Why next gen won't be next gen really

I am with you there.

I am personally excited only for seeing if there will be a peripheral which is immersive in the realm of RPGs. If the consoles develop a thinner line with the 4th wall, There is progress as far as I am concerned. FFVIIs tech demo on the PS3 is the last tech demo which will woo me.

I am not gonna fall for another tech demo, trailer, gimmick(My Wii is useless to me), or remake(hardest part). I will simply look for a game which intrigues me. If Kinect reads your lips, that does not make it worth a buy in my opinion, it is the software which drives it to gaming use which will start attracting me.

Necessary requirements for interest:
1. Software!!!
2. Relationship with users and INDIE Developers as a console!!!
3. more RPGs (people are hungry for adventure, since all we got was shallow horde shooters this gen)!!!

Tolerable:
Graphics upgrade.

IRRELEVANT developments:
Remakes, Gimmicks, Tech Demos, stupid trailers (ooh awesome fmv sequence :P)

Ahhh next gen whatever. They should just stop wasting money hiring independent studios making FMVs and just work on making good games. I bet they have been working on "impressive" tech demos since last year just to show off on 2012. Most of that effort goes to waste since most of FMV sequences don't even make it to final product. I think my last paragraph isn't credible *sigh*
 
subversus said:
So we are not quite there - you still can easily note the difference between a movie and a game but the line got blurred and all they can do is to improve it a bit - add more textures, more polygons, make facial animations more realistic but that's it. Gameplay won't change a bit.
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For years I have found statements like that amusing.

Do people really think they're going to reinvent the wheel and suddenly one day games are going to play completely differently than they do today? I've got news for you, Halo 8 is going to play a lot like Halo 3. That's just how it is.

FPS have already been figured out. Dual sticks are the way to go on a game controller. This isn't going to change no matter how powerful the hardware gets.

New games, and new genres of games are the only way you're going to see truly "new" gameplay. New hardware is not needed for such things to come about. Creative people are.



I also reject the notion that graphics "can't get that much better". They can get a lot better. Everything can get better.
 
BruiserBear said:
For years I have found statements like that amusing.

Do people really think they're going to reinvent the wheel and suddenly one day games are going to play completely differently than they do today? I've got news for you, Halo 8 is going to play a lot like Halo 3. That's just how it is.

FPS have already been figured out. Dual sticks are the way to go on a game controller. This isn't going to change no matter how powerful the hardware gets.

New games, and new genres of games are the only way you're going to see truly "new" gameplay. New hardware is not needed for such things to come about. Creative people are.



I also reject the notion that graphics "can't get that much better". They can get a lot better. Everything can get better.
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partially true except that there's room for improvement for fps, and DA only proved how inept they are for fps. I mean if your solution to a problem is auto aim galore you have solved nothing.
 
This thread made me LOL. I'm struggling with all the ways I could answer it. I'll just go with the shortest: If we are arguing if next-gen is next-gen then we've overdosed on buzzwords and need to check back into reality.
 
Ranger X said:
What will definetely happen this gen though is that MONEY will become the new bottleneck for most. It will cost alot more (again, like every gen) to make AAA games and they will be fewer than now. The game's scale will be larger than ever. Basically, your game will look like its budget.
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This is why I feel this gen has been disappointing, and next gen may be even moreso. I think the sweet spot for visual prowess and reasonable budgeting was the PS2 era, then things got out of hand. I think this gen was the first time when increased visual expectations actually adversely affected game design...like in FFXIII.

Luckily handhelds are around to allow smaller budget games to get made without having to compete with huge budget stuff.
 
Freezie KO said:
Spoken like someone that didn't actually play games on Wii.

FPS controls on Wii demolish dual analog.

Sin and Punishment is a revelation. Mario Galaxy 2 utilizes the pointer in really creative ways concurrent with platforming, particularly the Yoshi controls. It's essentially a mouse-like pointing system on consoles.
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Sounds like someone is terrible at console shooters.

I've played the CoD4 port for the wii and holy shit. The day motion controls enter my shooters is the day I stop playing them.
 
Next generation will be next generation. That means new franchises, better graphics, probably along with a bigger market we will get more games and possibly an increase of indie games. A new generation also often comes with different focus on different genres and different focus on different elements. With games having some new strengths and weaknesses. And of course a shitload of great games.

I don't think we should be expecting someone to rediscover the wheel before calling what is obviously next generation as next generation.

I am excited as everyone should be for what new the world of gaming with bring us and for the great games of the future.
 
I think a huge step in the physics segment would result in a true next-gen experience.
Imagine a next gen graphics powerhouse without a powerful physics-engine. It would be nice to look at, but after 20 minutes you lose interest, because the superb designed character/car moves like shit in the environment.
 
Nextgen will bring more than graphics. One thing I think we'll see are action games that have realistic physics in regards to character movement. A game with its systems built with a base that relies heavily on tessellation. GeOW's violence will be taken to another level with tessellation.
 
BruiserBear said:
For years I have found statements like that amusing.

Do people really think they're going to reinvent the wheel and suddenly one day games are going to play completely differently than they do today? I've got news for you, Halo 8 is going to play a lot like Halo 3. That's just how it is.

FPS have already been figured out. Dual sticks are the way to go on a game controller. This isn't going to change no matter how powerful the hardware gets.

New games, and new genres of games are the only way you're going to see truly "new" gameplay. New hardware is not needed for such things to come about. Creative people are.



I also reject the notion that graphics "can't get that much better". They can get a lot better. Everything can get better.
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This. Gamers today crack me up. Do you think we were whining about gameplay not changing when the Super Famicom debuted?
 
People are too bitter. I can't wait to experience Witcher 2, Uncharted 3, Battlefield 3, Crysis 2 (and even better) or even something like Samaritan if possible like graphics more and more. Instead of whining about diminishing returns I am kind of excited for the increase of graphical quality we will get.
 
A27 Tawpgun said:
Sounds like someone is terrible at console shooters.

I've played the CoD4 port for the wii and holy shit. The day motion controls enter my shooters is the day I stop playing them.
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I am terrible at dual analog. I'll readily admit that. Rather than train myself to accept an inferior control method, I simply gave up playing console shooters after trying Halo out on the original XBox.

The control scheme is awful and doesn't offer me the degree of access to any point on the screen that I require (such that a mouse or pointer does).

Now, again, I say allow both. Just remove aim assist. I think you'd be surprised how much you're being "helped" by the game (and also by the horizontal structures that devs readily admit to implementing because of the limitations of aiming vertically with dual analog).
 
subversus said:
So according to continuous stream of rumours at least two console manufacturers will present their next-gen systems this year. I can't feel any excitement about this because of the following reason:

Next-gen won't bring anything new to the table except graphics (please note that graphics != IQ in this discussion). "But graphics are important!" you would probably say. Not really - they were important unil this gen.

What happened this gen? New tech + motion capture allowed games to look like movies. I know that many of you hate passive storytelling in games but that's not about it. It's about not using your imagination to pretend that this pile of polygons is a badass looking warrior who moves swiftly, like a real human in believable-looking environments because you don't need to (case in point - Batman series, Uncharted series). That was a game changer. I will never forget Pripyat mission in COD4 because it was the first time in my life I saw soldiers in games moving like real people and not like puppets and it was very noticeable.

So we are not quite there - you still can easily note the difference between a movie and a game but the line got blurred and all they can do is to improve it a bit - add more textures, more polygons, make facial animations more realistic but that's it. Gameplay won't change a bit.


I don't see how next gen would allow drastic improvement in AI.
I don't see how next gen would allow improvement in storytelling.
I don't see how next gen would allow doing something completely new like Minecraft for example.


The only improvement I see is:

a)physics
b)graphics and overall quality in open world games - now you will be able to put more animations, textures and other stuff into memory + doing crowds will be much easier.

That is it. I can't see how this could be a reason to buy next-gen system day 1 or even year 1. I can't see how this would drive people to buy these new systems en masse. I think the first two years will be a dead season until Bethesda, Activision and may be some other big studio/publisher put their mega franchises onnew systems but even then I don't see myself rushing to buy a new console because I'm sure won't be done with this gen backlog by that time.

So why are you personally excited about new consoles?
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BS!

Change the thread title to "Why next-gen won't be next-gen for ME",
because it will be next-gen for a lot of us.
Bring it!
 
Freezie KO said:
I am terrible at dual analog. I'll readily admit that. Rather than train myself to accept an inferior control method, I simply gave up playing console shooters after trying Halo out on the original XBox.

The control scheme is awful and doesn't offer me the degree of access to any point on the screen that I require (such that a mouse or pointer does).

Now, again, I say allow both. Just remove aim assist. I think you'd be surprised how much you're being "helped" by the game (and also by the horizontal structures that devs readily admit to implementing because of the limitations of aiming vertically with dual analog).
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The fun part of the first Red Steel was the devs actually saying that now they could put foes in multiple plans instead of just on ground level since players could actually aim for shit now :lol
 
Freezie KO said:
Pointer controls should be the new standard, but Nintendo rolled over and submitted to the incessant whining from obstinate "gamers."
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A fucking shame as well. I just hope that Sony keeps pushing for Move support so WiiU games will get IR aiming support as well.

Dual analog aiming is horrendous and needs to die.
(at least as the default aiming option, keep it in there for people who want auto aim to help them overcome an incompetent control system)
 
I know something will eventually make me eat these words, but we will not see the kind of jump in "next gen" going forward as we did with the jump from PSOne/Saturn to PS2/DC/Xbox/GC.

If you ask me, I'd much prefer to see them at least keep some semblance of "fantasy" to visuals in games rather than continuing to go deeper into uncanny valley. I mean is it remarkable when you can almost mistake a game for real-life? Sure. Do I want games with stuff like graphic violence to go that same route? Not so much.
 
Riposte said:
What if we could fast forward through the hard parts too? Would that make you like videogames even more!?
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I don't see how fast-forwarding hard parts would be a bad thing even though it doesn't depend on hardware so it's out of this discussion. My friend asked me to play through some hard parts so he could continue to play the game when we were kids, I don't see how fast- forwarding is different. It would allow not dumbing down the game btw.
 
boris feinbrand said:
A fucking shame as well. I just hope that Sony keeps pushing for Move support so WiiU games will get IR aiming support as well.

Dual analog aiming is horrendous and needs to die.
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Oh god I hate your posts.
 
Of course next gen won't "necessarily" bring better a.i. or storytelling; you can't box those things up. All you can hope for is that the tools allow the developers to evolve in these categories. If they can be more efficient with the new technology instead of squeezing everything out of our current outdated hardware, they can spend more time focusing on the things you mentioned. I also believe storytelling will get better because of better graphics. Bad lip syncing/physics/etc can really take away from immersion in a story.
 
Ra1den said:
This is why I feel this gen has been disappointing, and next gen may be even moreso. I think the sweet spot for visual prowess and reasonable budgeting was the PS2 era, then things got out of hand. I think this gen was the first time when increased visual expectations actually adversely affected game design...like in FFXIII.

Luckily handhelds are around to allow smaller budget games to get made without having to compete with huge budget stuff.
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Well, I'd say it's not starting good for handhelds. I am personally not touching the Vita with a 10 foot pole until I see at least 5 DEDICATED and ORIGINAL games. Right now it's seems to be a home console experience in a smaller screen --- wich I am not interested in at all.
 
Mael said:
The fun part of the first Red Steel was the devs actually saying that now they could put foes in multiple plans instead of just on ground level since players could actually aim for shit now :lol
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Certainly one of the several times it's been mentioned. I like how it's a dirty secret that games are actually being designed around the limitations of dual analog versus mouse control. Forget about pointer or Wiimote. Just the simple change to DA has definitively shifted design decisions, but it's more "hardcore" to pretend that doesn't exist and that you're some badass console shooter.

boris feinbrand said:
A fucking shame as well. I just hope that Sony keeps pushing for Move support so WiiU games will get IR aiming support as well.

Dual analog aiming is horrendous and needs to die.
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If Sony pushes Move and devs don't support the Wiimote on Wii U, I will totally get a PS4 for my FPS needs.

At the very least, I'm hoping that CoD and Activision shooters will get Wiimote support. I mean, they have to, right? They already have it programmed...
 
I expect.....

Better:

Visuals ie - textures, draw distance, solid frame rate.

But that's all. Storytelling and overall writing will still be mediocre and downright pitiful for most titles. Hopefully motion controls will take that next step.
 
zoukka said:
Worst meme ever.
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Really? Are you saying better AI isn't important, or developers don't need additional processing power to make better AI? I mean I'm not a game developer so I have to go by what others say here, for example:

Ubisoft’s executive director of production services at the firm’s Montreal studio, is of the opinion that AI will be the next, big technological step forward with the next generation of home consoles.

According to Yves Jacquier, next-gen consoles won’t be focusing primarily on graphics hardware, thanks to Wii proving that better graphics doesn’t necessarily sell hardware.

“AI has always been the real battleground,” he told GI.biz. “The challenge is that, if you see an AI coming, you’ve failed. And that’s a problem we have to overcome as we create the impression of flawless, seamless worlds.

“In general the industry expects that graphics will not be a strong feature any more… Obviously, graphics are better for marketing purposes because you can show things. AI you can’t show. Our challenge with the PlayStation 3 and Xbox [360] is that we’re extremely limited in what we can do. It’s a challenge for the engineers to provide nice graphics and nice AI and nice sound with a very small amount of memory and computation time.
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http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/06/ubisoft-strength-of-next-gen-systems-will-be-in-ai-not-graphics/
 
I like to call it a "refinement generation". Just like the Super Nintendo, and the PS2, these next consoles will take all the bells and whistles introduced this gen and place them in a shinier, easier to use package.
 
The AI crying makes no sense. With the different types of path finding and behaviors you can program AI could be made unbeatable right now. But what would be the point?
 
Motion-control apologists are the worst thing to happen to this gen. Move being an unequivocal failure gives me hope that Sony will drop this whole charade.
 
If you don't think graphics can get much better, then you don't know much about what PCs are capable of, but little used for because of multi-platform development.

In graphics we have huge advancements in lighting (particularly indirect lighting) on the way. Tessellation promises huge improvements not only in basic detail, but in layers of detail. Then there's physics, which can always be improved on. I want more particles (water and smoke please)! Right now it's only games that need good water or good building damage that have it, but eventually every game will have realistic flowing water and deforming geometry.

Some examples: http://www.nvidia.com/object/cool_stuff.html
 
charsace said:
The AI crying makes no sense. With the different types of path finding and behaviors you can program AI could be made unbeatable right now. But what would be the point?
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Being able to make it unbeatable now doesn't indicate anything in matter of "can we evolve AI further". Better AI doesn't mean "harder". It means an AI could do more things, more different things and "think" better, take more complex decisions and more of those decisions.
 
I've heard the same argument every new gen and it's proven wrong every single time.

Even in the graphics department people say "This looks like real life!" just to add "I can't believe I was wowed by that!" a few years later. Standards change as Ami would say.
 
This discussion is pointless, first of all people say this with every new generation and second unless you are actually a developer and understand the technology and know the limitations we have right now you can't comment on it anyway.
 
Ranger X said:
Being able to make it unbeatable now doesn't indicate anything in matter of "can we evolve AI further". Better AI doesn't mean "harder". It means an AI could do more things, more different things and "think" better, take more complex decisions and more of those decisions.
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Games could have more complex AI. That's what I meant by harder sorry if I'm not clear. The problem is that you would have to put more money into it and in the long run it would make games more difficult.
 
Sorry but lol @ people saying this gen, and next gen, won't bring anything more than just prettier graphics.

I think people are looking at prior gen consoles with rose-tinted glasses to think this.
 
The real battle nextgen will be services. MS, I believe, will begin to do more stuff like Steam. I also think all games will be released day-and-date digitally with their retail counterparts.

Building on the services angle, I believe MS & Sony will be a bit more open with their networks and begin to allow MMO's and 1-button in-game purchases.

I agree with OP, graphics wont mean shit. Both xbox and ps will have amazing graphics. So what will differentiate your console from the others? MS has kinect (built-in, assumedly) and xbox live. psn, in my opinion, has been a copycat of sorts. there hasn't been much sony has done that xbl didn't already have. so i worry about what sony will provide.
 
MuseManMike said:
Motion-control apologists are the worst thing to happen to this gen. Move being an unequivocal failure gives me hope that Sony will drop this whole charade.
Click to expand...

I suspect you don't really get what Move (or motion control in general) is all about. It really is the most flexible control interface you can think of these days, extending the range of possible experiences and improving those already possible. I don't understand the hate.
 
I dunno about shooters (hope they all die out next gen) but console sim racers like Gran Turismo can benefit massively from next gen hardware. The AI and physics of various parts of the car are still so primitive and theres so much that can be added and improved with more powerful CPU.
 
charsace said:
Games could have more complex AI. That's what I meant by harder sorry if I'm not clear. The problem is that you would have to put more money into it and in the long run it would make games more difficult.
Click to expand...

Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Better Ai should mean making it more unpredictable and dynamic. Learning if you will.
 
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