analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I think Sony will keep PSSR console-only as a marketing tactic. Keeping that mythical "special sauce" only on their hardware (even though in reality DLSS is better).
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Will Sony ever launch PSSR on their PC ports to optimize and update it better like DLSS as both Nvidia and AMD supports AI features on their GPU.
- Thread starter Desprado123
- Start date
- Opinion
Topher
Identifies as young
What is so "mythical" about AI upscaling?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Just throwing around fantard shade.
keefged4
Member
But.. DLSS and XeSS are demonstrably better in every metric than PSSR. How is this wrong?
Gen.Grievous
Member
Doubt it. The PS5 Pro is a set hardware configuration so it's relatively easy to code for. If you want to use your algorithm for PC games you need to support different generations of different hardware. AMD would be easiest but you still have differences between RDNA versions, you have Nvidia with different version of tensor cores and you have Intel with the different version of their solution in the future.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It's mythical to those that don't follow the industry closely. Similar to "Blast Processing" or "Emotion Engine" or all kinds of other marketing terms that don't mean much but make the hardware sound special to those that aren't in the know.
Topher
Identifies as young
That would include DLSS then
JimboJones
Member
This is the only way I could see PSSR making sense on PC, basically FSR4 being a rebranded PSSR.
But we don't really know anything about FSR4 right now, might be a totally different thing from AMD.
King Dazzar
Member
Anyone able to confirm? I thought DLSS required specific tensor cores, is there not a special hardware implementation on the Pro too?
JimboJones
Member
Well XeSS has the DP4a pathway that runs on Nvidia and AMD cards, it's not as complex as the model that runs on the XMX cores on intels cards.
Not sure what the limits of what the DP4a pathway is but I would assume it would need a certain level of gpu horse power to be viable.
I have no idea what way PS5 pro is running their PSSR. Is it on dedicated tensor/xmx cores or have they provisioned part of the gpu to handle the machine learning part?
King Dazzar
Member
Yeah I dont know for sure either. But I had read this "AMD uses its XDNA 2 -- the same NPU inside of the new Strix Point APUs -- to handle AI workloads on the PS5 Pro" And we know it doesn't work on base PS5.
JimboJones
Member
Might have to wait for X Rays of the PS5Pro APU at some point to be sure
luca_29_bg
Member
Yeah, XeSS and DLSS...XeSS is much closer to
XeSS isn't that far off from DLSS, even at lower resolutions. PSSR holds its own at higher resolutions but struggles immensely at lower ones, which isn't unexpected.
However XeSS it causes jaggies on vegetation in Silent hill 2, not present with fsr 3.1 and tsaa. It looks like the quality in interiors is higher, maybe because they use a sharpness filter ? Or higher res at the same settings as the others ? Balanced, quality,etc
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
It would require hardware that accelerates AI instructions like INT8 which Nvidia RTX and Intel Arc cards have. This is why XeSS and DLSS predate PSSR.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Not across the board, no
They introduce more aliasing for slightly better stability in certain areas
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
No they aren’t, sorry to burst your bubble
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Sony has actual graphics engineers that can easily compete if not exceed
VictorVectors
Member
“Will Sony bring PSSR to base PS5?”
“Will Sony bring PSSR to Xbox?”
“Will Sony bring PSSR to PC?”
“Will Sony bring PSSR to Nintendo Switch 2?”
Not possible
Hardware upscaling can not be “brought” in software to other platforms.
“Will Sony bring PSSR to Xbox?”
“Will Sony bring PSSR to PC?”
“Will Sony bring PSSR to Nintendo Switch 2?”
Not possible
Hardware upscaling can not be “brought” in software to other platforms.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Please, stop that. The stability isn’t "slightly better" it’s a lot better, and that’s at 1440p where every upscaler looks good. This was also in one game. We now have Alan Wake 2, Jedi Survivor, and Silent Hill 2.
At low resolutions where upscalers are truly tested, PSSR doesn’t hold up at all so far.
Even John still called DLSS the king after playing Ragnarok on the Pro.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
It’s not a lot better at around 1440p, it’s marginal at best with obvious tradeoffs
Still room for improvement on all upscallers, why wouldn’t competition be welcomed?
I’m not sure I trust John on his take with Ragnarok if he was making it out to be some enormous difference, which I doubt he was. Ragnarok looks excellent with pssr
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Every upscaler looks good at 1440p.
PSSR isn’t competing with DLSS. It’s not competing with any other upscaler because it has no competition in the form of AI-based upscalers in console space.
Yes, it will get better. They all have room for improvement, including DLSS. I’m saying that now, outside of 1440p in Sony titles, PSSR doesn’t exactly match DLSS. There’s a lot of work to be done, especially at sub-1080p where some clueless devs decided to stick their flags in anyway.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
no, FSR does not look good at 1440p.
I’m not really seeing the issue, games have no business not running near 1200+p where PSSR looks great
PSSR could do better at lower resolutions and DLSS is better there, but at a competent base resolution the results between the top upscalers are comparable
bender
What time is it?
That humans have accepted it over native resolution.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
It's fine. I'd rather have AI upscaling than anti-aliasing tbh, that shit can look way too blurry.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
HU tested it extensively. It’s fine at 1440p. It’s when you drop below the Quality preset at 4K that it gets ugly.
The issue is devs use sub-1080p resolutions as we’ve seen. It wouldn’t matter if they didn’t, but they do and probably will keep doing it frequently. We can’t just ignore it.
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Zathalus
Member
The stability issues with PSSR makes it still fall short of DLSS. Even on Ratchet you can notice stability issues on the entire frame, although it is reduced at higher resolutions. It's basically the big flaw PSSR has at the moment and is probably something Sony is working on.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I’m playing ratchet, not zoomed in 3x, and don’t notice any “stability issues”
The aliasing on surfaces I do notice, which is better on PSSR
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
XeSS and DLSS already exist on PC so we dont need PSSR.
And on PC it would likely have to use DP4a because I doubt Nvidia and Intel would allow Sony to use the Tensor or XMX cores for PSSR in the event they did port it.
And on PC it would likely have to use DP4a because I doubt Nvidia and Intel would allow Sony to use the Tensor or XMX cores for PSSR in the event they did port it.
Have you compare it to DLSS or XeSS on your panel?
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Zathalus
Member
The differences are quite noticeable even on the DF video, which is dealing with YouTube compression. Saying you see the aliasing differences vs DLSS and not pick up on the entire image stability is pretty much impossible. Switching between HDMI inputs to compare Pro vs PC DLSS, and it's immediately apparent, especially looking at anything with fine detail. I did that on my desktop G4 for example. Stair-stepping (not exactly aliasing as you put it) is worse for DLSS, but that certainly requires zooming or paying extremely close attention to scene detail, and if you are doing the latter there is no way you won't pick up on the slight stability jitter of PSSR.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
They’re zoomed in 3x
Whatever stability issues exist are not a big deal in motion in realistic tv arrangements
I have a hard time imagining anyone playing Ratchet on Pro and the first thing on their mind is temporal stability
ReBurn
Gold Member
It's made from unicorn blood.
Zathalus
Member
You can notice it without zooming in. They also zoomed in on the stair-stepping, so if you picked up on that, you surely must have seen the stability issues as well.
And no, you don't need to zoom in to see stability issues. Once again, YouTube compression vs native makes a hell of a difference. Now I'm not saying it is super obvious, but once you pick up on it is perfectly noticeable. TV size and viewing distance can play a major factor as well. It's not a major dealbreaker with a good implementation and high resolution, but it's certainly an area of improvement for Sony.
keefged4
Member
C'mon man. I'm sure that PSSR will mature and update along the way, but you cannot honestly believe that it's better than DLSS in its current state.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I never said it was. But it does indeed do things better already
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
R&C PSSR is really stable. The opening scene with the crowd on both sides is really hard on upscalers. Their legs will turn to temporal soup with FSR and even XeSS to a degree, but PSSR is clean from I saw.
PSSR does a great job reducing aliasing, but it blurs the texture quality and overall image quality takes a hit compared to DLSS or DLAA. Which makes sense in the context of Sony's goals compared to Nvidia.
NeverYouMind
Member
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bender
What time is it?
I too like chunky pixel artifacts.
NeverYouMind
Member
bender
What time is it?
Neither do I. What's your point?
NeverYouMind
Member
I am not left holding Sony's PSSR.
bender
What time is it?
PaintTinJr
Member
But the fur is next-gen cinematic on PSSR in comparison to basic rasterised fur on DLSS. so it isn't one way.
I suspect PSSR has less to literally 'learn' to train and fix those issue you mentioned in R&C compared to the depth of training DLSS needs to catch up on specific fx like fur.
PaintTinJr
Member
They aren't low resolution, but unclean high noise games on any platform at native at any resolution. Using them as the proof is so disingenuous when DLSS produces better, but ultimately crap results for stability with the same games, where highest resolution native is the least offensive image quality.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
if a game already has PSSR optimized for a pc port it can make a lot of sense
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Couldn't they just update the base ps5 with a software update for it?