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[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Look at all them Vitas flying off the shelf because of Skype!

These arguments are completely silly. Not understanding the mass appeal of it in an entertainment hub is silly. No one will use their Vita for skype especially when it'll require data/wifi. On Xbox however, you are always connected to the internet. Not seeing the great advantages and benefits of having Skype exclusive to Xbox is also silly.

 

[androvsky]

You really think so? I don't think so. Nexus 7 is $200.

You think the next XBox is going to launch at less than $199? Keep in mind the Nexus 7 doesn't have any ongoing subscription fees needed to use Skype or to use the tablet in general.

Even the 360 is still hovering around $199.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I don't know about that Mr. Pachter, for the Grandma it will be as difficult or even more to buy, hook up and effectively use a next generation console just to Skype

Thats the job for the grand kids to do when they are visiting grandma.

 

[Perkel]

Stuff.

1. Skype as service is everywhere. Almost all people have phone which is either android or IOS (as of now). What you say would be true if Skype would be exciting new feature. Right now if you use Skype you have it on your phone and you don't want to use any other device because phone is hardware for that.

Summary: It is neat feature but it won't sell any Xbox consoles unless MS will promote it to oblivion.

2. Yes that would be amazing feature but there are a lot of "but"

- Europe as hell hole for delivering Europe wide TV. (to many different companies). In US market it will be OK.
- ISP caps. For most of US people this is big problem. Europe is not a problems since we have rather good ISPs.
- Static to on demand transition. What you said is wishful thinking. Everybody knows where TV is heading like you said but same as music CD market won't budge because companies will fear it. Right now only few companies like Netflix are players but most of TV content not even started to be OD product.

Summary: It is big feature like you say that could get many people on board but there are far to many things that must change before this would be in state of being usable.

Second point is like Gaikai point in PS4. It is feature that need to mature. But maturity won't be achieved in near future.

 

[Respawn]

These techs are nothing new and everywhere. I even have the damn thing on my Vita [skype that is]. DVR tech is nothing new also. Direct-tv allows you to watch recorded movies on all your handheld devices. Microsoft has to pull a rabbit out of the hat for anyone to bat an eyelash at this. You're putting to many eggs in that basket Sir. In 2005 you could have been right.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

So far almost the entirely of responders have disagreed with Pachter. This is going to be a great thread to revisit 4, 5 years from now.

 

[CoconutTank]

Skype first--My detractors on this site (and there are many of them) are quick to point out that Skype is available on many devices, including just about any laptop with a built-in camera and any smart phone or tablet. What they miss is that Skype isn't generally available with a wide-angle camera lens, isn't generally available in the living room, and isn't generally very easy for grandma to use. The next generation Xbox cures all of these issues, and lets anybody call anyone else by merely talking to their always connected Xbox. Again, I don't KNOW that this is going to happen, but it makes a lot of sense that it will. Why is that a killer app? Because if you're a 16 year-old living at home, it's an easy hook to sell your parents on the next generation Xbox by convincing them that the entire family can call grandma every night and say goodnight. I think it's even a compelling reason to buy a console for grandma, so she can video chat with her grandkids, and it conveniently gives the 16 year-old something to do when he's forced to visit grandma. I don't know for sure WHY Microsoft bought Skype, but this seems as logical a reason as any. I think that living room to any phone globally is a lot easier than PC to phone, and I think that people with families overseas or far away will be interested in making calls easily (and cheaply) via Skype if the service is included in a plug and play device like the next Xbox.

Okay that's fair.

So why isn't this a big deal for the Wii U? The Wii U is also capable of doing video conferencing under the same conditions as you've outlined here (wide-angle camera lens, generally available in the living room, pretty easy to use). Technically it is more convenient with the Wii U since the camera is built into the Wii U Gamepad, which can be moved around and adjusted for optimal placement, while the camera for the upcoming Microsoft console will theoretically be built into the console itself so only one viewing angle will be available (unless you don't mind picking up your console and moving it around while it is plugged into the wall).

Assuming this really is a big deal but Nintendo didn't pull through on execution, what would you say Microsoft could/should do instead? What will Microsoft do to differentiate the video conferencing service they provide with the video conferencing service that Wii U provides?

Spoiler

And do you think it would be a good idea to stick Skype stuck behind XBLG, assuming XBLG will continue to be a pay wall?

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I for one am excited about the possibility of Skype on the next Xbox. I Skype with Smashers all the time when playing 64 online, so being able to make a chat on XBL with Skypers on the computer would be boss.

 

[madmackem]

These arguments are completely silly. Not understanding the mass appeal of it in an entertainment hub is silly. No one will use their Vita for skype especially when it'll require data/wifi. On Xbox however, you are always connected to the internet. Not seeing the great advantages and benefits of having Skype exclusive to Xbox is also silly.

Its not exclusive though, its on any laptop tablet smart tvs etc etc, no one is going to pay £££ for a GAMES machine that happens to have skype no one. They can use it on many devices they already have.

 

[Arcteryx]

I semi-agree with the Skype aspect, however, the PS4 would be just as capable of doing this as well, or implementing their own variation.

As for the TV "Tuner", not sure why you specifically mentioned this when you discuss Internet streaming, as the Tuner would be irrelevant in that scenario. I do agree that streaming/subscription services WILL play a big part in nextgen. If MS can bring a package deal of sorts with "hot" shows(HBOGo but more content), then that could be pretty killer.

That said, it sounds like you feel that MS is going to go all out on the "entertainment" side of things with the next console and I do agree with you on that. Of the nextgen consoles, MS seems to be leading the way in branching out from "just" gaming.

 

[statham]

alot of you'll did not read his post and making comments he addressed.

 

[drspeedy]

As for the Skype, unless Microsoft has an exclusivity window on it - and I don't know if they do - I can't imagine it being a killer app. PS4 comes with an EyeToy thing that could conceivably do almost everything the new Xbox Kinect does when it comes to video chat, so it's not something I imagine one or the other would have any meaningful leverage over... unless one of them secures exclusivity. So, Microsoft has acquired skype? Boy, I'm so out of the loop. But even then, I don't think someone is going to go out of their way to buy a videogame console for that... we'll see if Microsoft does the subsidized console pricing thing, it could be revolutionary in terms of console pricing structure. Of course, that revolution would be offset by the comically anti-consumer used games lock that is rumoured. .

For me it's really not so much about who owns Skype... it's about the first video chat service to be prevalent and see massive adoption on a regular basis. Doesn't matter who, if anyone can find a way to make it as popular as, say, Farmville then they've already won.

Unless it's paywalled, as Wario64 mentioned.

 

[Meier]

Keep in mind that this Skype functionality could also be used in businesses. Video conferencing software and hardware is INSANELY pricey (a setup may cost $10,000 or more). If a company could spend $400 to use Skype effectively for a conference room, I can see that being very appealing.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I think you're correct on the value of these kind of features for a box that is being subsidized in the living room. Obviously a number of companies (Apple with the AppleTV, for example, cable companies with the PVR services they offer, TV manufacturers with Smart TV junk, etc) are circumspectly trying to follow this model, and obviously if a company can actually form partnerships with cable companies to replace basic cable boxes or PVRs with their own stand-alone CE device, that'll be a big get.

The thing I'm skeptical about is Microsoft's ability to form those partnerships--or anyone, really. I think the service providers Microsoft would need to partner with to get this working are very, very, very scared of being muscled out of business by other content provision avenues; put simply, I think Comcast is scared to allow companies to control this element of their business.

You correctly compare this to the carrier-smartphone manufacturer relationship, but one thing you don't mention is that by far the most successful smartphone company basically came in and ate carriers lunch... and they're not really happy about that. I can't imagine another set of providers are going to be happy being reduced to dumb pipe and marginalized.

Even with my skepticism I think Microsoft will be able to achieve modest success here. With no partnerships, they'll still be able to act a sort of passive receiver, and you correctly note that Microsoft is able to self-subsidize the device (SaaS/HaaS model).

 

[Criminal Upper]

If the big reasons to get excited for the next Xbox is Skype and TV...

I weep for this industry. I truly do.

Okay that's fair.

So why isn't this a big deal for the Wii U? The Wii U is also capable of doing video conferencing under the same conditions as you've outlined here (wide-angle camera lens, generally available in the living room, pretty easy to use). Technically it is more convenient with the Wii U since the camera is built into the Wii U Gamepad, which can be moved around and adjusted for optimal placement, while the camera for the upcoming Microsoft console will theoretically be built into the console itself so only one viewing angle will be available (unless you don't mind picking up your console and moving it around while it is plugged into the wall).

Assuming this really is a big deal but Nintendo didn't pull through on execution, what would you say Microsoft could/should do instead? What will Microsoft do to differentiate the video conferencing service they provide with the video conferencing service that Wii U provides?

Because Iwata is a horrible CEO, and Nintendo's business strategy makes no sense. Come on man, keep up.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Thanks for the interesting details about the rationale behind the cable box prediction.

I think it's going to be tough to impossible to get xboxes into Grandma's home but developing a superior TV experience may be the only possible point of entry. My parents are on the bubble of finally upgrading to an HDTV and at the moment I'm trying to convince them to that they should get an Apple TV and Netflix along with it. I know they'd actually really enjoy it, but a lack of technology understanding and their satisfaction with the status quo keeps them from really embracing the idea.

The major point that makes me think that MSFT/Sony will never truly rule the living room is the high price of the consoles. MSFT may well produce a fantastic box, but with it packed with high end gaming hardware, I have to believe it'll come in around $450+ and there's a huge opportunity for Apple/Samsung/Google to show up and deliver a $99 and less box that delivers on all the cool internet technology, and none of the "useless"[1] game tech.


[1] For the mainstream casual user.

 

[Devilgunman]

Pach, I don't think your idea about Skype is practical. For a grandma, turning on a gaming console is already a challenge. If family wants to video chat with grandparent, an iPad can get the job done much easier. Think about it, saying good night to granny requires her to get up turn on console and tv, switching input to Xbox and talk to kinect. Or she can just hit one button on an iPad while being on the bed. Which one is better?

 

[R1CHO]

It's nice that you take the time explaining it Michael, thanks for that.

I don't agree at all, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[EGM1966]

I get the Skype/TV angle but I remain unconvinced it's actually going to drive demand much outside US and even in the US there are too many options for the Xbox to suddenly become the "killer device" to focus on as an entertainment hub.

Grandma can simply use face time with the nice iPad her kids got her and have already taught her to use for example and Smart TVs are going to offer a lot of the same options sans needing to have something to play games with (i.e. if you're not into the game angle I think other options will dilute the Skype/TV angle).

Outside US I don't see these having much resonance and in fact Sony already has better presence with PS3 and its TV accessories than MS in this niche - plus judging by this gen much better brand loyalty and commitment than MS is likely to see going from this gen to the next. I see no reason (given it's on Vita) for Skype not to be present on PS4 (which seems like it's coming wit a nice two camera Eye accessory as well) so I expect too much parity there. Calls are easy on PS3 with an Eyetoy so TBH given even PS4 has one they don't technically need Skye either if they want to just bake it into the OS themselves (although I think the brand element of Skype would be useful).

Personally I expect MS to own US again and expand a bit outside it, but I actually think Sony - given likely lower sales of Wii U - is going to see a lot of non-US/UK territories turn back to the PS4 giving it globally the edge market share wise and to be closer to MS in US than this gen due to getting better split of Nintendo market-share (assuming I'm right about Wii U of course). So currently I expect Sony to edge next gen with MS not far behind and Nintendo in third with Wii U in terms of hardware market-share.

 

[XtremeXpider]

My thoughts;

I dont agree with you.

My reasons:

Video phones are not popular. People usually want visual privacy when they make a phone call.

People dont want people they are talking to on the phone into their living rooms. A living room is a very personal and private retreat.

Netflix and others are competitors on consoles.

People dont associate Microsoft as their TV provider.

Sonys Play TV PS3 accessory didnt sell that well.

How can you know what everyone want?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

You think the next XBox is going to launch at less than $199? Keep in mind the Nexus 7 doesn't have any ongoing subscription fees needed to use Skype or to use the tablet in general.

Even the 360 is still hovering around $199.

Oh fuck me! I misread his post. Sorry. I read it as "IS" and not "ISN'T". I'll rephrase: the nextbox is going to be more than $200.

 

[Dany]

Not a fan of private conversations I take it.

I guess you use skype differently than I do.

 

[Interfectum]

These arguments are completely silly. Not understanding the mass appeal of it in an entertainment hub is silly. No one will use their Vita for skype especially when it'll require data/wifi. On Xbox however, you are always connected to the internet. Not seeing the great advantages and benefits of having Skype exclusive to Xbox is also silly.

It's also 'silly' to think grandma has any use for a next-generation entertainment hub.

There is a pretty big setup difference between getting good old grandma an Xbox, a Kinect, setting all that shit and also an XBL gold subscription over buying her an iPad Mini for some video chats.

It's not a killer app.

 

[onQ123]

These arguments are completely silly. Not understanding the mass appeal of it in an entertainment hub is silly. No one will use their Vita for skype especially when it'll require data/wifi. On Xbox however, you are always connected to the internet. Not seeing the great advantages and benefits of having Skype exclusive to Xbox is also silly.

What the hell? you act like wifi is a paid service, if you can hook up an Xbox to the internet chances are you can hook up a wifi router & use the Vita.

 

[JB1981]

I know nothing of the logistics behind IPTV/Cable etc but your musings on an Xbox IPTV future sounds really compelling.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Going this route might double down on US-centric 'media box' consumers, but it will be absolutely at the cost of the rest of the worlds sales.

As for MS owning Skype; it's a double edged sword.
Globally, most ISPs are also old fashioned telecoms companies.

The absolute last thing they want to back is Skype, because it negates their core other business.

This is one of the reasons carriers actively dissuade people from buying Windows Phone - they're not going to help MS bury them.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Everyone is disagreeing because everyone is seeing things thinking only in each liking.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Doh totally forgot about the idea that MSFT may be getting partnerships with cable providers in order to lower the price way down. That would certainly improve the value of the idea.

 

[MormaPope]

There is a better chance "grandma" will have and be able to intuitively use an Apple device over an Xbox. I fail to see how Skype is a killer app in this regard, at all.

Are you seriously saying that families will buy "grandma" a next-generation gaming system + (presumably) an XBL gold subscription to do a weekly video chat with the family over something like an iPad? Come on.

Poor reading comprehension.

If the teenager who wants the next gen console can sell the idea of the console benefiting the entire family, simply that being a feasible situation alone will raise chances of raising hardware sales. Grandma could be on her Ipad or computer or whatever while the 16 year old and his family are using the Durango to chat with her.

The Durango being a swiss army knife for consumers is the draw, Skype is just one of the tools.

 

[Delusibeta]

Hence, we can no confirm that the new Xbox will not have a TV tuner (it'll result in many, many variants of the console depending on the country its sold in, which will dramatically increase costs. Also, if you think that US cable companies will be willing to a) lift download caps and b) begin streaming services over the internet, including outside their territory, then I have the Forth Bridge to sell you), and will not have a Skype app (no market due to FaceTime eating the VoIP pie).

 

[gofreak]

As an addendum to my last post, I actually think video calling on the TV is less valuable than on a personal device like a tablet or phone.

Generally speaking my family uses facetime in a way that lets them bring someone into a room with them, so to speak, and let them chat while they're doing other things - very typically I'll facetime my parents while they're watching TV, for example, so we can chat along as if we were all really in the livingroom together. It's a different dynamic than requiring exclusive attention - it's more natural in a way. Conversation ebbs and flows. There's no pressure to keep up a conversation because you're tying up a TV. Or to end a call to free up the big screen.

Now, you can argue that Skype on a console could be put in a little window while people watch something else, but it means audio is sharing the same output channels as the TV, and obscures part of the TV for everyone in the room.

And a neat thing about tablet/phone facetime is being able to 'pick someone up' and bring them into another room when you go make a cup of tea or need some privacy.

All these different dynamics afforded in a personal device context are way more valuable than the value of a wider-angle camera IMO.

 

[MemoryHumanity]

There is a better chance "grandma" will have and be able to intuitively use an Apple device over an Xbox. I fail to see how Skype is a killer app in this regard, at all.

Are you seriously saying that families will buy "grandma" a next-generation gaming system + (presumably) an XBL gold subscription to do a weekly video chat with the family over something like an iPad? Come on.

Pretty much what I wanted to say.

 

[vasametropolis]

Apart from the dirty specifics and examples he has given, I've been calling this exact scenario since the MS PVR patent was leaked like a year or two ago.

I also believe that Microsoft's new console will have the widest adoption easy. Not because it's the best games machine necessarily, but because it's going to be the dominant living room device. Cable companies as-is all have to use their own branded cable boxes anyways, so considering MS could probably pull a superior one out of their asses, this isn't really that hard to believe. MS probably wants to become the standard box that your internet/cable provider gives you.

If this is the case, it's a bold play that will be wildly successful. Whether or not you think this is going to happen is one thing, but everyone knows it's the smart play.

Edit: Just thought I'd throw in that I believe the logic around grandma having one is that grandma watches TV...

 

[artist]

The part about Grandma got me. It took me a good 5 minutes to be type of this short post.

The primary reason Microsoft bought Skype is probably because for their Windows Phone OS, besides having a competitor to Google's voice. Skype integration into the next Xbox is logical but hardly THE reason MS went after Skype.

 

[RurouniZel]

D...Doesn't Wii U have video chat and a Tvii?

 

[Ol No Bones]

There is no doubt in my mind that microsoft will offer loads of new features to the xbox 720 but the question is whether they will be worth it and will consumers want it. If the xbox puts all the new first party studios to work and offers a capable machine graphically I will purchase one all the other stuff is jus icing on the cake for me but to some people it might matter more. Skype is great but this is a games console and early adopters will no be swayed by a better video chat. I hope microsoft has not forgot who made them a success in the console arena to begin with. One scenario that could play out potentially is microsoft trying so hard to be the next apple that sony regains dominance. I think the wii U is already a big flop. Why is nintendo so stupid sometimes?

 

[NoirVisage]

Everyone is disagreeing because everyone is seeing things thinking only in each liking.

i want to understand what you're saying

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What the hell? you act like wifi is a paid service, if you can hook up an Xbox to the internet chances are you can hook up a wifi router & use the Vita.

Vita is a portable device. Xbox isn't. People use Vita to go portable. I rather use my computer if I'm going to Skype. With that said, If I can game and skype, or watch TV and skype simultaneously on the same device without any opening/closing of an app, that's advantage.

Microsoft ditching their video/audio chat and using Skype instead is a killer app to me. Xbox live chat is already better than anything offered right now; using Skype would make it even better.

 

[jwk94]

PS3 has Torne and PlayTV

 

[FStop7]

They're going to have to use Skype in some pretty eye-poppingly creative ways because in of itself... Skype is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

[MormaPope]

Pretty much what I wanted to say.

If you think Pachter is saying Microsoft is trying to appeal to Grandma's, I don't know what to say to that.

 

[famousmortimer]

Keep in mind that this Skype functionality could also be used in businesses. Video conferencing software and hardware is INSANELY pricey (a setup may cost $10,000 or more). If a company could spend $400 to use Skype effectively for a conference room, I can see that being very appealing.

And if that started to move Durangos someone would make something like it but strip out the game features and undercut them.

 

[Raide]

Poor reading comprehension.

If the teenager who wants the next gen console can sell the idea of the console benefiting the entire family, simply that being a feasible situation alone will raise chances of raising hardware sales. Grandma could be on her Ipad or computer or whatever while the 16 year old and his family are using the Durango to chat with her.

The Durango being a swiss army knife for consumers is the draw, Skype is just one of the tools.

This could be the major factor. Sure Granny can use her iPad but kids can also use their 720, Windows Phone, PC etc etc. MS owns Skype, so any device that uses Skype must be feeding into MS right?

 

[Amir0x]

For me it's really not so much about who owns Skype... it's about the first video chat service to be prevalent and see massive adoption on a regular basis. Doesn't matter who, if anyone can find a way to make it as popular as, say, Farmville then they've already won.

Unless it's paywalled, as Wario64 mentioned.

I suppose. We'll have to wait and see, obviously, but I can't presently see any obvious advantage to any console (other than PS4 and Xbox 720 compared to Wii U; Wii U always seems weak by comparison in these sorts of match ups... but Wii looked weak too in all ways vs. PS3/Xbox 360, so *shrug*).

 

[gofreak]

Poor reading comprehension.

If the teenager who wants the next gen console can sell the idea of the console benefiting the entire family, simply that being a feasible situation alone will raise chances of raising hardware sales. Grandma could be on her Ipad or computer or whatever while the 16 year old and his family are using the Durango to chat with her.

The OP does float the theory that it would be a compelling reason to buy Grandma a games console. Not just on the 'family-with-teenager' side.

I think it's even a compelling reason to buy a console for grandma

 

[Lynn616]

I understand the logic, but are you saying that you don't expect Sony to offer a TV service of sorts? They already had one in the EU.

Microsoft expects Sony to have Google TV built into their box.

Does the PS4 have HDMI pass-through? Would be great if it does.

 

[Criminal Upper]

D...Doesn't Wii U have video chat and a Tvii?

Apparently it doesn't.

 

[AuthenticM]

Why the fuck is Skype worth 8 billion dollars ??

 

[Raide]

Vita is a portable device. Xbox isn't. People use Vita to go portable. I rather use my computer if I'm going to Skype. With that said, If I can game and skype, or watch TV and skype simultaneously on the same device without any opening/closing of an app, that's advantage.

Microsoft ditching their video/audio chat and using Skype instead is a killer app to me. Xbox live chat is already better than anything offered right now; using Skype would make it even better.

As soon as I can get a 720 call from one of my friends online and it sends it to my Windows Phone, then I am all for it.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Holy fuck am I out of the loop

maybe it's because I have never used Skype even once lol

Edit; Nevermind, I have the program, so I must have used it ONCE. I can't remember when though...

Edit 2: Vita has Skype! So Microsoft is still letting them do their thing, and conceivably would still allow PS4 to do it too?

If ps4 has Skype (unknown), and nextbox has in-game Skype (heavily rumored), the next generation will just be a lot better because you basically will have a unified friends list between the consoles.