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[pigeon]

Just wait until you get your first real paycheck at $20+ / hour and you will understand.

This is really an embarrassing thing for you to have posted. Lots of people who support higher taxes make a lot more than you do -- they just also, you know, support government programs that will help people who don't.

The government taking 1/3 of every paycheck is a cruel joke. I'd literally be in the process of buying a house right now if my taxes weren't so high.

I still don't understand what you people are doing wrong to be paying 33% of your income in taxes.

 

[AlteredBeast]

This is really an embarrassing thing for you to have posted. Lots of people who support higher taxes make a lot more than you do -- they just also, you know, support government programs that will help people who don't.



I still don't understand what you people are doing wrong to be paying 33% of your income in taxes.

1st comment - Exactly. Most months (I work partially on commission), I make around 50/hr. I am, the literal embodiment of middle class and I pay next to nothing in taxes.

2nd Comment - You don't understand, they are extremely wealthy time travelers from 40 years ago...

 

[Marty Chinn]

I still don't understand what you people are doing wrong to be paying 33% of your income in taxes.

Withhold too much so they can get a tax return to suddenly have money they wouldn't have had and then go buy something with that money.

 

[LCGeek]

After this and the very reasonable interview on 60 minutes last night, I'm actually starting to like Trump. At the very least he is night and day better than any of the other Republican nominees, that much is obvious.

Saw a blog the other day that hit the bullseye on his point. I know trump is full of crap but politicians are so scripted and contrived in comparison to him it's a breath of fresh air for some in this country.

 

[MWS Natural]

And I'm sorry if this sounds selfish, but as a middle class citizen I desperately want lower taxes. Just wait until you get your first real paycheck at $20+ / hour and you will understand. The government taking 1/3 of every paycheck is a cruel joke. I'd literally be in the process of buying a house right now if my taxes weren't so high.

Think it's hilarious you think $20 is a "real paycheck".


I wouldn't mind paying more if it went better services and a legit safety net for the poor. The rich need to pay more than their fair share for this thing to really work.

 

[massoluk]

After this and the very reasonable interview on 60 minutes last night, I'm actually starting to like Trump. At the very least he is night and day better than any of the other Republican nominees, that much is obvious.

And I'm sorry if this sounds selfish, but as a middle class citizen I desperately want lower taxes. Just wait until you get your first real paycheck at $20+ / hour and you will understand. The government taking 1/3 of every paycheck is a cruel joke. I'd literally be in the process of buying a house right now if my taxes weren't so high.

Laugh fucking out loud.

 

[TrounceX]

You guys are the ones who should be embarrassed. That's a decent entry level wage where I'm from. How is it embarrassing? I just got out of college this Spring and I worked hard to get this job. You guys are super harsh, my goodness.

I was just making the point that it's a reality check seeing 33% of your income go into taxes every paycheck. This is a lot more than I was paying before. And then the top 1% pay less in taxes as a percent of income than I do. That's a joke.

I do believe that cutting middle class taxes will result in economic growth and I made the example that I would like to buy a house but am not quite there financially. Apparently this is controversial and deserved of ridicule. I'll make sure to stay away from these threads and you pretentious fucks from now on. Carry on now.

 

[Citadelofmythoughts]

Just wait until you get your first real paycheck

pretentious fucks

Huh.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I do believe that cutting middle class taxes will result in economic growth and I made the example that I would like to buy a house but am not quite there financially. Apparently this is controversial and deserved of ridicule. I'll make sure to stay away from these threads and you pretentious fucks from now on. Carry on now.

Buying a house isn't going to help stimulate economic growth. If anything, it's going to tie up your money that could have been used to stimulate growth.

 

[AlteredBeast]

You guys are the ones who should be embarrassed. That's a decent entry level wage where I'm from. How is it embarrassing? I just got out of college this Spring and I worked hard to get this job. You guys are super harsh, my goodness.

I was just making the point that it's a reality check seeing 33% of your income go into taxes every paycheck. This is a lot more than I was paying before. And then the top 1% pay less in taxes as a percent of income than I do. That's a joke.

I do believe that cutting middle class taxes will result in economic growth and I made the example that I would like to buy a house but am not quite there financially. Apparently this is controversial and deserved of ridicule. I'll make sure to stay away from these threads and you pretentious fucks from now on. Carry on now.

You are not paying 33% on 40k. Not even if you tried. I am not sure what you don't understand. You just said "entry level wage" but 20/hr is not good money. It is fine for someone just out of college, but you will work until the day you die or become a social security slave if that is all you make, it is not decent money unless you are living in a rural community with relatively few bills.

 

[MrGerbils]

You guys are the ones who should be embarrassed. That's a decent entry level wage where I'm from. How is it embarrassing? I just got out of college this Spring and I worked hard to get this job. You guys are super harsh, my goodness.

I was just making the point that it's a reality check seeing 33% of your income go into taxes every paycheck. This is a lot more than I was paying before. And then the top 1% pay less in taxes as a percent of income than I do. That's a joke.

I do believe that cutting middle class taxes will result in economic growth and I made the example that I would like to buy a house but am not quite there financially. Apparently this is controversial and deserved of ridicule. I'll make sure to stay away from these threads and you pretentious fucks from now on. Carry on now.

$20hr works out to just over $40,000 a year, which puts you in the 25% tax bracket... remember that 25% is a marginal tax rate, so it doesn't mean 25% of your total income.

To quote a quick google search:
"If you are a single filer and earned $40,000 in 2014, you will pay 10 percent on the first $9,075, 15 percent on the next $27,825 and 25 percent on the remaining $3,100. This gives you a total tax liability of $5,856.25."

If you are paying 33% of your paycheck to federal taxes while making $40,000 a year, something is seriously wrong.

Apparently this is controversial and deserved of ridicule. I'll make sure to stay away from these threads and you pretentious fucks from now on. Carry on now.

You're not being ridiculed because the people here are pretentious, but because you came in here talking down to everyone about "when they get their first real paycheck" (at $20 an hour, mind you) all while having absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

This is exactly why terrible politicians like Trump are so effective. Because people are not informed. And I'm willing to bet you leave this thread not having learned anything, but instead getting more defensive and doubling down on your misinformation... not sure what the solution to that is. But your ignorance combined with your arrogance is what led to people being dismissive of your opinion.

 

[TrounceX]

Dogpile in full force.

I meant to say that many younger people, some on GAF who are in high school / college and working part time, don't understand yet the tax burden on the middle class. It was a shock to me. It will be a shock to others. Your perspective changes when you are the one paying for these policies.

 

[Lace]

I do taxes for a living and I'm always intrigued by the thought that lowering tax rates simplify the process. The question is never the tax rate but what your taxable income is. There are different rules for s-corps, c-corps, partnerships and individuals. You must consider everything such as case law, revenue rulings, final regulations, temporary regulations, and the internal revenue code. I can't imagine how it can be simplified without creating new tax opportunities.

 

[Citadelofmythoughts]

Dogpile in full force.

I meant to say that many younger people, some on GAF who are in high school / college and working part time, don't understand yet the tax burden on the middle class. It was a shock to me. It will be a shock to others. Your perspective changes when you are the one paying for these policies.

As I and others have stated, we've been paying for those policies for a long time, I've probably been paying them longer than you've been breathing.

Some of us understand that taxes pay for civilization.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Dogpile in full force.

I meant to say that many younger people, some on GAF who are in high school / college and working part time, don't understand yet the tax burden on the middle class. It was a shock to me. It will be a shock to others. Your perspective changes when you are the one paying for these policies.

If you don't look back on these posts in 10 years and laugh, it will be a sad day for you and yours.

You aren't paying dick for "these policies." At 40k/year, you are still receiving WAY more than what you are paying in from every facet of government you come in contact with. Your marginal tax rate is around 15%...not even close to the 33% that pretty much nobody pays...

 

[numble]

$20hr works out to just over $40,000 a year, which puts you in the 25% tax bracket... remember that 25% is a marginal tax rate, so it doesn't mean 25% of your total income.

To quote a quick google search:
"If you are a single filer and earned $40,000 in 2014, you will pay 10 percent on the first $9,075, 15 percent on the next $27,825 and 25 percent on the remaining $3,100. This gives you a total tax liability of $5,856.25."

If you are paying 33% of your paycheck to federal taxes while making $40,000 a year, something is seriously wrong.

He is probably including FICA, which is a federal tax that is a flat 7.65% rate on $40,000.

 

[xenist]

I am now 41 years old and I've been involved and interested with politics for a long, long time. I have yet to see a proposed tax plan without vague nonsense like "closing loopholes." You'd think all these economists, all those years would have at least come up with a new platitude.

Also, nice wink at his class with getting rid of the estate, sorry, death tax. We wouldn't want poor trust fund babies paying taxes once daddy croaks, wouldn't we?

 

[MrGerbils]

He is probably including FICA, which is a federal tax that is a flat 6.2% rate on $40,000.

To be totally fair, he's probably including FICA, his state income tax, and hell probably even his company health insurance.

 

[gamechanger87]

As I and others have stated, we've been paying for those policies for a long time, I've probably been paying them longer than you've been breathing.

Some of us understand that taxes pay for civilization.

Taxes pay for an unsustainable civilization unfortunately. Every penny you pay in social security tax is burned immediately. Our current unfunded liability is an absurd figure and total wealth confiscation can only dent it and push it out a few years.

I think one of the biggest reasons that we run into a stalemate on these issues is because Republicans don't want to raise taxes without major benefit reforms, yes I'm looking at you social security. And Democrats prefer to say lets just raise taxes on the rich to pay for everything when everyone knows that all it does is kick the bucket. Republicans don't want to raise taxes because their base hates paying the government and the democrats don't want to do wholesale benefit reform because they looks the pushing Granny over the cliff attack add.

 

[bender]

To be totally fair, he's probably including FICA, his state income tax, and hell probably even his company health insurance.

That would be my guess as well.

 

[SapientWolf]

Seems like he's justifying a massive tax cut for the wealthy with a relatively small (but necessary) tax cut for the poor and middle class.The simplifications could create even more "loopholes", since there are special tax situations for the wealthy because of how much income they're getting through long term capital gains. I'm not confident that he could actually pay for this without making deep cuts to the budget.

 

[ThisGuy]

I just want to chime in that I like that someone genuinely appears to want to help small businesses. I think America and its citizens would be better off if we had a society that supported small businesses. Because right now, to my somewhat limited knowledge, it is extremely trying to maintain a small company.

But it all sounds like feel good fluff to me.

 

[numble]

The simplifications could create even more "loopholes", since there are special tax situations for the wealthy because of how much income they're getting through long term capital gains.

Can you explain what loopholes would be created?

 

[AlteredBeast]

I just want to chime in that I like that someone genuinely appears to want to help small businesses. I think America and its citizens would be better off if we had a society that supported small businesses. Because right now, to my somewhat limited knowledge, it is extremely trying to maintain a small company.

But it all sounds like feel good fluff to me.

If only you knew... I work in insurance and the amount of money small businesses pay for Insurance coverages is absolutely INSANE.

Just for example. A tree-trimmer in California that pays an employee $100 for a day's work (hypothetically), could pay another $60 or $70 in business insurance for that employee's labor. On top of that, there is potential health insurance costs, job training, safety trainings and OSHA compliance, etc. that could total another 50-60 bucks on top of that.

So, the question then becomes, why do things legitimately? When John's Tree Service down the block involves him doing everything on a cash basis under the table, and he charges rates 20% less than the guy doing it the right way, he is effectively earning tons more per job, even at a much cheaper rate. Sure, if his employees get hurt, he could be screwed with a lawsuit, but that's why you hire illegals, they are too afraid to sue and even if they did, couldn't afford a proper attorney. The way we treat small businesses, especially blue collar types like the example I mentioned, is asinine and the reason behind a lot of business failure. Things need to change to be more small business friendly.

 

[LosDaddie]

To be totally fair, he's probably including FICA, his state income tax, and hell probably even his company health insurance.

Most likely, yes. Having a significant portion taken out of your paycheck is disappointing.
Personally, I always love the "WAIT UNTIL YOU GET YOUR FIRST REAL PAYCHECK" line, as if there aren't any other grown adults with good jobs on GAF.

 

[MrGerbils]

Yep, getting more defensive:

Dogpile in full force.

and doubling down:

I meant to say that many younger people, some on GAF who are in high school / college and working part time, don't understand yet the tax burden on the middle class. It was a shock to me. It will be a shock to others. Your perspective changes when you are the one paying for these policies.

 

[pigeon]

Taxes pay for an unsustainable civilization unfortunately. Every penny you pay in social security tax is burned immediately. Our current unfunded liability is an absurd figure and total wealth confiscation can only dent it and push it out a few years.

Every time I think I've seen the craziest post in this thread somebody new shows up to demonstrate exactly how wrong I was.

What exactly do you think is unsustainable about our system? What, exactly, is our unfunded liability, and what's the danger of it? What financial crisis could possibly be so daunting that "total wealth confiscation" (itself an amazing idea) wouldn't be able to address it?

Basically just please expand on your thesis here.

It's worth understanding that Obama actually offered Boehner heavy Social Security cuts in exchange for tax increases during the first debt ceiling crisis. The GOP rejected it. Unsurprisingly -- contrary to your analysis, a lot of the GOP base is dependent on Social Security and has no desire to see it cut. Which is good, since there's no justifiable reason to cut it when just removing the payroll tax cap would make it solvent forever. Not that the concept of solvency for a welfare program is meaningful anyway.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Yeah, the income cap for welfare would be the easiest fucking thing to get rid of.

 

[TrounceX]

Most likely, yes. Having a significant portion taken out of your paycheck is disappointing.
Personally, I always love the "WAIT UNTIL YOU GET YOUR FIRST REAL PAYCHECK" line, as if there aren't any other grown adults with good jobs on GAF.

Correct, and this is including state + federal. I never said just federal income tax, I said 1/3 of my paycheck goes to the government.

I should have left out the line about "real paycheck", got it. No need for so many to be seemingly personally offended. My impression is this forum skews young and high school / college aged. And my other impression is that many younger people prefer very liberal policies without having yet experienced any.. gosh I don't know what to say here to not offend somebody.. somewhat of a tax burden? This was me 6 months ago. I think that having this experience is important to temper a persons perspective on tax policy. I think the middle class pays too much while the rich and many corporations pay too little. Isn't that basically the correct conclusion given the facts? I didn't think this was so controversial.

Yep, getting more defensive:



and doubling down:

Thanks for the play by play. I'm glad to give you something to lash out against this late at night.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Correct, and this is including state + federal. I never said just federal income tax, I said 1/3 of my paycheck goes to the government.

I should have left out the line about "real paycheck", got it. No need for so many to be seemingly personally offended. My impression is this forum skews young and high school / college aged. And my other impression is that many younger people prefer very liberal policies without having yet experienced any.. gosh I don't know what to say here to not offend somebody.. somewhat of a tax burden? This was me 6 months ago. I think that having this experience is important to temper a persons perspective on tax policy. I think the middle class pays too much while the rich and many corporations pay too little. Isn't that basically the correct conclusion given the facts? I didn't think this was so controversial.

The wealthy and corporate America pays way, way too little, that is correct. But the middle class doesn't pay enough, either. You are actually a part of a very large segment of the population who believes themselves to be middle class, but is probably more accurately called "lower class". Try doing adult stuff on your income and let us know how that works for you. If you ferret away even a little bit of savings (read: retirement money, rainy day fund, 3-months bills paid in case of catastrophic accident or job dismissal, etc.) on that income, I would be shocked.

 

[NullPointer]

You are not paying 33% on 40k. Not even if you tried. I am not sure what you don't understand. You just said "entry level wage" but 20/hr is not good money. It is fine for someone just out of college, but you will work until the day you die or become a social security slave if that is all you make, it is not decent money unless you are living in a rural community with relatively few bills.

For the future, whats the minimum a person needs to make a year to avoid getting ridiculed for considering it a real paycheck? Whats a 'decent' amount?

 

[TrounceX]

The wealthy and corporate America pays way, way too little, that is correct. But the middle class doesn't pay enough, either. You are actually a part of a very large segment of the population who believes themselves to be middle class, but is probably more accurately called "lower class". Try doing adult stuff on your income and let us know how that works for you. If you ferret away even a little bit of savings (read: retirement money, rainy day fund, 3-months bills paid in case of catastrophic accident or job dismissal, etc.) on that income, I would be shocked.

Luckily for me it's a union job for the government with plenty of stability and potential for growth. I have short term and long term disability insurance plus FMLA if needed. And free healthcare, and a pension, and deferred comp, and a lot of other things I'm still figuring out.

None of this changes the fact that I still had sticker shock when I saw how much money gets taken out every paycheck. I have debt to repay, things to do, a life to live. 1/3 is too much. Sorry you don't agree.

 

[AlteredBeast]

For the future, whats the minimum a person needs to make a year to avoid getting ridiculed for considering it a real paycheck? Whats a 'decent' amount?

I am not quanitfying a "real paycheck," but 40k is not good money for an adult looking to have a successful and happy life. If you have no rent/mortgage, than 40k would be fine and dandy for doing all sorts of things, but most people are going to spend a good chunk of that money on living situation alone. Never mind food, healthcare, entertainment, transportation, utilities, etc.

I am not belittling anyone's income, but nobody should be waving 40k around like it is some kind of great pay.

 

[Link]

Luckily for me it's a union job for the government with plenty of stability and potential for growth. I have short term and long term disability insurance plus FMLA if needed. And free healthcare, and a pension, and deferred comp, and a lot of other things I'm still figuring out.

None of this changes the fact that I still had sticker shock when I saw how much money gets taken out every paycheck. I have debt to repay, things to do, a life to live. 1/3 is too much. Sorry you don't agree.

You have all that and are still complaining about paying too much in taxes? You are definitely new to life.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

I am not quanitfying a "real paycheck," but 40k is not good money for an adult looking to have a successful and happy life. If you have no rent/mortgage, than 40k would be fine and dandy for doing all sorts of things, but most people are going to spend a good chunk of that money on living situation alone. Never mind food, healthcare, entertainment, transportation, utilities, etc.

I am not belittling anyone's income, but nobody should be waving 40k around like it is some kind of great pay.

Depends on where you live brah. In LA/NY/SF/etc no. In detroit/oklahoma/etc. Sure!

 

[Lace]

Luckily for me it's a union job for the government with plenty of stability and potential for growth. I have short term and long term disability insurance plus FMLA if needed. And free healthcare, and a pension, and deferred comp, and a lot of other things I'm still figuring out.

None of this changes the fact that I still had sticker shock when I saw how much money gets taken out every paycheck. I have debt to repay, things to do, a life to live. 1/3 is too much. Sorry you don't agree.

One third of your paycheck will not be in taxes at 40k income (if it is you'll be getting a big refund). I'd take some time and see what other expenses are being taken against your paychecks. Perhaps you're enrolled in a 401k or you didn't take the time to calculate the real percentage. I had similar sticker shock and then realized it was only 20% when I did the math. I'll also be getting a refund so overall not as bad as it might appear.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Luckily for me it's a union job for the government with plenty of stability and potential for growth. I have short term and long term disability insurance plus FMLA if needed. And free healthcare, and a pension, and deferred comp, and a lot of other things I'm still figuring out.

None of this changes the fact that I still had sticker shock when I saw how much money gets taken out every paycheck. I have debt to repay, things to do, a life to live. 1/3 is too much. Sorry you don't agree.

Those are awesome benefits, I won't disagree. Society can't have it both ways, though. You can feel like it is too much, but what you pay is a hell of a lot less than what you would pay in other first world countries for that amount of income. I can't blame you specifically, but it is your attitude and voice that makes it unfeasible for taxes to be raised, even amidst crumbling infrastructure and an undeniably untenable America.

 

[MrGerbils]

Luckily for me it's a union job for the government with plenty of stability and potential for growth. I have short term and long term disability insurance plus FMLA if needed. And free healthcare, and a pension, and deferred comp, and a lot of other things I'm still figuring out.

None of this changes the fact that I still had sticker shock when I saw how much money gets taken out every paycheck. I have debt to repay, things to do, a life to live. 1/3 is too much. Sorry you don't agree.

So you have a union job for the government, with "free" healthcare and a pension, but you want to cut taxes.

Here's the deal: even if you didn't have a government job, if taxes were lower, that money wouldn't just go to your pocket, instead you would be paid less because the market would realize that less money could go farther towards covering your cost of living because less would be coming out of your paycheck to go towards the programs that provide government employees with pay checks, healthcare, and pensions.

 

[krazykei]

Correct, and this is including state + federal. I never said just federal income tax, I said 1/3 of my paycheck goes to the government.

I should have left out the line about "real paycheck", got it. No need for so many to be seemingly personally offended. My impression is this forum skews young and high school / college aged. And my other impression is that many younger people prefer very liberal policies without having yet experienced any.. gosh I don't know what to say here to not offend somebody.. somewhat of a tax burden? This was me 6 months ago. I think that having this experience is important to temper a persons perspective on tax policy. I think the middle class pays too much while the rich and many corporations pay too little. Isn't that basically the correct conclusion given the facts? I didn't think this was so controversial.



Thanks for the play by play. I'm glad to give you something to lash out against this late at night.

I don't know if everyone is on the same page here, but making 20+ straight out of college is pretty decent. Plenty of people make sub 20 and it was/is a little shitty to call it less than a real paycheck. The tax burden fresh college grads feel is real though especially cause you're most likely filing as single. As you continue working and increase your wage while also getting married/kids is when you start seeing the tax breaks. When you get to the point of itemized deductions you realize the tax burden isn't really a tax burden, but getting there is the rough part. Middle class isn't all about what you make in income, you have to take into consideration a multitude of factors. If you consider a 40k salary as a single taxpayer "middle class" then hell yea the tax burden is rough, especially if you live in an expensive city/state (ex. New York, San Fran, etc) but move away from the urban areas where the living expenses are lower and maybe a state with no income tax and you're going to see more disposable income. Discussion involving income, taxes, and living wages even is not homogeneous.
That said, I get where you're coming from. The older guys/gals here probably don't remember how it felt to really pay substantial amount of taxes after getting your first "career" paycheck and when it costs 1k for a studio apartment (like where I live), the tax burden feels like a huge weight.

 

[Hello.]

I should have left out the line about "real paycheck", got it. No need for so many to be seemingly personally offended. My impression is this forum skews young and high school / college aged. And my other impression is that many younger people prefer very liberal policies without having yet experienced any.. gosh I don't know what to say here to not offend somebody.. somewhat of a tax burden? This was me 6 months ago. I think that having this experience is important to temper a persons perspective on tax policy. I think the middle class pays too much while the rich and many corporations pay too little. Isn't that basically the correct conclusion given the facts? I didn't think this was so controversial.

Don't be alarmed. You can't do much on this forum. You are right to believe that a video game discussion board would target its primary demographics, being young adults in college or lower. Hilariously enough, it's the opposite.

Those are awesome benefits, I won't disagree. Society can't have it both ways, though. You can feel like it is too much, but what you pay is a hell of a lot less than what you would pay in other first world countries for that amount of income. I can't blame you specifically, but it is your attitude and voice that makes it unfeasible for taxes to be raised, even amidst crumbling infrastructure and an undeniably untenable America.

So if he started to sugar coat his arguments for the reputation of strangers and to appeal to a lower common denominator, only then anything he says is valid to you? Don't be childish. Politics is a major gamble of arguments, my friend. The loudest are heard most, as precisely evidenced by Trump.

 

[SapientWolf]

Can you explain what loopholes would be created?

Depends on what the simplifications are. A lot of the tax code is there to clumsily close existing loopholes (like the AMT).

 

[TrounceX]

I am not quanitfying a "real paycheck," but 40k is not good money for an adult looking to have a successful and happy life. If you have no rent/mortgage, than 40k would be fine and dandy for doing all sorts of things, but most people are going to spend a good chunk of that money on living situation alone. Never mind food, healthcare, entertainment, transportation, utilities, etc.

I am not belittling anyone's income, but nobody should be waving 40k around like it is some kind of great pay.

Please, I already clarified that this was not the intention of my post. I'm sorry you read into it that way, I could see how it could be read into that way, but I did not mean it like that. I already apologized. I'm not waving anything around here.

Those are awesome benefits, I won't disagree. Society can't have it both ways, though. You can feel like it is too much, but what you pay is a hell of a lot less than what you would pay in other first world countries for that amount of income. I can't blame you specifically, but it is your attitude and voice that makes it unfeasible for taxes to be raised, even amidst crumbling infrastructure and an undeniably untenable America.

Well it's certainly a hard pill to swallow when, like we've already agreed, many people and corporations aren't paying their fair share. Meanwhile there's also things like the ridiculous military budget and a totally screwed up healthcare system weighing down the budget.

Then there's me the college grad who has to live at home paying off student debt, just trying to get ahead, like buying a home and earning equity or investing, doing the right things, but can't swing it financially. Then people tell me I'm not paying enough in taxes now either, when it's actually a pretty sizable amount. Man oh man. Rough crowd.

 

[AlteredBeast]

So if he started to sugar coat his arguments for the reputation of strangers and to appeal to a lower common denominator, only then anything he says is valid to you? Don't be childish. Politics is a major gamble of arguments, my friend. The loudest are heard most, as precisely evidenced by Trump.

I did not mean his comments on this forum, just the attitude of "taxes are too high" when going to the ballot box is what is screwing us over big time. Taxes are not too high. That line of thinking is and will continue to be the cause of major issues going forward on both a local and federal level.

 

[Nilaul]

Edit; stupid question of mine.

 

[MrGerbils]

Then there's me the college grad who has to live at home paying off student debt, just trying to get ahead, like buying a home and earning equity or investing, doing the right things, but can't swing it financially. Then people tell me I'm not paying enough in taxes now either, when it's actually a pretty sizable amount. Man oh man. Rough crowd.

FWIW, I want to clarify that I'm not one of the people saying that you're not paying enough in taxes.

I'm saying that if you think Trumps plan for federal income tax is smart, you're ill informed. And that there's no way you're currently paying 33% in federa income tax as it is.

What you should want is for corporations and the 1% (and really the .1%) to pay their fair share.

Once you stop earning most of your income in a salary, and instead on investments, you basically leave the majority of the regular people's tax game behind. That's the part we need reformed.

I don't think anyone in here is saying that someone who makes $40,000 a year should pay more taxes. What I'm saying at least is that you're not middle class. You're not even near the middle tax bracket. Your taxes probably should be cut, and most of all your student loans shouldn't be so high. Trump's super simplistic plan won't solve your woes, and will only create bigger problems for the country (not that there's any way he could actually enact them anyway though).

 

[AlteredBeast]

I don't think anyone in here is saying that someone who makes $40,000 a year should pay more taxes.

I am. But I do agree that he isn't middle class. I either wrote-up and deleted or posted my thoughts on that a few hours ago. He is justg part of the very large segment of the population who believes he is middle class, but is actually not.

 

[MrGerbils]

I am. But I do agree that he isn't middle class. I either wrote-up and deleted or posted my thoughts on that a few hours ago. He is justg part of the very large segment of the population who believes he is middle class, but is actually not.

If we wanna go balls to the wall fantasy and say that his student loans should be forgiven (because college should be paid for by the state), he shouldn't have to worry about health care (because that should be paid for by the state too), and we should ramp up social security because 401ks aren't a good replacement for the pensions everyone used to have.... Then yes, were all of that covered by the state, I agree he should then pay more in taxes.

But in a realistic view of current American politics, with the services he's currently getting from his government, no, IMO, Someone in his tax bracket shouldn't be paying more.

 

[Alcoremortis]

Luckily for me it's a union job for the government with plenty of stability and potential for growth. I have short term and long term disability insurance plus FMLA if needed. And free healthcare, and a pension, and deferred comp, and a lot of other things I'm still figuring out.

None of this changes the fact that I still had sticker shock when I saw how much money gets taken out every paycheck. I have debt to repay, things to do, a life to live. 1/3 is too much. Sorry you don't agree.

You'll probably get a lot of it back in tax rebates, you know.

 

[TrounceX]

I am. But I do agree that he isn't middle class. I either wrote-up and deleted or posted my thoughts on that a few hours ago. He is justg part of the very large segment of the population who believes he is middle class, but is actually not.

Who knows. Forums are a terrible medium for this kind of discussion and I was reminded tonight why I don't post often.

I really don't care what kind of category you want to put my income level in. Doesn't mean anything to me except now, 2 hours later, we've come full circle and most seem to agree that myself (and probably many others) pay a significant amount in taxes, and that it can be alarming to someone who just stared making a decently low, less than average, not a career, not middle class, and especially not a real paycheck.

The only things I've learned are that I am not middle class, should be embarrassed, should be thankful, should get a real job, should try adult stuff then get back to you, should get educated, and most of all should not mention cutting taxes around AlteredBeast or MrGerbil at any point in the future again.

Good night GAF.

 

[numble]

I am. But I do agree that he isn't middle class. I either wrote-up and deleted or posted my thoughts on that a few hours ago. He is justg part of the very large segment of the population who believes he is middle class, but is actually not.

Why do you disagree that $40,000 for a single individual is not middle-class? In the US, the median individual income is $27,000 and the average individual income is $40.5k.