And not to mention headaches for activations/deactivations.
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Why Skype and a TV Tuner Could Be Killer Apps
- Thread starter michaelpachter
- Start date
And not to mention headaches for activations/deactivations.
Sums up what? Modifying predictions based on new information? What's wrong with that?
Neuromancer
Member
Haha
sono
Gold Member
My thoughts;
I dont agree with you.
My reasons:
Video phones are not popular. People usually want visual privacy when they make a phone call.
People dont want people they are talking to on the phone into their living rooms. A living room is a very personal and private retreat.
Netflix and others are competitors on consoles.
People dont associate Microsoft as their TV provider.
Sonys Play TV PS3 accessory didnt sell that well.
I dont agree with you.
My reasons:
Video phones are not popular. People usually want visual privacy when they make a phone call.
People dont want people they are talking to on the phone into their living rooms. A living room is a very personal and private retreat.
Netflix and others are competitors on consoles.
People dont associate Microsoft as their TV provider.
Sonys Play TV PS3 accessory didnt sell that well.
Well I appreciate you coming to explain it, and there is certainly some logical assumptions in there. (TV Tuner wise)
I'm not sure what the market is that overlaps gaming and services like this so I can't speak one way or another really. It will also depend whether MS incorporates something like that.
If it is behind a paywall though, it may not seem worth it.
Sony certainly has a lot of potential with gaikai as a service too, maybe they will move into other domains. It will depend on licencing and such a lot more though.
And of course.. Netflix. If that is available in the basic and maybe free PSN package, it may be a deterrent.
I'm not sure what the market is that overlaps gaming and services like this so I can't speak one way or another really. It will also depend whether MS incorporates something like that.
If it is behind a paywall though, it may not seem worth it.
Sony certainly has a lot of potential with gaikai as a service too, maybe they will move into other domains. It will depend on licencing and such a lot more though.
And of course.. Netflix. If that is available in the basic and maybe free PSN package, it may be a deterrent.
Yeah, Apple have been trying to tackle that exact problem for a long time, and so far have come up with nothing of value to the consumer. If Apple can't tackle a consumer electronics market, MS can't.
Wait why would you need a tv tuner to get live tv streamed over the internet. We can already get that over here in the uk on 360. Skype comes on alot of smart tvs, i would guess the barrier to entry fro granny would be less on just the tv then booting up a games console too no?.
The TV stuff is interesting, but just seems like a novelty to me. Not exactly the same of course, but it's like PlayTV on PS3. It's interesting for a while, but it's just like why watch TV through a console when you can just watch it... on the TV, and get on-demand video through the glut of services that are around?
MS would have to come up with a hell a service to make it a true stand-out service.
MS would have to come up with a hell a service to make it a true stand-out service.
That'll do, Pach, that'll do. I think people pooh-pooh's a tv tuner as a selling point have a lack of imagination, or even observation. Unless you've cut the cord (like me! do it! you won't regret it!), you've probably got a cable box unobtrusively sitting next to your tv, right now. They're already in far more homes than video game consoles. If Microsoft can be the cable box that also lets you play games*, it could be a real game changer.
*Also note what other functionality cable companies are already trying to bring to their boxes - security services, control your home lighting. It's kind of a natural fit, as video game consoles are trying to expand in the living room, and so are the cable boxes, for the two to just meet somewhere in the middle.
*Also note what other functionality cable companies are already trying to bring to their boxes - security services, control your home lighting. It's kind of a natural fit, as video game consoles are trying to expand in the living room, and so are the cable boxes, for the two to just meet somewhere in the middle.
And new TVs come with it (smart TVs).
Using Kinect to help make the Xbox more like a iDevice / Android device to help Windows RT compete is the Killer app but the question is will it put them in the line of fire like the Wii U because the Wii U tablet put it in the line of fire while Tablets & Phone's are on a killing spree.
Example: my brother asked my nephew if he wanted the Wii U for for Christmas & he replied "No! I can't take it with me I want a tablet"
if Kinect can make the Xbox 3 the iPad for the living room it could be big but it could also work against it.
Example: my brother asked my nephew if he wanted the Wii U for for Christmas & he replied "No! I can't take it with me I want a tablet"
if Kinect can make the Xbox 3 the iPad for the living room it could be big but it could also work against it.
The only killer app for me are the games. All these extra services have in the past been very limited to people in the US only so most of them don't work anywhere else and this TV-tuner sounds exactly like such a thing. I know you can get Skype up and running on most devices but I could never see myself using it in front of my TV.
There's living room Skype devices and while they won't see the same push I don't think it matter. If you're claiming it'll make Skype easy for Grandma you'd need to explain why that alone is compelling enough for Grandma to have a $400+ video games system and further why that's much better for Grandma than Wii U or PS4 video chat.
For the second cable is dying. TV habits are changing and both Netflix and Amazon are the new "channels." It doesn't matter how it comes, that's an implementation issue (In fact HTML 5 video encryption just released in Chrome and is being utilized by Netflix for plugin free DRM video on Samsung Chromebooks), all that matters is the content and price. You don't need 20 channels of reruns and many people don't watch sports which is the single largest cost in cable. The most MS can do is provide the same a la carte programming that others do but they're way late to the party.
For the second cable is dying. TV habits are changing and both Netflix and Amazon are the new "channels." It doesn't matter how it comes, that's an implementation issue (In fact HTML 5 video encryption just released in Chrome and is being utilized by Netflix for plugin free DRM video on Samsung Chromebooks), all that matters is the content and price. You don't need 20 channels of reruns and many people don't watch sports which is the single largest cost in cable. The most MS can do is provide the same a la carte programming that others do but they're way late to the party.
Did you read his explanation on why it could be a killer app?
I agree with Pachter on those potential features being part of the Durango's success, but I don't know if those will be the main aspects or reasons why it's successful. If I can get all the channels that are provided to me simply by signing into my profile and going to the cable/ISP app, that would be pretty damn slick.
That would mean as long as I have access to any Durango and my gamertag/profile, I could access my cable subscription anywhere where there's internet.
BrokenSymmetry
Member
I really don't understand the advantage of the Xbox TV tuner. Every recent television has a built-in digital tuner, and (at least in Europe) has a CI module, so that you can plug in a smartcard directly into the television, no additional box needed. What is the new Xbox going to add to this?
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Are you going to contribute to the discussion, or are you just going to keep attacking him for no discernible reason?
Anyways. As has been mentioned before, the price of Live might cause a problem here.
Sir Garbageman
Member
Haint
Member
LOL@IPTV. Never, ever, ever, ever going to happen in America without significant government intervention. Your regional cable monopoly will simply hike Internet ONLY prices to whatever you're currently paying for your 2 or 3 service bundle. Then you will also have the $80+ IPTV service fee on top of that from whatever third party provider. Why would TWC let $80-$120 revenue/mo go to Comcast? So they save a fraction of that loss on trouble calls and set tops? LOLNO. Even if you wanted to argue some utopian case where all the majors compete and undercut each other with boundry-free IPTV services, what about all the smaller and regional providers (who combined account for almost half, or more, of total subscribership) but individually couldn't dream of competing with their own IPTV services. They would never let that revenue leave their system.
Ken Masters
Banned
Skype from a tv is not something people have been asking for or likely ever will
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Strong post.
I "get" the Skype thing but I'm not necessarily sold on Skype being a system seller. Crazier things have happened I suppose. My daughter "face times" with her grandma weekly on the iPad and in theory, a new xbox is cheaper in theory than an iPad.
Still...if it's stuck behind a Xbox Live Gold subscription. You're going to lose some if not most of what's exciting about that.
As for T.V.
America is the wild fuckin west when it comes to deals with cable providers. Here in Canada, shit is locked down tight and cable companies are primarily the internet companies. They don't give a shit about what Microsoft has planned and they LOVE their bandwidth caps.
I "get" the Skype thing but I'm not necessarily sold on Skype being a system seller. Crazier things have happened I suppose. My daughter "face times" with her grandma weekly on the iPad and in theory, a new xbox is cheaper in theory than an iPad.
Still...if it's stuck behind a Xbox Live Gold subscription. You're going to lose some if not most of what's exciting about that.
As for T.V.
America is the wild fuckin west when it comes to deals with cable providers. Here in Canada, shit is locked down tight and cable companies are primarily the internet companies. They don't give a shit about what Microsoft has planned and they LOVE their bandwidth caps.
If the 720 started replacing cable boxes and caused people to cancel their cable subscriptions, my cable company, Time Warner Cable, would send goons to peoples homes with sledgehammers to smash their 720s. Also I only have cable for sports, and there will never be local sports on IPTV so it couldnt be a replacement for most people.
Tripolygon
Banned
Skype was bought because of the user base and name recognition. Pretty much every platform has its own video chat service. If you are an Xbox user, you have a Live account and you can use the Video Kinect service to video chat with anyone on your friends list and if you are a PlayStation user, you have a PSN account and you can use the video chat app to communicate with anyone on your friends list.
Now where Skype has an advantage is the potential of it being hardware agnostic, you can use your phone to chat and talk to friends across the iPhone, Android Phone, Vita, Xbox 360 and PC. Sony has stated they will be releasing an App platform that lets you carry your PSN services with you across the iPhone, Android and i would assume since PSN is part of SEN, your PSN services goes with you to Sony TV and Bluray players and the WEB with the same potential to voice and video chat with anyone around the world with a SEN account.
In other words, Skype on the nextBox will just be replacing video kinect but with the ability to talk to people on other platforms using a Skype account or a Live account. Not a killer feature but a nice addition to the XLive services.
Now where Skype has an advantage is the potential of it being hardware agnostic, you can use your phone to chat and talk to friends across the iPhone, Android Phone, Vita, Xbox 360 and PC. Sony has stated they will be releasing an App platform that lets you carry your PSN services with you across the iPhone, Android and i would assume since PSN is part of SEN, your PSN services goes with you to Sony TV and Bluray players and the WEB with the same potential to voice and video chat with anyone around the world with a SEN account.
In other words, Skype on the nextBox will just be replacing video kinect but with the ability to talk to people on other platforms using a Skype account or a Live account. Not a killer feature but a nice addition to the XLive services.
I don't think he means a physical TV-Tuner inside the box, I think it means being able to view it as a set-top box which can access the TV.
I guess it depends on how MS work Skype into their plans. I can seem them re-launching Windows 8 (Blue I think?), Windows Phone 8 and 720 and then show off all the Skype/feature links.
I know people have plenty of devices that already do this but what if you could reduce the number of devices down to 1 or 2 that are connected with sync abilities between Console, PC and Mobile?
Well, it adds all those bits plus all of the other 360 specific features like Games etc.
I guess it depends on how MS work Skype into their plans. I can seem them re-launching Windows 8 (Blue I think?), Windows Phone 8 and 720 and then show off all the Skype/feature links.
I know people have plenty of devices that already do this but what if you could reduce the number of devices down to 1 or 2 that are connected with sync abilities between Console, PC and Mobile?
Well, it adds all those bits plus all of the other 360 specific features like Games etc.
I use the Sky (UK) app on my 360 and it does pretty much everything you said. You get around 40 live tv channels and hundreds of on demand shows and movies.
I think you're right in that being able to signup for a service and use a device like an Xbox could be a game changer for a lot of people.
I think you're right in that being able to signup for a service and use a device like an Xbox could be a game changer for a lot of people.
The next XBox isn't going to be cheaper than a Nexus 7.
I believe he means the bolded.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
You really think so? I don't think so. Nexus 7 is $200.
Jigolo
Member
So a couple of times = killer app? Also not sure if your post was sarcasm.
Not trying to knock the use of the app since I use it as well....on my laptop.
These are gaming consoles, meant to play games and worry about this kind of stuff as secondary things. Vita has the app but people don't say to themselves "Oh, PS Vita has Skype, now I have to buy it" and I doubt it will be the case for Xbox3.
It should be about the games not apps. MS has it's priorities wrong.
I like this michaelpachter, dude all elaborately explaining his positions even if you disagree with them. Just like the other topic, hats off dude.
I think there's a lot of "ifs" in your idea on why these may be killer apps, and particularly with the TV Tuner thing, some of the ifs are so large that I can't imagine they have any possibility of coming true this next gen or even the one after that - U.S. broadband providers currently have no incentive to lift caps because people going over can potentially be an added revenue stream (upgrade for higher bandwidth cap; pay for whatever bandwidth you go over). What's worse, US. broadband speeds pathetically lag behind much of the industrialized world - and until it doesn't, things like this and Sony's 4K Resolution video service will never be killer apps, as far as I can see.
As for the Skype, unless Microsoft has an exclusivity window on it - and I don't know if they do - I can't imagine it being a killer app. PS4 comes with an EyeToy thing that could conceivably do almost everything the new Xbox Kinect does when it comes to video chat, so it's not something I imagine one or the other would have any meaningful leverage over... unless one of them secures exclusivity. So, Microsoft has acquired skype? Boy, I'm so out of the loop. But even then, I don't think someone is going to go out of their way to buy a videogame console for that... we'll see if Microsoft does the subsidized console pricing thing, it could be revolutionary in terms of console pricing structure. Of course, that revolution would be offset by the comically anti-consumer used games lock that is rumoured.
All of the people in this topic who for the life of them cannot focus on what he is saying and keep going on about 'why is he an analyst' or whatever, all I can do is smh.
I think there's a lot of "ifs" in your idea on why these may be killer apps, and particularly with the TV Tuner thing, some of the ifs are so large that I can't imagine they have any possibility of coming true this next gen or even the one after that - U.S. broadband providers currently have no incentive to lift caps because people going over can potentially be an added revenue stream (upgrade for higher bandwidth cap; pay for whatever bandwidth you go over). What's worse, US. broadband speeds pathetically lag behind much of the industrialized world - and until it doesn't, things like this and Sony's 4K Resolution video service will never be killer apps, as far as I can see.
All of the people in this topic who for the life of them cannot focus on what he is saying and keep going on about 'why is he an analyst' or whatever, all I can do is smh.
Re. skype
I do think video calling can be a very attractive application.
However in this context I don't think a TV console is the most attractive vehicle. Tablets and phones probably are.
'Facetime' is a huge thing with my family now (and is the best video calling I've experienced - Skype is nothing compared to it) - and an iPad mini was bought for my parents at Christmas mostly just for that. Cheaper options exist outside of the FaceTime family too.
Not sure this would be a USP for a TV console. Competes head-on with the smart device space that already has huge traction. Can't really see families connecting via games consoles like this when far more ubiquitous infrastructure already exists. Grandma is far more likely to be bought a phone or tablet to keep in touch than a games console.
I do think video calling can be a very attractive application.
However in this context I don't think a TV console is the most attractive vehicle. Tablets and phones probably are.
'Facetime' is a huge thing with my family now (and is the best video calling I've experienced - Skype is nothing compared to it) - and an iPad mini was bought for my parents at Christmas mostly just for that. Cheaper options exist outside of the FaceTime family too.
Not sure this would be a USP for a TV console. Competes head-on with the smart device space that already has huge traction. Can't really see families connecting via games consoles like this when far more ubiquitous infrastructure already exists. Grandma is far more likely to be bought a phone or tablet to keep in touch than a games console.
Sure, if your TV can play internet video. He specifically mentioned the delivery medium, internet.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Yep. It's a very fun speculative and detailed prediction. If Microsoft plays their cards right, they can be in an advantage in a completely different market and can open up to folks who care more about entertainment and less about gaming.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Interesting thoughts. I use Skype quite a bit for both my work and for personal, but I have to believe that it has to be implemented correctly.
I think the biggest thing is that someone has to be able to call me while I'm doing other things on the XBox including playing games. I have to have the ability to set a default like it can't interrupt during mp matches otherwise it'll be about as useful for me as facebook, lastfm etc. It's not something I'm going to make a point to go use the app itself.
For the TV part, that could be huge if the companies allow me to actually buy per show instead of forcing me into a bundle package. I'm about to cancel my satellite because of the fact that I'm forced to buy all this extraneous stuff I have 0 interest in because I want espn.
Edit: @Amir0x - MS bought Skype.
I think the biggest thing is that someone has to be able to call me while I'm doing other things on the XBox including playing games. I have to have the ability to set a default like it can't interrupt during mp matches otherwise it'll be about as useful for me as facebook, lastfm etc. It's not something I'm going to make a point to go use the app itself.
For the TV part, that could be huge if the companies allow me to actually buy per show instead of forcing me into a bundle package. I'm about to cancel my satellite because of the fact that I'm forced to buy all this extraneous stuff I have 0 interest in because I want espn.
Edit: @Amir0x - MS bought Skype.
After spending all that cash on Skype, I just don't see MS just firing out a Skype App for 720. I can see it being a fully integrated part of the console which should mean some decent voice comms quality for once.
Throw in video chatting during games and any of the fancier features Sony is currently showing off, I am sure as hell MS are doing stuff more than just phoning people on Skype
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Not a fan of private conversations I take it.
Holy fuck am I out of the loop
maybe it's because I have never used Skype even once lol
Edit; Nevermind, I have the program, so I must have used it ONCE. I can't remember when though...
Edit 2: Vita has Skype! So Microsoft is still letting them do their thing, and conceivably would still allow PS4 to do it too?
The Vita could have an auto orgasm button that makes the user automatically ejaculate, it would still have terrible sales.
Also I think 3rd parties are going to be developing games for the Durango, and for me personally exclusive games don't really matter compared to 3rd party software.
Interfectum
Member
There is a better chance "grandma" will have and be able to intuitively use an Apple device over an Xbox. I fail to see how Skype is a killer app in this regard, at all.
Are you seriously saying that families will buy "grandma" a next-generation gaming system + (presumably) an XBL gold subscription to do a weekly video chat with the family over something like an iPad? Come on.
CamHostage
Member
It's on your grandmother's iPad.
That's where it had the opportunity to be a "killer app", on the device (the portable device, I might add) that people of all ages and genders and levels of experience already use for their communication needs. And those $99 streaming devices like Roku that non-techie homes are plugging in by the truckload in order to get their Netflix, those are a $10 USB cam add-on away from bringing Skype to their living room too. (In fact, there's nothing stopping Xbox 360 or PS3 from doing Skype right this very second, the PSP had it years ago and both PS3 and Xbox already have webchat services.)
Having Skype on a bleeding-edge, high-priced video game machine, that'll start to help broaden the audience in years 2-4 maybe if the machine catches on with the casuals, but a killer app at launch? I don't see it at all.