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[mrkgoo]

I think it's hilarious that the EIC of an iPhone gaming site is accusing GAF of being too hardcore to buy games. Both because that makes no sense and because there's a massive chunk of iPhone gamers who think anything more than a dollar or two for any app/game is a ripoff.

I've probably spent more on Ace Attorney games than the average Touch Arcade user has spent on iOS games.

It was just a petty comment that he used to get others riled up. I tend to ignore random comments that people say just to troll.

That said, I believe he has a fair sentiment. Kickstarter is cool in theory, but it does encourage random ideas to be thrown out there. I think what he missed about it is that that is the WHOLE point. Fine, if you don't believe in Kickstarter projects, then don't pledge. The whole point about it is that it's like a democracy - each user decides for themselves and decisions made based on a collective. If it truly is a joke, then that will come out at the end.

I don't see the need to be so verbally abusive about disliking something like that. That said, this is the Internet, and even EICs can have a bad day, right? Everyone has the occasional meltdown.

As for other comments related to GAF, again, this is the internet. It's easy and fun trolling, I suppose, to take a comment and label an entire community. You guys are part of the Internet, right? Then you should KNOW this is the norm.

Yes, GAF is hardcore. And yes, there is a component of that that makes us elitist, nearly by definition. We users who treat gaming as near damned lifestyle, participating on an online forum that is slightly exclusive actually does make us the elite to an extent. There's nothing wrong with at. I guess people just hate being labeled. Thing is, I get labeled here all the time. Apple fanboy. Angry Bird lover. Not directly and personally, but as a passing comment to my personality in general. I take no heed of it.

I,m also a member of Touch Arcade, and while I don't participate as much over there, I find my own value in what they do. Reviews and news are interesting. Forum opinions are interesting, and can offer some broad advice.

That said, the community aspect is not what I look for there. I got turned away by the constant pandering to developers there - it's no longer tolerated to ask for codes, but the feeling is always there. And I absolutely HATE the way users sit around constantly hoping others try the new games and 'TOFTT' (take one for the team), as if buying a 99c game is a huge sacrifice for the good of all - it's exactly what is wrong with the AppStore, translated into forum mentality. Not to mention that the notion of Team is so far off mark, when it's just a bunch of people hoping other people take the hit. For sure, I might be a hypocrit, because I don't make the plunge to buy apps straight away all that often, but the difference is I don't have the expectation that others do so.

So as with all Internet sites, including this one, it has its pros and cons. I'll still visit as I always have, and extract what I find useful from it.

But you guys should check out Slide To Play. Their site isn't particularly stand out, but the guys there seem really great and fun.

 

[charlequin]

Besides the promo codes, they have an allotment of slots for "testing" for which they need to supply device IDs. They can also give promo codes outside of their initial allotment if they pay for more codes, costing them 30% of the price (they recoup 70% of the price), and those codes count on the sales charts when they are redeemed. Freemyapps, freeappdaily, etc. give thousands of codes out each day, that they pay for.

Yeah, I wasn't saying it was impossible, just that it's a big challenge. Pre-sales to Kickstarter customers generally involve providing the app at a discount to start with (otherwise there's very little pull to participate); if you're giving people access to a $10 app for $5, paying that Apple cut will leave you with just $2 per pledge -- inefficient at best.

Also, I can't actually find any evidence of a specific, Apple-approved program for buying extra promo codes (just people talking about bulk-purchasing their own app and redistributing it) and AFAICT promo codes still don't count towards download/rankings or allow you to rate/review apps anyway.

Railing against Kickstarter is bizarre, because it's use is addressing a big problem in the industry which is the disappearance of the mid-tier of gaming.

A pretty large volume of the completely unhinged ranting about Kickstarter that the video gaming community has seen recently (and that other fields like comics, tabletop gaming, pop music, etc. went through when those communities first started picking up on KS) comes from people in one of a few categories:

• People with maladaptive levels of social or financial paranoia who constantly think everyone is running a scam on them
• People who enjoy being against things other people like
• People who are bitter about their own experiences in a given industry and don't like seeing others find success
• People who are so invested, financially or emotionally, in the success of massive, faceless conglomerates that they reflexively oppose anything that might help people outside the system
• People with a poor understanding of capitalism who somehow draw the conclusion that Kickstarter is anti-capitalist (rather than one of the purer expressions of capitalist funding in a pure, low-friction environment)
• People with a poor understanding of entertainment and technology industries and therefore think going to your customers with hat in hand is begging but going to friends, family, and anonymous VCs to do the same song-and-dance magically is admirable and entrepreneurial

(I might be missing one.)

There are plenty of people who just reasonably find the risk/reward ratio on Kickstarter undesirable, or who feel like the kinds of things they like are already pretty successful so they don't care about funding people's projects, or any one of several other reasonable reasons to be uninterested in participating, but I would wager most of these people just register their disinterest once and move on.

 

[DCharlie]

I don't understand why everything onto the net has to devolve into a fight with insults being thrown everywhere. Why can't we have a conversation like regular damn people?

... did you just call my mother a slut?!? #wavesfist


Kickstarter for me in a nut shell :

* financial backing of gaming usually sees smaller teams going to publishers asking for cash
* in many cases games that we , the gaming public, would like to see do not get funded due to lack of publisher interest due to a perceived lack of market and disappear forever
* Kickstarter comes along - a new financial backing system is in place where smaller teams can ask the general public to fund the project
* in this case there the -target gaming community- can decide whether or not there is a market for the game or not

I just don't see why this is a bad thing. I see the "half of these kickstarts are <this> , they don't have anything blah blah blah" argument - but that's the beauty of it all : those seem to be getting found out becuase they don't hit their targets.

My main concern is that Kickstarter will start getting over subscribed with projects i'm interested in - I never imagined we'd have ever EVER see Wasteland 2 but now that's happening and i have to pinch myself that that's the case.

 

[Aselith]

A pretty large volume of the completely unhinged ranting about Kickstarter that the video gaming community has seen recently (and that other fields like comics, tabletop gaming, pop music, etc. went through when those communities first started picking up on KS) comes from people in one of a few categories:

• People with maladaptive levels of social or financial paranoia who constantly think everyone is running a scam on them
• People who enjoy being against things other people like
• People who are bitter about their own experiences in a given industry and don't like seeing others find success
• People who are so invested, financially or emotionally, in the success of massive, faceless conglomerates that they reflexively oppose anything that might help people outside the system
• People with a poor understanding of capitalism who somehow draw the conclusion that Kickstarter is anti-capitalist (rather than one of the purer expressions of capitalist funding in a pure, low-friction environment)
  [*]People with a poor understanding of entertainment and technology industries and therefore think going to your customers with hat in hand is begging but going to friends, family, and anonymous VCs to do the same song-and-dance magically is admirable and entrepreneurial
  

(I might be missing one.)

There are plenty of people who just reasonably find the risk/reward ratio on Kickstarter undesirable, or who feel like the kinds of things they like are already pretty successful so they don't care about funding people's projects, or any one of several other reasonable reasons to be uninterested in participating, but I would wager most of these people just register their disinterest once and move on.

This is a particularly weird one to me because the reason games get focus tested to death and stuff like that is because developers are either pandering to their corporate backers by changing the game to what they think it should be or they're focus testing it to death themselves in order to make it what the believe their audience wants it to be but don't realize that pulling random people off the street is not talking to your audience.

Basically, the only thing I've seen developers change based on Kickstarter feedback is pricing structure and platform. No one has changed content to suit the people that I've seen and I don't think anyone would. They want to make their vision and it's up to you if your interested in that.

Saying they're pandering because they are willing to add additional platforms is somewhat insane.

But even be that as it may, if content were on the table I'd rather have developers pandering to some subset of people actually buying the game than a corporation or randoms off the street.

 

[zroid]

• People with maladaptive levels of social or financial paranoia who constantly think everyone is running a scam on them

The extent to which I have seen this over the last few weeks has been bewildering.

 

[RadarScope1]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

It's called putting money into something you believe in that would likely not succeed BUT FOR private/seed money to help make it happen. See also: political candidates, parties and causes; public radio and TV; and pretty much any charity ever. Have you never gotten behind something you really believe in? Anything? Or do you expect to get something significant in return from every action you take? Good luck with that.

I find what the TA editor said to be highly ignorant of the times. This is the Internet age. Crowd sourcing funding from a long tail of interested fans is the embodiment of the best virtues of the single greatest invention of our lifetimes. Ripping good people on Twitter is the embodiment of everything wrong with the Internet. And this is really just an extension of the model I noted above. If people don't trust the creator, they don't have to give. So what's wrong with that?

 

[Roto13]

It's called putting money into something you believe in that would likely not succeed BUT FOR private/seed money to help make it happen. See also: political candidates, parties and causes; public radio and TV; and pretty much any charity ever. Have you never gotten behind something you really believe in? Anything? Or do you expect to get something significant in return from every action you take? Good luck with that.

I'm all for kickstarter, but it's silly to compare crowdsourcing a video game to saving the whales or whatever.

 

[remnant]

but it isn't that different at all

 

[mhayze]

I'm all for kickstarter, but it's silly to compare crowdsourcing a video game to saving the whales or whatever.

Unless you create a kickstarter to save the whales...

 

[RadarScope1]

I'm all for kickstarter, but it's silly to compare crowdsourcing a video game to saving the whales or whatever.

Perhaps. But it's not so different. Some people love the whales. Some people love political causes. Some people think high school band trips are really cool. Some people love video games.

Look, I don't like games enough to donate seed money to one. I'm not giving to this game (never heard of it before this thread). But this guy's rant against essentially allowing people to give money to cool stuff they like just makes ZERO sense. It's a goddamn free country. It's up to all of us to have enough sense to figure out what's worthy of our own dollars. It's not up the "system" to protect us from ourselves. (... And I promise you I am not some Ayn Rand freak or something...)

 

[colinp]

Unless you create a kickstarter to save the whales...

ahahaha, well played

 

[Epcott]

Kickstarter feels like this new social craze everyone wants to jump on.

If money is going towards something a donator is passionate about, money that is not charged until production actually starts, I don't see the problem.

Its just another case of typical people turning up their nose at another social craze, that's all... much like those who shun facebook, memes, and twitter.


Also, why would anyone from a site entirely dedicated to iOS gaming say GAF for elitist pc gamers? It's a gaming age forum of consoles, pc, mobile devices, tablets, and off topic discussions... while Touch Arcade is only Apple. What an ass backwards statement.

 

[Zomba13]

lol what an immature douche. Guy needs to grow the fuck up lol.

 

[Barrett2]

[*]People who are so invested, financially or emotionally, in the success of massive, faceless conglomerates that they reflexively oppose anything that might help people outside the system

I think this is a big part of it. Gaming seems to attract a lot of people who invest a weird level of corporate allegiance as part of their enjoyment of the hobby.

 

[thetrin]

I'm all for kickstarter, but it's silly to compare crowdsourcing a video game to saving the whales or whatever.

There's very little difference between patronage and charity. Both concepts are built upon the idea that you are giving the money to someone else so they can do something they normally could not.

Patronage is, in itself, charitable. And for some reason, that pisses people off. I don't know why.

I think this is a big part of it. Gaming seems to attract a lot of people who invest a weird level of corporate allegiance as part of their enjoyment of the hobby.

How does this not disturb absolutely EVERYONE on GAF?

There's also significant cognitive dissonance when you consider that Hodapp is directing all this vitriol not at a large company looking to swindle the system, but a small group of talented devs that have given up their financial security to pursue a dream.

Hey, if it was EA gauging interest in a new Wing Commander, I would be agreeing that it's rather disgusting. This, on the other hand, is nothing of the sort.

 

[jooey]

How does this not disturb absolutely EVERYONE on GAF?

Because it exists in every form of entertainment and getting disturbed about all of it is exhausting.

 

[thetrin]

Kickstarter feels like this new social craze everyone wants to jump on.

If money is going towards something a donator is passionate about, money that is not charged until production actually starts, I don't see the problem.

Its just another case of typical people turning up their nose at another social craze, that's all... much like those who shun facebook, memes, and twitter.


Also, why would anyone from a site entirely dedicated to iOS gaming say GAF for elitist pc gamers? It's a gaming age forum of consoles, pc, mobile devices, tablets, and off topic discussions... while Touch Arcade is only Apple. What an ass backwards statement.

Any time GAF is mentioned as some sort of hive mind collective, the generalizations are pretty off the mark. That's what happens when you try to pigeon hole a forum populated by such a diverse group of people, united only by a hobby.

Because it exists in every form of entertainment and getting disturbed about all of it is exhausting.

I'm not saying that people need to be actively disturbed by it 24/7. There seem to be people that advocate the thought process.

 

[Fjordson]

Also, why would anyone from a site entirely dedicated to iOS gaming say GAF for elitist pc gamers? It's a gaming age forum of consoles, pc, mobile devices, tablets, and off topic discussions... while Touch Arcade is only Apple. What an ass backwards statement.

Yeah, the whole GAF hivemind thing is always unfortunate.

Ironically, there's a massive, always active iOS gaming thread here on GAF. Posts about sales, people reviewing new games, developers interacting with fans, etc.

 

[mclem]

I'm continuously flabbergasted when I see gamers - of all people - railing against Kickstarter. It's like these people have been sucking at the traditional publisher teet so long that they can't bear a different form of funding. It's incomprehensible. Skepticism is one thing, but some of the flat-out hatred and disdain thrown at Kickstarter is just remarkable.

I think it's a question of risk. We've been in an environment where publishers shoulder all the risk of funding games development, minimising the risk to the consumer - but resulting in an environment where only the most surefire big-budget games get funded, and B-tier games just don't stand a chance. Kickstarter is a venture which *massively* increases the risk to the consumer - but it opens up the environment to allow a lot of games which publishers wouldn't have the confidence in.

I think the people complaining about Kickstarter flatly believe that there should not be a major risk to the consumer - that it ought to be someone else's responsibility to take on the risks of game development.

The counter view is that any given person should have the right to dictate whether they take on the given risk or not, and donate accordingly. We're grown ups, you don't need to 'protect' us from misusing our money.

The counter-counter view is that there are likely to be people who donate to Kickstarter who *aren't* making a reasonable and educated assessment of the risks involved.


Me personally? I'm quite happy to take on the risks of game development to the level which I can afford to do so. Someone has to take a risk somewhere along the line, and if publishers don't want to, I'm willing to do what I can within my means. Crowdfunding allows lots of people like me to get together so our combined small means makes enough to make things happen, and that's something to be celebrated.

That said, I do agree a little with that final counter-counter view; I do think there are people who are donating to some Kickstarters but not analysing the risks correctly. And, indeed, it's quite possible that an intelligent confidence trickster could run one to get some money. Ultimately, though, that has to boil down to a case of Let The Buyer Beware. It's not a fundamental flaw with Kickstarter, in much the same way that a guy selling bootleg perfume isn't a fundamental flaw with the concept of commerce.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

So am I. I think Hodapp is responding to that question.

"Why am I always dragged into this?"
"I don't know!"

Yeah, but he dodged the fact that Jim Sterling was pro-Republique, which was insanely odd.

Because it exists in every form of entertainment and getting disturbed about all of it is exhausting.

Someone needs to go watch Cabin in the Woods again.

a-yuk yuk.

 

[numble]

Yeah, I wasn't saying it was impossible, just that it's a big challenge. Pre-sales to Kickstarter customers generally involve providing the app at a discount to start with (otherwise there's very little pull to participate); if you're giving people access to a $10 app for $5, paying that Apple cut will leave you with just $2 per pledge -- inefficient at best.

Also, I can't actually find any evidence of a specific, Apple-approved program for buying extra promo codes (just people talking about bulk-purchasing their own app and redistributing it) and AFAICT promo codes still don't count towards download/rankings or allow you to rate/review apps anyway.

There is an iTunes Volume Discount Program that offers companies up to 20% off when buying codes in bulk. The cut comes out of Apple's 30%.

I can rate/review promo codes I've gotten from freemyapps.com and freeappdaily.me just fine. You know that devs pay these companies to increase their App Store rankings, right? Apple and developers still get paid and they do count towards rankings.

Hambo, which is freeappdaily's free paid app for today, has shot up on the paid apps chart, despite under 700 reviews while the other games in that section of the chart have reviews in the thousands and ten thousands.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Um they're called your audience, something you won't have to worry about having any more of soon, you weirdo.

Also mods, I think itd be worthwhile approving this guys account. He'd really like to be part of this conversation I'm sure...

 

[FStop7]

I find it really charming how everyone is suddenly an ROI hardliner (and a backseat investment genius) when Kickstarter comes up. It's cute, like when everyone's dad was suddenly a day trader with an eTrade account and a $500 portfolio in 1998.

Listen, drkoop.com is gonna come back BIG, I swear to God.

 

[zroid]

Also mods, I think itd be worthwhile approving this guys account. He'd really like to be part of this conversation I'm sure...

I guess he deserves a chance to defend himself, even if he is a dick.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I guess he deserves a chance to defend himself, even if he is a dick.

Hes had many, many chances and outlets to defend himself and all hes doing is rolling in internet fame. Hes not interested in discourse, just in pissing off people and discredit them at the same time.

 

[charlequin]

There is an iTunes Volume Discount Program that offers companies up to 20% off when buying codes in bulk. The cut comes out of Apple's 30%.

As far as I can tell, the discounts offered on bulk purchases are opt-in by developers, go up to 50%, and come entirely (or proportionately) out of their part of the price. Plus there are a variety of enterprise-oriented restrictions that would make volume purchase at least more difficult for a lot of indie developers (physical office location, DUNS number, etc.)

Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to arrange (obviously there are ways to make it happen) but even the best-case arrangement is significantly more impractical and elaborate than distributing copies to backers on PC.

I can rate/review promo codes I've gotten from freemyapps.com and freeappdaily.me just fine.

Those sites pay for all the paid apps they distribute.

 

[numble]

As far as I can tell, the discounts offered on bulk purchases are opt-in by developers, go up to 50%, and come entirely (or proportionately) out of their part of the price. Plus there are a variety of enterprise-oriented restrictions that would make volume purchase at least more difficult for a lot of indie developers (physical office location, DUNS number, etc.)

Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to arrange (obviously there are ways to make it happen) but even the best-case arrangement is significantly more impractical and elaborate than distributing copies to backers on PC.



Those sites pay for all the paid apps they distribute.

Freemyapps specifically seeks out developers of paid apps to pay for increased app downloads. The developer gets a bump in the charts and still recoups most of his payment.

I don't think the limitations make Kickstarter impractical for iOS Kickstarters at all. You need to think through more things, especially on the pricing side, but that doesn't seem to deter the nearly 100 iOS projects on currently on Kickstarter. Apple even specifically met with the Republique folks to give them options for distributing the game.

I also don't think gaming Kickstarters have followed the model of offering discounts for backing--that seems to be the model for physical goods on Kickstarter. I've only followed a couple of gaming Kickstarters, but none of them had said that you're going to be getting the game at a discount, if anything, most of them liken the donations to pre-orders and try to get you to pay more than the game will likely cost (the limited edition box model).

 

[Margalis]

Also mods, I think itd be worthwhile approving this guys account. He'd really like to be part of this conversation I'm sure...

Does Neogaf really want to go down the road of fast-tracking the accounts of people who gain notoriety by being douches? It seems a little counter-intuitive to say "well this guy is kind of an ignorant ranting asshole, better give him an account!" while making respectable people wait.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Well, now I know what site never to grant clicks to via google searches.

What a completely ridiculous way to act around your site's lifeblood, the viewers of said site. You tell 'em, Hodapp!

 

[Theonik]

The only things I got out of this are that Millennials sounds like a really badass name for some sort of undying alien race or something. The second thing is that the dude is a massive unprofessional prick.

 

[Shig]

I also don't think gaming Kickstarters have followed the model of offering discounts for backing--that seems to be the model for physical goods on Kickstarter. I've only followed a couple of gaming Kickstarters, but none of them had said that you're going to be getting the game at a discount, if anything, most of them liken the donations to pre-orders and try to get you to pay more than the game will likely cost (the limited edition box model).

Really? The biggest ones have all had a pretty clear implication that their digital copy tier is set below what the digital copy will cost when it hits market. The Wasteland 2 one in particular specifically said this in its description of that tier.

 

[Theonik]

Really? The biggest ones have all had a pretty clear implication that their digital copy tier is set below what the digital copy will cost when it hits market. The Wasteland 2 one in particular specifically said this in its description of that tier.

For wasteland 2 they are also already offering digital Pre-orders for $5 more than the digital version will cost with the implication of an even further increased price.

 

[NIN90]

Why is he so angry lol

 

[numble]

Really? The biggest ones have all had a pretty clear implication that their digital copy tier is set below what the digital copy will cost when it hits market. The Wasteland 2 one in particular specifically said this in its description of that tier.

The Doublefine one is the biggest one, I don't think they've said that.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I find this guy fascinating. He turns from bizarrely elitist, to just the perfect arsehole, to a total headcase who doesn't seem to understand how maintaining an audience (and his job) works. All in the space of a minute's reading.

 

[mclem]

The Doublefine one is the biggest one, I don't think they've said that.

In their case, I think their digital copy tier *offers* more than their digital copy will, since it includes the documentary which looks like it's going to be handled as a side-project and - if it is sold - may well be sold independently.

 

[Hatten]

Definitely dont agree with all the hate towards us millenials...

But he does raise a point about kickstarter TOS

Whoever posts a project there isnt even compromised to use that money for that project, he can do whatever the hell he wants

One thing is not getting any money because investors are dicks who only pay for a COD-like game...

.....and another very different is to ask backers for money because you couldn't swindle investors to pay for your Porsche.

The difference being that investors can sue your ass because you signed a contract before getting the money.

You don't have that problem with kickstarter...

 

[dark10x]

I find this guy fascinating. He turns from bizarrely elitist, to just the perfect arsehole, to a total headcase who doesn't seem to understand how maintaining an audience (and his job) works. All in the space of a minute's reading.

Seriously. I'm pretty surprised at how crazy he seems to be going.

How old is this fellow, I wonder? 15? He certainly has the emotional stability of a teenager.

Whoever posts a project there isnt even compromised to use that money for that project, he can do whatever the hell he wants

Of course that's a risk, but you have to decide whether it's worth taking.

In this case, I think it's pretty clear that Ryan and crew have every intention of finishing this game as they've already created something playable. I'm willing to trust them with my money as I feel that they will deliver.

 

[Hatten]

In this case, I think it's pretty clear that Ryan and crew have every intention of finishing this game

I wasn't talking about Ryan but projects in general: there are no actual legal consequences, the worst thing that can happen is that your reputation will be ruined

And lets be honest if you are a complete nobody trying to make a giant wad of cash who cares if everybody hates you?

That's the problem I'm talking about

 

[Alexios]

Yes. But people already know. What more needs to be said? You decide if the risk is worth it to you, based on what you see. If you don't see enough to make up your mind, you don't pledge. If you don't trust them after what you see, you don't pledge. If you think they're serious about it and show the required traits like skill and dedication, you may pledge. Preferably an amount you don't mind losing on the off chance shit happens, which for some might be $10 and for others $10k depending on their financial situation and the project. This is the only way you can do this sort of funding, Kickstarter or anyone else can't barge in their homes and open their bank accounts and ensure that money is going toward the project, nor should they start requiring contracts stating they need to deliver by such and such date since development is unpredictable and things could in fact take longer (while putting some sort of 5 year deadline to avoid trouble over slight delays would probably just make people hesitant to pledge at all, thinking the game is planned to take that long). Hell, even if they did do this, a scammer could always put out some shitty game made in flash that sort of resembles the initial concept but is barely playable and still keep most of that money, so the only consequences would be to legit developers that don't quite manage to deliver on time (and also don't waste time doing a shitty last minute game just to save themselves). It's not like his crazy tantrum brings attention to this hidden trap nobody had considered, it's something obvious that all interested parties are aware of and decide accordingly weighing the pros and cons and the likelihood of it happening.

 

[reptilescorpio]

I wasn't talking about Ryan but projects in general: there are no actual legal consequences, the worst thing that can happen is that your reputation will be ruined

And lets be honest if you are a complete nobody trying to make a giant wad of cash who cares if everybody hates you?

That's the problem I'm talking about

The consequence is a poisoned career and a black mark that will follow you everywhere. If you mess up on the internet and don't follow through, especially when money is involved, any time your name comes up again everyone who heard about the failure will hone in on them and tear them to shreds.

Would be career suicide.

Which is why I feel comfortable funding projects ran by prominent people in the video game community who are well known enough that it would be the end of them if they misstepped.

 

[walking fiend]

I wasn't talking about Ryan but projects in general: there are no actual legal consequences, the worst thing that can happen is that your reputation will be ruined

And lets be honest if you are a complete nobody trying to make a giant wad of cash who cares if everybody hates you?

That's the problem I'm talking about

Anyone who backs 'nobodies' is the problem.

 

[numble]

In their case, I think their digital copy tier *offers* more than their digital copy will, since it includes the documentary which looks like it's going to be handled as a side-project and - if it is sold - may well be sold independently.

They never announced the price of the digital copy though, or if the documentary won't be included with the digital sale when it goes on sale--that's all speculative. At the very least, it was never advertised as a bargain, compared to say, the Pebble watch, where they tell you you will be saving money if you order now before it goes on sale.

 

[zroid]

Does Neogaf really want to go down the road of fast-tracking the accounts of people who gain notoriety by being douches? It seems a little counter-intuitive to say "well this guy is kind of an ignorant ranting asshole, better give him an account!" while making respectable people wait.

Not really, but don't you think there's a bit of a dilemma when someone has an entire thread dedicated to their defamation (however deserved it might be) and they can't even respond except with random tweets?

Not saying the mods should approve his account, I just feel a little uneasy having a thread like this when the target is locked out.

 

[Chinner]

should probably just lock the thread.

 

[RadarScope1]

Not really, but don't you think there's a bit of a dilemma when someone has an entire thread dedicated to their defamation (however deserved it might be) and they can't even respond except with random tweets?

Not saying the mods should approve his account, I just feel a little uneasy having a thread like this when the target is locked out.

I won't loose sleep over it. Dude has an entire website at his fingertips, plus Twitter. He's got avenues.

 

[Roto13]

Not really, but don't you think there's a bit of a dilemma when someone has an entire thread dedicated to their defamation (however deserved it might be) and they can't even respond except with random tweets?

Not saying the mods should approve his account, I just feel a little uneasy having a thread like this when the target is locked out.

There are tons and tons and tons of people being discussed in tons and tons and tons of places where they are unable to respond.

 

[zroid]

I won't loose sleep over it. Dude has an entire website at his fingertips, plus Twitter. He's got avenues.

There are tons and tons and tons of people being discussed in tons and tons and tons of places where they are unable to respond.

sigh, I suppose. I still don't think it's right, but yeah, I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

should probably just lock the thread.

Yep, let the idiot have his 5 minutes already. That was yesterday. This is just giving him a shred of credence in his mind, I'm sure.

 

[KingHippo1967]

The irony here is a guy bitching about Kickstarter and saying "it wasn't that easy back in my day", but doing so though a website. Back in MY day, it wasn't that easy to make your voice heard - but of course, it's okay for him take advantage of technology if it suits his purposes.