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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)

...finished transition ?

Do you still need to change your name or birth certificate or something ?

Well, SRS was the last thing I had to do. I just forgot that I wanted to take that picture. Pretty much I'm done with everything, from hormones and surgeries to legal stuff. The only thing I have left to do is the endgame content. More hair removal, more therapy, more voice work... and navigating the thread of whom do I have to pay to get an update on my highest academic tile.
 

Cepheus

Member
I had that same conversation with my mum when I was coming out. "Are you into drag stuff?" Well, no. I'm dressing normally like a woman because I actually am a woman. Drag has completely different motivations behind it. It's a good conversation to have; I think it introduces the semantics that reinforce what it means to be transgender.

If you dress and act normally, people will treat you normally. If you're in public done up like you're going out on the town, people will notice and that's when they start to draw conclusions about you.

This is all strictly opinion I'm sharing based on my personal experience, and others may heartily disagree with me, which is great. Everyone should be free to be who they are, and their definition of self and how they present themselves to others will vary widely.

Thanks again for the advice. I don't think I'll start buying more female-oriented clothing for a while, but I have bought some androgynous clothes/shoes recently. Also, my little sister offered to fix my eyebrows last week, which was nice. My mother was in the room at the time while she was doing it, but I still don't think she knows.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
A friend linked this on Facebook, an article titled "I Had 4 Boys Until One of Them Told Me She Was Really a Girl - I Have a Transgender Child".

As early as 18 months old, Kimberly Shappley's son started showing signs he identified as female. Now, the Christian mom shares how she learned to embrace Kai's transition — for her child's happiness and safety.

kaibekq1.png
Source: http://www.elle.com/life-love/a44606/transgender-child-kimberly-shappley/

A good read, check it out.
 

Silvawuff

Member
That was an incredible read! Thank you for sharing.

Ceph: definitely start small and build up! It's a transition, not a cannonball ...you definitely are not required to go beyond anything you're comfortable with. But, definitely challenge yourself to try new things. I wore panties for years because I found them more comfortable and appropriate to wear, then started to get women's tops, shoes, etc. Observe other women and take mental notes on what you like or don't like about their styles, hair, etc. Your sisters sound like they can be an incredible resource for training yourself on how girlstuff works, especially in the areas of makeup and dress.

Whatever the case, I think starting small and subtle is the real key.
 

Cepheus

Member
That was an incredible read! Thank you for sharing.

Ceph: definitely start small and build up! It's a transition, not a cannonball ...you definitely are not required to go beyond anything you're comfortable with. But, definitely challenge yourself to try new things. I wore panties for years because I found them more comfortable and appropriate to wear, then started to get women's tops, shoes, etc. Observe other women and take mental notes on what you like or don't like about their styles, hair, etc. Your sisters sound like they can be an incredible resource for training yourself on how girlstuff works, especially in the areas of makeup and dress.

Whatever the case, I think starting small and subtle is the real key.

Thank you! I agree, I don't want to rush this. My sisters have been pretty supportive so far and I'm sure they'll help me out with stuff. My mother might be a bit bewildered at first but I think she'll understand.
 

GamerJM

Banned
Hey TransGAF, I'm going out with a trans woman sometime this weekend, do you have any general advice regarding that? I mean I know I should just treat trans women the same way I'd treat cis women, use preferred pronouns, etc., but I was wondering if there's anything beyond that that most cis people wouldn't know about. Also it's pretty likely that we'll hook up since her profile says she's mostly on the site for the sex, so I don't know if you have any advice about that either.

Also for the record I'm a cis-ish (?) pan guy with a strong preference for people on the feminine side of the gender spectrum. By cis-ish I mean I'm pretty sure that I'm cis but I've had doubts about my own gender.....and also I've lurked here for a while >_>.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Hey TransGAF, I'm going out with a trans woman sometime this weekend, do you have any general advice regarding that? I mean I know I should just treat trans women the same way I'd treat cis women, use preferred pronouns, etc., but I was wondering if there's anything beyond that that most cis people wouldn't know about. Also it's pretty likely that we'll hook up since her profile says she's mostly on the site for the sex, so I don't know if you have any advice about that either.

Also for the record I'm a cis-ish (?) pan guy with a strong preference for people on the feminine side of the gender spectrum. By cis-ish I mean I'm pretty sure that I'm cis but I've had doubts about my own gender.....and also I've lurked here for a while >_>.

Honesty and tact are key here for establishing comfort, boundaries, and informed consent. You have stuff you're comfortable and not comfortable with, so does she. Communicate and work on anything you need to as it comes (hue).

I remember when I was a "cis" "guy" lurking this thread.
 

Eusis

Member
I kind of think even admitting you're questioning can open the flood gates, or at least make a significant crack.

Though I still feel weird and conflicted. I decided to mess with FaceApp to see how it'd do my face "female" and it filled me with disquiet and a sort of strong sense that... wasn't me, and I don't want to look like that? But other tries have been alright or just comical, but I have wondered if maybe that sense of dysphoria (albeit in a more FTM sense in being female bodied while having a male mind) is morbidly fascinating to me and thus leaves me confused. But maybe that's more ideally being gender neutral, I know the Changing God in Torment: Tides of Numenera going between male and female bodies was something I liked, and (mild but late game spoilers)
the fact that he'd decide on a whim at the end of making a body is something I feel as if I could relate to.

Ugh, I dunno.

EDIT: And I want to play with the app more but am at work and don't want to be hit with that disquieted feeling.
 

Rajack

Member
So things are over between me and my now ex-girlfriend. the 5 months I spent with her were extremely special and I'm sad that she chose to end things the way she did. I'm now making plans to leave my area entirely and move to the southern Portland area to be with chosen family. I'm visiting there on the 10th - 25th so let me know if you want to meet up if you're in the area!
 

Mepsi

Member
Hi everyone,

Been lurking in this thread now for a good 6-7 months and I have to say there are some truly amazing and inspirational people in here.

I've been struggling over the past 2-3 years, feeling a bit lost and confused about myself. Those feelings ramped up massively over the last six months and left me feeling heavily depressed.

So I've been doing some serious thinking and everything kinda clicked on place for me about a month ago, it was sort of obvious if I think about it but it really took a long time for me to actually accept. But yeah I came to the realisation that I am actually a woman.

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster ride since then and I'm not gonna lie, the idea of transitioning is terrifying for me as much as it is exciting.

However on the plus side, I plucked up the courage to finally tell my girlfriend on the weekend. She has been amazing, literally the day after she invited me around and was having me try out her clothes and wigs, started teaching me to do make up. She has really given me a ton of confidence and has made me feel so comfortable about myself (Plus I got a ton of awesome selfies I kinda wanna share when I get confident enough to =P)

I've booked in to see my GP to start talks about HRT next week, though I understand that the process can be extremely long going through the public health care route in the UK and that kind of bums me out.

I'm attending a pride event locally in July with a few of my friends in a couple of months time too. I think I've decided it's the day I'm gonna present myself to them, I may do it sooner but the day kinda seems fitting.

The only thing I'm terrified about is being open with my family and work about it all. My cousin came out as a trans woman about 7 years ago, and while the family is sort of accepting of her. There was a lot of talk behind her back and some of it was quite disgusting at times, and that makes me incredibly nervous to think of me in that position.

Work is kinda similar too, some very opinionated people on the subject. While some are open minded and great, some are right cunts, and even them talking about it from stuff that has popped up in the news can leave me feeling really shitty, plus it's a very male dominated workplace (1 woman working in my department out of 25). I think this may be the part I'm scared of the most currently.

Sorry to go so much, but I'm so excited at the moment and I just really want to let it all out.

I guess all in all I want to properly introduce myself on here as Ellie, and I want to thank you all for being so awesome ^_^.
 
Hi everyone,

Been lurking in this thread now for a good 6-7 months and I have to say there are some truly amazing and inspirational people in here.

I've been struggling over the past 2-3 years, feeling a bit lost and confused about myself. Those feelings ramped up massively over the last six months and left me feeling heavily depressed.

So I've been doing some serious thinking and everything kinda clicked on place for me about a month ago, it was sort of obvious if I think about it but it really took a long time for me to actually accept. But yeah I came to the realisation that I am actually a woman.

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster ride since then and I'm not gonna lie, the idea of transitioning is terrifying for me as much as it is exciting.

However on the plus side, I plucked up the courage to finally tell my girlfriend on the weekend. She has been amazing, literally the day after she invited me around and was having me try out her clothes and wigs, started teaching me to do make up. She has really given me a ton of confidence and has made me feel so comfortable about myself (Plus I got a ton of awesome selfies I kinda wanna share when I get confident enough to =P)

I've booked in to see my GP to start talks about HRT next week, though I understand that the process can be extremely long going through the public health care route in the UK and that kind of bums me out.

I'm attending a pride event locally in July with a few of my friends in a couple of months time too. I think I've decided it's the day I'm gonna present myself to them, I may do it sooner but the day kinda seems fitting.

The only thing I'm terrified about is being open with my family and work about it all. My cousin came out as a trans woman about 7 years ago, and while the family is sort of accepting of her. There was a lot of talk behind her back and some of it was quite disgusting at times, and that makes me incredibly nervous to think of me in that position.

Work is kinda similar too, some very opinionated people on the subject. While some are open minded and great, some are right cunts, and even them talking about it from stuff that has popped up in the news can leave me feeling really shitty, plus it's a very male dominated workplace (1 woman working in my department out of 25). I think this may be the part I'm scared of the most currently.

Sorry to go so much, but I'm so excited at the moment and I just really want to let it all out.

I guess all in all I want to properly introduce myself on here as Ellie, and I want to thank you all for being so awesome ^_^.

You sound a lot like me a few years ago. In fact I wrote a forum post just like this! Brace yourself, the next couple of years (or more) are going to be fucking tough. But they'll also be exciting, awkward, amazing, disappointing, and just about every other mix of emotions you can think of. But once you're done with your trial-by-fire you'll develop a skin so thick that people will know you as nothing less than a kickass, confident trans woman. 💪

Good luck Ellie, especially with the wait for HRT. It's a killer.
 

Anura

Member
Hi everyone,

Been lurking in this thread now for a good 6-7 months and I have to say there are some truly amazing and inspirational people in here.

I've been struggling over the past 2-3 years, feeling a bit lost and confused about myself. Those feelings ramped up massively over the last six months and left me feeling heavily depressed.

So I've been doing some serious thinking and everything kinda clicked on place for me about a month ago, it was sort of obvious if I think about it but it really took a long time for me to actually accept. But yeah I came to the realisation that I am actually a woman.

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster ride since then and I'm not gonna lie, the idea of transitioning is terrifying for me as much as it is exciting.

However on the plus side, I plucked up the courage to finally tell my girlfriend on the weekend. She has been amazing, literally the day after she invited me around and was having me try out her clothes and wigs, started teaching me to do make up. She has really given me a ton of confidence and has made me feel so comfortable about myself (Plus I got a ton of awesome selfies I kinda wanna share when I get confident enough to =P)

I've booked in to see my GP to start talks about HRT next week, though I understand that the process can be extremely long going through the public health care route in the UK and that kind of bums me out.

I'm attending a pride event locally in July with a few of my friends in a couple of months time too. I think I've decided it's the day I'm gonna present myself to them, I may do it sooner but the day kinda seems fitting.

The only thing I'm terrified about is being open with my family and work about it all. My cousin came out as a trans woman about 7 years ago, and while the family is sort of accepting of her. There was a lot of talk behind her back and some of it was quite disgusting at times, and that makes me incredibly nervous to think of me in that position.

Work is kinda similar too, some very opinionated people on the subject. While some are open minded and great, some are right cunts, and even them talking about it from stuff that has popped up in the news can leave me feeling really shitty, plus it's a very male dominated workplace (1 woman working in my department out of 25). I think this may be the part I'm scared of the most currently.

Sorry to go so much, but I'm so excited at the moment and I just really want to let it all out.

I guess all in all I want to properly introduce myself on here as Ellie, and I want to thank you all for being so awesome ^_^.
Ellie is a great choice for a name. I should know, it's the one I picked as well! Best of luck to you.
 

Mistel

Banned
I've booked in to see my GP to start talks about HRT next week, though I understand that the process can be extremely long going through the public health care route in the UK and that kind of bums me out.
Depending where you are located you'll get a referral to one of 6 gender clinics the waiting list is ~ 1 to 1.5 years for a first appointment.
 

Mepsi

Member
Depending where you are located you'll get a referral to one of 6 gender clinics the waiting list is ~ 1 to 1.5 years for a first appointment.

That is such a depressing number. Doesn't help too when my GP has not got a clue about the process and wants a couple of weeks to find out how to approach it ;-;
 
That is such a depressing number. Doesn't help too when my GP has not got a clue about the process and wants a couple of weeks to find out how to approach it ;-;
Don't wait for them to do the legwork, you need to be more active with your GP to get anything done (trans or not). Look up the nearest GIC to you, write down the name, address, phone number, the name of the administrator, and tell them point blank that what they need to do is is refer you to that clinic. The wait times are long enough that you shouldn't prolong it further needlessly.

Not sure if it has gotten worse in the past couple of years, but I think the wait time went down to about 9 months in some clinics like Exeter. (You still need 3 psychiatric appointments with them, then a doctor's appointment before your prescription so definitely ask your GP about bridging hormones too, I think it's starting to be a bit more of a thing now?)
 

Mistel

Banned
1 - 1.5 years!? Holy crap that's really rough. I'd look into DIY while you wait.
NHS resources are very limited for this sort of thing it's really rough on everyone in the services especially with the gatekeeping some of them have.
That is such a depressing number. Doesn't help too when my GP has not got a clue about the process and wants a couple of weeks to find out how to approach it ;-;
Don't feel too disheartened like Meadow Drone says putting in the grunt work will speed up the process substantially especially with just a GP or a locum with regards to getting a referral.
Not sure if it has gotten worse in the past couple of years, but I think the wait time went down to about 9 months in some clinics like Exeter. (You still need 3 psychiatric appointments with them, then a doctor's appointment before your prescription so definitely ask your GP about bridging hormones too, I think it's starting to be a bit more of a thing now?)
The Laurels is still about 12 months but they've taken on new therapists recently so it'll hopefully reduce.
 

Mepsi

Member
Don't wait for them to do the legwork, you need to be more active with your GP to get anything done (trans or not). Look up the nearest GIC to you, write down the name, address, phone number, the name of the administrator, and tell them point blank that what they need to do is is refer you to that clinic. The wait times are long enough that you shouldn't prolong it further needlessly.

Not sure if it has gotten worse in the past couple of years, but I think the wait time went down to about 9 months in some clinics like Exeter. (You still need 3 psychiatric appointments with them, then a doctor's appointment before your prescription so definitely ask your GP about bridging hormones too, I think it's starting to be a bit more of a thing now?)


Yeah that's not a bad idea I'll give them a call tomorrow.

I didn't know that bridging hormones were a thing tbh but looking into it they seem very reluctant to give them a go as a rule. I'll definitely have to bring them up as it seems like a good start without having to wait the for the rediculous waiting times.

I still find it shocking how under resourced the UK really is for this. To get to my nearest clinic I'm going to have to travel just under 100 miles.
 

Mistel

Banned
Yeah that's not a bad idea I'll give them a call tomorrow.

I didn't know that bridging hormones were a thing tbh but looking into it they seem very reluctant to give them a go as a rule. I'll definitely have to bring them up as it seems like a good start without having to wait the for the rediculous waiting times.

I still find it shocking how under resourced the UK really is for this. To get to my nearest clinic I'm going to have to travel just under 100 miles.
Under CR181 they've got the option to offer them and it's also recommended by WPATH as well. It's probably worth mentioning with the GP.
 

Silvawuff

Member
Hi there Ellie, I'm really glad you've shared your story and started your journey. My thoughts about what other people think? Let them talk.

Passing is a very interesting art/science, one that's dependent on dozens if not hundreds of factors. Every time I think for sure I haven't passed somewhere at work, in public, etc. I'm always surprised. It happened just today; I was telling a coworker -- that I assumed knew about me -- that I had my surgery coming up next year (got that paid off yesterday, woo!) and he was like "Surgery, what for? I hope it's not serious!" He wasn't being nice, he was being completely honest. I was stunned. I think the key is wrapping your head around that fact that people don't pay as much attention to you as you think they do.

Remember you don't have to do everything at once, nor do you owe everyone an announcement about your change in status. That might even be a thing you'll leave up to the powers that be at work; they can handle it more eloquently and bring the hammer on coworkers that have a problem with it. Work on little things while planning for the big things. Once you do a lot of the little things, the big things will fall into place and you'll find your way to happiness. Don't let the opinions of others factor into anything you need to do for yourself.

Finally, my favorite quote from Dr. Seuss:

"Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter."
 

Mepsi

Member
So, I've been talking to my GP again, who refused to listen to what I had to say about referral to a GIC. They've turned around and said I'd have to go for psychiatric evaluation before they will send a referral, which currently has a 6 month waiting list.

No matter how much I tell them that this doesn't need to be done, and even having spoken to people at my nearest GIC and them saying that this is the procedure they aren't budging from this.

I think it might be time to find a new GP at this point. But it's so incredibly frustrating ;-;
 
Unfortunately you will probably need to change GP because yes, it's absolutely unnecessary. I did go through that whole psychiatric evaluation which added a few months onto my waiting time, because I talked to my GP *right* before the mandatory requirement for psych evaulation ended. So I was still on the waiting list for it when the requirement was dropped, but my GP wouldn't let me pass through it so I just waited since there wasn't really any hard information on the direct referral out there at the time.

But that was over 3 years ago - you don't need that now. I'd see if you can google or find information about trans friendly GPs in your area, perhaps there are some stories or anecdotes, or databases online that track that stuff, eg:
http://transfigurations.org.uk/trans-friendly-doctors
http://actionfortranshealth.org.uk/resources/for-trans-people/list-of-trans-friendly-gps

Sorry you gotta go through that but well, welcome to the wonderful world of transitioning in the UK. 🎉 Let me know if you need to vent or want advice (here or on FF14, which I assume you play)!
 

Llyrwenne

Unconfirmed Member
I posted like twice here and pretty much just lurk from time to time but I felt like venting sooooooo...

The wait is getting me down hard.

April last year I got put on the waiting list.
September started monthly psych conversations.
Early this June my case will be presented to a team.

If I get the green light from that team ( which I am confident in ), I will have to wait four more months before they actually start me on anything.

The lady who lasers my face is unavailable til September due to pregnancy and there's nowhere else I really can / want to go to close by.

I've been living as myself everywhere and everybody has been informed for months by now, and it's all been great. I feel happier, more myself, everybody is positive and supportive and well-meaning. But this waiting is just dragging me down lately. I have nothing to distract me from it at the moment. My girlfriend / few other friends are busy with their studies, I can't start my study until the next school year and I'm enjoying my 'job' at the supermarket less and less despite my great co-workers.

I should be working out and improving my diet and sleep schedule ( which has been pretty messed up lately due to irregular work times for me ) and get back to learnin' myself some make-up skills, but I just can't bring myself to actually do any of it. I'm letting the wait drain my energy away, and I know I shouldn't - I feel like I'm stuck in a cycle.

I know I will get through it ( hey, even just writing this post helped me shape a plan in my head for the coming few weeks ), but it's just getting so frustrating.

_(._. )_
 

Silvawuff

Member
I'm not sure where you're located, but a lot of LGBT-friendly clinics offer informed consent hormone prescriptions. That's the route I went -- it's made them both accessible and affordable without any wait. The only real wait was having them kick in and do their stuff. I couldn't imagine living without.

Other paths exist, you just have to look for them.
 
I'm not sure where you're located, but a lot of LGBT-friendly clinics offer informed consent hormone prescriptions. That's the route I went -- it's made them both accessible and affordable without any wait. The only real wait was having them kick in and do their stuff. I couldn't imagine living without.

Other paths exist, you just have to look for them.

This is not true at all.

While a lot of clinics will even advertise themselves as "Informed Consent", they do not act like it at all. It's actually very rare to find IC sans particular large cities where trans communities have existed for a long while.
 

Eusis

Member
This is not true at all.

While a lot of clinics will even advertise themselves as "Informed Consent", they do not act like it at all. It's actually very rare to find IC sans particular large cities where trans communities have existed for a long while.
This might be an area where countries differ, IE you can't really in (most of) the USA, but can in some European countries.
 
This might be an area where countries differ, IE you can't really in (most of) the USA, but can in some European countries.

Even in the US it's very region specific. Go to the coasts and you'll have a higher chance of finding a place that's not going to make you jump through too many hoops. If you go more towards the midwest or even just further away from the bigger urban areas and good luck with that.
 

Llyrwenne

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah that's not really a thing here.
From what I understand we basically have two hospitals running programs for this and they are both understaffed in the face of the sharply rising number of transgender patients (due to increasing awareness and acceptance).

Talked to my psych again today last time before she presents my case to the team and apparently waiting times from greenlight to hormones have been shortened from 4 months to ~ 2,5 months, so yay I guess. \o/

Though she also told me I need to finish fertility things ( storing me stuff just in caaaaase ) before I get put on that waiting list - even when I get greenlighted. Seems kinda odd they don't just put you on the list and let you finish that stuff up during that waiting period. You know, because you are waiting anyway. :/

Anyway I feel kinda bad complaining about this stuff because it's been pretty trouble-free all around for me, and I know that doesn't go for everyone. .x.
 

mollipen

Member
Though she also told me I need to finish fertility things ( storing me stuff just in caaaaase ) before I get put on that waiting list - even when I get greenlighted. Seems kinda odd they don't just put you on the list and let you finish that stuff up during that waiting period. You know, because you are waiting anyway. :/

Might be because they don't want people saying that they're going to do that, but then get deep into the process and flake.
 

Llyrwenne

Unconfirmed Member
That's the thing with my frustrations with waiting; I know these waiting times and psychological talks and everything are important. I know they are needed. I understand they are needed. I accept that and know that I too should go through that process.

But it's frustrating to go through that more than a year long process when you already know what's going on, when you've got no other psychological issues or social issues going on, when you already know what you feel like and what your wishes are, when everyone around you already knows and you want to move on to the next step, and when you have already made your decisions months ago after thinking through all the options and possible consequences, etc.

And I get that not everyone is like that. I get that there are probably people who thought exactly like me at this point in the process, yet still ended up going a different route. I get that I am not some special snowflake for whom the rules should be bent or suspended.

I went through the process and that is for the better and I'm happy I did ... but at the end of the day, it also means that I have spent a year on getting other people to reach a conclusion that I had already reached myself. A year that I would have rather spent on hormones.

And that's frustrating.
 

Silvawuff

Member
I live in Chicago and renewed/walked out with my prescription just today. IC clinics do exist, so I don't see how any part of my previous statement was untrue.

I hope those of you stuck in the process get access to HRT soon. It's life-changing in a brilliant way. I certainly appreciate that I am able to have affordable access to it geographically that is truly IC.
 
That's the thing with my frustrations with waiting; I know these waiting times and psychological talks and everything are important. I know they are needed. I understand they are needed. I accept that and know that I too should go through that process.

But it's frustrating to go through that more than a year long process when you already know what's going on, when you've got no other psychological issues or social issues going on, when you already know what you feel like and what your wishes are, when everyone around you already knows and you want to move on to the next step, and when you have already made your decisions months ago after thinking through all the options and possible consequences, etc.

And I get that not everyone is like that. I get that there are probably people who thought exactly like me at this point in the process, yet still ended up going a different route. I get that I am not some special snowflake for whom the rules should be bent or suspended.

I went through the process and that is for the better and I'm happy I did ... but at the end of the day, it also means that I have spent a year on getting other people to reach a conclusion that I had already reached myself. A year that I would have rather spent on hormones.

And that's frustrating.

Quite so!

While there's no doubt that many trans people (and cis people to be fair) could use the services of a therapist or psychiatrist, they certainly should never be forced to do so.

There's no legitimate reason to withold treatment and hormones for a year "just to make sure", it's flat out torture.

Add that to the fact that legit trans programs are rare, underfunded, understaffed, uncoordinated and often times the product of people who just want to try to help but may not necessarily have a lot of knowledge on it.... you end up having to hope that the locations near you are somewhat affordable and that they don't make you jump through stupid loops along the way just to satisfy their curiosity.

This is bad because it either pushes trans people to self med, which can be dangerous, or people who never get help and others who end up killing themselves due to despair, depression, anxiety and dysphoria.
 

mollipen

Member
While there's no doubt that many trans people (and cis people to be fair) could use the services of a therapist or psychiatrist, they certainly should never be forced to do so.

I 100% disagree with that. I realize how hard things can be even today, in finding proper services to help trans people with their needs, but in my perfect world, those services would be everywhere and accessible, and nobody would be transitioning without them.

I do not at all trust anyone—myself included—to make educated and rational decision on every step of the process. And, with how utterly major that process is and how drastically it can change (or screw up if you're doing it for the wrong reasons) your life, I don't think anyone should be given access to medication or surgery without having gone through at least some amount of process. A therapist should absolutely be a piece of that process.


There's no legitimate reason to withold treatment and hormones for a year "just to make sure", it's flat out torture.

I would argue that if you can't make it through that year of wait, then you aren't prepared for the way, way harder things that are going to come your way later.
 
I 100% disagree with that. I realize how hard things can be even today, in finding proper services to help trans people with their needs, but in my perfect world, those services would be everywhere and accessible, and nobody would be transitioning without them.

I do not at all trust anyone—myself included—to make educated and rational decision on every step of the process. And, with how utterly major that process is and how drastically it can change (or screw up if you're doing it for the wrong reasons) your life, I don't think anyone should be given access to medication or surgery without having gone through at least some amount of process. A therapist should absolutely be a piece of that process.




I would argue that if you can't make it through that year of wait, then you aren't prepared for the way, way harder things that are going to come your way later.

I'm glad you had access to those facilities and services and had the privilege to be able to afford them.

We do not live in a perfect world so we have to adapt solutions to what they work. It's fine if you don't trust anyone, including yourself, to make such decisions but do not remove the power of others to make such decision.

What you described is a support network and indeed everyone should have one but again it's something that can be difficult if not rare for many. Reminding ourselves that trans people are chronically unemployed or making less than $16k a year, people can barely afford food let alone an extra medical professional on top of things.

Detransition rates are, as far as I remember, within the single digit numbers. Suicide is above 40% for trans people. After the first year of HRT, this number drops sharply. Numbers worth considering.

A year of wait could be a year without work, without home, without a chance to build a life, a year of untreatable depression and anxiety. No, waiting a year doesn't make you ready, it makes you scarred. I'm glad you made it through but it's not a healthy nor a reasonable thing anyone should go through. Trials by fire are never helpful.
 

Sibylus

Banned
If everyone had the privilege of immediate, affirming, and affordable mental health care... it would be a much better world than it is now. But that's not reality, mollipen.

I waited nigh 2 years to start hormones not because it was the best way of doing things, but because the fucking system itself in my city was overloaded and had a single person to handle it all (when it was nominally two). It ended up with me pleading with said person to start me, because I was growing suicidal waiting for a phone call that never came. When they had mercy on me and cut that red tape? It was fucking night and day for my outcomes.
 

Silvawuff

Member
I 100% disagree with that. I realize how hard things can be even today, in finding proper services to help trans people with their needs, but in my perfect world, those services would be everywhere and accessible, and nobody would be transitioning without them.

I do not at all trust anyone—myself included—to make educated and rational decision on every step of the process. And, with how utterly major that process is and how drastically it can change (or screw up if you're doing it for the wrong reasons) your life, I don't think anyone should be given access to medication or surgery without having gone through at least some amount of process. A therapist should absolutely be a piece of that process.

I would argue that if you can't make it through that year of wait, then you aren't prepared for the way, way harder things that are going to come your way later.

Thank you, I completely agree with you.

I think transitioning itself is a very personal and dynamic thing; what works for one person may not work for the other. Everyone's life and living situation is different. I've personally worked incredibly hard while dealing with my own living nightmare, to be able to be at the point I'm at today -- it's not been a gravy train all the way, and I've still got a long way to go and lots of challenges to address.

Therapists that specialize or have training with trans-related issues may be rare, but they are certainly worth seeking out for the resources and contacts they may have. As far as money...if you want to make things work, find a way to make it work. The therapist I went to accepted only one kind of insurance I didn't have and was rather expensive; I negotiated with her and I was able to pay half my fee in baked goodies, since I'm a baker by trade. Every session we'd plan for the treat I'd bring it next, and the money I saved as a result was a lot. I should also note that therapists are really good at negotiating with insurance or advocating services for you.

My therapist actually cut me my first letter half a year early because she felt that I was ready to go (and the waiting list for SRS was long so I'd fall within the WPATH guidelines within that timeframe anyway). If I was dealing with my transition poorly and doing things wrong, I don't think that would have happened.

TL;DR - People who have their stuff together, plan, communicate, and try to make things work no matter the odds or sacrifice, will often get better results. It's tough business being who you really are. Embrace it by the horns and don't let go.
 
Thank you, I completely agree with you.

I think transitioning itself is a very personal and dynamic thing; what works for one person may not work for the other. Everyone's life and living situation is different. I've personally worked incredibly hard while dealing with my own living nightmare, to be able to be at the point I'm at today -- it's not been a gravy train all the way, and I've still got a long way to go and lots of challenges to address.

Therapists that specialize or have training with trans-related issues may be rare, but they are certainly worth seeking out for the resources and contacts they may have. As far as money...if you want to make things work, find a way to make it work. The therapist I went to accepted only one kind of insurance I didn't have and was rather expensive; I negotiated with her and I was able to pay half my fee in baked goodies, since I'm a baker by trade. Every session we'd plan for the treat I'd bring it next, and the money I saved as a result was a lot. I should also note that therapists are really good at negotiating with insurance or advocating services for you.

My therapist actually cut me my first letter half a year early because she felt that I was ready to go (and the waiting list for SRS was long so I'd fall within the WPATH guidelines within that timeframe anyway). If I was dealing with my transition poorly and doing things wrong, I don't think that would have happened.

TL;DR - People who have their stuff together, plan, communicate, and try to make things work no matter the odds or sacrifice, will often get better results. It's tough business being who you really are. Embrace it by the horns and don't let go.

Seriously, I'm not here to pick a fight but this reeks of privilege.

You had the privilege of a job and a trade and you had access to someone who allowed you to use that trade as a resource. I will point out again that trans people are much more likely to be chronically unemployed or make less than $16k a year than cis people. Having a trade to bargain with, someone willing to take such bargain, being able to function enough to even perform a job or have qualified professionals to use and/or rely on.... all of those things are tremendously large privileges and far from the norm.

Please recall that more often than not trans folk are inserted in a situation where they are dependent on someone or someones who will not support them or pull support if they are found out. This is a daily fear and reality for many trans people.

No amount of plan, hard work, want, desire, strength or sacrifice can create opportunities if they are not available or within reach. Let's not pretend bootstraps solve issues such as abuse, depression, dysphoria, anxiety, hunger and homelessness.
 

Saturnman

Banned
I come in peace and I have a question. I hope it's not too controversial.

If you view gender roles as a social construct (not to be confused with genuine biological differences) meaning for example women are traditionally expected to wear dresses, have their hair long or stay at home, what happens in a society where those roles no longer exist and how would it affect the trans community?

If it helps, picture some sort of future communist utopia, a society where everyone can be anything they want to be, boys can wear dresses or women can wear ties, completely up to the individual. Then I wonder how gender identity would be expressed in the trans community under such free conditions.
 

Eusis

Member
I come in peace and I have a question. I hope it's not too controversial.

If you view gender roles as a social construct (not to be confused with genuine biological differences) meaning for example women are traditionally expected to wear dresses, have their hair long or stay at home, what happens in a society where those roles no longer exist and how would it affect the trans community?

If it helps, picture some sort of future communist utopia, a society where everyone can be anything they want to be, boys can wear dresses or women can wear ties, completely up to the individual. Then I wonder how gender identity would be expressed in the trans community under such free conditions.
Probably just a matter of whether you want to take hormones to feminize/masculinize the body. It is looking like the brain can be wired to WANT to be that other sex and identify as that gender, even when your personality, interests, sexuality, and even desired presentation line up with your birth sex. So it could be said that identity, or at least the "subconscious sex" portion (term coined by Julia Serano) of it is innate, while the presentation is a social construct.
 
Seriously, I'm not here to pick a fight but this reeks of privilege.

You had the privilege of a job and a trade and you had access to someone who allowed you to use that trade as a resource. I will point out again that trans people are much more likely to be chronically unemployed or make less than $16k a year than cis people. Having a trade to bargain with, someone willing to take such bargain, being able to function enough to even perform a job or have qualified professionals to use and/or rely on.... all of those things are tremendously large privileges and far from the norm.

Please recall that more often than not trans folk are inserted in a situation where they are dependent on someone or someones who will not support them or pull support if they are found out. This is a daily fear and reality for many trans people.

No amount of plan, hard work, want, desire, strength or sacrifice can create opportunities if they are not available or within reach. Let's not pretend bootstraps solve issues such as abuse, depression, dysphoria, anxiety, hunger and homelessness.

Yeah. It's easy to talk about your perfect world, but it's much harder for that world to exist. In that perfect world, every person can get fair access to affordable/free therapy - but indeed, they must undergo. Unfortunately, the argument is only as feasible as "we should cure world hunger by feeding everyone." It's perhaps a nice idea to give access, but is that going to be healthy for every single trans person? Is the number of cis people who may be harmed by undergoing HRT worse than the trans people who suffer for not undergoing it? I mean, how many people who cannot survive the wait to get HRT is too many? Is there a number that is acceptable? mollipen, I'm sorry, but you seem to be basing your argument of what other people should do solely on what worked for you, ignoring that this only works if everyone has exactly as good a life as you and exactly as much access to what you got as you had.
 

mollipen

Member
I'm glad you had access to those facilities and services and had the privilege to be able to afford them.

I was waiting for "privilege" to come up.

My point is simply this: self-diagnoses is bullshit. Especially when it comes to mental and emotional issues, it's far too easy for someone to not actually understand what their situation really is. Human beings have a tendency to look toward the answers that best fit their desire for an answer, and that can lead to them making their lives far worse.

I know it's not a popular opinion in the trans community to say that there should be therapist gatekeeping to HRT, but I firmly believe that. And yes, again, we need to make resources better so that everyone can have access to that step of the process. But an actual professional needs to make sure that what you think is going on really is going on, especially at a point in life where so much easy-to-access information on the internet is eager to convince you that you're something you might not be (or that a certain solution is the right one for you when it might not be).

Letting someone transition without any checks to make sure that's really the solution for them is like giving guns to people who have had zero training. Sure, everything could go great, but it's also playing with potential disaster. I'm obviously not going to go around and stop everyone who self-medicates or who has found a way to skip the therapy step from doing what they're doing, but I plead with them not to take that route.
 

driggonny

Banned
I only went to a gender therapist for a few weeks before she told me that I didn't need her and that I knew what I wanted. This was maybe a month after I realized that I'm trans. Got on hrt about a month after that because I was lucky to find a doctor on my campus. It's been almost two months since then. Was that too fast? I wish I could've gone faster and not felt like I needed a psychologist to affirm what I already knew. The only thing I gained from it was the ability to brush off concerns of my family by telling them a psychologist agrees with me.
 

Silvawuff

Member
Seriously, I'm not here to pick a fight but this reeks of privilege.

You had the privilege of a job and a trade and you had access to someone who allowed you to use that trade as a resource. I will point out again that trans people are much more likely to be chronically unemployed or make less than $16k a year than cis people. Having a trade to bargain with, someone willing to take such bargain, being able to function enough to even perform a job or have qualified professionals to use and/or rely on.... all of those things are tremendously large privileges and far from the norm.

Please recall that more often than not trans folk are inserted in a situation where they are dependent on someone or someones who will not support them or pull support if they are found out. This is a daily fear and reality for many trans people.

No amount of plan, hard work, want, desire, strength or sacrifice can create opportunities if they are not available or within reach. Let's not pretend bootstraps solve issues such as abuse, depression, dysphoria, anxiety, hunger and homelessness.

Hey, I totally understand what you're saying, and I respectfully disagree with you. You're basing your personal conjecture against all other trans people, it seems like, based on your own negative experiences or your perception of negativity. You have no idea how hard I've struggled and how hard I've worked to earn what I have. I chose to embrace my transition with love and positive attitude in spite of the challenges I've had to face, and it's been very effective in getting the support I need -- support I've earned and was never handed. If you want to call that "privilege," be my guest.

I strongly feel part of a healthy transition is that you learn to love yourself, and base your decisions and choices around that self-love. Everything you do, you do for yourself. I concede care for transfolk is severely lacking in certain locales and some people may truly be unable to afford care or find a way to put themselves in a place where care is accessible and affordable, but that doesn't mean they should not try and explore every possible option. I don't think it's fair to point at people who have easier access to care as privileged. Everyone suffers equally; it's how you handle it that truly counts -- this is coming from someone who was abused and bullied heavily through her life.

It took years of mental homework for me to arrive at this point in my life that I was functional enough to make things happen. I sold a lot of my personal belongings and work two jobs. I work a lot of double shifts and push 18-20 hours a day a week. I once passed out from sheer exhaustion and sometimes hallucinate from the fatigue. The alternative of getting on some list and hoping I'd get care while feeling sorry for myself was not something I was willing to concede, so working to afford care/surgery was the better option.

If you really want something, you will move heaven and hell to get it, and I disagree if you tell me that it won't work if the options aren't available. You make the options available. You make it work or die, and I refuse to do the latter. Right now, I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life, and it's only getting better and better. I've paid my penance, as does everyone else who suffers the horrors of dysphoria.

I'm not wanting to start a fight here either, but I strongly implore you to consider that not everyone in transition suffers the same crapshot or has the same experience when seeking care. Look at Driggonny for a stellar example (congrats on that, by the way!). Whatever may be the case and your personal experience, I hope you find happiness too, Butterfly Witch. I have tremendous respect for you and everyone in this thread, and I apologize if I've come off disrespectful or ignorant in any way.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Mollipen, with all due respect, "privilege" matters. You most of all should know, having been blessed with innate conventional beauty, the luxury of meandering toward your goals for years and not suffering unduly for it, and the financial security to select one of the most (if not the most) expensive deployments of HRT on the market.

Why isn't your opinion popular in the trans community? Might have something to do with you being completely out of touch with what inordinate numbers of us have to put up with. Rather than count your blessings and make the way easier for our neediest, you're all for raising fences and defending the ones that already agonize us. People are dying slowly to get a shot at what you approached at your convenience. Consider that.
 

Sibylus

Banned
And fuck this patronizing philosophy that decrees no trans woman can know she's a woman without a shrink. No woman, period, needs help to know herself. Womanhood is not mental illness.

I only went to a gender therapist for a few weeks before she told me that I didn't need her and that I knew what I wanted. This was maybe a month after I realized that I'm trans. Got on hrt about a month after that because I was lucky to find a doctor on my campus. It's been almost two months since then. Was that too fast? I wish I could've gone faster and not felt like I needed a psychologist to affirm what I already knew. The only thing I gained from it was the ability to brush off concerns of my family by telling them a psychologist agrees with me.

Anyone who tells you that this is too fast is pontificating. You know yourself, and if you doubted that, you've taken ample opportunity to perform a gut check.
 
I was waiting for "privilege" to come up.

My point is simply this: self-diagnoses is bullshit. Especially when it comes to mental and emotional issues, it's far too easy for someone to not actually understand what their situation really is. Human beings have a tendency to look toward the answers that best fit their desire for an answer, and that can lead to them making their lives far worse.

I know it's not a popular opinion in the trans community to say that there should be therapist gatekeeping to HRT, but I firmly believe that. And yes, again, we need to make resources better so that everyone can have access to that step of the process. But an actual professional needs to make sure that what you think is going on really is going on, especially at a point in life where so much easy-to-access information on the internet is eager to convince you that you're something you might not be (or that a certain solution is the right one for you when it might not be).

Letting someone transition without any checks to make sure that's really the solution for them is like giving guns to people who have had zero training. Sure, everything could go great, but it's also playing with potential disaster. I'm obviously not going to go around and stop everyone who self-medicates or who has found a way to skip the therapy step from doing what they're doing, but I plead with them not to take that route.

I do agree with you, mental and emotional issues can be easy to misdiagnose and there certainly is a long of "internet doctors" who have given themselves this or that condition based on uninformed opinions or factoids off the internet.

I'm hoping you're not arguing that people need to see a gender therapist to make sure they know which gender they are because then I'd ask you who "diagnosed" all the cis people as cis and why are they magically exempt from this. Why should trans people have to subject themselves to whims or validation of others in order for them to be themselves?

Again, detransition rates are on the single digits while suicide numbers are close to 45% for trans people who cannot get health care. The situation you are portraying is neither common nor is there a rampant influx of people who "self-diagnose" as trans.

Transition, and by this I mean medical transition with the usage of HRT, is never something someone should do on their own. They should always be accompanied by a medical professional with years of experience and routine blood work. What you do not need is to have a hand in your throat by a therapist or psychologist and you having to prove your identity to them, oftentimes having to portray stereotypes or risk never getting care or having it pulled from under you.

In a perfect world? Fuck yes!
Everyone should have a mental health professional helping them along. Social and medical transition is hard, really darn hard and a lot of trans people have been so removed from society, usually due to depression, dysphoria and/or anxiety, that they have a hard time re-entering it.



We do not live in a perfect world. Socialized medical care doesn't exist in a lot of places such as the US and even in those places that it does exist it's often mismanaged all the way to hell, see the GIC in the UK.



Hey, I totally understand what you're saying, and I respectfully disagree with you. You're basing your personal conjecture against all other trans people, it seems like, based on your own negative experiences or your perception of negativity. You have no idea how hard I've struggled and how hard I've worked to earn what I have. I chose to embrace my transition with love and positive attitude in spite of the challenges I've had to face, and it's been very effective in getting the support I need -- support I've earned and was never handed. If you want to call that "privilege," be my guest.


I strongly feel part of a healthy transition is that you learn to love yourself, and base your decisions and choices around that self-love. Everything you do, you do for yourself. I concede care for transfolk is severely lacking in certain locales and some people may truly be unable to afford care or find a way to put themselves in a place where care is accessible and affordable, but that doesn't mean they should not try and explore every possible option. I don't think it's fair to point at people who have easier access to care as privileged. Everyone suffers equally; it's how you handle it that truly counts -- this is coming from someone who was abused and bullied heavily through her life.

It took years of mental homework for me to arrive at this point in my life that I was functional enough to make things happen. I sold a lot of my personal belongings and work two jobs. I work a lot of double shifts and push 18-20 hours a day a week. I once passed out from sheer exhaustion and sometimes hallucinate from the fatigue. The alternative of getting on some list and hoping I'd get care while feeling sorry for myself was not something I was willing to concede, so working to afford care/surgery was the better option.

If you really want something, you will move heaven and hell to get it, and I disagree if you tell me that it won't work if the options aren't available. You make the options available. You make it work or die, and I refuse to do the latter. Right now, I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life, and it's only getting better and better. I've paid my penance, as does everyone else who suffers the horrors of dysphoria.

I'm not wanting to start a fight here either, but I strongly implore you to consider that not everyone in transition suffers the same crapshot or has the same experience when seeking care. Look at Driggonny for a stellar example (congrats on that, by the way!). Whatever may be the case and your personal experience, I hope you find happiness too, Butterfly Witch. I have tremendous respect for you and everyone in this thread, and I apologize if I've come off disrespectful in any way.



You accuse me of judging you and then you come up swinging judging me. Okay...

I'm basing my opinions on many factors and a multitude of experiences both my own and second hand. I've been part of support groups and even some support call lines and I could tell you stories that would make you lose faith in humanity.

Look, I'm not judging you. I'm not bashing you. I'm not here yelling at you because you had privilege or had a good job or that you have all the things that you have. I'm not even poopoo'ing all the shit you have likely had to go through. I have no doubt in my mind that you've had to overcome challenges and difficulties that were hard as fuck.

And you know what? I couldn't be happier for you. I'm so glad that you had it in you to push through, break free and accomplish all that you have accomplished. It literally elates me to know that there is someone out there who survived, in my opinion, one of the hardest challenges we as humans can face. That you were able to overcome and keep doing so despite the fact that the challenges are oncoming is something that truly brings joy to my heart.

Now please, don't advocate for others who are in a worse position than you to have a steeper price of entry.

I could count the graves of those who I have personally witnessed dwindle into despair and depression and take their own lives because they have no other option, because they're tired of waiting 2+ years for a phone call that never comes, because they're tired of living the life of abuse by people who are supposed to love and support them and instead destroy them and berate them, tired of living under welfare of others and being worried about their next mean comes from or if they're going to have a home to sleep in, let alone a bed.

There's a reason sex work is so prevalent within the trans community and I'd wager it's not due to personal preference. There's a reason STI's, drug and alcohol abuse, self harm and suicide is so prevalent in the trans community. I'll give you a hint: it's not because people aren't strong enough.

Don't be offended by being called out on privilege or even having said privilege. It's not a dirty word or something that somehow minimizes your suffering and pain or reduces your efforts and accomplishments. It doesn't make you "lesser than".

Just remember that just because you had those options and opportunities others may not and it's not because of lack of trying, want, desire, strength or conviction.

Yes, I'm familiar with drigonny's situation. I personally provided her with the resources, clinic phone numbers and some emotional support that she has today.


If you want to talk some more, and I'd personally love to, please PM me so we can carry on the conversation without overwhelming the thread. I would love to hear more about your experiences and the challenges you've had to overcome.
 

Valanarro

Member
Hello transgaf, I need your help. I'm not sure how to go about the proper steps to transition. I've already come out to my close friends and family a while back as MtF. I have wanted to do this for a while now but I really want to make the first step however I am at a point where I don't know where to start. I want to do this all legit and I would really appreciate some help. Do I just talk about it to my primary care physician? Should I start with seeing a therapist? I know there is a place across town that offers hormone therapy for the trans community. Really hoping for some helpful tips. Living in the Vegas area if it helps.
 
Hello transgaf, I need your help. I'm not sure how to go about the proper steps to transition. I've already come out to my close friends and family a while back as MtF. I have wanted to do this for a while now but I really want to make the first step however I am at a point where I don't know where to start. I want to do this all legit and I would really appreciate some help. Do I just talk about it to my primary care physician? Should I start with seeing a therapist? I know there is a place across town that offers hormone therapy for the trans community. Really hoping for some helpful tips. Living in the Vegas area if it helps.

Welcome to the thread!

You can certainly talk to your primary care physician but more than likely they will punt you off to a clinic. If you already know of a clinic that works with the trans community then I'd certainly encourage you to give them a call and ask them what you need to do to get an appointment and how the whole process goes with them. Each clinic will do it in their own way so they'll tell you what you need to do and all that.

Don't be afraid of asking them questions such as cost and all that, they're used to these kinds of questions.
 

Valanarro

Member
Welcome to the thread!

You can certainly talk to your primary care physician but more than likely they will punt you off to a clinic. If you already know of a clinic that works with the trans community then I'd certainly encourage you to give them a call and ask them what you need to do to get an appointment and how the whole process goes with them. Each clinic will do it in their own way so they'll tell you what you need to do and all that.

Don't be afraid of asking them questions such as cost and all that, they're used to these kinds of questions.
Thanks. I actually emailed one earlier today and am going back and forth with them a bit but I'm still waiting for some answers and was worried they wouldn't take me because I wasn't going about the proper channels. I'd call them but I just feel kinda odd about physically talking about it, but I'm gonna have to get over that eventually I suppose.
 
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