-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What's with the cross gen copium??
- Thread starter Tg89
- Start date
EruditeHobo
Member
"Do you think PS6 will have a meaningful amount of exclusive/non-cross gen games?"
Who. Cares.
If you care about this... you shouldn't. It's never mattered less in console gaming than now.
It's going to be hilarious comparing the reaction to Sony's "cross-gen" vs how people respond to Switch 2. When do you think the first Switch 2 "exclusive" game will launch? Does anybody buying a Switch 2 care? No, they do not. No one is even really talking about it, that I can tell. You should ask yourself why.
Exclusives don't really mean shit anymore; ecosystem is the new exclusive.
This is exactly 100% correct.
Who. Cares.
If you care about this... you shouldn't. It's never mattered less in console gaming than now.
It's going to be hilarious comparing the reaction to Sony's "cross-gen" vs how people respond to Switch 2. When do you think the first Switch 2 "exclusive" game will launch? Does anybody buying a Switch 2 care? No, they do not. No one is even really talking about it, that I can tell. You should ask yourself why.
Exclusives don't really mean shit anymore; ecosystem is the new exclusive.
This is exactly 100% correct.
Last edited:
It absolutely was in the past. The problem is that now there are multiple things destroying this business model and threatening it
a) moores law died. Meaning drops in hardware price later in the gen to start turning profits, even without software, died. You need to make more on software sales or other MAU metrics like subs and mtx
b) f2p and Gaas took off and game unit sales declined. You sell hardware at a loss and even then most users spend most of their time playing games they got free, buying DLC that hasn't even necessarily been bought from your store and playing it for 10+ years across gens.
These things have killed generations. They've killed the old model of trying to push generations and selling loss leader products.
Saying they sold too little due to price is the same as saying they should have cut the price to increase unit sales.
See above, that's happening less and less. Taking a loss on the software too (by not selling more on bigger install bases) makes things worse or you either lower budgets of games that are "exclusive". Hence why Returnal was the exclusive and not GoW Ragnarök.
But again more AAA exclusive games would not have helped when you had a hardware shortage and in fact made games that were initially announced exclusive crossgen due to this hardware shortage lowering your installbase below original estimations. When those shortages were over you were in year 3 already and didn't have many crossgen games anyway.
Last edited:
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Here we go again...
PS6 is at least 3 years away
PS6 is at least 3 years away
samuelgregory
Neo Member
I have been mainly a PC gamer since about 2019. But I still got a PS5 near launch for Demon's Souls remake, Rachet and Clank Rift Apart, Last of Us part 2, and because I knew that other Sony exclusives I like would be coming in the future like more Spider-Man and Horizon. But I buy only exclusives on my PS5. All other games are on my PC. But now, Sony has made it pretty clear that basically every exclusive is only a timed exclusive. There are only a couple games that haven't come to PC yet, like Demon's Souls Remake, but just about everything else has come to PC. It takes a minimum of about a year for games to come to PC tho, and sometimes way longer. So now I feel like it'll be a harder decision if the next PlayStation will be worth it for exclusives alone or not. So I'm curious if others also have a PlayStation only for exclusives and if you'll be willing to wait it out next generation for those games to come to PC eventually instead.
Last edited:
Fbh
Member
Yeah I think there are many things will continue affecting the console business and moving it away from the standard model:
- Diminishing returns in visuals + graphics no longer being as big of a selling point. Specially when combined with increased hardware costs
- Development cost that keep getting higher without the games actually selling more units
- Increased development costs that mean many devs will put out a single game on a normal generation
- New games and engines being pretty scaleable to a wide variety of hardware
- Console makers making a lot of momey through services (subscriptions, paid multiplayer, etc)
- The live service model benefiting from the games being available on as many platforms as possible while keeping people engaged with a single title for many years instead of having them chasing sequels
- The newfound popularity of handheld devices that will always have to deal with limited power
- etc
I think Ps6 and most future consoles will be less about exclusive games and more about offering a "premium" experience: Better resolution, better framerates, more ray tracing, higher settings, etc. But there will still be some exclusive games...just fewer of them every gen.
Last edited:
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You don't think Sony has metrics on players like you?
PeteBull
Member
FF7 rebirth coming to pc in 2days so cant really count it as exclusive anymore, stellar blade comiing to pc in 2025 too so again, soon it wont be exclusive, u wont buy ps5/ps5pr0 for it if u know it will come to pc soon...
spidey2 coming to pc too
Actual games(not some tiny demos) that are true ps5 exclusives not announced on pc are so few even tho console is already over 4 years on the market:
Astro Bot
Destruction allstars(its terrible game, gaas, has terrible reviews so technically u count it but its basically concord w/o servers getting offline, thats how bad it is and so few players it has)
MSB is indie shooter with pc release date planned in 3 days, so cant count that either.
RotR- that one can be actually fully counted, proper ex.
SO:TD- not an ex, its on xbox series and even last gen xbox one
AH:TSM is like PT, 70-90min long demo w/o fighting.
SAT is indie, graphics wise even below most ps4 games, and it has "coming soon" on pc steam too...
So tldr, true ps5 exclusives are:
Demons Souls (remake but its such a high quality, and so much improvement over ps3 version that is fucked up tech wise, i will count it)
Rise of the Ronin
Astro Bot
And that is kinda it, we not gonna count demos like astro's playroom or SH demo, nor some indies that look 2gens old that no1 plays, wont count square's concord that no1 plays either.
Now question for myself and ppl who love playstation consoles/games, is ps5/ps5pr0 worth it for 3(!) exclusives, i can only answer myself, it is not, unfortunately, maybe by ps6, that will likely be backwards compatible, amount of exclusives gonna reach 10, so it will be worth it by then hopefully? Thats my pov at least.
Last edited:
Spiral1407
Member
I'm all for cross gen considering how bad some of these current gen only games are in image quality and performance. Game design hasn't really changed since last gen, despite the hardware improvements. So I'd rather the take cross gen guarantee of 1440p60 instead of what we get today.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
^No, its not. They didn't need to increase the price from $60 to $70. You have your mind made up on things and that's ok we can agree to disagree.
But the main point is if you compare the PS5 gen so far to the other PlayStation gens people would say it isn't has good and I believe one of the reasons was because of the cross gen games. Outside of faster load times we didn't get the same AAA output and generation defining games like we did for PS4.
My whole point is PS5 just feels like PS 4.5 instead of a whole new console gen.
Then can you explain what you mean? "They didn't need to increase from 60 to 70" is like saying "they should have sold it at 60 instead of 70" . i.e decreased the price for unit sales. What would have this accomplished other than increased unit sales at the expense of revenue? How would it have helped the financials of going exclusive to a smaller install base?
Last edited:
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I found the solution to play Astro Bot was to borrow a friends PS5.
I was able to play a game I don't think will come to PC.
I don't own the game but I got Trophies!
Nintendo will probably have a lot more exclusives tbh. Mobile tech has advanced a lot in the years since the Switch for there to be meaningful upgrades.
Nintendo is also a lot more self sustaining than Sony in the sense that they can sell hardware based entirely on the strength of their own software. Sony relies far more on 3rd parties.
I'd be shocked if we see anything flagship from Nintendo (Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda) that is cross platform. The only exception is MP4 which they've already promised on the Switch.
lughnasadh123
Member
There's no way Nintendo is going to ignore their massive Sw1 install base so they'll do exactly what people complaining about Playstation did.
EruditeHobo
Member
Nintendo is stuck more on exclusives... they operate in a different way than Sony, obviously, to the point where I'm not even sure how directly they are competing with one another.
But saying "they'll have more exclusives" doesn't answer my question... when will the first Switch 2 exclusive launch?
This already applies to everything you've mentioned -- MK8, BOTW, 3D World were all released on multiple systems/generations, no? How is that not "cross-platform"?
So I don't know what you're talking about... this has clearly happened before and I guarantee you will happen again on Switch 2.
Last edited:
MK9 will be a day one exclusive on Switch 2. No doubt about it.
MK8, BOTW, 3D World, there's lots of reasons we got these as ports. Primarily that the Wii U was a failure, Switch wasn't much of a bump in specs, to jumpstart software on a new system where they didn't have normal lead time as they had to pivot from the Switch. They've had plenty of time to develop games this time around and they want to move a ton of units this year, they have little incentive to have anything be cross platform.
Last edited:
Jaguar Victory
Member
This is why the new XBOX is super intriguing if it genuinely is an XBOX + PC in one with PC Storefronts. Iterative hardware would make more sense this way also. Any new XBOX would be at minimum spec a new XBOX and then as much power as you want at different price points.
No doubt? I'm not even sure that is MK9 and not an update to MK8. I have no idea at this point.
No doubt because it makes no business sense to do. Not because I've spent days analyzing 10 seconds of not even direct, compressed footage and concluded that it's the same game.
Last edited:
Calverz
Member
Honestly anyone who said that needs their head checked. Jimbo did a complete 180 on the whole generations thing. Covid was probably used as an excuse for it but we all know it’s money.
cireza
Member
These people need to have other things to do because we don't need any mid-gen refresh.
What we need are ambitious games that tap into the power of the current consoles, for real. Except they aren't exactly coming. All games that could run on PS4 have no reason to not be on it.
There are barely any game that justify PS5 and Series, not even talking about PS5 Pro lol.
Step up your game, developers, or admit that current gen is useless. The only real progress we made is the SSD, that's it. And it wasn't even a novelty, we simply got back something that was lost.
In which case, manufacturers should stop releasing hardware like, at all, until we reach some real limits and can make a meaningful step forward. In the meantime, everything will only be pointless iterations.
Last edited:
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Delusional gamers who believe every piece of corporate drivel these old fucks feed them. Same group who believed Phil SpendSir when he said only 4 games would be ported. 
EruditeHobo
Member
The incentive is incredibly obvious... there are 100 million Switches out there right now ready to buy an MK9 update/upgrade. And there will be millions and millions of them that don't jump on a 350-400 dollar Switch 2 right away, but are happy to buy a game for 60 bucks. Twilight Princess was cross platform too, right? So the "big titles" do get the 2-system treatment, don't they. So... what you said is not true.
Of course there are "reasons" why it happens. I'm sure WiiU being a joke is a big part of those decisions... but those reasons are in service of my point, since it seems to me there remain plenty of reasons Switch 2 "exclusives" won't exist near launch and maybe not for a long time.
Check back in April, I guess? We'll see. I could be wrong. I'm not, but I could be.
Last edited:
The incentive is very obvious... there are 100 million Switches out there right now ready for a MK9 update/upgrade.
There's no reason for MK9 to be exclusive at all. It certainly doesn't look exclusive, does it? That's by far the biggest clue we've got right now. So see you back in April when I'm right.
Lol, right. Doesn't look exclusive based on 5 seconds of compressed footage with absolutely no mention of what the game actually is.
It's probably the most reliable IP any of the manufacturers have in terms of selling hardware, they're going to use it to do so.
EruditeHobo
Member
Again... we'll see!
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I think as console prices rise, more people will hold on to previous gen consoles longer.
Thus longer cross-gen releases.
Thus longer cross-gen releases.
EruditeHobo
Member
It's incredibly obvious that this is the new normal.
Last edited:
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Look at how profits took a nose dive at the beginning of every generation until this covid extended cross-gen one. Long cross-gen is here to stay.
PS5 heading down I see.
FingerBang
Member
I doubt there will be any good reasons not to release cross-gen games. The PS5 hardware will not be obsolete in 3 years. Looking at how things have slowed down, I doubt the jump in performance will be that big. And even assuming something like Path Tracing becomes mainstream, let's say, this year, it will be long before developers stop targeting older hardware.
Even if the PS6 was as fast as a 4090 (and it won't), the PS5 will still be a perfectly viable entry-level machine.
Even if the PS6 was as fast as a 4090 (and it won't), the PS5 will still be a perfectly viable entry-level machine.
You wish. PS5 FY24 was amazing already 12% higher than FY23. Both in sales and operating income it's doing better than before.PS5 heading down I see.
Last edited:
Killjoy-NL
Member
Ehhh people never can define 'next-gen gameplay' and such anyway.
gooner4life_uk
Member
we wont.
Bernardougf
Member
Im sure a lot of playstation players are considering or will consider going PC only next gen .. Im one of them.. my Ps5 is basically a multiplat machine now .. and with consoles getting expensive is becoming increasingly hard to justify not moving to PC if you have the budget for it. It just offers more options like emulators and mods. If Sony kept their games console exclusive that would be a much harder decision.
One thing is for sure.. If I decide to stay on Playstation I will buy the Pro and skip the Ps6 until the Pro comes out. And will remain in this strategy.
Last edited:
Bojji
Member
Q4 2027 launch so less than 3.
samuelgregory
Neo Member
LavitzSlambert
Member
I actually think we will see more PS6 exclusives next gen, because of the paradigm shift toward ray/path tracing and stacked cache memory making their debut. It will begin with first party and we’ll see a larger shift later in the generation once the major engines have been updated and devs have had some time to work. Games that are built on this tech won’t have an easy time running on prev gen hardware.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
There will be no paradigm shift. The gains are simply not meaningful enough to justify abandoning established methodologies.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Weren't a lot of early Switch games ports from the WiiU?
LavitzSlambert
Member
Maybe true when talking raw performance, but that’s not true in terms of development effort and costs. Companies are going to move to ray/path traced solutions and new games will depend on these - there will be a point where we see full transition away from raster for new games.
Poplin
Member
except everything now is also coming to PC, so the tech is built to scale anyway. the era of single platform development is over
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The issue is "dependence". What RT offers, while better, isn't revolutionary in terms of application. So my argument is that it until it allows things that were previously impossible in a broad "product" sense, the reality of business will be to pick strategies that can be applied the most broadly.
You can fake everything offered by RT using older techniques, so there isn't that much of an impetus to phase out legacy methods in the short to mid-term.
What we have right now is sufficiently capable of making great looking titles. I actually wonder how large the market is for better outside of enthusiast circles.
lughnasadh123
Member
Possible, I thought more of them came a bit later than launch. Still smart considering just how small the WiiU install base which is going to be the inversion of Switch into Switch 2.
Shaki12345
Member
PlayStation is dying a slow and painful death and Microsoft, Steam and Nintendo are there to shovel in the dirt.