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[Tg89]

"PS5 was off to a slow start cause of COVID so we got an extended period of cross gen". "Cross gen is holding the PS5 back, PS6 will be better" etc. This has been a theme all generation.

You guys realize cross gen isn't going away, right? It's not some novel concept, PC has been doing this for decades and the reality is PS5 and Xbox are about as close to PCs as they'll ever get. The reason you have cross gen isn't because of COVID, it's because these things are similar enough in architecture that it just makes sense to put a scaled down version out when possible.

The only reason it's even somewhat stopping is because the PS4 launched with a pathetically underpowered CPU even for 2013. With PS5 being relatively competent in comparison, and the diminishing returns on tech, I'd be shocked if we see more than a handful of PS6 only games ever.

 

[Emedan]

PC's don't have generations. Problem with cross generational games on dedicated hardware is that it is anchoring the new gen. Granted this is less of an issue now a days with the decrease in return on fidelity.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

With games that take nearly a decade to make now, this is inevitable.

Want big open worlds featuring detailed characters with 3D nostril hair that features ray tracing, get used to cross-gen.

 

[Magic Carpet]

PS5 cross gen with PSSR 1 PS5 PRO and PS6 PSSR with framegen exclusive to the PS6.

 

[Tg89]

PC's don't have generations. Problem with cross generational games on dedicated hardware is that it is anchoring the new gen. Granted this is less of an issue now a days with the decrease in return on fidelity.

Maybe not defined generations, but the concept is still there. Someone using a 10600k + 2060 can play the same games as someone using a 9800x3d + 4090. It's really not any different.

The reasons generations used to matter so much was because consoles had pretty unique architecture. 5-6 year console cycles also used to mean a huge leap in technology, it really doesn't anymore. They're just PCs now.

 

[Sebastian1295]

We'll see ps6 only games and alot of them because of the CPU, RAM, and A.I upscaling benefits that'll offer over the previous generation. Those three things make it easier to develop games because there's less limitations that you have to work around and with A.I rapidly growing it should make devs lives alot easier.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

As the guy above said, PC is not really generation based so it’s not the same. The platform doesn’t have the same issues by default.

That being said, I think a lot of the cross gen games simply come from games being too expensive and taking too long to make so you don’t want to limit the amount of people buying your game.

 

[RoboFu]

people who complain about cross gen are people delusional about the slight differences in current gen consoles vs last gen. It's not going from a snes to PlayStation anymore. These are phone level upgrades now.

 

[Three]

Early in the gen people were gloating that non-crossgen games like Returnal or Ratchet and Clank:Rift apart sold low numbers. Crossgen isn't going away. The more people bitch about it and not get the newer console because of it the more of it you'll see too. unless, and the only way it works, is if consoles get high prices at launch that make them profit drivers (like Nintendo does) in which case they might use it to drive hardware profits without fear of low software sales.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Switch 2 should set a standard here I think.

PS6 I suspect will look different with a new controller design. So at least it will feel like a new console.

 

[Tg89]

Early in the gen people were gloating that non-crossgen games like Returnal or Ratchet and Clank:Rift apart sold low numbers. Crossgen isn't going away. The more people bitch about it and not get the newer console because of it the more of it you'll see too. unless, and the only way it works, is if consoles get high prices at launch that make them profit drivers (like Nintendo does) in which case they might use it to drive hardware profits without fear of low software sales.

Agreed on this. Nintendo has the ability and incentive to not do cross-gen. They have a self sustaining ecosystem where the value of their system is directly tied to their games, and not those of 3rd parties, so they'll continue to sell consoles just fine.

I think they also benefit the most from not doing it - handheld tech has evolved pretty rapidly since Switch 1, unlike console tech. I would be they're in a similar situation when we eventually get a Switch 3, though.

 

[Matt_Fox]

I've been gaming for five decades and cross gen absolutely is a ball and chain for this generation and has held it back from the bright and shiny refresh that next gen used to provide.

Its part of the reason why video gaming is in the doldrums - it relies on innovation leaps and 'the shock of the new' to maintain excitement.

 

[Tg89]

I've been gaming for five decades and cross gen absolutely is a new thing for this generation and has 'held it back' from the bright and shiny refresh that next gen used to provide.

Its part of the reason why video gaming is in the doldrums - it needs 'the shock of the new' to maintain excitement.

It's only a new thing in the console market.

It might give the illusion of holding things back, but it really doesn't in any meaningful way.

Someone playing Cyberpunk at 1080p on low settings on their 2060 isn't holding back the dude playing it at 4k with RT on his 4090.

 

[Kacho]

The ship has sailed on traditional console generations for PlayStation.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah ps5 has been a shitshow and it's gonna be even worse now that sony has so many studios starting working on new projects right now, all these games are gonna be ps6 crossgens instead of proper ps5\ps6 games that utilize 120% of a single hardware like the good ol times.

 

[Three]

I've been gaming for five decades and cross gen absolutely is a ball and chain for this generation and has held it back from the bright and shiny refresh that next gen used to provide.

Its part of the reason why video gaming is in the doldrums - it relies on innovation leaps and 'the shock of the new' to maintain excitement.

In the past you had very different architectures making porting costs that much more prohibitive and time consuming. Now though you don't. Polyphony for example didn’t even port GT6 from PS3 to PS4 despite releasing the game a month after PS4 released. Craziness in today's age of similar architecture.

 

[PurePlatinum]

95% of developers cannot afford to make a game that is only capable of running on PS5.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

PS6 games??

Can we at least get more meaningful ones on the PS5 first? How about some Pro games?

I mean christ almighty. Look at it!

Category:PlayStation 5-only games - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Awful.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Has Sony said he gen has started yet? It doesn't start until ken says so.

 

[R6Rider]

PS6 games??

Can we at least get more meaningful ones on the PS5 first? How about some Pro games?

I mean christ almighty. Look at it!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:playStation_5-only_games

Awful.

That list isn't even close to accurate.

 

[Kings Field]

I just want good fucking games. I don't care if they play on Atari, just make good games.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

That list isn't even close to accurate.

Find me a list, fiend.

I might actually buy some games off it. Disc only though, I bought a pro drive for a reason!

 

[HogIsland]

What I'm taking from the OP is that we should not buy consoles and commit to PC gaming.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This is why Sony looks at MAUs rather than an individual console's install base. The first half of a generation's install base isn't enough for sufficient software sales vs the cost of game development. The only way for Sony to continue to compete with PC and ensure proper 3rd party support and focus is to have a sufficiently large platform.

Handheld gaming is going to be a major factor in growing that platform moving forward. Total MAUs for consoles in this form factor are probably 130M maybe a bit more if Sony is able to wrestle some people from Xbox, but even then you're at most looking at TAM of 150M or so. Sony adds a handheld to that though and you could be looking at closer to 200M.

I can't help but wonder if PSVR2 had been supported on PS4 if it would have had more success as well. It'll be interesting to see if PSVR3 if it happens at all is tethered to the PS6. I think we can only imagine that it'll have PC support from the get go.

Tethering games and even hardware to other hardware simply doesn't make sense moving forward. It only limits your operating income and revenue.

Just look at Sony's peripheral sales increasing as they've grown their PC support. All without having to sell additional consoles at a loss. Every business group should have some level of autonomy to maximize sales.

I've said for a while I don't know why Sony doesn't put out a dual sense mini for people with smaller hands particularly children and a Xbox style controller for Xbox fans who want to move on from that ecosystem. They should also put out first party keyboard and mouse and ensure full KB/M support on console. They also need a more budget friendly headset. The Pulse 3D Audio headsets should have gotten a price drop when the Pulse Elites came out. In fact both lines are probably overpriced by about 25-50 dollars. It looks like they actually discontinued the Pulse 3D headset. Part of all that means that Sony really needs to adopt Bluetooth rather than just wireless, but that means they need to adopt it for their console as well, but they want to block out other headsets... it's a bad strategy.

 

[R6Rider]

Find me a list, fiend.

I might actually buy some games off it. Disc only though, I bought a pro drive for a reason!

This should be more accurate. Doesn't even include PSVR2 titles.

PS5 true exclusives. (Some may come to PC later)

Astro Bot
Astro's Playroom (Free with PS5)
Demon's Souls (Remake)
Destruction AllStars (Free with PS Plus)
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Quantum Error (Announced to come to PC/Xbox)
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (Announced for PC)
Metal Savior Black (Cancelled on PC a decade ago)
Neptunia ReVerse (Remake)
Rise of the Ronin
Shines Over: The Damned
Silent Hill: The Short Message (Free)
Stellar Blade
Sticks Aim Trainer

---

PS5 console exclusives, also on PC

Black Myth: Wukong
Bleak Faith: Forsaken
Blood Hunting
Cypress Inheritance: The Beginning
Deathtrap Dungeon: The Interactive Video Adventure
Etera
Fantavision 202X
Fate Seeker II
Final Fantasy XVI
Forspoken
Fort Solis
Gunhead
Helldivers 2
Honkai: Star Rail (Free)
Hood Story: Kaito Yamazaki
Jack Holmes: Master of Puppets
Lempo
Party Poppers
Radikal Fighters
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Returnal
Rubber Hose Rampage
Silent Hill 2
Son and Bone
The Body Cam project
The Last of Us Part I (Remake)
The Silent Swan
Tribe: Primitive Builder
Until Dawn (Remake)
Until Then
V Rising
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodhunt
Wayfinder (Coming to Xbox)
Zenless Zone Zero (Free)

 

[Dr.Morris79]

This should be more accurate. Doesn't even include PSVR2 titles.

PS5 true exclusives. (Some may come to PC later)

Astro Bot
Astro's Playroom (Free with PS5)
Demon's Souls (Remake)
Destruction AllStars (Free with PS Plus)
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Quantum Error (Announced to come to PC/Xbox)
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (Announced for PC)
Metal Savior Black (Cancelled on PC a decade ago)
Neptunia ReVerse (Remake)
Rise of the Ronin
Shines Over: The Damned
Silent Hill: The Short Message (Free)
Stellar Blade
Sticks Aim Trainer

---

PS5 console exclusives, also on PC

Black Myth: Wukong
Bleak Faith: Forsaken
Blood Hunting
Cypress Inheritance: The Beginning
Deathtrap Dungeon: The Interactive Video Adventure
Etera
Fantavision 202X
Fate Seeker II
Final Fantasy XVI
Forspoken
Fort Solis
Gunhead
Helldivers 2
Honkai: Star Rail (Free)
Hood Story: Kaito Yamazaki
Jack Holmes: Master of Puppets
Lempo
Party Poppers
Radikal Fighters
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Returnal
Rubber Hose Rampage
Silent Hill 2
Son and Bone
The Body Cam project
The Last of Us Part I (Remake)
The Silent Swan
Tribe: Primitive Builder
Until Dawn (Remake)
Until Then
V Rising
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodhunt
Wayfinder (Coming to Xbox)
Zenless Zone Zero (Free)

Superstar. Thank you

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

To answer the poll: it doesn't seem like it.

Ps5 is barely kicking into gear, it's likely Ps6 will have a similar "life" to Ps5. I don't really mind the cross gen that much, personally. I'm not a big graphics guy.

 

[MikeM]

Now that PS5 has an SSD, its entire setup is modern enough to not hold back level design for PS6.
The only real issue with PS5 now is the lack of AI features which Pro and PS6 will utilize.
Cross gen isn’t going anywhere.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Four to six years in for the PS6? Yes. Diminishing returns get worse every gen, so you better believe most devs will want to make games for more people to play their games. At this point, graphics are a harder sell than ever before.

 

[Zacfoldor]

The beauty for me is that every game that has hit PS5 will basically be playable on Switch 2 due to the PS4 versions(if they were ported).

Games like Uncharted 4, Ghost of Tsushima, The Last Of Us Pt 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, God Of War, Arkham Knight, all look amazing on PS4, so you have to ask yourself, what even is the point of upgrading graphics beyond a 4k60 version of PS4's Uncharted 4? There are tons of games with way shittier IQ and graphics that just slap the PS5 label on the box and somehow you think they look better than all PS4 games. They don't. There are a few and an ever increasing number but only a few dozen games that really take full advantage of the PS5.

 

[Trilobit]

It'll basically have at most one exclusive game from each Sony studio. But even that is not certain.

 

[Games of Today]

Now that PS5 Pro games are able to push 1440p-4K and 60fps I think cross gen finally won't be a real problem.

Of course there will be PS6 games that run and look better. But the minimum specs have finally caught up.

 

[hemo memo]

With differing hardware architectures, we received remasters. With similar architectures, we saw cross-gen titles. With the PS6, you'll likely experience a mix of both.

 

[Fbh]

People who didn't like cross gen this gen aren't going to like how things will turn out next gen either.
I expected Ps6 will have even more cross gen titles from Sony and specially third parties. Hell some indie, AA and sports stuff will probably still come to Ps4 even after the Ps6 is out.

Personally I don't have a problem with that. There will still be some exclusives and the rare game that uses the new hardware in cool ways, but I think console will become more like Phones and PC's where new generations are more about offering better performance than a ton of exclusives.

 

[HogIsland]

Superstar. Thank you

couldn't bring himself to concede Stellar Blade is coming to pc.

 

[hemo memo]

People who didn't like cross gen this gen aren't going to like how things will turn out next gen either.
I expected Ps6 will have even more cross gen titles from Sony and specially third parties. Hell some indie, AA and sports stuff will probably still come to Ps4 even after the Ps6 is out.

Personally I don't have a problem with that. There will still be some exclusives and the rare game that uses the new hardware in cool ways, but I think console will become more like Phones and PC's where new generations are more about offering better performance than a ton of exclusives.

If things keep going this way, next gen could be the breaking point. Games are too expensive to make, studios are stretched thin, and we’re seeing more safe, less creative titles. The current model is unsustainable, and it won’t last much longer.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Yes, if Sony is smart and learns the lesson with the PS5.

If they don't have enough exclusive content for the PS6 less people will buy the console at launch.

 

[Sooner]

Fewer than PS5, more than PS7.

 

[Tg89]

Yes, if Sony is smart and learns the lesson with the PS5.

If they don't have enough exclusive content for the PS6 less people will buy the console at launch.

PS5 is selling completely fine though.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

PS5 is selling completely fine though.

They would have sold more by now if they had more PS5 exclusive games sooner.

 

[Three]

Yes, if Sony is smart and learns the lesson with the PS5.

If they don't have enough exclusive content for the PS6 less people will buy the console at launch.

The lesson they learnt is that exclusive content gets lower sales. Returnal and Ratchet and Clank showed them that.

They would have sold more by now if they had more PS5 exclusive games sooner.

How considering the shortages were what slowed sales early on and in fact influenced making some ports to PS4. Now it's been PS5 only releases when stock has normalised.

 

[ReBurn]

Cross-gen isn't going anywhere and will still be just as prevalent with the launch of the next batch of systems. The bottom line is with as much as games cost to make now they have to reach an install base large enough to make money. Some games will be new gen exclusive as a carrot to get people to buy new hardware. However, there will still be a significant number of games that span generations for a few years in order to sell to as many people as possible.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

The lesson they learnt is that exclusive content gets lower sales. Returnal and Ratchet and Clank showed them that.

How considering the shortages were what slowed sales early on and in fact influenced making some ports to PS4. Now it's been PS5 only releases when stock has normalised.

Returnal and Ratchet and Clank sold poorly because they were too expensive at launch at $70 and the install base at the time of their release on PS5 only was still too small.

The main reason the PS4 ports happened was because Sony didn't want to lose out on money from the big PS4 install base. You can't randomly make a PS5 game a PS4 game so we know this was planned out in advance to do cross gen games.

 

[Unknown?]

As the guy above said, PC is not really generation based so it’s not the same. The platform doesn’t have the same issues by default.

That being said, I think a lot of the cross gen games simply come from games being too expensive and taking too long to make so you don’t want to limit the amount of people buying your game.

Unless the game is made like Crysis in 2007 where only top of the line systems could play it barely, the game will be held back like a cross gen console game in some way.

 

[Three]

Returnal and Ratchet and Clank sold poorly because they were too expensive at launch at $70 and the install base at the time of their release on PS5 only was still too small.

Well I guess this would make sense if SIE was more concerned with imaginary numbers for boasting purposes rather than actual financial sales results. How exactly would you make early exclusive games more financially viable while cutting price AND waiting for a bigger install base? These are contradictory to what you actually want from them.

The main reason the PS4 ports happened was because Sony didn't want to lose out on money from the big PS4 install base. You can't randomly make a PS5 game a PS4 game so we know this was planned out in advance to do cross gen games.

Because they wanted the financials to work. They did a last minute PS4 port of GT7 because they saw the shortages meant lower install base than they originally thought and so the financials for the game didn’t work as well anymore. The game may have been aiming for PS4 initially in development but they made it PS5 exclusive and walked back on that.

 

[cireza]

We are reaching a point where more consoles are pointless, we have barely scratched the surface of current gen. The length of a gen MUST get longer, a lot longer, but the industry has an army of people working on hardware and you can't fire them that easily obviously. And as they aren't good at doing anything else, we end up with new consoles that are struggling to justify their own existence.

Basically, the world is telling us to slow down, but we keep running as fast as we can.

 

[squidilix]

Guys, even the Switch 2 gonna have Cross-gen (and remaster)...

Mario Kart 9 also on Switch MMW.

 

[BlackTron]

We are reaching a point where more consoles are pointless, we have barely scratched the surface of current gen. The length of a gen MUST get longer, a lot longer, but the industry has an army of people working on hardware and you can't fire them that easily obviously. And as they aren't good at doing anything else, we end up with new consoles that are struggling to justify their own existence.

Basically, the world is telling us to slow down, but we keep running as fast as we can.

I don't know, they fire people working on software pretty easily.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Well I guess this would make sense if SIE was more concerned with imaginary numbers for boasting purposes rather than actual financial sales results. How exactly would you make early exclusive games more financially viable while cutting price AND waiting for a bigger install base? These are contradictory to what you actually want from them.

This is what has been done for previous console generations, game sells isn't the lion share of the profit. It is the eco system = PSN subscribers and a cut of all games sold on the PSN store that makes Sony the most money. Plus I never said they should cut the price of games, I think they should not have increased the price because most games already have DLC, that is how you get more money from the single player games.

You take a hit with having PS5 exclusive games at launch but as people buy the console you make the money back in the long run by controlling the storefront.

You need exclusive games to get people to quickly buy into the new console or else people will wait it out and continue to play on PS4 which is what happened to the PS5. I think the sells would have been bigger with more AAA PS5 exclusive games sooner.

 

[Landr300]

ps6 wont exist, would be too expensive to have a significant leap in power