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[coldfoot]

Amirox was certainly the best mod to write this story, given all the backtracking and revised statements by Microsoft.

 

[Fantasmo]

NO! That'd work only to a certain extent. But only complete and utter blacklist from the public and the mass at large will discourage these companies from ever executing anti-consumer tactics. If they are out to screw consumers then why should we hesitate to give them Hell for it as wel? And that goes beyond not purchasing their product but making sure that the public are aware that these companies are trying to take away their rights.

Exactly.

And if no one speaks up, they will blame their failure all kinds of inane shit that's totally irrelevant. They do it all the damn time and it's an easy way to save face. And what will happen after that? Things will get worse.

 

[neojubei]

Some of these game journalists have been so hellbent on blaming the consumer to see them defend the anti used game drm crap is not very shocking.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

One issue Amir0x, the Burai link is a copy of Jim Sterling's.

 

[Duxxy3]

I want to know which publishers are at the forefront of this DRM agenda. I want company names, I want the names of the execs who made these decisions.

My first guesses based on the past are EA and Capcom. EA, well, Sim City debacle is still fresh on everyone's mind. Capcom with their Bionic Commando 2 and Final Fight DRM. Ubisoft (Ass Cred 2 came to mind) and Activision are probably on it as well but so far they have no qualm of supporting Wii U, which has none of these DRM bullshit.

EA and Ubisoft seems to be the most obvious.

I don't think Activision is pushing it as hard as people expect. Many of their new sales of CoD are funded by last years version of CoD.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Wow thank god we finally have a hero to tell it like it is.

All Hail mighty Amir0x our glorious leader of freedoms!

If you don't like it don't post.

 

[vareon]

Thanks for compiling this, Amir0x.

 

[crazy buttocks on a train]

Something tells me they had intended the machine to be always connected each second of the day, but due to the initial outrage older leaks from Kotaku and such provoked, they rectified their stance and started relaxing their requirements.

yes

.

 

[Jake Tower]

NO! That'd work only to a certain extent. But only complete and utter blacklist from the public and the mass at large will discourage these companies from ever executing anti-consumer tactics. If they are out to screw consumers then why should we hesitate to give them Hell for it as wel? And that goes beyond not purchasing their product but making sure that the public are aware that these companies are trying to take away their rights.

Exactly. Microsoft, and other companies, seem super eager to collect marketing data from us. This feedback is completely in line with that information. Here it is Microsoft, we are speaking, giving you information that you are hungry to consume and analyze. You would profit by listening to your customers.

 

[Salaadin]

yes

.

Damn.

And this is exactly why these campaigns can be helpful.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Thank you for pointing out exactly why this is so stupid. Microsoft muddied the waters themselves and then back-tracked.

A cynical part of thinks they did it on purpose to confuse consumers on purpose.

 

[la flama blanca]

You're awesome Amir0x!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ascii42]

Excellent recap, I really do wonder when they were planning on telling us this stuff, because it obviously wasn't now (despite it being obvious that they'd be questioned on this stuff).

 

[Terrell]

First, for a company as calculating as Microsoft to muddle their message this badly, it really can't be seen as anything other than obfuscation. I'm pretty sure it's as bad as we think it is.

Second, I've always felt this was an inevitable situation. When I've heard for years how Sony and Microsoft "really cater to the needs of publishers and developers"... well... Sorry, folks, what do you think this is? Microsoft certainly didn't do it for the boon it would have to the sales of their massive stable of 1st party titles.

Amirox was certainly the best mod to write this story, given all the backtracking and revised statements by Microsoft.

I'm no Amir0x fanboy but even I know it's time to let that shit go.

 

[Superior]

Nvm.

 

[Lunar15]

I still have to wonder... is Sony planning much of the same stuff? To be honest, if they weren't they would have come out full force in saying so after the Xbox One reveal.

 

[jschreier]

Something tells me they had intended the machine to be always connected each second of the day, but due to the initial outrage older leaks from Kotaku and such provoked, they rectified their stance and started relaxing their requirements.

I've heard things from a couple of different people that lead me to believe this too!

 

[CitizenCope]

It's not like this thing is coming out in two weeks. Not a soul here has put down a dime for it. It's so early you couldn't choose with your wallet if you wanted to.
Be patient and you'll get your answers?

 

[StreetsAhead]

As an addition MS also gave the wrong first impression, by focusing on T.V. services.

I know, I know "wait for E3", but really they killed the small gap between the reveal and E3, and have maybe for an entire generation marked the Xbox One as the "T.V. Box".

There is no excuse. Getting stuff people don't like about E3 out of the way by conducting a conference of just that stuff at a console reveal was a strategy/marketing decision - "The Xbox is about T.V. and services" and not a favor to gamers.

 

[i-Lo]

I know I'm going to be buying a PS4 (day 1) and that in terms of hardware and courting the devs Sony has done what it failed to do this gen and the one before. That said, if other ancillary aspects are obfuscated that leaves us in confusion (and seem anti consumerist) after E3, GAF should tear them a new one.

 

[grosvenor_92]

lol sure seems like it

 

[painful fart]

Fantastic work by OP!

That compilation gives a good summary of some epic fail by MS. The amount of shit they are spreading is certainly of epic proportions.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I know I'm going to be buying a PS4 (day 1) and that in terms of hardware and courting the devs Sony has done what it failed to do this gen and the one before. That said, if other ancillary aspects are obfuscated that leaves us in confusion (and seem anti consumerist) after E3, GAF should tear them a new one.

I still have some concerns/potential concerns about the PS4 - forced downloads, data collection, camera being 'always on', using my real name, and so on, but my household is much more likely to buy one at this point in time over the Xbone. That can change of course.

 

[Gummb]

A lot of work went into this, obviously. It's a great summation of all the confusion and anger and it has a clear message. Very good work.

The last part is my favorite - the media and their role in legitimizing Microsoft's efforts. I wish I had access to more information on the motives behind these statements, but there is definitely a push toward acceptance and hype of the Xbox One with a strong diminishing effect of any negative opinions. Of course, all media outlets strive to do this in the interest of servicing those who grant them information and perhaps payment.

 

[Neuromancer]

Demodded, not denutted indeed. Good work Amir0x. It's nice having all their cock-ups in one post. What the hell is going on with MS, how did they think this was a good way to reveal their new product? It's a disaster that eclipses Sony's embarassing 2006 E3 presentation in every possible way.

 

[televator]

The OP

 

[GhaleonEB]

Lets see if they can get through speaking about additions/changes to Gold and any forced social features.

With a Kinect in every box and always connected, giving users the ability to quickly navigate directly to their destination with voice alone makes me wonder where the ad placements are going to be this time around. I expect devious and semi-intrusive, yet small and quick.

There are still a few potential minefields ahead of them - I can only hope that the current wagon circling means they're doing their homework this time.

I'm still baffled at how they managed to not address any of the rumors in their announcement, and actually manage to make things even more confusing after. They knew what everyone was going to zero in on well in advance, and still stepped in it.

I'm tempted to say they'll straighten it all out at E3, but then I thought they'd straighten it all out at the announcement. Not the games, but the platform and service level stuff. But no.

 

[jvm]

I'll say what I've said in another thread, re: Harrison's use of the word "new".

I think that's a reference to doing a trade near game release. At that time, the fee structure will be different than for, say, a game that was 12 months on the market already.

The pricing structures will be much more aggressive this generation, and Xbox One's fee structure will be part of that.

Edit: Also, I'm only halfway through OP, but nice job Amir0x. I love it when GAF members are productive in precisely this kind of way.

 

[Gummb]

I think this is also a great lesson on where news is made, what becomes legitimate news, and how the media can take negative opinions and turn them into irrational, or un-thoughtful accounts of that news. Anyone who attempts to silence or delegitimize negative opinions of the xbox one is attempting to appear more thoughtful or more legitimate, but that just is not the truth (Adam Sessler... *cough*).

 

[neojubei]

Publishers are probably pushing for this DRM bullcrap so I don't doubt that Sony will go along with this as well. And we might like to think that these CEO and executives are out of touch, well they are not, they only have one goal to make money. They only care about how much money their company is making and making their shareholders happy.

Sony is going to say its up to the publishers but we and they know they will implement the same system for all games.

When this happens I am out of the gaming hobby. I might just stick with playing games on my ipad and iphone.

 

[Tiops]

And that's basically why I'm not buying this shit. It's not just about used games, it looks like everything is wrong with it. If Microsoft ends up "winning" this generation, I can't imagine what they'll throw at us then.

 

[Gummb]

Publishers are probably pushing for this DRM bullcrap so I don't doubt that Sony will go along with this as well. And we might like to think that these CEO and executives are out of touch, well they are not, they only have one goal to make money. They only care about how much money their company is making and making their shareholders happy.

Sony is going to say its up to the publishers but we and they know they will implement the same system for all games.

When this happens I am out of the gaming hobby. I might just stick with playing games on my ipad and iphone.

If this is truly the case, then why did Nintendo turn down the offer (if what you say about the publishers is true)? There is a legitimate business in appealing to core customers... believe it or not.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Wow thank god we finally have a hero to tell it like it is.

All Hail mighty Amir0x our glorious leader of freedoms!

Microsoft would have far less trouble had they someone with Amir0x's public consistency and grounded principles.

It's the most forward, complete proposition about gaming hardware that we've yet seen (Nintendo zig-zags with its hardware, I'd argue), and software is determined by hardware. Amir0x ably summarized so that people can clearly conceive 1 presentation of the facts. I think it's the right interpretation of a stullifying future.

 

[Freshmaker]

I'll say what I've said in another thread, re: Harrison's use of the word "new".

I think that's a reference to doing a trade near game release. At that time, the fee structure will be different than for, say, a game that was 12 months on the market already.

Bizarre theory given MS's Live on Demand pricing.

 

[Amir0x]

Wow thank god we finally have a hero to tell it like it is.

All Hail mighty Amir0x our glorious leader of freedoms!

It's actually you have Microsoft to tell you how it is... three, four, five or six different ways... but, at least one of those ways are sure to be how it is. Eventually.

Amirox was certainly the best mod to write this story, given all the backtracking and revised statements by Microsoft.

Every person is a liar and every person is a sinner, so cast ye thy stone if ye feels like it, but let's move on already

One issue Amir0x, the Burai link is a copy of Jim Sterling's.

Thank you. Link is now correct and points to Burai's post. There's actually two posts in that topic that are worth noting. And I've seen at least three other amazingly thought out neoGAF rants that are worth highlighting. Maybe I'll toss them into the end of the OP as a bonus at some later point tonight.

yes

.

Dang. So here's hoping continued pressure can get Sony and Microsoft to divert further. Gamer rage does work, people. <3 buttocks

First, for a company as calculating as Microsoft to muddle their message this badly, it really can't be seen as anything other than obfuscation. I'm pretty sure it's as bad as we think it is.

Second, I've always felt this was an inevitable situation. When I've heard for years how Sony and Microsoft "really cater to the needs of publishers and developers"... well... Sorry, folks, what do you think this is? Microsoft certainly didn't do it for the boon it would have to the sales of their massive stable of 1st party titles.


I'm no Amir0x fanboy but even I know it's time to let that shit go.

I have to hope that they are still casting nets here to see exactly how far they can go. I have to hope that's the case. Otherwise, why would they have backed off even as much as they did (see: buttocks on a train)? Something is getting through to them, no?

 

[Radec]

And that's basically why I'm not buying this shit. It's not just about used games, it looks like everything is wrong with it. If Microsoft ends up "winning" this generation, I can't imagine what they'll throw at us then.

Next next gen:

-$80 games
-$100/m XBLive Gold
-Always Online
-Once the game has been installed on a system, it can never be installed or played on other system. Unless you pay full price fee.

 

[Brera]

I can imagine the suits at Ms coming out with this shit but Phil harrisson is an experienced dude....seeing him cow tow the company line is s sad sad end to his career.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I think one of the more fascinating things about this whole fiasco is that it's probably the most severe console-centric backlash not steeped in fanboyism but rather general industry concern.

Sure there's a few twats on both ends, but most of it has been backlash from people who care about gaming as a whole, which is a nice change at least.

 

[xbhaskarx]

I'm guessing the new Xbox will do just fine despite these early stumbles. At least these problems are pre-launch, the last one did fine despite the whole RROD thing.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Glorious thread. I'd be lying if I said this whole thing hasn't been deliciously messy, but I hate what it all could potentially mean to gaming.

I really hope gamers standing up to themselves will cause MS to rollback on these crazy policies.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I can imagine the suits at Ms coming out with this shit but Phil harrisson is an experienced dude....seeing him cow tow the company line is s sad sad end to his career.

I don't know. I'm starting to remember stuff like his dismissal of rumble early on. And the turnaround PS3 had around the time he left. I honestly don't know.

 

[Gummb]

I'm guessing the new Xbox will do just fine despite these early stumbles. At least these problems are pre-launch, the last one did fine despite the whole RROD thing.

This is interesting, but you have to wonder how the digital landscape has changed since then and how messages can so often become available widely on facebook, twitter, and reddit. I am confident that unless Microsoft takes steps to alter its policies, the rhetoric we are using today will be available and legitimate several years from now.

 

[Stripper13]

A very good write up.

Jim Sterling's annoyed gamer post was outstanding and sums up my thoughts exactly.

 

[Amir0x]

Ghaleon--

I think our own experience has taught us that, at times, MS can be a hydra. a beast of many heads and different brains, with disparate thoughts that, at times, contradict one-another before a consensus is finally reached. It honestly is no wonder that more concerning questions were raised than were answered last week.

Now, I will say this much - I still know some people within the company, and I truly do NOT envy the position they have been placed in by people in positions higher than their own. As such, I won't ever share Amirox's animosity, occasionally appropriate though it may be, as it is the decision of a a marked few that, at the end of the day, force the rest to toe the company line. Not only was this a failure on the part of MS's executive team, but from a marketing and PR perspective it was a blunder that very truly have cost them a great deal of goodwill amongst their staunchest supporters.

The concerning nature of some of the directions they are taking with this machine are only half the story. The obfuscation of their greater message, mired in layers of double-speak and contradictory statements, IMO, is MORE concerning as, for the first time I can remember, it conveys a company with no clear idea of what the fuck it is doing.

I honestly think E3 is the last chance they have to shore up a leaky ship, and pull their videogame business back from the brink. Otherwise, while we may not see the Xbox division disappear, we will rather see it morph into something heretofore unrecognizable, as an entertainment box without a clear guiding principle.

What I am most curious about is exactly how much pressure Microsoft would reassert, via the sheer poundage of unique exclusive game experiences, to break the will of what seems to be a pretty unified front at the moment? They know they have tons of games, we know they have tons of games. But if they show those tons of games at E3, will that be enough to get the majority of gamers to be quiet about what they found out on May 21?

I only hate the practices surrounding the Xbox One and its anti-consumer measures, but if they were the eliminate most of them or dramatically reduce their impact, I'd be on board again. The problem is I'm not sure Microsoft have enough time to fully turn the ship around from the direction they've started to. All I can do is cross my fingers...

 

[heyf00L]

^Indeed. This has been a huge blunder. Maybe E3 will change things, but it looks like they've drawn the line and now we need to decide if we'll cross it.

I think the "Maybe no used games will enable Steam-like sails" thing is completely stupid. Even when Steam was the only real digital service, it was competing against retail. Now it's competing against other services and a dwindled retail. The Xbone is a closed platform. They're not competing with anyone (to sell Xbone games). Besides, "maybe" isn't a very compelling argument.

But Sony hasn't really defined their position yet either, keep that in mind.

 

[Neuromancer]

yes

.

God damn what the fuck MS.

I find it hard to believe at one time it was going to be worse than it is now, but I believe you implicitly cboat.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

There's also the fourth tragedy of Microsoft abandoning its tech focus for pure gaming and instead investing system space into ensuring enough resources could be given to non-gaming multi-tasking that I don't think is ultimately very exciting or even useful.

I also have a feeling that gamers will be really surprised at the rather high price tag...$500 sounds about right from the rumors. PS4 could come in significantly cheaper.

 

[Deku Tree]

Yup that about sums it up.

I came into this Durango reveal expecting to be a day one xbone owner, and I came out of it with no desire to ever own any xbone.

I also don't want to pay for any must be on kinect system.

 

[REV 09]

Technically none of that was part of their reveal.

They showed some exciting things and this drm shit is all the board can talk about. : /

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Technically none of that was part of their reveal.

They showed some exciting things and this drm shit is all the board can talk about. : /

What exactly was exciting about what they showed?