-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
"God's Beard!"
Member
she has a godlike x-factor infinite, that's about it
Karsticles
Member
Honestly, no one has ever put that much work into normal Phoenix to show what the answer to this is. One would need to make use of assists, etc. for her. I sincerely doubt it, though, unless you want to spend meter. If you have enough meter, Phoenix/Dormammu kills anyone.
So then point Phoenix is pretty much ass?
She looks like she has a really good set of tools with her 8 way airdash and flight etc.
Karsticles
Member
She's not ass, she just doesn't have ToD combos. In terms of rushdown ability, she's like the best of both worlds from Magneto and Dormammu.
"God's Beard!"
Member
She does, because she has to run like a bat out of hell. You could always put her on point and super x-factor raw tag the instant the match starts like deathwish.
Karsticles
Member
I've OCVed several people on this forum with Vanilla Phoenix, and I don't even use assists. I don't think she necessarily needs to run when played right. She is simply a high risk character.
I mean, if in the tournament scene, Magneto OCVs people all the time, and Dormammu OCVs people all the time, why would Phoenix need to run away?
"God's Beard!"
Member
I just mean she has to be more careful because of easy chip deaths etc.
Karsticles
Member
Um, she just teleports on reaction and does c.L. Or does Phoenix Rage, which beats Stalking Flare. I'm tellin' ya, people just haven't played Phoenix on point. She's surprisingly resilient.
Most people think she's fragile because she's always getting snapped in and mixed up. Of course she's going to die from that often. Any character will. If you start her on point you don't have to worry about that.
She definitely has to be more careful, and yeah, chip damage is super scary for her. I would probably run Phoenix (TK Overdrive) / Doom (Plasma Beam) / Amaterasu (Cold Star) for her. Lots of stuff to do with her earned meter if she dies, Plasma Beam for teleport cross-ups, and Cold Star for endless mix-ups and teleport cross-ups.
At least, Cold Star, I think, is her best assist. I just kind of deferred to Doom since he goes so well with Ammy, but I'd be open to another projectile assist for her. She should be in her opponent's face all the time regardless.
Edit: It's too bad her j.d+H isn't an overhead. That would be amazing for Bolts of Balthakk.
Stop talking about Phoeni guys, I just redid my team slots for the umpteenth time saying "focus on one thing" and now I'm already thinking about how much fun it is to just to play high speed chicken with her solo.
You know, that's what I'm going to do tomorrow, some Phoenix combos and her entry in that training manual of mine.
You know, that's what I'm going to do tomorrow, some Phoenix combos and her entry in that training manual of mine.
Karsticles
Member
Oh man. You start by saying you don't want the temptation, and end with giving in to it. I love it.
I would love to do some double Phoenix on point matches with someone sometime. She's super fun.
The essence of one of my bigger problems plying Marvel right there. I know how much I should optimize something and make it as devious as possible, but then suddenly X character I dabbled with becomes the new hotness in my mind and I think "ok, a day away playing the shouldn't be so bad, right?"
I wonder if Phoenix (TK Shot)/Doom (Missiles)/Dante (Weasel Shot/Jam Session) has anything going for itself.
Tangent: What are Phoenix's safe blockstrings? I'm guessing she's kinda got the Magnus stuff with c.LMH - Fly - j.S, but is c.LMH - TK Shot/Trap/Overdrive L noteworthy in any way?
Karsticles
Member
TK Overdrive is -1 as normal Phoenix, +2 as Dark Phoenix.
TK Shot is -13 on block.
TK Trap L is +3, but it often doesn't connect because the activation box is so small.
TK Overdrive M is +4 on block, but a good portion of it is going to whiff, and it's just not safe.
Her fly - j.S is several frames slower than Magneto's. I'm not sure how safe it is, never used it in practice.
Aside from assists, you have two good options for her blockstrings:
1) Keep using c.L. It's rapid fire, and -1 on block, so if you get pushblocked you're probably safe.
2) Her launcher is -3, but she rolls away from the opponent if it's blocked, so it's super safe. I don't think it's even possible to punish outside of XFCing.
3) Her s.H is +3, but obviously won't work on everyone.
Healing Field should really recover yellow life...
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'll play Phoenix(trap)/Wolverine(Slash)/Dante(Jam) against you.
Karsticles
Member
Get an internet connection and we'll set a time sir.
Also, fun fact: Frank West's zombie toss doesn't have projectile life. I've never messed with it before, but I think I should now.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Slash assist pushes the opponent towards you if it crosses up right?
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, but it's really hard to make happen consistently. For a while I was running Wolverine/Dormammu/Ryu, and Dormammu can use Berserker Slash to relaunch, but half the time it pushed my opponent away instead of toward me. -_-
It works outside the normal projectile durability system and doesn't interact with other projectiles?
Karsticles
Member
That's what this fellow on SRK says:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...ask-questions-here.148885/page-3#post-7575852
That's interesting. I wonder if zoning as frank would work- if you're able to get the stream of zombies going, it'd be difficult to stop, especially if they don't interact even with projectile hypers. You could back him with a high durability beam to control the ground, and give him an anti-air assist to keep control of the skies when they resort to jumping out of the spam.
Karsticles
Member
Naw, the windup is too big. It's just good for getting you in.
SolarPowered
Member
Don't think about it too much. It'll fry your brain.
Yeah I know, I could fry my brain in the same way trying to rationalize how we ended up with a umvc3 without megaman.
BaroqueSampson
Member
How do I Nova with triple arrow assist?
Yeah, X-Factoring in the middle of a combo messes me up, it's really something I have to work on. If I have enough meter, I can Hyper -> X-Factor -> Hyper, but not always. It's really my fault.
I meant range, my bad.
Preach it.
Karsticles
Member
The same way you Nova in every other situation. Jump, air dash forward, j.H.
Who are you using? Vergil is pretty low health.
BaroqueSampson
Member
I gotta learn that Nova overhead nonsense.
I need Sam Alexander to do WORK
I need Sam Alexander to do WORK
These days, Taskmaster/Deadpool/Hawkeye. For Taskmaster I can do his BNB, Down Legion Arrows, X-Factor, Down Legion Arrows and it just barely kills Vergil from full health. Deadpool's a little harder to kill him outright with, and with Hawkeye I usually have to burn a Level 3. I don't know his X-factor loops.
Again, opening him up is hard, because this guy is great at mix-ups and generally gets me first.
kevo_huevo
Member
i play taskmaster on anchor and i pretty much save xf3 for him.
i imagine you could save a meter to kill vergil. i don't really practice optimized combos with him, i still do his vanilla bnb
cr.LM st.H -> Mighty Swing -> j.MH -> Mighty Swing -> j.MHS -> Shield Skills xx (x-factor), st.MH -> Shield Skills -> s.S -> j.MHS -> Legion Arrow
i'm sure someone better can point you to a non xf combo or something.
on a side rant, i need to learn a second team. not feeling spencer/wesker/taskmaster anymore. i kind of want a team that goes in a different direction/gameplan than this. any suggestions?
alright stupid team idea of the day:
Viper/Dante/Iron Fist. Lets go MvC2 team compositions!
I'll probably fall back on Viper/Dante/Haggar but we'll see.
Also, Strider assist is getting to be easy as balls to punish these days. Doesn't work as awesome for the team as I think it does.
Viper/Dante/Iron Fist. Lets go MvC2 team compositions!
I'll probably fall back on Viper/Dante/Haggar but we'll see.
Also, Strider assist is getting to be easy as balls to punish these days
. Doesn't work as awesome for the team as I think it does.I'm not the best with Felicia but, here are
A few things to keep in mind in general:
Air throw/command grab combos ( throw -> toy touch j.MMHS s.S jMMH H Delta kick ... Etc
Solo unblockables with kitty helper + rolling buckler
After an air combo you can otg with L sand splash and cancel into dancing flash.
DHCing into kitty helper can be a safe DHC in some cases.
Use dd. H to build meter if you see an opportunity to do so.(right after killing a character for example)
Also she can be a respectable bs anchor if needed.
Sorry if these seemed too obvious
EDIT: atk +s is a ghetto cartwheel move that may sometimes be useful for mixups if covered by an assist
She has good air throw resets, so abuse those.
alright stupid team idea of the day:
Viper/Dante/Iron Fist. Lets go MvC2 team compositions!
I'll probably fall back on Viper/Dante/Haggar but we'll see.
Also, Strider assist is getting to be easy as balls to punish these days
Funny little thing I noticed about Viper/Dante/Strider, it's waaaay easier to cover Strider's Vajra assist as Dante than it is with Viper (for me anyway). I get that the idea is to Rapid Seismo everywhere the opponent character is while the assist is in the air, but then when you fight things like Haggars and Taskmasters, a lot of things have to change on the fly. Especially with Lariat's invincibility time. (Smurf's teaching me a lot with his frequent 7-0s against me.)
As soon as I feel better about my offensive ability, I'm definitely going to see if going in with the assist might have merits for matchups like that.
the whole point to viper/strider is that viper is great on the ground which should be forcing people to jump in the air, and strider brings them back down. however, when you face shit like hulk or haggar or whatever they just barrel at you without giving a shit anyway. its really frustrating.
I seriously think Lariat is a better neutral assist for the team, its just doesn't give clean combo conversions like you get with Vajra.
I would play this team but magneto online... lol fuck that. cant do shit with him online, plus I can only do basic rom shit, cant do grav loops :<
well, ill be soul searchin for good chars with dormmy, will try this dudes out thought first.
Thanks! Learned some new things. Gotta hit the lab.
this is a really good viper mixup video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8nqtkulVw&feature=channel_video_title
I'm really a big fan of gotnoskill's stuff.
I'm considering indulging in my dark "tier whore" side and running three teams:
Viper/Dante/Strider
Zero/Dante/Strider
Strider/Vergil/Dante (aka Dante/Vergil/Strider)
The last one is born from a desire to run Strider on point with good assists and see if he's more fun there than on anchor. I love my ninja on any part of my teams and really should get around to brushing up with him.
Viper/Dante/Strider
Zero/Dante/Strider
Strider/Vergil/Dante (aka Dante/Vergil/Strider)
The last one is born from a desire to run Strider on point with good assists and see if he's more fun there than on anchor. I love my ninja on any part of my teams and really should get around to brushing up with him.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
GGs Smurf. My mind just completely shattered with the ending of that last match. 3 characters get mixed up by Haggar and bodied after I finally got to show that maybe, I'm not just a complete scrub for once. Mayor gets to enjoy one more term in office.
I'm noticing though that my biggest repeated mistakes playing this team are Vajra Hs on point and choosing the wrong EX move to put out in key moments. Sure, you could add not punishing to the list but I'm still learning the cast and what to push buttons against and vice versa.
For the former, I really need to figure out different ways in, preferably X-Factor less and without usage of teleports. Haggar don't care bout no damn teleport mixups. I'm feeling a little happier about my Viper though, escaping the zoning for a bit with Burn Kick feints and a dash downward to try and catch you coming from underneath is something I really should have attempted more of in the past. I also need to work on not going full panic mode when I do score a hit with Viper so I can go for best damage.
You have anything you want to add?
I'm noticing though that my biggest repeated mistakes playing this team are Vajra Hs on point and choosing the wrong EX move to put out in key moments. Sure, you could add not punishing to the list but I'm still learning the cast and what to push buttons against and vice versa.
For the former, I really need to figure out different ways in, preferably X-Factor less and without usage of teleports. Haggar don't care bout no damn teleport mixups. I'm feeling a little happier about my Viper though, escaping the zoning for a bit with Burn Kick feints and a dash downward to try and catch you coming from underneath is something I really should have attempted more of in the past. I also need to work on not going full panic mode when I do score a hit with Viper so I can go for best damage.
You have anything you want to add?
well just finishing combos would do you a lot of good. i know lag was kinda bad today and i saw you drop a ton of combos.
I don't want to talk about combos anymore. Online is fucking MURDERING my execution. :lol
BaroqueSampson
Member
No no no no no
Damn you Jeph Loeb.
WE'RE BEING OPTIMISTIC
alright stupid team idea of the day:
Viper/Dante/Iron Fist. Lets go MvC2 team compositions!
Also, Strider assist is getting to be easy as balls to punish these days
We should do a list of teams of characters that carried over from MvC2. If I was serious I'd be playing
Spiderman/Doom/Sentinel or Ironman/Storm/Morrigan.
As for Strider, Vajra already gets stuffed ALOT of the opponent is already doing a block string or hitting you. It's not quite the combo breaking capacity of Missiles.
Yeah, using vajra defensively is a huge gamble. Half the time it's sayonara strider- the hitbox really isn't that great.
Karsticles
Member
You need to learn some Taskmaster combos, because he can chain hypers as long as he wants. You shouldn't need to burn X-Factor to kill Vergil.