects that they dislike.
Societal aspects that are far out of the developers control, but they still hated it.
To clarify, they hated it for the way it looked, not the way it played.
Because very few people played the beta, and even fewer bought the full release.

And it's not a 'crowded' genre, it's a popular genre.
Most people are dead tired of Overwatch and Call of Duty and would love something fresh to play.

I'm not even one of the anti-woke weirdos and this looked boring and bland from the very first reveal, on top of costing actual $$ in a market of free to play games like Fortnight and Overwatch. The fact that ANYONE thought it was a good idea to release this title is the real head scratcher.

 

[AmuroChan]

Of course they can.
It's much cheaper, than to lose another 200M.

Sure, but they can also lose $250m if the game is still shit after the delay. They have to assess the risk and decide if the game is worth restructuring, or if they should just take their losses now and chalk it up as a tax write off. Haven is an unknown studio with zero games under their belt. What confidence does anyone have that they can just pivot and change this game into something completely different?

 

[Radical_3d]

Probably too late in the game for that. I don't think Sony wants to pour tens of millions of dollars more into restructuring the game.

I’ve said this more than once: the cheapest thing Sony could do with that game is to can it right now.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

TBF it's not really repeating since those games were in development at the same time. It will be repeating if Sony greenlights another live service game after the Concord debacle.

Retarded logic.

Games like The First Descendant, Zenless Zone Zero and Throne and Liberty show that new live service games can be successful.

The problem with Concord was that it wasn't appealing.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Yes, my point is exactly this.

This is the big problem for big gaming companies.
Most of their devs and talent base is left-leaning, while their fanbase is not.
It's not gonna end well.

Has nothing to do with left/right/center leanings.

It's shit management. Devs have no control over the direction of these sorts of games.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Firewalk/Concord is its own disaster, but Sony dropped the ball gunning for GAAS out of nowhere fast. They changed course lately, but their original strategy was by 2025 theyd have 12 new GAAS all at once

- Bungie (bought and in bad shape)
- Firewalk (bought and shut down)
- Neon Koi (bought and shut down)
- Deviation Games (partnership and shut down)
- Various first party GAAS games in dev and cancelled

- Haven (bought and still alive)
- Helldivers 2 (partnership and sequel to 2016 game and did great)

So overall lately with their big focus on new GAAS, they've got one homerun (H2), Bungie which has tanked since buying them (forecasts down 45% and two layoffs), Haven whose Fairgame$ is unknown how good it'll be but people making fun of it already, and a tons of bombs.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Unless the technical aspects are worse than a Yt video can convey, this is objectively false.
I've seen a few videos, and it looks very professional, as can be expected from a big budget Sony game.

The evidence is clear - none of the execs at Sony who are veterans of the industry saw the failure coming.

Of course they didn’t see the failure coming. Why would they have continued making the game and release it if they saw this catastrophic reception happening? And why does it matter anyway? Artists release stuff all the time they think is great and the public says “uh.. no thanks”.

The gameplay videos of Concord looked boring and uninspired, and the gaming community reacted accordingly. Even now as you try to defend your stance, all you can say is it “looked professional”. Uh, cool.

 

[Arachnid]

It is hard to comprehend the magnitude of economical failure here.
And it is clear that the alarm didn't sound - cause the gaming industry has no such alarms.

Everything looked great.
The graphics, the gameplay, animations, visual design - to the CEO eye everything looks the same as popular games.
But the demographic that play such games hated it - because it reminds them of societal aspects that they dislike.
Societal aspects that are far out of the developers control, but they still hated it.
To clarify, they hated it for the way it looked, not the way it played.
Because very few people played the beta, and even fewer bought the full release.

And it's not a 'crowded' genre, it's a popular genre.
Most people are dead tired of Overwatch and Call of Duty and would love something fresh to play.

You know the funny part? It's Sony Playstation - among the biggest, most prolific and well-respected game producers in the world.
They should have everything in place to catch this failure early on and avoid the loss.
But they didn't cause there was no way to know.

Now, everybody knows that you can't be too big to fail.
But what can they do to avoid the rage of their key demographic, who feels marginalized in todays society?
Let's hope they can figure it out, or a lot of studios are going down the drain the next few years.

Why do you line break every sentence?

 

[chromatic9]

A big lesson but gaming has always been a high risk business.

We talked this type of thing happening a while back and I thought something big like Concord would happen, Jaffe was in the thread too I think, regarding Lawbreakers and other games and just how do you make multiplayer successful, how many games can be out at one time, what hook can you have. The idea of it's possible to make a very polished game and it not get any traction, there could be nothing wrong with your game but it just won't turn heads. Other things come into play that is hard to quantify like the appearance overall nature of the game being compelling or not and just being lucky, the way the cookie crumbles, being surplus to requirements. Helldivers 2 did well enough but it doesn't mean we need 5 of those types this year.

It will be continually hard to gets peoples attention from the main handful of games, the prize in doing so can be large if you can wrestle people away from Fortnite and you can also have fairly short but profitable run for 4-6 months, that's what most games do anyway.

I think there has to be some organic way or being very quick to adjust. Coming to the table with a fully fledged game and lore, animations TV spots and stuff is asking for trouble if you're late or have the look wrong. You have to test the waters rather than thinking $200m/400m game will just land.

For me it's just high risk, nuanced and somewhat unquantifiable, there's no recipe or check list to make a multiplayer/service game successful. The extra risk compared to traditional games is how embed a handful games can be for a decade or more.

 

[jason10mm]

It will take 50+ years to get a proper retrospective look at it, but basically we are seeing a multi-year many pronged effort to shift western culture collide and (so far) implode. All the games we are seeing now were influenced by 2020 and what they THOUGHT was gonna be a big change in the player base. Combine that with DEI getting really influential. Add in the ESG scores and cheaper loans. Stir it all with social media allowing echo chambers, particularly in the pre-Musk twitter space. Even if you don't think this was largely orchestrated, its a heady convergence of things that led to BILLIONS being tossed away down the throats of all the grifters that sprung up. Sweet Baby is just one example. Even if some of these groups started with the best intentions, they used guilt and shame to pry their way into industries instead of talent, creativity, and merit.

So the companies that still have the capability to pivot will do so. The ones that can't will just have to ride it out. They were sold a bad bill of goods, promised an audience that doesn't exist, and tried to ride a wave that turned out to be a ripple. The pendulum is swinging back. Hopefully it won't over correct and take us into a reactionary phase of "obnoxious bro-dudes" everywhere, but its possible.

This is how culture changes. Its never really a gradual slide, its almost always a violent (physically or just metaphorically) clash with destruction of existing institutions so new ones can be raised in their place. I think we have seen most of the "gains" that are likely to happen and now the forces of change are splintering since most of them have actually gotten what they wanted.

 

[AmuroChan]

Retarded logic.

Games like The First Descendant, Zenless Zone Zero and Throne and Liberty show that new live service games can be successful.

The problem with Concord was that it wasn't appealing.

Yes, obviously they can be successful. The point is that that's not Sony's area of expertise. Instead of trying to make their own internally, work with external partners who are adept at making these kinds of games. Same for mobile. There was no reason to purchase Neon Koi and try to do mobiles game in house.

 

[Shtof]

Why do you line break every sentence?

It's not a limited resource, and avoids the wall of text look.

Of course they didn’t see the failure coming. Why would they have continued making the game and release it if they saw this catastrophic reception happening? And why does it matter anyway? Artists release stuff all the time they think is great and the public says “uh.. no thanks”.

The gameplay videos of Concord looked boring and uninspired, and the gaming community reacted accordingly. Even now as you try to defend your stance, all you can say is it “looked professional”. Uh, cool.

And all you can say is "boring and uninspired". Very subjective.

 

[SlimySnake]

And it seems Sony is going to repeat the same mistake with Fairgame$
So it's a company wide issue.

And marathon and horizon mp

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A big lesson but gaming has always been a high risk business.

We talked this type of thing happening a while back and I thought something big like Concord would happen, Jaffe was in the thread too I think, regarding Lawbreakers and other games and just how do you make multiplayer successful, how many games can be out at one time, what hook can you have. The idea of it's possible to make a very polished game and it not get any traction, there could be nothing wrong with your game but it just won't turn heads. Other things come into play that is hard to quantify like the appearance overall nature of the game being compelling or not and just being lucky, the way the cookie crumbles, being surplus to requirements. Helldivers 2 did well enough but it doesn't mean we need 5 of those types this year.

It will be continually hard to gets peoples attention from the main handful of games, the prize in doing so can be large if you can wrestle people away from Fortnite and you can also have fairly short but profitable run for 4-6 months, that's what most games do anyway.

I think there has to be some organic way or being very quick to adjust, coming to the table with a fully fledged game and lore, animations TV spots and stuff is asking for trouble you're late or have the look wrong. You have to test the waters rather than thinking $200m/400m game will just land.

I think when it comes to business failures, sometimes it's bad luck and timing. But sometimes it's their own doing.

There is no way anyone at Sony/Firewalk, game reviewers, or any gamer seeing this game for the first time earlier this year can say with a straight face this would be successful. Bad art, bad characters, and laughable pronouns right away killed it. And Concord wasnt even meant to be a fun AA shooter to fill a gap like H2. It was meant to be an IP akin to Star Wars with tons of production values, story and longlasting appeal.

And the fact it had ho hum gameplay and modes wouldnt even able to pull over any gamers on the fence. Even odd things like the beta having no Join In Progress gameplay making teams shorthanded pissed gamers off. And the game itself has odd gameplay I've never seen before like winning a match and then forcing gamers to change to another character. If I'm a sniper gamer, why would I win a match and want to change to a SMG or brute character? Their way of spreading out diversity I guess so gamers have to ensure they play different characters. And a $40 price topped it off.

The best parts of the game were probably the slick animations and it's got production values like story vignettes. But I dont think any shooter fan plays a shooter for stuff like that. They focused too much time, money and attention on aspects of a game no shooter fan cares about.

On the other hand (getting back to bad timing and luck), I can see that happening. If suddenly there's 5 turn based WWII hex games coming out on Steam in a similar time period, 1-2 sell great, the other 3 bomb, and by the looks of it all are kind of similar looking and quality games at the same price, and none of them have budget for any marketing so it's stealth launches. Well maybe in cases like that it's a toss up which game is successful.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yes, obviously they can be successful. The point is that that's not Sony's area of expertise. Instead of trying to make their own internally, work with external partners who are adept at making these kinds of games. Same for mobile. There was no reason to purchase Neon Koi and try to do mobiles game in house.

What makes you say that? Sony has a long history of games with heavy focus on multiplayer, which would be live service games in this day and age.

It's only last-gen where their primary focus was on singleplayer games, but even then they've shown they still know how to make great multiplayer with Uncharted, TLOU and even Ghost of Tsushima.

They're just picking up on a factor they've put on a low.

Edit:

Just realized Uncharted and TLOU started on PS3.

 

[Rudius]

They purposely trying to give buyers what they don't want and expecting to succeed.

 

[AmuroChan]

What makes you say that? Sony has a long history of games with heavy focus on multiplayer, which would be live service games in this day and age.

It's only last-gen where their primary focus was on singleplayer games, but even then they've shown they still know how to make great multiplayer with Uncharted, TLOU and even Ghost of Tsushima.

They're just picking up on a factor they've put on a low.

Edit:

Just realized Uncharted and TLOU started on PS3.

I make a distinction between multiplayer mode in a game vs a standalone live service game. I'm all for MP modes in games. Loved Killzone 3 MP and GoT Legends. Would I pay $40 for just the MP if there wasn't a base SP game? I don't think I would. And I'm not saying Sony should never make a standalone live service game. My point is that they should get some experience first before going all in. Do what they did with Helldivers 2. Work with an external partner who knows how to make these games. Don't rush and bring in these brand new studios like Haven and Firewalk, give them $200m, and then expect them to make some amazing live service game that's going to sell tens of millions of copies.

 

[StueyDuck]

It is hard to comprehend the magnitude of economical failure here.
And it is clear that the alarm didn't sound - cause the gaming industry has no such alarms.

Everything looked great.
The graphics, the gameplay, animations, visual design - to the CEO eye everything looks the same as popular games.
But the demographic that play such games hated it - because it reminds them of societal aspects that they dislike.
Societal aspects that are far out of the developers control, but they still hated it.
To clarify, they hated it for the way it looked, not the way it played.
Because very few people played the beta, and even fewer bought the full release.

And it's not a 'crowded' genre, it's a popular genre.
Most people are dead tired of Overwatch and Call of Duty and would love something fresh to play.

You know the funny part? It's Sony Playstation - among the biggest, most prolific and well-respected game producers in the world.
They should have everything in place to catch this failure early on and avoid the loss.
But they didn't cause there was no way to know.

Now, everybody knows that you can't be too big to fail.
But what can they do to avoid the rage of their key demographic, who feels marginalized in todays society?
Let's hope they can figure it out, or a lot of studios are going down the drain the next few years.

The gaming bubble is gonna burst... no market ever remains infinitely number 1. You could argue youtube and tiktok which are "entertainment" platforms already ate gamings lunch which ate films lunch and so on.

It's up to pubs and devs to adapt and change.

Those who don't, won't be around for very long, or at least as the powerhouses they are now.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Most people are dead tired of Overwatch and Call of Duty and would love something fresh to play.

Wrong. Most people now are incredibly invested in their GAAS of choice due to playing it for years, they will try a new game but always come back to the one where they have accumulated all their skins, items, etc.