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Why gamers complain about their games being taken away |OT| Censorship Controversy Central

Thiagosc777

Member
There are some indication that One Piece World Seeker ps4 version will be altered to comply with Sony Policy
e0c665a07b23adfbaee3790aa9272e84.jpg

tumblr_pk5g0n9P631y32xd4o1_1280.jpg


Source : toward the end of video

Will the X1 version be the same? Developers could take a shit on Sony by making the X1 version without censorship. But again, the X1 version is probably a just quick port of the PS4 version.
 
What the? If this is what games on the PS4 are going to look like then I'm done. I've mulled over buying a few PS4 games recently but decided to hold off and see if this censorship stuff would change but it appears not. If it looks like this in the shipped game I'm not buying any PlayStation products again. I already cancelled all my PS4 orders and even cancelled my PS+ but it doesn't run out until September. I guess Sony has until September to change my mind, ha ha~

I don't know much about One Piece but is it safe to assume this would be a "Teen" rated game? This really looks like an attempt to force any kind of fan service out of games. If Teen games have to be censored like this Sony has hit a new low.
Don’t expect Sony to change, if at all until next gen comes around. In the meantime, the best we can do is not give Sony our money and encourage others to spend theirs on other platforms.
 
There are some indication that One Piece World Seeker ps4 version will be altered to comply with Sony Policy
e0c665a07b23adfbaee3790aa9272e84.jpg

tumblr_pk5g0n9P631y32xd4o1_1280.jpg


Source : toward the end of video

I'm willing to give all the companies involved a wait-and-see on this one. Even with Sony's new content oversight, we've already observed more gratuitous displays of flesh in both released products and trailers for the upcoming DoA:Xtreme3 Scarlet. The related screencap is from a hot springs mission being offered as part of an early-purchase bonus (at least in Japan); Bandai Namco may just be legitimately teasing the content.

I mean, the original promotional image from this past November was already somewhat more explicit.

l_5bf227c7591da.jpg


Situations like this, and the concerns over Yuusha Neptunia, are the unfortunate byproduct of Sony's silence and the lack of coverage from larger media outlets. Consumers have no indication of whether Sony forced alterations or a product was proactively changed to avoid issues, which will do nothing but add to an increasing paranoia surrounding suggestive content. The only winners in this situation are those who see it all as some moral victory, even though most never had any intention of engaging with these games (or in some cases any video games).
 
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Isa

Member
Man seeing that Neptunia game being hit kinda bummed me out. I'll now wait and see if the Switch version is not affected. Man they could make a whole new arc about Noire going all evil haha, it could be a cool story seeing the others try to reason with her. Man I have every game save for PP and just finished my Vita collection, I never thought I'd see the day as the series seemed so tame, but apparently the lewd cg's were just too much. Man I hope the Switch version makes it out unscathed...

And the One Piece game also scares me... dude this current censorship phase actually worries me far more than previous eras. My girl and I love to play titillating games together and having that taken away is disheartening.
 
It's hilarious the child friendly One Piece is getting that treatment by Sony. That screencap looks like they will soon die by carbon dioxide intoxication. So Sony's solution now is to avoid godrays but everything else is fair game?

What's even more hilarious is that countries like the middle east who typically are averse to exposed skin sell those games uncensored without problems and yield enough sales that Bamco localized one of the One Piece games to Arabic. Between this and Lemmings and more Sony properties being announced on mobile rather than PS4, the writing is on the wall that they gave up on Japan.

In related news, there are news about Agony, a game that suffice to say went through a lot, including publisher censorship, storefront censorship, rating board censorship, youtube censorship, all at once, before finally managing a compromised release then after much trouble, and then finally an uncut version.
It seems it did well enough to warrant a spinoff / sequel, Agony Succubus. The other forum is not happy with the game's existence and its content, and are working on trying to sabotage the release as usual.
 
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CatCouch

Member
It's hilarious the child friendly One Piece is getting that treatment by Sony. That screencap looks like they will soon die by carbon dioxide intoxication. So Sony's solution now is to avoid godrays but everything else is fair game?

What's even more hilarious is that countries like the middle east who typically are averse to exposed skin sell those games uncensored without problems and yield enough sales that Bamco localized one of the One Piece games to Arabic. Between this and Lemmings and more Sony properties being announced on mobile rather than PS4, the writing is on the wall that they gave up on Japan.

In related news, there are news about Agony, a game that suffice to say went through a lot, including publisher censorship, storefront censorship, rating board censorship, youtube censorship, all at once, before finally managing a compromised release then after much trouble, and then finally an uncut version.
It seems it did well enough to warrant a spinoff / sequel, Agony Succubus. The other forum is not happy with the game's existence and its content, and are working on trying to sabotage the release as usual.
I really liked Agony, I may even play it again on the Xbox One because I can (and maybe uncensored on PC when I get my PC gaming ready). I'm looking forward to Succubus!

The other forum is a frustrating place to read, I won't go there for more than a few minutes or so and only if there is a specific reason to. Life is too short to spend time fighting over things I'll never buy or care about, let alone listen to others complain about things I do buy.

I wonder if the inconsistent policy with Japanese games is an intimidation tactic just to nudge Japanese game devs off the PlayStation platform? It seems just about every game with anime style art and sexy designs is censored in some way, like it's just being done to make the Sony version inferior so they can hurt sales pushing devs and publishers to voluntarily leave. It makes no sense to us but there must be some plan on Sony's end.
 

Pantz

Member
We have a few games with different versions on Switch/PC. Will be curious to see if any Xbox One versions of games will come uncensored.
 
More manufactured controversies to request further censorship of videogames.
Resetera is asking for Smash Bros Ultimate to be censored beyond the initial Game & Watch censorship, this time over "spirits" associated with various characters (Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and the villager using a literal troll image since his skin can be customized) and ineffective chat filters. The "evidence" is very circumstantial and picked and chosen out of the black representation in the game.
Lots of implying Sakurai is a racist and should be fired (using examples from Kirby Super Stars) and using datamining findings of the file modification dates so that the "guilty" party can be pinpointed. Implication that the lack of any content cuts for these spirits is the "localization team not doing its job".

The origin is resetera.
Some websites like GoNintendo already signal boosted this controversy hoping for it to gain steam:
https://gonintendo.com/stories/3254...imate-players-are-pointing-out-what-they-beli

These are gamefaqs thread mocking this controversy:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77330827
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77330797

Documenting this here just in case it really gets censored, just like the very similar Game & Watch. It's very important after all to know who is pushing for this kind of changes.

Resetera in its current state is a gathering of the worst of old!neogaf's witch hunt mobs (who at some points openly shared mostly nude private pics of Treehouse localizers in the open here, or private social media accounts handy for hate mail whenever the company does anything they don't approve of, and that's the one company that's usually in their good graces and with members there. They learned to take their stalking business to private channels), various gaming companies and their PR teams, Sony San Mateo's people, DICE developers occasionally complaining about the fanbase and the lack of success of their endeavors there, game journalists trying their best to tank those games metacritic scores or spread negative press and delight in harming their "enemies" (at one time openly doxxing an old abandonware preservation guy for including a DOS porn game in his preservation efforts and writing articles how he's a weird crazy person, and how he's intending to rob the library of congress) and political activists literally advocating for civil war and political violence against established parties and not just in self defense.

In its short lifespan, resetera was involved in a number of successful controversies like that, and their demands go much further than offensive content but even content that doesn't further a very specific political ideology and instill specific morals in impressionable minds or the game release itself is a political act. However it fancies itself as a gaming enthusiast forum.
As they say though, light is the best disinfectant. Any forums and gaming websites that signal boost and start those controversies should be rightfully called out so that users know where much of this is coming from, and game developers careful to engage during PR with people clearly interviewing them with ill-will.
 
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Some rumors that Blizzard is planning to rescind software purchases from users without refunds over off-site chat on websites like twitch and youtube deemed "toxic" or "problematic". Some game journalists are really happy about the practice and shilling it already before formal announcement. The practice wouldn't only be anti-consumer and a very vague metric to give corporations more power, but outright illegal in many countries.
What was confirmed before is that Blizzard made steps and announced intentions towards that and mandating real names and social media accounts integration with Battle.net accounts, but decided against that after an initial backlash, which didn't deter them, or so it seems.

It's worth mentioning that whenever corporations could get away with it legally, they nuked accounts of reviewers breaching NDA conditions on what to say, what to show, and how positive it is. Users of Steam forums must have encountered before cases of hostile developers of buggy games that ban them from forums or flag their reviews as abusive, offensive content. I think it's clear that deploying it on a mass scale has only predictable results.

In related news, a certain infamous forum is trying to drum up support for their second censorship drive just this week, this time the rumored Persona 5 port that must according to them cut scenes they deem homophobic, and rewrite large swathes of "problematic" content as part of a "new localization", to better "call out" main party members and tone down "offensive" aspects of the story. Even the FemMC feature demands you'd think are benign enough also request any events that aren't gender neutral to be removed from the male route (a point a fake controversy about Far Cry 5 revolved around, as supposedly the writing for the scene was more suited for a male character than a female character, and that was a no-no).
I didn't see this signal boosted yet elsewhere, except for a Nintendo World Report review for Persona Q2 of all things that snuck that in and requested removing "fat shaming" "offensive" content.
 
I'm constantly amazed that, after years of begging for games to receive completely accurate translations, we've reached a point, where certain segments of the audience want Western releases self-censored by way of localization.

Somehow, this has become a reality for Western video game players.

xu3vgRA.jpg
 

CatCouch

Member
I'm constantly amazed that, after years of begging for games to receive completely accurate translations, we've reached a point, where certain segments of the audience want Western releases self-censored by way of localization.

Somehow, this has become a reality for Western video game players.

xu3vgRA.jpg
This amazes me, too. It used to be trolls that made arguments about censoring content, usually with tons of F-words and such that made them hard to take seriously. More recently the arguments have become much more damaging. Instead of F-word laden short bursts of anger, you get lengthy posts about how much damage something like a Japanese game or some form of art is doing to a platform. Now there's accusations of bigotry or worse to try to force the hand of platform holders to get rid of people or content one doesn't like. Debate is difficult these days. You may get accused of bigotry yourself for not agreeing. I see that often enough as a tactic to silence criticism.

I used to believe platforms (and art sites in particular) would stand up for creators, especially if the content was popular and made money, but now there is a noticeable bowing to pressure to remove content people find uncomfortable. It's depressing. It's been happening in games for quite a while but to see it spread to personal art on sites like Tumblr is shocking. I don't feel anyone has my back as an artist now. I can't imagine how hopeless some game developers must feel knowing that creating a sexy character for an audience they know they have or even just localizing a game faithfully could kill their game.

I feel it will turn around at some point but right now our culture favors destruction over creation. There's a misguided belief that removing content will make the environment safer for everyone when in fact it just hurts creators and encourages harassment. You can really tell the arguments are not coming from creators, lol~
 
There's a misguided belief that removing content will make the environment safer for everyone when in fact it just hurts creators and encourages harassment. You can really tell the arguments are not coming from creators, lol~
As video games have been swept into this culture war raging in the West, too many of those arguing for censorship--whether at the source or in localization--are frauds, who either don't care at all about the medium or a particular title and are merely looking to advance their specific agenda(s), regardless of the impact such changes might have on a title or the enjoyment had by others. Even those who legitimately call for censorship, in the belief it's protecting certain groups of people, tend to stumble down the twisted path of right-think, where only the content and concepts they disapprove of should be excised. In general, we live in a period, where (at least in the West) segments of game enthusiasts have forgotten that not all entertainment should be made for all people.

One can only hope most game developers perceive more harm than good from altering/censoring content in localization. Speaking specifically of ATLUS, given their titles are known for being story heavy, the company would probably do itself no favors, if they were perceived to have returned to allowing the drastic rewriting of games in localization, just now for something like attempts at cultural sensitivity.
 
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The crazies have always been motivated by a desire to change the world for the better, and as such, they have primarily sought out positions of power in which they could make those changes happen. Nothing with real power, mind you. They lack talent, knowledge, and an even temperament. But they’ve sought out positions of influence - leading twitter mobs and taking moderation positions in various communities. Through their selective presentation of people’s actual viewpoints on these matters, they’ve managed to convince people with real power that their extreme positions are dominant - a sentiment reinforced by their use of social punishment (banning, excommunication, harassment, etc) to cause those who disagree to either downplay their opinions or hide them outright for fear of reprisal.

These are the people leading the censorship movement. I don’t think they even give a shit what gets censored, so long as it was censored on their behalf. That was their change they made. They are on the right side of history. That’s some heady wine there.

The correct course of action is to be just as loud in opposition, to make it clear that their opinions don’t represent us. Somehow, they’ve convinced people that anyone who disagrees with them is a dangerous harasser, but I feel like that spell has lost its effectiveness over time. We can take back the game industry. At least from the censors. It’ll be slightly harder to get it back from the shareholders.
 

CatCouch

Member
The crazies have always been motivated by a desire to change the world for the better, and as such, they have primarily sought out positions of power in which they could make those changes happen. Nothing with real power, mind you. They lack talent, knowledge, and an even temperament. But they’ve sought out positions of influence - leading twitter mobs and taking moderation positions in various communities. Through their selective presentation of people’s actual viewpoints on these matters, they’ve managed to convince people with real power that their extreme positions are dominant - a sentiment reinforced by their use of social punishment (banning, excommunication, harassment, etc) to cause those who disagree to either downplay their opinions or hide them outright for fear of reprisal.

These are the people leading the censorship movement. I don’t think they even give a shit what gets censored, so long as it was censored on their behalf. That was their change they made. They are on the right side of history. That’s some heady wine there.

The correct course of action is to be just as loud in opposition, to make it clear that their opinions don’t represent us. Somehow, they’ve convinced people that anyone who disagrees with them is a dangerous harasser, but I feel like that spell has lost its effectiveness over time. We can take back the game industry. At least from the censors. It’ll be slightly harder to get it back from the shareholders.
Unfortunately, I think the threat of banning and excommunicating works. I'm really close to just shutting up and leaving game forums and such to focus on my art. I really need the support I get on Patreon if I'm going to continue being an artist and that's not a very stable place at the moment. Gaming is an exceptionally toxic environment now, thanks to this culture war and I don't want to be tainted by being involved with the toxic elements of it.

I'm for more representation in games and I'm for more acceptance of sexuality. How these things became completely at odds with each other, I don't know. I draw furry art almost exclusively now, which is often used for sexual exploration. I love it! It's important to a lot of people and it's a positive thing with a strong community around it. It's also a target for anti-sjw's, for lack of a better term (Some of the stuff in the comments on a recent Niche Gamer article about a furry game makes me want to completely leave gaming from how sickening it was). Unsurprisingly, it's attacked for having sexual content, too. What a mess.

I'm not sure what to do because the amount of things that can get you into trouble now grows exponentially each year. I get called a SJW and a sexist, it's tiring. I even got into a fight with One Angry Gamer on Twitter because I hate the way games with gay characters are being pitted against anime fan service, like they are incompatible.

I just want it all to stop. I want to play the Japanese games I like and draw for the audience I have without worrying I won't have a career in a year. I try so hard to be nice and talk/respond to people and listen to their concerns. It never matters. I'm always the bad guy because I'm not tearing something down. It hurts.

I don't know how to convey what's a stake here without putting my art career at risk now. More people should look at what happened to Tumblr. In taking down adult art they silenced people and destroyed communities. Censorship is no one's friend. Eventually both sides of this culture war will lose what they have and be left wondering how that happened.

It will turn around eventually but I'm not sure what will do it, maybe when more big name games fail to earn enough for shareholders we'll see insulting audiences and censoring games fall out of fashion. Fallout V76 and BFV look like they under-performed so maybe that's happening already. Anyway, that's my ramble for the day. This stuff affects a lot of people so I think it's important to put our own personal stories out there when possible!
 
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Unfortunately, I think the threat of banning and excommunicating works.
I agree that it was extremely effective for a time, but I think it is less so now. For instance, ResetEra is so completely over the top with this that they've become a walking joke. I'd be more wary of someone who hasn't been banned there. Same with Twitter. The infrastructure to simply go somewhere else isn't there yet, but with the speed that places like Twitter and Tumblr are poisoning their own food supply, it won't be long until either they change or alternatives become viable. I also remember a time before social media (and before the internet), so I have a hard time seeing them as a replacement for community.

I'm for more representation in games and I'm for more acceptance of sexuality. How these things became completely at odds with each other, I don't know.
Representation draws from a desire to erase minority status. Having a larger say in the things that affect you means that you have more control over your own destiny. Unfortunately, representation seems to be based exclusively on things like gender and race, which my generation grew up realizing didn't actually mean anything. It also ignores the fact that niche communities do not have to represent everyone, and that niche communities are almost certainly built on a social hierarchy based on something more fundamental than gender or race. For example, where you fit in the Star Wars social hierarchy is largely based on how knowledgeable you are about Star Wars, so trying to get a more representation of a particular gender is stupid because gender was never a factor in representation.

The anti-sexuality brigade comes from fear and nothing else. People are unhappy with the way the world is, and they are looking for a scapegoat to blame for it. If sexuality is something that they've become unhappy with (like, for example, believing that all men are rapists in disguise), then anything which promotes sexuality becomes a suspected source of this unhappiness. It also comes from a deep seeded belief that nurture is more important than nature, and that by controlling the environment, they can control people - and since they have no power to control people directly, they seek to do it indirectly.

Fundamentally, both these positions come from a profound anxiety. The idea that people don't listen to you unless you know the secret handshake or that there's a secret cabal of racists out there who want you dead. And you know what creates anxiety? Social media and news media. The news media isn't doing its job, and social media is doing its job too effectively.

I just want it all to stop. I want to play the Japanese games I like and draw for the audience I have without worrying I won't have a career in a year. I try so hard to be nice and talk/respond to people and listen to their concerns. It never matters. I'm always the bad guy because I'm not tearing something down. It hurts.
Honestly, I think it helps to be a bit of an asshole. I think one of the main target vectors for censorship is peer pressure - the idea that you are weird or a pervert or a psycho or a woman hater. The entire concept of censorship is built on a sort of Red Scare mentality where normal people are afraid to speak up because they don't want to be lumped in with the communists. I think all moral panics are.

But if you are an asshole, peer pressure doesn't work on you. Even better, they don't even try to use it. I call it the "South Park Defense". Everybody knows that South Park is made by assholes. Therefore, it is worthless to go after it because assholes don't care that you are offended. But, you can go after the Simpsons over things that are WAY less offensive (poor Apu) because The Simpsons isn't made by assholes. Someone will try to assuage people's concerns, make compromise, and give ground. You ever notice how feminists never go after actual porn, but will go after sexy things that aren't porn? Be like South Park and porn, and you become invincible.
 

CatCouch

Member
I agree that it was extremely effective for a time, but I think it is less so now. For instance, ResetEra is so completely over the top with this that they've become a walking joke. I'd be more wary of someone who hasn't been banned there. Same with Twitter. The infrastructure to simply go somewhere else isn't there yet, but with the speed that places like Twitter and Tumblr are poisoning their own food supply, it won't be long until either they change or alternatives become viable. I also remember a time before social media (and before the internet), so I have a hard time seeing them as a replacement for community.


Representation draws from a desire to erase minority status. Having a larger say in the things that affect you means that you have more control over your own destiny. Unfortunately, representation seems to be based exclusively on things like gender and race, which my generation grew up realizing didn't actually mean anything. It also ignores the fact that niche communities do not have to represent everyone, and that niche communities are almost certainly built on a social hierarchy based on something more fundamental than gender or race. For example, where you fit in the Star Wars social hierarchy is largely based on how knowledgeable you are about Star Wars, so trying to get a more representation of a particular gender is stupid because gender was never a factor in representation.

The anti-sexuality brigade comes from fear and nothing else. People are unhappy with the way the world is, and they are looking for a scapegoat to blame for it. If sexuality is something that they've become unhappy with (like, for example, believing that all men are rapists in disguise), then anything which promotes sexuality becomes a suspected source of this unhappiness. It also comes from a deep seeded belief that nurture is more important than nature, and that by controlling the environment, they can control people - and since they have no power to control people directly, they seek to do it indirectly.

Fundamentally, both these positions come from a profound anxiety. The idea that people don't listen to you unless you know the secret handshake or that there's a secret cabal of racists out there who want you dead. And you know what creates anxiety? Social media and news media. The news media isn't doing its job, and social media is doing its job too effectively.


Honestly, I think it helps to be a bit of an asshole. I think one of the main target vectors for censorship is peer pressure - the idea that you are weird or a pervert or a psycho or a woman hater. The entire concept of censorship is built on a sort of Red Scare mentality where normal people are afraid to speak up because they don't want to be lumped in with the communists. I think all moral panics are.

But if you are an asshole, peer pressure doesn't work on you. Even better, they don't even try to use it. I call it the "South Park Defense". Everybody knows that South Park is made by assholes. Therefore, it is worthless to go after it because assholes don't care that you are offended. But, you can go after the Simpsons over things that are WAY less offensive (poor Apu) because The Simpsons isn't made by assholes. Someone will try to assuage people's concerns, make compromise, and give ground. You ever notice how feminists never go after actual porn, but will go after sexy things that aren't porn? Be like South Park and porn, and you become invincible.
I agree there is a point where banning any difference in opinion becomes laughable and it loses it's power. Twitter has been a bit better for me. It's not as negative and has lots of great communities. The censorship is lower. I seriously bet Tumblr will die off, though. They butchered that site. They flagged nearly everything I posted and actually issued me two different rulings on the same picture I had posted on two different blogs. I simultaneously have a painting that's accepted and banned, lol. There's no returning from that level of ineptitude!

From my experiences, some who try to tear down art seem insecure. I've had people who didn't put the time in to learn the skills necessary to paint so they just trashed me and accused me of cheating because I'm a digital artist. "It's just hitting a button and letting the computer do the work". That was annoying but now I see similar arguments but instead of skill it's the content they tear down. Some hate that I succeed with sexual art, mistakenly thinking that selling sex is "cheating" like using a computer is "cheating". Sexuality can't be "real art". Over time that argument shifted more to the "it's sexist" argument you see today. That's not everyone, of course, but it's an observation from all the years I've been an artist.

I fully agree about the news and social media. That's definitely true. I recently started unplugging the internet from my computer while I work so I don't get distracted by the new moral panic of the day. There's one nearly every day.

Being an asshole does not work in my view. I always try to be kind and respond with logic or a light joke. Two times I've responded in a defensive manner. Both times went very wrong. One of those times I told someone to stop attacking people in the comments on my art or I'd block them. They went ballistic and attacked me repeatedly. I blocked them and they created alts and accused me of terrorism. Can't make that up.

The porn thing is difficult to do because porn is banned almost everywhere, try creating adult art, it's far more restricted than you probably think it is. The only reason I can take money for my art is because Patreon doesn't define artwork as porn. Payment processors will immediately shut you down for drawing even one nipple in your art if you're not from a bigger company like a game studio or something. There's an increasing movement to ban even the mildest of suggestive art, from bikini's all the way up to real porn. Even art portfolio sites are getting into trouble now, did you see what happened with ArtStation? It's possible even mildly suggestive art will be banned on more and more sites in the future, not just Tumblr. If that happens I'm screwed as an artist. You can probably bet that will affect games, too.
 

Enygger_Tzu

Banned
Some rumors that Blizzard is planning to rescind software purchases from users without refunds over off-site chat on websites like twitch and youtube deemed "toxic" or "problematic". Some game journalists are really happy about the practice and shilling it already before formal announcement. The practice wouldn't only be anti-consumer and a very vague metric to give corporations more power, but outright illegal in many countries.
What was confirmed before is that Blizzard made steps and announced intentions towards that and mandating real names and social media accounts integration with Battle.net accounts, but decided against that after an initial backlash, which didn't deter them, or so it seems.

That's illegal here in Europe, denying service of an online product you paid for.

But someone NEEDS to take Blizzard to the courts for it, and don't know who has the gal to do it.
 

petran79

Banned
Unfortunately, I think the threat of banning and excommunicating works. I'm really close to just shutting up and leaving game forums and such to focus on my art. I really need the support I get on Patreon if I'm going to continue being an artist and that's not a very stable place at the moment. Gaming is an exceptionally toxic environment now, thanks to this culture war and I don't want to be tainted by being involved with the toxic elements of it.

I'm for more representation in games and I'm for more acceptance of sexuality. How these things became completely at odds with each other, I don't know. I draw furry art almost exclusively now, which is often used for sexual exploration. I love it! It's important to a lot of people and it's a positive thing with a strong community around it. It's also a target for anti-sjw's, for lack of a better term (Some of the stuff in the comments on a recent Niche Gamer article about a furry game makes me want to completely leave gaming from how sickening it was). Unsurprisingly, it's attacked for having sexual content, too. What a mess.

I'm not sure what to do because the amount of things that can get you into trouble now grows exponentially each year. I get called a SJW and a sexist, it's tiring. I even got into a fight with One Angry Gamer on Twitter because I hate the way games with gay characters are being pitted against anime fan service, like they are incompatible.

I just want it all to stop. I want to play the Japanese games I like and draw for the audience I have without worrying I won't have a career in a year. I try so hard to be nice and talk/respond to people and listen to their concerns. It never matters. I'm always the bad guy because I'm not tearing something down. It hurts.

I don't know how to convey what's a stake here without putting my art career at risk now. More people should look at what happened to Tumblr. In taking down adult art they silenced people and destroyed communities. Censorship is no one's friend. Eventually both sides of this culture war will lose what they have and be left wondering how that happened.

It will turn around eventually but I'm not sure what will do it, maybe when more big name games fail to earn enough for shareholders we'll see insulting audiences and censoring games fall out of fashion. Fallout V76 and BFV look like they under-performed so maybe that's happening already. Anyway, that's my ramble for the day. This stuff affects a lot of people so I think it's important to put our own personal stories out there when possible!

Unfortunately there is a stigma around furry art in media since forever, from conventions to comics. As if few bad apples could represent a whole genre. Eg while most comic sites would dedicate articles to popular and not so popular Western and Asian comics, furry art is almost relegatedp to porn and mediocre deviantart fanart in their eyes.
Still the criticisms for Dust an Elysian Tale resonate in my ears.
The saddest thing is for censorship to be based on prejudice
 

Helios

Member
Still the criticisms for Dust an Elysian Tale resonate in my ears.
I remember when it came out and people were dismissing the game for having anthropomorphic animals in it. I was surprised since to me it was just a fun metroidvania game. If the game would be released today my reaction would be different. I definitely wouldn't dismiss it but I would be more skeptical of it. It's unfortunate and I'm not exactly sure what made me change my perception of this, maybe all the bad press the furry fandom keeps getting.
 

CatCouch

Member
Unfortunately there is a stigma around furry art in media since forever, from conventions to comics. As if few bad apples could represent a whole genre. Eg while most comic sites would dedicate articles to popular and not so popular Western and Asian comics, furry art is almost relegatedp to porn and mediocre deviantart fanart in their eyes.
Still the criticisms for Dust an Elysian Tale resonate in my ears.
The saddest thing is for censorship to be based on prejudice
The weird thing about it is that furry art seems to get a free pass from the more censorship happy people who fight about sexy women in games all the time. It certainly seems that furry art has a smaller but much stronger community around it than other art forms like anime. There's a strong lgbt component to furry art that I think helps protect it from the infinite negativity anime, comics and games get, it's not perceived as a "male dominated medium", you know? It's also incorporated into super popular things people don't think much about. Not many look at Pokemon and think "eww, furry".

Vice recently published an article about furry artists who specialize in adult Pokemon art (something I do a lot of!) and were not particularly negative about it, it read like a regular, informative article. Kotaku also wrote an article about the sites that steal adult furry art from Patreon and didn't attack the artists (though I wish they didn't bring attention to art theft sites).

The people who are usually on my side about not censoring Japanese games are the ones who turn on furry art and talk about harming people who are into it. It tends to get lumped in with the "SJW" crowd. Furry art is a bizarro-world thing where the rules flip, lol. Either way, the media (and social media itself) still looks at things in too simplistic of a view and it's damaging so much art these days. No art is a "one size fits all" like many want.
 
Unfortunately, I think the threat of banning and excommunicating works. I'm really close to just shutting up and leaving game forums and such to focus on my art. I really need the support I get on Patreon if I'm going to continue being an artist and that's not a very stable place at the moment. Gaming is an exceptionally toxic environment now, thanks to this culture war and I don't want to be tainted by being involved with the toxic elements of it.
Speaking about Patreon, how hard has the boycott hit your account? Ever since Patreon banned Sargon, a lot of people removed their pledges in protest and Patreon is still unrepentant.
 
One can only hope most game developers perceive more harm than good from altering/censoring content in localization. Speaking specifically of ATLUS, given their titles are known for being story heavy, the company would probably do itself no favors, if they were perceived to have returned to allowing the drastic rewriting of games in localization, just now for something like attempts at cultural sensitivity.
The more heavy localization Atlus USA had manifested itself first through purging all religious themes from Crusader of Centy on Genesis over personal preferences, rewriting most of Thousand Arms in Working Designs style, throwing shades at fans asking for accurate translations by implying they want literal machine translations in Rhapsody on PS1 (a game which didn't have much luck on DS either, where it had massive amounts of extra content on DS that NISA cut so they wouldn't have to translate more than the reused PS1 script, and yet there are NISA defenders nowadays claiming only weebs care about that stuff).

It's no coincidence that (after the disaster that was Tokyo Mirage Sessions that dealt a huge blow to both Atlus and Treehouse's credibility, enough for both to try and distance themselves away from that mess, then The Pokemon Company distanced themselves from Treehouse) with Persona 5, the game that tried a closer more accurate approach to localization, suddenly Japanese dubs, absent for at least a decade from Atlus USA localizations, made a comeback. The original voice dub was often cut because it exposed dissonances between what's written and what's spoken, as some localizers (Comcept with IntiCreate's Gunvolt 1, and ex-Atlus employees and contractors) admitted, and what game journalism advocated for when heavily localized games had that Japanese dub (like Tales of Hearts R, when they suggested the JP voice acting should have been cut, and an English dub recorded instead)

And indeed, in the absence of original audio, localizers can "get away" in their words with much more changes than otherwise. It gets to ridiculous degrees no longer charitably justifiable with style fixes, or matching regulations, or even avoiding "offensive" words. Even basic characterization and plot points get mucked with as the localizer wishes. It's sad when D2 gets a better localization than Drakengard games.

Atlus USA's commitment to multi language localizations, providing content as is, and now dual audio dubs, is a good sign, especially with Catherine (its issues with Sony nonwithstanding since they can't really help that unless they go multiplatform soon, hopefully starting with Persona 5R) but further developments on the matter are to be followed.
 
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Atlus USA's commitment to multi language localizations, providing content as is, and now dual audio dubs, is a good sign, especially with Catherine (its issues with Sony nonwithstanding since they can't really help that unless they go multiplatform soon, hopefully starting with Persona 5R) but further developments on the matter are to be followed.
To be fair to ATLUS, their Western releases since the early 2000s have generally hewed much closer to the original text, and the absence of Japanese audio shouldn't always be held against them during the DVD-era, both due to the intricacies (and cost) of licensing Japanese voice actors and the lack of disc space available when offering English dubs.

While the lack of Japanese audio can certainly provide additional leeway in crafting an English script, realistically, most wouldn't notice inconsistencies, even with the original voices. The larger issue, to me, is in modern times, as society has in many ways become increasingly more liberal, we're realizing that too often many localization professional still abuse their positions by making arbitrary changes merely to conform to their personal beliefs or general tastes (i.e., such-and-such name is dumb, so let's just change it to whatever).

One has to hope ATLUS still believes the core of their Western audience are consumers looking for authenticity in their Japanese-produced products and not so-called progressive individuals, who primarily care about advancing social agendas. Assuming the character Qatherine/Rin is in fact a male, Catherine: Full Body should serves as a good litmus test on where the company's localization efforts currently stand.
 
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CatCouch

Member
Speaking about Patreon, how hard has the boycott hit your account? Ever since Patreon banned Sargon, a lot of people removed their pledges in protest and Patreon is still unrepentant.
I don't think it did much. I'm not sure how much overlap there is with conservative commentary and furry art. I lost about 4 patrons but gained close to the same amount (people come and go so it's hard to have consistent numbers).

I do have pay up front enabled and looking at my Nov/Dec earnings there's only a $3 decrease right now.
 

petran79

Banned
I remember when it came out and people were dismissing the game for having anthropomorphic animals in it. I was surprised since to me it was just a fun metroidvania game. If the game would be released today my reaction would be different. I definitely wouldn't dismiss it but I would be more skeptical of it. It's unfortunate and I'm not exactly sure what made me change my perception of this, maybe all the bad press the furry fandom keeps getting.

Game caught my attention because artist was the character designer and animator of Jazz Jackrabbit 2,one of the most popular Windows action platformers. Though by the time Lori appeared things went out of control with fanart. One reason probably that negativity carried over to Dust.
I was more interested in the movie of Dust than the actual game, but production is currently on hold. It features different characters too.
 
More localization news:

Yakuza localization team talks among other things about "problematic content".

On localizing content that feels out-of-place or problematic in a different region:

Sam Mullen: I would say that's not an uncommon thing that happens and it's one of those really tricky things for us because, if we're too heavy-handed - like, let's say we do choose to do nothing. Our staff is really tuned into that kind of sentiment and all the stuff that goes around it, something we definitely think about a lot and talk about a lot. We look at it, we constantly engage in Japanese content and we understand that the things that different cultures react to is just different and we're very hyper-sensitive about that. We do nothing, though, and it's like walking into a wall and going "Well, people aren't going to like that."


On the other hand, if we're too heavy-handed, we get dinged with this whole censorship kind of thing. There's a certain consistent base that will be like "Hey you should just tell us what the–you know, don't mess with the content." And that's if we're really heavy-handed and aren't sensitive to the actual true localization process, which is what we are trying to keep it to what it originally was, we're trying not to change it too much. But there is a space in-between where we can kind of like "slight touch" and make it so certain things don't pop out quite as hard.


It goes back to, like I was saying on the [PAX West] panel, our intention is to have users react emotionally in the same way that the original creator intended. So if the creator was not intending the user to have some kind of visceral reaction to this content, but if we leave it as-is and they'll have a reaction to it, well then we're kinda not really doing our job. That's the whole thing, find this perfect space in-between where all parties are being addressed. Now, there are some extreme cases where you can't make everyone happy and at the end of the day you have to just say this is where it's going to fall. It's a little bit of hoping that people understand, but that's not really an excuse that can be made, anyway. We do have conversations with our dev teams, we do make cases and we do have open conversations, but sometimes creators have a hard line on something.


Andrew Davis: But often development can be a global collaborative process, like developers in Japan will listen to our feedback and sometimes they will say "We're in the middle of design for this, do you think this will be something that could be appropriate globally?" And sometimes we'll come back with our comments and say "Well, this is how this will be seen in this culture," whether it's American culture or whatever. Like I've had to say, "In Germany, you have to understand this would be very sensitive." So we can go back to the dev teams and sometimes we do have the opportunity to have a dialogue and it's always interesting.


Mullen: I remember recently with [Yakuza] Kiwami this time last year, there's a character, one of the two hostesses you can find of have a relationship with. One of them identifies as a lesbian. I remember having a lot of discussion with Scott [Strichart, Yakuza localization producer] about how to approach that storyline. The way her story results in Japanese, if translated straight, comes off as that like "Well you just never met a real man" kind of feel to it. But I don't think that's the intention they were going for, that's just the way it comes across in English. So I do remember there being this light feeling of needing to change the language, because that's not the point here.


That entire story arc is actually really interesting, because it gives people an interaction with a type of character that isn't represented much elsewhere, but there are definitely some complicated things here. I would say that the Ryu Ga Gotoku [Yakuza] Studio guys are actually currently very hyper-aware of that. Some of the stuff that we haven't announced or confirmed for the west, like the remasters of 3, 4, and 5, in the Asian and Japanese markets, they did make some content adjustments for that. [Yakuza producer] Nagoshi-san himself has spoken about how back in 2009, attitudes to certain things were different back then. They recognize it and are making adjustments to the content for the remasters.


They are listening and it's kind of our job on the localization side to make sure that all the overseas talk that is in our regions and our languages is being communicated. That's part of the localization job, it's not just text.

While unlike other companies they do consider their fanbase's displeasure with content changes from the original, and it's obvious from how they are among the publishers who change content the least, they did mention they bring up problematic content with Japanese producers, and that it was instrumental in not only the remaster of Yakuza 3 (as announced in Japanese news earlier) but even that of Yakuza 4 and 5, having "problematic content" (yet to be specified, although there's a mission in 3 that's speculated to be gone) cut from all versions.

The Yakuza series in less dire straits than others, considering localization that censors "problematic" content (the hostess club, on virtue of its concept being too feminist unfriendly) or too foreign content was directly responsible for a dip in sales for it and its sequel that almost doomed the franchise in the West, and the localization team for the newer titles post 5 (which was done by a different subcontractor) openly speaks up about its many missteps, consistency mistakes, and changing stuff for the sake of it.
 
PQube and Song of Memories

An RPG with a heavy emphasis on visual novel style segments, announced in the West for PC (already out), PS4 and Nintendo Switch.

The company suffered undeniably from Sony's bans, and as such they are trying a more careful approach.
There was a delay for the localization announced initially for late 2018, and they confirmed lately it's because of censorship. However, probably in order not to upset a certain platform holder too much, they said it was motivated by trying to please rating boards.

The changes that were mentioned were changing "School" to "Academy", and omitting character ages. It's a frequent tactic in anime dubbing, but considering Sony there are high chances that won't be the sole change for the PS4 version, assuming it releases at all.

Galaga Revenge, a gacha game, gets a resetera controversy over "ableist language". Gets edited the same day through an update, a record for localization censorship.



The screenshot in question. The offensive word was "retard".


The localization done by Namco Bandai's SEA offices.
Resetera is already complaining those offices released anything in the language of the Queen without first receiving approval from North American offices, which is certainly interesting considering those offices are the only reason why some localizations for fanservice (Summer Lessons VR, and fanservice is used loosely here) and anime games (various license games from Little Witch Academia which was snubbed by Namco's NA offices to Gintama and Super Robot Wars) exist at all, despite being given the veto from NA offices.
 
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kunonabi

Member
Yeah, the yakuza situation is unfortunate but it honestly feels like things are going to be compromised going forward especially with Yakuza 3 turning out to be a shitshow again. It's a shame because I was looking forward to the new protagonist but I'm just not going to support the series anymore if they keep going the way they're going.

I fucking hate how much power resetera has.
 
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Enygger_Tzu

Banned
Yeah, the yakuza situation is unfortunate but it honestly feels like things are going to be compromised going forward especially with Yakuza 3 turning out to be a shitshow again. It's a shame because I was looking forward to the new protagonist but I'm just not going to support the series anymore if they keep going the way they're going.

I fucking hate how much power resetera has.

You mean how much power people are giving to Resetera, we should be hosting a counter-initiative, a counter-stance.
 
I fucking hate how much power resetera has.
They are just a symptom of a larger problem of ideologically motivated new wave of soccer moms even more obsessive than their predecessors. That said, gamers need to make their voices heard to companies to counter the signal boosting game journalists posting there do, otherwise companies get convinced to cancel localizations or do major creative concessions, like Xenoblade X that in the name of character customization, something they think is needed for a game to be acceptable in the Western market, scrapped about 30% of their planned story content (something that game journalists are blatanly demanding now of Western AAA games, like articles about Assassin Creed Odyssey claiming the male hero is unnecessary, inferior, should be scrapped, or lamenting its higher use in player counts).

These controversies are useful to see who signal boosts them.
In one case, there's a certain game localizer here who did just that. The complaints are in a larger context and even directed at games like Danganronpa (and elsewhere, the Silver Case) and their use of "ableist" slurs like "retarded", the overaching goal is to restrict further how to write angry characters until their vocabulary is reduced to grunts, yikes, and ughs... and to "fix" the problem of Asian localization teams and their independence (such as this tweet suggesting there's malice and the company needs to clean house)
 

petran79

Banned
Even anime has a better cultural understanding than video games. Eg watched the movie Cleopatra and there is a scene where a Roman soldier lifts the skirt of an underage girl during Caesars invasion before getting slapped. Funny rape scenes of other women follow. This movie is a classic btw, directed by O.Tezuka, the godfather of anime and manga to some. It is considered the second attempt at full length adult animation. Were this scene in a video game, even as a parody,there would be an uproar

As if all the cultural studies rejects decided to enter video games.
 
To be fair to PQube, the company also made the same statement about the content in Song of Memories, back when they initially announced the game's delay on December 18, 2018. Apparently the Steam version of the game, which wasn't published by them, also removes ages (not sure about swapping "high school" for "academy"); makes me wonder if PQube is just using the same translation, regardless of any potential issues with rating boards.

As for the Yakuza localization team, the amount of lip given to "problematic" content in the GameInformer piece is slightly concerning; it's those grey areas, where too often localization teams decide to become authors of content, that worry me. Personally, it's just something to pay a bit of extra attention, next time I'm playing one of their releases.

And in terms of the Galaga app, the use of "retarded" doesn't offend me, but I'm assuming Bandai already addressed the issue, so hopefully they won't have to endure an ongoing witch hunt.
 
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Senhua

Member
lol, as I expected there are no traditional TV games will be made for Japanese domestic market as an target anymore. It will always developed for western market in mind, so yup expect the more western cultural oriented in Japanese made traditional TV gaming AKA: ugly women, gay, lgbt, feminist and no lolis.
3ca.png
 

MMaRsu

Member
Hey if you find elder scroll female char creation to be attractive, more power to you

Ehh what? Lol this is hilarious. You think Elder Scrolls is indicative of "western women" ?

Nevermind the fact the engine was made in 2000 or something, it can't even render normal looking humans.
 
Nintendo's inconsisancy is certainly interesting, and it looks like NoA tend to have to be "in the mood" so to speak to release obscure games.

The Wii era is interesting in that Europe got the OR games and NoA almost didn't bother until the backlash.

It does seem that the hate comes from people who don't play these games anyway. They shouldn't get involved as it spoils the games for those of us who do.
 
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I remember when it came out and people were dismissing the game for having anthropomorphic animals in it. I was surprised since to me it was just a fun metroidvania game. If the game would be released today my reaction would be different. I definitely wouldn't dismiss it but I would be more skeptical of it. It's unfortunate and I'm not exactly sure what made me change my perception of this, maybe all the bad press the furry fandom keeps getting.

I have never heard of this before but if that is true, then it makes you wonder how Sonic would go down if it were released today rather than back in 1991.

The Furry Community is likely why people would be put off but as far as I am concerned it didn't feature blood (I can't remember exactly but I don't think it did) or sexual content and it felt mostly light hearted (except from that reveal). Hating on the game just because it had anthropomorphic animals in it is silly.

I loved that game and got it randomly as a deal on the 360 XBLA a year after it came out! Great game.

Some of this information is interesting though at how it was done in the 80s, 90s, 00s and now (although now it is getting ridiculous).

Edit: Sorry for the double post!
 
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Ehh what? Lol this is hilarious. You think Elder Scrolls is indicative of "western women" ?
Nevermind the fact the engine was made in 2000 or something, it can't even render normal looking humans.
There's Horizon Zero Dawn's Aloy that was redesigned to be less attractive.
The contrast in face quality is very apparent in games that claim to aim for "realism" compared to heroines from the late eighties or their counterparts in Japanese and European media, even works that go out of their way not to sexualize their heroines.
 

Isa

Member
Thanks to Pot Meet Kettle and others keeping up the good work.

And lol and that drive-by s-post. Yeah, can't let anybody have any fun. Not even adults whom these games are generally made for. Some people want games to be more like cinema, but we can't have any nudity or sex. Figures.
 

MMaRsu

Member
There's Horizon Zero Dawn's Aloy that was redesigned to be less attractive.
The contrast in face quality is very apparent in games that claim to aim for "realism" compared to heroines from the late eighties or their counterparts in Japanese and European media, even works that go out of their way not to sexualize their heroines.


I thought Aloy was pretty sexy in that sun outfit
 
I don't understand this thread.is this about some japanese big titties ?if so good that they censor that.
It now extends to horror and, again, violence in videogames. It's not the first time this happened either, but the key difference here is that game journalism refuses to cover this at best, and defends and causes it at worst. The topic could use some balance because things became so bad recently developers aren't allowed to release games the way they want to in their home country.

The truly novel thing as well is that games and works that aren't kosher by feminist moral standards are now rallied against to get buried and cancelled, see The Last Night and Kingdom Come and Super Seducer (its sin is that pick up artist subculture is an expression of male romantic activity and thus, inherently harmful by feminist standards even if the game in question is a safe for work visual novel that actually punishes anti-feminist choices.) Which is kinda the exact same thing that almost caused games like Persona and Xenogears to have their English releases cancelled, and has indeed in the case of the Black Matrix, Devil Summoner and Front Mission 2's planned NA releases.

There are LOTS of games that can be considered anti-feminist. Just this week, there's a Western indie game that was called out for "transphobia" over lines written by actual trans activists who partnered with the developers to talk about their life experiences. And suspicions of being anti-feminist are now enough for works to be cancelled, as Sony has started indeed doing. It gets to the point certain websites who advocate for the censorship are so used to it they expect it in localizations.

Not exactly just "big titties" that were invented by japan to corrupt the natural order of the world.
 
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odhin

Member
I don't understand this thread.is this about some japanese big titties ?if so good that they censor that.

tenor.gif


Like, seriously, Why? I see more and more people (in the internets ofcourse) say stuff like this but they can never really argument a valid reason. It should happen... just because.

"False representation of women" is just wrong and stupid as an argument, I'm sorry but it is.
"But children can play this games omg" is also just wrong as an argument in this cases.
 
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