"Having read the novelization (which is clearly based of that 40 minutes longer version, as there are several scenes we saw in the SDCC 2015 footage), I can say this; yes, it will improve the film and yes, it will fix the largest of the flaws it has at the moment. The pacing in the first part feels better, and there is so much more character exposition, especially on the side of Stormwind. Llane has several scenes with his family that actually make you understand his character and care for the Wrynn family, there is a scene explaining what the hell Kirin Tor, the Guardian etc are and so on. I literally do not understand what idiot thought it would be a good idea to cut that out, it seriously hurts the film."
I took my wife, who knows very little of Warcraft, and she was pretty frustrated 10-15 minutes in as the characters spat out stuff like "Kirin Tor" "The Guardian" "OMG ITS FEL" etc.
I had to whisper to her wtf they were talking about. Sure they explained some of that stuff later on in the movie but it's a really, really disjointed way of introducing someone to the franchise. The movie needed some sort of well done info dump at the beginning just to give people some grounding.
"Having read the novelization (which is clearly based of that 40 minutes longer version, as there are several scenes we saw in the SDCC 2015 footage), I can say this; yes, it will improve the film and yes, it will fix the largest of the flaws it has at the moment. The pacing in the first part feels better, and there is so much more character exposition, especially on the side of Stormwind. Llane has several scenes with his family that actually make you understand his character and care for the Wrynn family, there is a scene explaining what the hell Kirin Tor, the Guardian etc are and so on. I literally do not understand what idiot thought it would be a good idea to cut that out, it seriously hurts the film."
Yep the fel stuff is the biggest culprit for what makes it feel like a bad videogame story (yes I know - it is). They just namedrop shit with little meaning - had they taken the time to explain all they know about Fel magic in the beginning it may have had more weight. Most of it came directly from Gul'dan and they still failed to fully explain it throughout the course of the entire damn movie.
It would be kind of hard to explain fel magic. You would need to introduce Kil'jaeden and Sargeras into a movie that's already doing too much and has too many characters.
Saw it over the weekend with a couple friends who also played WOW. We all really loved it but walked out kind of understanding why it'd get poor reviews. It seems to jump into some aspects of the story without much explanation or reason and to a majority of viewers that could probably seem like "dumb magic stuff" and would probably compare to the dumb stuff in a lot of the other bad video game movies.
Especially loved the fan services. Realizing they layout of the Inn, where Lothar is getting drunk, was the same as in game was the highlight of the movie for me.
I saw it yesterday and was entertained so it was a good movie by those standards.
Dominic Cooper (King Llane) was so, so bad in this though. Every time he spoke it really took me out of the movie because it felt like I was watching a guy who failed his acting 101 final or something. Just so awful. I didn't particularly care for who they cast as Khadgar either but he at least acted the part with the skill level required for a made for TV movie.
Some of the CGI really could have used some cleaning up too. Just little things like when Draka hands Thrall to Durotan for the first time, there's some weird clipping maybe? It didn't look natural to me.
Despite these criticisms I think they have a pretty solid foundation for a franchise. The story gets a bit better from here on out and I hope they learned some things from making this movie. I'm assuming China alone will make a sequel a good investment.
My poor girlfriend didn't like the movie though (she knows nothing about the story). She looked at me and said I owe her three Nicholas Sparks movies as repayment...
As someone whose never played a Warcraft game before, this movie was decent. The world and different factions of characters were interesting to me. The orcs, warriors, and mages all have there own customs and way of life. It was cool how there are different hierarchies for each.
The special effects look really good for the most part. The first shot of an orc is one of the most stunning. They're intimidatingly massive and have scary-looking weapons. There are some hiccups when the characters are in motion, but overall the CGI is really impressive. The action is well-done and has some brutal moments.
My biggest problem with the film is that I didn't feel an emotional connection to the characters. The dialogue is dry and full of exposition. There is some humor, but only a couple of bits worked for me. Overall, I probably wouldn't watch the movie again, but I think a sequel could work with better characters.
Durotan and Drakha are really the only characters worth rooting for in the whole movie. Kadghar to a lesser extent. Doomhammer really needed some more backstory or motivation to make his fatal indecision have more emotion to it. He didn't even feel like much if a character until
Durotan died
.
Lothar is a tough and peppy hero type but man his whole arc with his son is so hamfisted it fails every step of the way to truly endear him to the audience. Missed opportunities everywhere with him.
My biggest problem with the film is that I didn't feel an emotional connection to the characters. The dialogue is dry and full of exposition. There is some humor, but only a couple of bits worked for me. Overall, I probably wouldn't watch the movie again, but I think a sequel could work with better characters.
That was my biggest problem too. Exposition should have been done by a narrator at the beginning and/or throughout the movie. That would have opened the main characters up for more personality and growth.
I really don't care about Warcraft games, but I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. Came into it expecting to laugh at it, honestly, but it was really comfortable with what it was, and I found that really endearing. It doesn't waste any time explaining its world, or why things are the way they are -- which is probably why it is critically panned -- but if you can accept its premise and world without asking too many questions, it's sort of pure fun and entertainment without any pretension.
Would enjoy an extended edition, and possibly sequel.
I really don't care about Warcraft games, but I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. Came into it expecting to laugh at it, honestly, but it was really comfortable with what it was, and I found that really endearing. It doesn't waste any time explaining its world, or why things are the way they are -- which is probably why it is critically panned -- but if you can accept its premise and world without asking too many questions, it's sort of pure fun and entertainment without any pretension.
Would enjoy an extended edition, and possibly sequel.
I dunno I can completely see the guardian stuff just being too obtuse to new viewers. No explanation whatsoever for what he does and why. You can get the idea that he is some type of protector but that only goes so far when he is such a driving force in the movie. Him mixed with the fel stuff, that also isn't explained, can probably just be too far without any kind of explanation.
I dunno I can completely see the guardian stuff just being too obtuse to new viewers. No explanation whatsoever for what he does and why. You can get the idea that he is some type of protector but that only goes so far when he is such a driving force in the movie. Him mixed with the fel stuff, that also isn't explained, can probably just be too far without any kind of explanation.
i dont think its too obtuse -- they keep saying "guardian" over and over. as long as you know what the word means i think you can understand why they kept going back to that guy when they showed how he was powerful
if you happen to miss the couple of lines where Medivh talks about the Fel then it can be confusing why he got corrupted, but they did "explain" it (even if its not the whole picture).
I dunno I can completely see the guardian stuff just being too obtuse to new viewers. No explanation whatsoever for what he does and why. You can get the idea that he is some type of protector but that only goes so far when he is such a driving force in the movie. Him mixed with the fel stuff, that also isn't explained, can probably just be too far without any kind of explanation.
Right, I completely agree. The difference between something like this and say LotR is that nothing is contextualized. They attempt to sell absolutely none of it.
In LotR, they spend a lot of time introducing locales, creatures, trying to make you *believe* hobbits are a thing, that they have lives, jobs, a world all their own. They branch out slowly from there, selling the danger, etc.
Here, none of it is justified. They just show you things and say "Yeah, of course this thing exists. Why wouldn't it?" And it's true. After a while, when you see something in this movie, you just end up thinking, Okay, why not? Of course floating villages. Of course a guardian. Of course obscure magic. And absolutely, of course, orcs and the Fel.
I stopped asking questions 20 minutes in and just let those things exist in my mind without asking why. It made it enjoyable, but I understand the criticism.
i dont think its too obtuse -- they keep saying "guardian" over and over. as long as you know what the word means i think you can understand why they kept going back to that guy when they showed how he was powerful
if you happen to miss the couple of lines where Medivh talks about the Fel then it can be confusing why he got corrupted, but they did "explain" it (even if its not the whole picture).
I think the problem is they don't give a very good explanation of the fel and then you see this guy as the guardian, but then something bad happens to him and suddenly there are these other higher ups? Why don't they just help? Then he's turning into some weird monster looking guy and they talk about stopping a demon. So is he now the demon? Or is there someone else who was controlling him?
None of that stuff is explained very well in the context of the movie itself. If you come into it with even the tiniest bit of knowledge it's easy to move past but it can make the whole movie just seem dumb if you don't. It makes it seem like someone is coaxing the orcs into this world, so was that Medivh? Or was it someone controlling him?
I can completely see why the movie would just seem dumb to anyone coming into the move and giving the plot any more than a cursory glance.
I stopped asking questions 20 minutes in and just let those things exist in my mind without asking why. It made it enjoyable, but I understand the criticism.
This is what I think makes the movie enjoyable. Either you come in knowing enough to not think about it too much or you just stop thinking about it and enjoying the show. Anything past that I can see the movie coming off as a jumbled mess with bad characters.
It would be kind of hard to explain fel magic. You would need to introduce Kil'jaeden and Sargeras into a movie that's already doing too much and has too many characters.
"The Fel... a powerful cursed magic that comes from the foulest of demons. It feeds off the souls of the living. Somehow... the orcs harnessed that power."
Done, literally one line of dialogue is all we needed.
I think the problem is they don't give a very good explanation of the fel and then you see this guy as the guardian, but then something bad happens to him and suddenly there are these other higher ups? Why don't they just help? Then he's turning into some weird monster looking guy and they talk about stopping a demon. So is he now the demon? Or is there someone else who was controlling him?
None of that stuff is explained very well in the context of the movie itself. If you come into it with even the tiniest bit of knowledge it's easy to move past but it can make the whole movie just seem dumb if you don't. It makes it seem like someone is coaxing the orcs into this world, so was that Medivh? Or was it someone controlling him?
I can completely see why the movie would just seem dumb to anyone coming into the move and giving the plot any more than a cursory glance.
This is what I think makes the movie enjoyable. Either you come in knowing enough to not think about it too much or you just stop thinking about it and enjoying the show. Anything past that I can see the movie coming off as a jumbled mess with bad characters.
I think the problem is they don't give a very good explanation of the fel and then you see this guy as the guardian, but then something bad happens to him and suddenly there are these other higher ups? Why don't they just help? Then he's turning into some weird monster looking guy and they talk about stopping a demon. So is he now the demon? Or is there someone else who was controlling him?
None of that stuff is explained very well in the context of the movie itself. If you come into it with even the tiniest bit of knowledge it's easy to move past but it can make the whole movie just seem dumb if you don't. It makes it seem like someone is coaxing the orcs into this world, so was that Medivh? Or was it someone controlling him?
I can completely see why the movie would just seem dumb to anyone coming into the move and giving the plot any more than a cursory glance.
This is what I think makes the movie enjoyable. Either you come in knowing enough to not think about it too much or you just stop thinking about it and enjoying the show. Anything past that I can see the movie coming off as a jumbled mess with bad characters.
I'm not trashing on the movie by any means, I loved it as a fan of the series. I'm just explaining how I think a lot of viewers could look at the movie without pre-existing knowledge.
I just feel like they did a bad job with the Madhiv stuff. Either do it better or just do it without him. It probably would have been a better cohesive movie without the unnecessary convolution of having a bigger bad guy. I understand that's how the story works but that doesn't mean it translates well to a movie without already having that knowledge.
"The Fel... a powerful cursed magic that comes from the foulest of demons. It feeds off the souls of the living. Somehow... the orcs harnessed that power."
Done, literally one line of dialogue is all we needed.
I'm not trashing on the movie by any means, I loved it as a fan of the series. I'm just explaining how I think a lot of viewers could look at the movie without pre-existing knowledge.
I just feel like they did a bad job with the Madhiv stuff. Either do it better or just do it without him. It probably would have been a better cohesive movie without the unnecessary convolution of having a bigger bad guy. I understand that's how the story works but that doesn't mean it translates well to a movie without already having that knowledge.
The way the information was given about the Fel was scattered throughout the film. For instance, a big plot point early on is the, um, novice magic user needing to find the Guardian to explain something. And the Guardian gives about one sentence of explanation that didn't seem to really explain anything. Having to stitch together something like the Fel was frustrating. When they said Fel magic, I thought it was a type of magic used by creatures called the Fel, which the bad guy was using. It didn't come into focus until late in the film.
As a newcomer to Warcraft I could tell when they were namedropping things that would resonate with those familiar with the lore, but I felt like I was grabbing for scraps to stitch together the important bits.
They called Gul'dan a demon a few times. Like when Orgrim asked the other orcs after the mak'gora vs. Durotan, "Would you follow this demon?" And then the orcs started walking away and Gul'dan zapped them with green beams.
It was hinted at in a couple points. So I don't think just having the one line Pendas suggested would help it any.
Saw it with my brother last night and we liked it a lot. First bit of the movie felt rushed and there were scenes that just ended/cut briefly but Im sure that was due to time. My brother and I are huge Warcraft fans and love the lore, so it was cool to see this movie come to life.
If you arent a Warcraft fan, I can see why people didnt like this movie/reviews werent that great. Still worth a watch though!
The way the information was given about the Fel was scattered throughout the film. For instance, a big plot point early on is the, um, novice magic user needing to find the Guardian to explain something. And the Guardian gives about one sentence of explanation that didn't seem to really explain anything. Having to stitch together something like the Fel was frustrating. When they said Fel magic, I thought it was a type of magic used by creatures called the Fel, which the bad guy was using. It didn't come into focus until late in the film.
As a newcomer to Warcraft I could tell when they were namedropping things that would resonate with those familiar with the lore, but I felt like I was grabbing for scraps to stitch together the important bits.
Just to clarify, I don't think they handled fel magic properly. But I don't know how they could have with the way the film currently is. They have to introduce demons (Kil'jaeden and Sargeras specifically) to do it properly I think.
My response to Pendas was just to say that I don't think adding an additional one liner about it would have helped it at all because there were already multiple lines about it.
They called Gul'dan a demon a few times. Like when Orgrim asked the other orcs after the mak'gora vs. Durotan, "Would you follow this demon?" And then the orcs started walking away and Gul'dan zapped them with green beams.
It was hinted at in a couple points. So I don't think just having the one line Pendas suggested would help it any.
That one line, as he had formulated it, would have helped me a great deal, particularly early in the film when the humans are learning about what they are dealing with. As they learn about it, info should have been formulated so it was understandable to us as well. The scene you mention is in the 3rd act, which is too far along in the story to be doling out that kind of info; it meant I felt lost for much of the film.
Just to clarify, I don't think they handled fel magic properly. But I don't know how they could have with the way the film currently is. They have to introduce demons (Kil'jaeden and Sargeras specifically) to do it properly I think.
My response to Pendas was just to say that I don't think adding an additional one liner about it would have helped it at all because there were already multiple lines about it.
Right, I just think it was too scattered through the film. A good, clear statement would have been useful to me; instead I didn't really get what Fel was until late in the 3rd act. I spent much of the film wondering who the Fel were.
I don't really have much to stand on since I don't have the newcomer perspective.
I think they were trying to make fel magic be mysterious for a while. It shouldn't exist on Azeroth so no one would really know about it outside of a select few.
Anyway, I feel like I'm defending the movie and I don't want to do that. I don't think it was very good, though I would like to see a sequel.
Saw the film today and enjoyed it. A solid 6.5-7/10
Surprisingly enjoyed Lothar's character (trailers did him no favors), but especially loved Durotan
legit saddened when he died
. I thought Jones acquitted himself with the action quite nicely. Loved the sense of weight to the characters, and TBH, the Na'vi from Avatar have finally been dethroned as best CG-Mocap characters (at least till A2 lol), the Orcs were incredibly well rendered and well performed.
The first ~30 or so minutes definitely seems a hatchet was taken to it pretty heavily though. Felt like at least a good 15-20 minutes might have been hacked off from the beginning, and I can imagine there must have been a lot more footage based around introducing Lothar and the human world in general. The movie jus kinda starts rolling with these characters without any real sense of introduction or getting a feel for where they are at. You kinda have to go with it.
This is to me is kinda like John Carter, definitely a flawed film, but I think the passion from the director came through, and I definitely got what Jones was going for even if the film lacks a decent amount of connective tissue for the story being told.
I really hope we get the extended cut that Jones says he has, because I think the movie can definitely be vastly improved by the additional footage, but as it is I really enjoyed it. It's really a Warcraft movie made by someone who clearly is a fan, and not a cynical take on the IP from some bloke who doesn't give a shit,
Pretty much anything with Orcs is really good stuff. A lot of the human scenes feel shortchanged because a) you can tell they cut out a lot of characterization and b) a couple of shlock tier performances.
Everything you said except take away Tauren and add Ogres. Tauren literally aren't even on that continent. I could take most of the lore changes, but Tauren in the Second War is too much for me.
High Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Ogres, Goblins, and Trolls were actually all big players in the second war, so them not being present would be a big misstep
I saw this movie twice over the weekend and enjoyed it for what it was: cinematic fanfiction. It wasn't great, but it nailed the aesthetics, and that is really most of what I wanted from it.
I just re-watched the SDCC2015 footage, maybe I'm mis-remembering, but it seems they cut out a decent amount of finished footage of Durotan and his clan arriving at the gate right at the beginning of the movie.
A short BBC documentary about the special effects work in Warcraft. Really interesting.
I personally think that Warcraft finally surpassed what was achieved in Avatar almost seven years ago when it comes to motion capture (Hulk and the apes from Planet of the Apes also deserve a shout-out). Really impressive stuff.
Doubling budget is bare bones minimum. It needs to triple or quadruple to be sure of a big budget sequel. I think Warcraft sells on the home video front and it gets green lighted at this point.
I'd imagine a sequel would be cheaper since so many assets and designs are already done. I'm really hoping for a sequel though just to give DJ another chance at it. He did so many things right (and wrong) i think a sequel could be crazy.
Doubling budget is bare bones minimum. It needs to triple or quadruple to be sure of a big budget sequel. I think Warcraft sells on the home video front and it gets green lighted at this point.
