Reading up on hospital births cost in the US, I'm surprised more people aren't opting for home birth!
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/09/opinion/declercq-childbirth-costs/
Wouldn't be surprised if doctors got bonuses for doing more C-sections.
My wife is a licensed veterinary nurse, and I know from her experiences that veterinarians get kickbacks on how much they upsell at some places. :-( I wish all businesses would completely do away with these things.
My daughter's life flight ride alone cost 20,000 dollars. Luckly, March of Dimes ponied up for that.
That is great to hear! I know the cost of the child was a major concern of ours. Especially since I had to find us a new home over the summer to fit all three of us comfortably.
Wow grats! Don't forget vaccinations
We won't!
The what?
Please list them.
...
I listed them in the OP. If you're really curious, and not just being contrary, I recommend reading a book on the subject.
Grats!
Spartan Elder Test?
Where did you get the idea that it was based on hand clamping?
Great question...it was either from a professor of ancient Greek philosophy I had in college, or from Gates of Fire:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0553580531/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Probably the same place he thought being compressed by a vagina is the only way you can bond to your parent, ignoring the fact that kids can bond to their dad and bond to adoptive parents...
You can look up "hormone cocktail" on Google and find a lot - there are also bacterial benefits gained through vaginal birth. Unfortunately, these things are not well-researched by the medical community. But a lack of research is not a lack of evidence, unless you are one of those weird people that needs science to confirm anything before you believe in it.
His statement was hyperbole, obviously, but the basis of it isn't. Is there any evidence that a vaginal birth vs. c-section helps a baby imprint at a higher rate?
There are actually a ton of studies showing various negative consequences - some guaranteed, some merely probability - of c-section births.
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20130211/c-section-formula-may-disrupt-good-gut-bacteria-in-babies
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090629081443.htm
Recent research has shown that having a c-section correlates with difficulty breastfeeding, which is as close to an objective "imprint" marker as you can get without neurological data:
http://www.bestforbabes.org/science...h-breastfeeding-problems-say-two-new-studies/
I know my own sister had a c-section, and she experienced immense post-partum depression, a complete disconnect from her infant for a week, and gave up breast feeding attempts after a day. I know most of GAF will say "that's just an anecdote", but in an industry (ew, an industry) with so much money involved, and so little research occurring about what's good for babies (which is insane, when you think about it), I value anecdotes quite a bit, especially from people close to me. Good hospitals recognize the vast research showing the potential harm of c-section delivery, and attempt to minimize it.
Less than 10% of hospitals in the USA are certified as "baby-friendly" by the World Health Organization:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a86998-34c4-11e4-a723-fa3895a25d02_story.html
Many hospitals really do try to force c-sections:
http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2015/07/differences-hospital-quality-childbirth
It's really hard to measure imprinting, however. To quote one site about epidurals:
https://www.birthinternational.com/articles/birth/15-epidurals-real-risks-for-mother-and-baby-
"Several studies have found subtle but definite changes in the behaviour of newborn babies after epidural36 37 38 with one study showing that behavioural abnormalities persisted for at least six weeks39. Other studies have shown that, after an epidural, mothers spent less time with their newborn babies40, and described their babies at one month as more difficult to care for41."
Would need more studies and a higher sample size. I'd like to read the scientific journal but it appears you have to pay for it. It would be good to know how they are explaining the brain activity, how much higher or deeper the activity is, and if it is even necessary.
It's incredibly difficult to measure these things. However, I believe that the most important things in life are either difficult to measure, or impossible to measure. Perhaps as science advances, we will develop a full systematic map of the human brain and a process for completely monitoring chemical releases, but it's not here right now. I would love for that to be the case, though.
It's not exactly a crazy concept, the gist of it is that the pain of childbirth signals the brain to release oxytocin in large quantities, which plays a big role in mother-child bonding. It's also released during breastfeeding. As far as being necessary, that kids are born via c-section and develop fine would point to 'no', wouldn't it.
Not just oxytocin!
http://www.desertsagedoula.com/doula-blog/36-the-hormonal-cocktail-of-birth
A natural, vaginal birth is definitely not "necessary", but I do think it is the best option for those that are able to swing it. For those that aren't, I would hope they never feel dismayed by their situation.
There are no spoiler tags on mobile so congrats you and omg the pics
I have to agree with those who said your account comes off as evangelical. You downplay the safety a hospital provides in case of unexpected trouble and make claims as fact when they aren't.
If your midwife is skilled and experienced, there is rarely "unexpected trouble". Many people talk about the umbilical cord being wrapped around the head, but our midwife told me that in 70% of her deliveries, the cord is wrapped around the head. She has never had a problem unraveling it and moving on.
I really do adore contentful posts like yours that make a vague claim like I'm not being factual, but don't even take the time to ask what isn't a fact, and don't provide any counter-points.
Congrats on the baby. We had ours in the hospital but the whole process from arriving to the hospital, to the baby being outside breathing took just 30 minutes so we were quite lucky, haha! I couldn't get myself to cut the umbilical cord though, as I'm kinda weak for that stuff and I was already tired enough (it was late at night).
No epidural nor any sort of medicine either, as in Japan it seems like they like going natural whenever possible. The mom spent 5 days at the hospital recovering and getting assistance from the nurses 24/7 and awesome food (not your typical hospital food, but some pretty tasty-looking stuff) after that back home so it was great. I wonder how it works in the US and other countries though...
Edit: I regret clicking on that last pic though
Oh man, I thought the umbilical cord would be tough for me. I'm a bit squeamish myself (at least compared to my wife - she has seen so many dead, cut-apart animals that she's desensitized to this stuff). I found it pretty easy to cut, but I was terrified of making the actual cuts. Scissors right next to my newborn baby, and he was swinging his arms around wildly - aaaahhhhh!
In the USA, most hospitals are fond of drugging you up and cutting the baby out ASAP to maximize their income. We truly are the nation that worships money above all else. There's actually a documentary on this called "The Business of Being Born", if you are curious. It's very US-focused in its research.
Where do you get off telling him he was stupid? If they still ran the batter of neonatal tests and care up until birth with everything looking fine, and they had a licensed midwife present (which they did) its perfectly fine.
Homebirths as less stressful for the mother which does in fact result in less pain. A compromise for people who don't want homebirth and who don't want the clinical nature of traditional hospital births can opt for an in-hospital water birth with the stipulation of no painkillers and no labor inducers (long labor is required to prevent vaginal tearing) and not to take the child away before breastfeeding the first time.
Yeah, some of the stuff I'm saying is just logical. What's more comfortable: your home, or a hospital bed? I think the main reason people feel they need a hospital is that we are a civilization now largely ignorant of a natural, biological process. As such, we appeal to experts to tell us how it needs to be done.
This thread has been.... interesting. And quite informative. Congrats, Karst!
My family joked with my brother and his wife about eating the placenta (at Christmas dinner smh), but I don't know if they ended up doing it. They had the baby back in March.
Let me know if they did it, and how!
Just to make sure we are 100% clear, are you saying you are going to eat the placenta?
Done.
Congrats! Three home births here and it is totally the way to go (for low risk, healthy births).
Now you need to do one unassisted. Our second was accidentally unassisted. Labour was only a couple hours and the baby showed up before the midwife.
I caught my daughter as she shot right out. The worst part was having to cut the cord. Grossest thing ever.
Unassisted? Whew, that terrifies me. I don't know if I could handle that stress. Maybe if my non-home life was more relaxed, I could handle it. Working full-time and being a full-time student makes it difficult for me to handle much more, unfortunately.
What made cutting the cord so gross for you? Did you clamp it beforehand?
I dunno. He's leery of vaccinations, wants to home school, is for unspecified reasons worried about technology, and is making placenta into jerky and pills -- I'm comfortable with my initial assessment. I'm not going to pretend that I support people willfully turning away proper medical care just because they've got some hangup about the "clinical" nature of a hospital. To each their own, but I'm not going to pretend like I respect the decision.
Even presuming you have amazing odds for the world's easiest delivery, is it really worth risking your child's life on the off chance something goes wrong? A midwife is better than nothing, but it still doesn't compare to the staff and technology available at a hospital. A 10 second Google search can quickly reveal:
In 2014, a comprehensive review in the Journal of Medical Ethics of 12 previously published studies encompassing 500,000 planned home births in low-risk women found that perinatal mortality rates for home births were triple that of hospital births.
Justify it however you like, but I wouldn't be comfortable rolling the dice like that with someone's life. They were -- kudos to them that everything went okay.
Sometimes, you have to risk a life to ensure it has the highest quality of life. That's a risk I was willing to take.
Let's assume that mortality rates in home births are triple hospital births. According to one site, hospital birth mortality is ~0.1%. So we're talking about ~0.3% mortality rates - is that really a sufficiently large concern? If it were a jump from 10% to 30%, I'd totally agree with you, but a fraction of a percent to a fraction of a percent is a negligible risk growth.
Also, I am not big on hospital-wide or homebirth-wide statistics. Every hospital is different. As I believe I mentioned previously, the hospital near us (Memoral Hospital Central) is among the 10% of baby-friendly hospitals in the USA. If we had to go there, I feel we would be in good hands. Just as hospitals vary in quality, midwives do as well. Our own midwife has never had a mortality, and she has been doing this for decades. Given that the
important statistic here is the success rate of our midwife, and not planned home births throughout the planet, I don't view it as an increased risk. Even if we were comparing flat statistics, a planned home birth is not necessarily a midwife-guided birth. You're going to get all kinds of people like Christian Scientists mixed in there, who don't believe in any medicine at all. That's not really a fair grouping for comparison's sake.
Leery of vaccinations? I was really specific about this. I was oversensitive to vaccinations and contracted a disease with a 30% mortality rate as a result when I was an infant. The sensitivity to this disease has genetic markers that my son might share. You bet your ass I'm going to be conservative with administering vaccinations. I would be an idiot not to. I have a STEM degree - I'm not anti-science.
I'm also a teacher; I am comfortable home-schooling my son. My wife and I have almost 6 college degrees between us. We are more than able to give him an educationally rich environment that will also be emotionally nourishing. I doubt any school could provide the same (especially in Colorado, where only 77% of the population finishes high school).
Yeah, not gonna watch that, sorry. BUT: Wanted to ask how lil Roman is doing?
He chilling?
He's great! Very chill baby. He gets fussy when he has trouble latching, and when we change him. He really likes me rubbing his head, holding his hands, and saying his name in my baritone voice. Thank you for asking - amid all the posts, I think you're the only person to ask how the baby is doing.
I don't see anything wrong with this. If anything its fascinating. I had no idea you could turn a placenta into pills, I'm curious what exactly the benefits of consuming it are since I have no idea.
Congrats on the successful home birth, OP
I also have no idea of what the benefits are. There might be
no benefits. There hasn't ever been a scientific study on it, despite placenta consumption being widely practiced in many areas of the world. Isn't that wild?
Here's what the anecdotal claim is:
http://www.webmd.com/baby/should-i-eat-my-placenta
"People who support eating the placenta say that it can raise your energy and breast milk quantity. They also say it can level off your hormones, lowering your chances of postpartum depression and insomnia."
We got the pills today - we'll see how they affect her. She is supposed to take 9 placenta pills a day for the next 3 days, and then lower it to 6.
Congrats on the baby.
Is this a form of cannibalism?
I consider it one.
Karsticles, watch Dumplings. Great horror film, you'd love it especially after that video in the OP.
Will do, but I won't be able to watch anything scary for a long time, I think. :-/
Congrats I guess, but how about a fucking warning about the pics next time.
You act like I posted a picture of a spider, or something.
Honest question ; what is wrong with you? Why on earth would you or anyone want to eat a placenta? What century is this?
You actually admitted to having an obsession with cannibalism and no one called you out on it. It's just congrats all around. What the actual fuck, GAF. This is easily one of the sickest things I've read on GAF but everyone is overlooking it because, yay, a baby was born? Forget the gross pics, people... he ate human flesh.
Yeah, sorry. No congrats here, cannibal.
Haha, my wife and I got a good laugh out of this. Thank you.
I LOVE this movie. Going to watch it tonight while working on lesson plans.
Glad it went well but you seem like you are heading to being one of those unbearable preachy parents that criticise and look down on any that don't breastfeed / baby carry etc, after one day that's pretty impressive going.
Also the placenta thing is mad weird to me. I get that it's an old tradition but when you combine it with the fact you say you have an obsession with canibalism it takes an extremely creepy turn IMO.
Home births seem a nice experience though I have to say; though an experience that would likely have killed my wife and son.
Thanks for the character profile.
Fuck this, my wife and I are going to the hospital. And that placenta happy meal... Nah.
Glad everything went well for you though, and I'm confident that if your plane was to ever crash in the Andes you would survive, the other passengers on the other hand...
The question is: how do I convince everyone they will be safe while picking them off one-by-one?
If you are going to a hospital, I recommend you do research about how baby-friendly it is. Some hospitals really are nightmares, and others are wonderful.
Congratulations!
My wife attempted a home birth for our first. Ended up with a c- section four days later. Thankful for modern medicine in our case.
I am glad everything went well for you!
<3
A friend of mine had one unintentionally. Third kid and they were all packed up and ready to leave at a moment's notice. They were watching some Netflix in bed, getting ready for sleep when boom. Apparently she either had very weak contractions compared to normal or just waited too long.
She never left the bed, it happened so fast. Thankfully my friend is a trained police officer and first aid type. He delivered his own kid within 15 fucking minutes.
Two nurses came from the local hospital an hour later and checked the baby out, weighed it, etc, checked out mom. Things were cool.
I was still shocked they didn't bring them to the hospital immediately afterwards - like you legally have to be in the hospital after giving birth, no matter where, but I guess as long as mom and baby are good, it's like "move along, nothing to see here".
All I can say is: woah.
What country do you live in? I've never heard a claim that you "legally have to be in the hospital after giving birth". That's definitely not the case in the USA. We won't go to a pediatrician until later next week, most likely.
