Why next gen won't be next gen really

S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
So according to continuous stream of rumours at least two console manufacturers will present their next-gen systems this year. I can't feel any excitement about this because of the following reason:

Next-gen won't bring anything new to the table except graphics (please note that graphics != IQ in this discussion). "But graphics are important!" you would probably say. Not really - they were important unil this gen.

What happened this gen? New tech + motion capture allowed games to look like movies. I know that many of you hate passive storytelling in games but that's not about it. It's about not using your imagination to pretend that this pile of polygons is a badass looking warrior who moves swiftly, like a real human in believable-looking environments because you don't need to (case in point - Batman series, Uncharted series). That was a game changer. I will never forget Pripyat mission in COD4 because it was the first time in my life I saw soldiers in games moving like real people and not like puppets and it was very noticeable.

So we are not quite there - you still can easily note the difference between a movie and a game but the line got blurred and all they can do is to improve it a bit - add more textures, more polygons, make facial animations more realistic but that's it. Gameplay won't change a bit.


I don't see how next gen would allow drastic improvement in AI.
I don't see how next gen would allow improvement in storytelling.
I don't see how next gen would allow doing something completely new like Minecraft for example.


The only improvement I see is:

a)physics
b)graphics and overall quality in open world games - now you will be able to put more animations, textures and other stuff into memory + doing crowds will be much easier.

That is it. I can't see how this could be a reason to buy next-gen system day 1 or even year 1. I can't see how this would drive people to buy these new systems en masse. I think the first two years will be a dead season until Bethesda, Activision and may be some other big studio/publisher put their mega franchises onnew systems but even then I don't see myself rushing to buy a new console because I'm sure won't be done with this gen backlog by that time.

So why are you personally excited about new consoles?
 
stilgar said:
So PS2/GC/DC wasn't Next-Gen?
Click to expand...

Well, I really wonder if the same excitement will occur. Take into account that N64 was blocky as hell and everyone was pleased to look at something better. It's not that the power leap was bigger or something. The visual leap was a giant one.
 
What can the Xbox 360 do what the Xbox can't?

*looks at Skyrim*

Oh. :P

Frankly, I'm looking forward to better performance and image quality.

And Dark Souls II at 1080p/60fps.
 
subversus said:
I don't see how next gen would allow drastic improvement in AI.
I don't see how next gen would allow improvement in storytelling.
I don't see how next gen would allow doing something completely new like Minecraft for example.
Click to expand...
Better AI could be facilitated by faster CPUs and better middleware.

Storytelling has never had much to do with hardware in the first place, and is strictly up to the studios. That said, it's not something I really care about.

Creative games could be encouraged by Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo putting fewer restrictions on their DD services and making it easier for innovative games to be released without limiting them to something like the XBLIG ghetto.
 
i kinda agree ..we have no need for next-gen NOW ( except nintendo that was behind ) & handleds that still need more power..
 
I know that feel bro, although the consoles should generally improve its still going to lag behind PC gaming... Although it is an improvement you can't really even compare the gap between say Playstation 2 and 3 same for 360... I'm just hoping they won't release them bugged as fuck.. I would more call it an upgrade as although there hasn't been a massive leap in technology they can at least bring the consoles more up to date.. just gotta dream of a day that they bring a console so epic you can't even imagine what it will do... thats what I do when i think nex-gen..almost alien-like technology with the power of grey skull powering it..
 
I'm with you subversus, give me advancements in A.I please. There's only so much enjoyment to be had in a game where the visuals are breathtaking but yet the immersion is paperthin given dumb as brick A.I.

Seriously, just imagine how big a difference it would be to play games like MW3/BF3 where the campaign opponents didn't make up the parts of a whack-a-mole machine.
 
I'll PM you when my PS4 cures cancer and can act as a controller-device for my nukes. Then we'll see who's next-gen or not.

edit: serious note, this generation had nothing "next generaty"-about it except for the graphics. I never felt that I was in the future, like when I played the Dreamcast for the first time.
 
Cygnus X-1 said:
Well, I really wonder if the same excitement will occur. Take into account that N64 was blocky as hell and everyone was pleased to look at something better. It's not that the power leap was bigger or something. The visual leap was a giant one.
Click to expand...

Yeah, as already said, diminishing returns are a bitch in this department.

But I fully expect crazy things on the motion control/detection/interaction ground. I think we will be all sort of amazed in the years to come. And I don't even like motion control as it is now (except for wii sports-style games).
 
Bloated big budget movie wannabe videogames are the only games that really benefit from 'next-gen' anyway. What I'm looking forward myself is Nintendo to start using current gen tools so we can play fun games online with visuals of this gen (which are good enough to me). Hopefully the Upad will improve gaming and not make it worse like the Wii controller.
 
Freezie KO said:
Pointer controls should be the new standard, but Nintendo rolled over and submitted to the incessant whining from obstinate "gamers."
Click to expand...

That's a good thing. Wii's controls were atrocious for everything except a select few games.

Hopefully motion controls stay relegated to casual shit too.

ninja edit - atrocious is taking it too far, they were passable. But almost all would've been handled better with analog is what I meant.
 
Coolwhip said:
Bloated big budget movie wannabe videogames are the only games that really benefit from 'next-gen' anyway. What I'm looking forward myself is Nintendo to start using current gen tools so we can play fun games online with visuals of this gen (which are good enough to me). Hopefully the Upad will improve gaming and not make it worse like the Wii controller.
Click to expand...

The tablet is the feather in the WiiU's cap as far as I'm concerned. It's going to be very useful for a variety of games, hopefully it's up to the task.
 
Orayn said:
Storytelling has never had much to do with hardware in the first place, and is strictly up to the studios. That said, it's not something I really care about.
Click to expand...

I don't agree as games are visual medium so lighting, animations and visuals in general can play a big role in how you want to tell a story.
 
Games do not look like movies. They look great, but saying that they look anywhere near as good pixar movies is obviously crazy talk. Not that we're getting that next gen, of course.

Higher resolution, better framerates, better physics, better AI are all the reasons why I'm ready for next gen. This generation pretty well peaked with Uncharted 2 and Gears 2. Let the new systems come out this Christmas, and I'll buy one the following Christmas when the good games actually start coming out.
 
I want to see better hair, facial/eye animation, and realistic lighting.

But what I feel we all need from next gen is:

1080p, 120hz, vsync/tb, AA
SSD in the consoles
Rewind as a standard feature in every single player campaign
 
AI definitely benefits from having better processors. Shogun 2 has a pretty impressive AI considering the complexity of the game and it is pretty processor intensive. Quad-Core is pretty much a requirement and turns can take quite a while longer if you have lower end Quad-core processor vs. new, faster models.

I'm also exited about new pretties. I'ts going to be easier to make larger levels/game worlds and not have them look like shiet.
I also think that 1080p is going to be the target resolution. Not all games are going to make it, but they are going to be closer to 1080 than 720. Also more resources for AA and general IQ(good lighting, artifact free shadows etc.)
 
Better hardware can allow for more advanced everything, not just graphics. I'm not sure why you think that the graphics will get better, but the AI won't when they go hand in hand.

Ever see an animal in the wilderness in a game that looks realistic until it actually moves?

Or how about your AI partner who is normal mapped out the ass, but skates when he moves & has problems making a smooth transition into cover?

Yeah, resolution can get better, Frame rate can finally be steady, fur shading will get better, leather armor will look better, grass will extend and extra 2 or 3 feet & actually be 3D, and water will or will not look like oil dumped in a ridge, but at the same time if you can set up more mocap scripts in the background for ambient AI & perhaps give them real daily tasks ala Majora's Mask and focus more on making your main character look/move awesome while running around in a vast Skyrim like world, that'd be awesome, and would require better hardware to do that.

Some devs can do all of that now, but never all at the same time. Great animation with cool physics in a closed, linear world, devoid of ambient life with a steady frame rate, or cool open world with life but flat textures, poor animation transitions & janky frame rate & sub HD resolution.

And as usual, the PC will just reap full benefits & look better & run at even higher resolutions.
 
People who say we're not going to see a huge gain from a new set of consoles are crazy. We can't even get a game to run native in 720p right now.
Games like Skyrim would garner a HUGE boost in terms of stability and quality from more system RAM and more powerful hardware.

OP, have you played the PC version of any recent console games? There is a noticeable different in quality.
 
I don't by the argument that Gameplay wont change.

It did very much this gen.

One great example is Red Faction Guerrilla, no way that game could have existed before this gen.
 
Don't agree with the OP at all...

Right now the best games, especially on consoles, are shackled by hardware limitations. Devs who deliver compelling experiences do it in spite of these limitations.

This same fucking argument every gen, and every gen we get amazing experiences that wouldn't have been possible without the hardware.

Hardware limitations strangle most of the life out of the art... some devs succeed despite this. Look at the concept art that goes into these games, and how much is lost in translation. It isn't due to lack of creativity. They just don't have the hardware to fully realize their vision. And yet, every gen, we inch closer and closer.
 
Is this the first time that people have been so resistant towards the next generation of consoles? I don't recall people saying that the manufacturers should hold off previously.

It's a bit stupid imo. This is the current generations SEVENTH year. Time to move on, and if you're concerned about pricing this far out, then you have plenty of time to stop whining and start saving.
 
Angry Fork said:
That's a good thing. Wii's controls were atrocious for everything except a select few games.
Click to expand...

Spoken like someone that didn't actually play games on Wii.

FPS controls on Wii demolish dual analog.

Sin and Punishment is a revelation. Mario Galaxy 2 utilizes the pointer in really creative ways concurrent with platforming, particularly the Yoshi controls. It's essentially a mouse-like pointing system on consoles.
 
Just give devs more power. Make the online experience better.

Honestly I think its that art hasn't caught up with the power yet. To make a REALLY awesome looking game. And I mean awesome as in large and realistic graphics, you need a shit ton of money.
 
Freezie KO said:
Spoken like someone that didn't actually play games on Wii.

FPS controls on Wii demolish dual analog.

Sin and Punishment is a revelation. Mario Galaxy 2 utilizes the pointer in really creative ways concurrent with platforming, particularly the Yoshi controls. It's essentially a mouse-like pointing system on consoles.
Click to expand...

Spoken like someone who only plays games on Wii.

kidding, kind of.
 
I believe it is because story driven games (which we can agree are the most popular genre nowadays) don't need much technology besides visual fidelity.

What I would like to see are new experiments with procedural stuff. I'm ready for big procedural cities and deformable terrain in RTS. I want all the physics gizmos of the sand-game in a game that looks like battlefield 3. Just imagine making a tunnel trough a mountain to get to the enemy at 1:1 scale; blowing up a dam and see the water flood a valley in real time, burn a forest, pile sand, melt metal!
 
Can you imagine hitting the home button on your controller and instantly getting the XMB or blades? Can you imagine your trophies menu popping up instantly instead of waiting 5-10 seconds?

An improved user experience needs more powerful hardware at this point.
 
People say this every generation and they're proven wrong every generation. The soldiers in MW4 looked more lifelike than in Call of Duty PS2/Xbox because of far more than just polygon count and the like. It wowed you then and I do think that this generation's visuals are the first where they do look perfectly believable to everybody, but they're still not serviceable for games that want to present a photo-realistic image. These games will benefit tremendously from another generation or two, and games that opt for more stylized visuals will benefit from new technology as well to continue to present new and exciting things that we don't see enough of in games right now.
 
My question is, how are companies going to be able to keep making games for the next gen systems.

We have seen the downfall of so many japanese game makers this gen, as well as last gen. Many big time american game makers aren't making ends meet this gen. What's gonna happen next gen?

Game making for consoles is already being held tight by a handful of companies currently, are we going to have even less companies making next gen titles?
 
we.are.the.armada said:
I want to see better hair, facial/eye animation, and realistic lighting.

But what I feel we all need from next gen is:

1080p, 120hz, vsync/tb, AA
SSD in the consoles
Rewind as a standard feature in every single player campaign
Click to expand...

i like videogames so i definitely don't need that last thing
 
I think it's pretty nearsighted to presume what next gen will be. But I will assume there's a lot more than just graphics. Arguably, the biggest improvement/innovation of this gen has been online. Not just multiplayer as competitive and cooperative, but communities and game distribution. Even on PC, Steam really picked up around the same time as the consoles.
 
Freezie KO said:
Spoken like someone that didn't actually play games on Wii.

FPS controls on Wii demolish dual analog.

Sin and Punishment is a revelation. Mario Galaxy 2 utilizes the pointer in really creative ways concurrent with platforming, particularly the Yoshi controls. It's essentially a mouse-like pointing system on consoles.
Click to expand...

As long as you don't have to turn around quickly, yeah.
 
stilgar said:
So PS2/GC/DC wasn't Next-Gen?
Click to expand...

The difference there is that the N64/PS1 had such simple graphics that it limited gameplay. The next gen got rid of most of those limits and allowed a much different experience.

This gen, graphics aren't really limiting much. Next gen will just be this gen with more of everything and little that actually makes it feel different.
 
Evolved1 said:
Spoken like someone who only plays games on Wii.

kidding, kind of.
Click to expand...

I can do without motion controls, although I think they worked in Red Steel 2 and Wii Sports Resort. But pointer controls single-handedly saved the console FPS genre for me, and I won't let them go without a fight.

kamorra said:
As long as you don't have to turn around quickly, yeah.
Click to expand...

You can adjust your turning speed and the size of your "bounding box" on everything since The Conduit, to my knowledge. If you want to have essentially a one pixel bounding box with the cursor locked in the center of your screen and the fastest turning speed, you can have that. It's about customization.
 
Evolved1 said:
Don't agree with the OP at all...

Right now the best games, especially on consoles, are shackled by hardware limitations. Devs who deliver compelling experiences do it in spite of these limitations.

This same fucking argument every gen, and every gen we get amazing experiences that wouldn't have been possible without the hardware.

Hardware limitations strangle most of the life out of the art... some devs succeed despite this. Look at the concept art that goes into these games, and how much is lost in translation. It isn't due to lack of creativity. They just don't have the hardware to fully realize their vision. And yet, every gen, we inch closer and closer.
Click to expand...

This is true to extent but at the same time games are not just hindered by the hardware limitations.

Games are taking way too long to develop. Next generation will not help this. It will make it worse.

I don't see games taking a huge leap as you may think. The development is just becoming too large and the details too plentiful.

I mean we saw it this generation.

Rage, FFXIII, etc.

These games took years to develop and they weren't anything magical.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom