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[Xbox Wire] Play Call of Duty Black Ops 6 Day One Game Pass

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CliffyB's Cock Holster
Who the hell is going to buy a console (even a cheap one) then pay a not exactly cheap subscription for a year to RENT a game as money hungry as a F2P title?

It's a "deal" that shows Microsoft fundamentally misunderstand the market and hold gamers in contempt.
 
the bolded part seems to largely be made up, since there’s no indication that major games that aren’t on the service don’t have sales traction on the platform.

I mean, SOME do still see good sales on Xbox. But we know what those games are, most of the time. They're stuff like Madden, FIFA, COD, GTA5....not so much stuff like SF6, Soul Hackers 2, FF7 Ever Crisis, Yakuza 8 (notice a pattern there?).

And "good sales traction" increasingly seems just in relation to the Xbox games that don't have good sales traction outside of the service. It's less than what these games would've been doing on Xbox a few years ago, let alone several years ago during XBO generation. And it just continues to decline, a few outliers aside. When you compare the sales of 3P games on Xbox to those on PS, in many cases you can argue they effectively don't seem to sell on Xbox because the ratio they perform at on PS is significantly more than the actual install base difference between the two platforms.

Unless you guys own Microsoft stock I wonder why you care if a trillion dollar company takes a loss?

For the same reason so many seemed to "care" that a multi-billion dollar 3P publisher took a loss on console exclusives.

And yes I am talking about Square-Enix.

But isn't it broadly similar to PS+ Extra and Premium? I have definitely bought fewer games on my PS5, as I am happily making my way through those game catalogues. Similar to GamePass (which I also have). Theres not that much difference in the experience on either platform in that regard. At least, not from my perspective.
There's absolutely an argument about the 'Netfilx/Spotify' style availability changing the value one sees in each individual product - but, in my experience, there's really *not* much difference in the way I use either console.

I can't see many PS only users specifically switching to Xbox to access CoD on gamepass - but then, I doubt Microsoft expect that, either. But tempting more Xbox users to sub, or entice those who don't usually play to try CoD as it's "free" may well draw more in-game spending, and they will still sell gang-busting amounts on other platforms. Perhaps that's the main play with this strategy? CoD is about as mainstream as you can get - but it can still grow a fair way:

e4NoBFg.png

And there will be plenty of money to be made should they succeed, I suppose.

I'd argue it's a bit different for PS+. With PS+, SIE aren't putting their new releases in the service Day 1. They haven't put any in a year after release besides HFW, which they admit was a mistake and will not repeat going forward. So you're probably looking at 2-4 years between a 1P game releasing for B2P and then going into PS+. With 3P exclusives it's similar.

Sony haven't created the cadence among core customers that they should expect new 1P games Day 1 in their service, so they haven't eroded at the B2P will among their customers the way Microsoft has with many Xbox owners. Additionally, while Sony did have some cheap stacking options for a little bit (when revamping PS+), they quickly ended that, and have done nowhere near the amount of super-cheap promo pricings or "free" methods of paying for PS+, that MS has with Game Pass. So they've avoided devaluing their service in terms of cost-for-worth, too.

The console players who are mostly sticking to GAAS titles like Fortnite, or are playing older games, are not by and large the hardcore & core enthusiast, high-ARPU users in the ecosystem. Those types already played the games in the service when they initially released, or shortly thereafter. So they are much more interested in buying the new releases Day 1, which aren't in the service. MS didn't establish or maintain that balance, and the struggle they've been taking to get Game Pass growth going again (and generally, just trying to salvage what's left of Xbox as a console platform) is reflective of this, IMO.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
For the same reason Ubisoft and EA games are on streaming platforms, for their exclusive games. MS is going full third-party with this news. Ditching hardware altogether.

After the “10-year” agreement to have COD on multi-platforms, MS will REQUIRE a subscription to GamePass in order to play COD.

COD exclusive to GamePass subscriptions is the Long-con for MS.


If MS will require Gamepass to play COD after 10 years, then COD will cease to be a big ticket game going forward.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I don't think it'll kill PlayStation.

I do think this will add at least 15 million extra subs by the end of the year and launch Xbox to first place.

This is COD we're talking about here. I'm struggling to see how this doesn't end up wildly successful for Microsoft. This will be a huge money spinner for them.


Shaking My Head Reaction GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon



I feel bad for you man. Welp......you'll see January 2025 that you'll be horribly wrong. Gaming habits do not work like that.
 

NickFire

Member
Who the hell is going to buy a console (even a cheap one) then pay a not exactly cheap subscription for a year to RENT a game as money hungry as a F2P title?

It's a "deal" that shows Microsoft fundamentally misunderstand the market and hold gamers in contempt.
Playing devil's advocate here --> Most people treat the purchase like a rental anyway. Almost all of my COD's are now "hidden" in my library. Multiplayer is what people love the most, and multiplayer crowds migrate to the newest version anyway. So for most people it is $204 per year (12 * 17) to rent versus $150 (70 plus 80 for online) to own it but still treat it like a rental.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Who the hell is going to buy a console (even a cheap one) then pay a not exactly cheap subscription for a year to RENT a game as money hungry as a F2P title?

It's a "deal" that shows Microsoft fundamentally misunderstand the market and hold gamers in contempt.

The assumption that people who get tempted into a GP sub because of the COD addition will see no additional value from a library of games is one that truly needs to be studied.

I mean, SOME do still see good sales on Xbox. But we know what those games are, most of the time. They're stuff like Madden, FIFA, COD, GTA5....not so much stuff like SF6, Soul Hackers 2, FF7 Ever Crisis, Yakuza 8 (notice a pattern there?).

There’s a certain level of mischief in claiming that GamePass is the reason why sales of many Japanese games are lower on Xbox compared to PlayStation and Nintendo. SF6 is also a puzzling addition to this list since Sony’s securing SF5 exclusivity and purchasing Evo has pretty much pushed the vast majority of fighting game fans to the console.

There’s certainly a reason you aren’t using the likes of Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy as an example.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
I don't think it'll kill PlayStation.

I do think this will add at least 15 million extra subs by the end of the year and launch Xbox to first place.

This is COD we're talking about here. I'm struggling to see how this doesn't end up wildly successful for Microsoft. This will be a huge money spinner for them.

What you are describing is something that might happen if a game like Call of Duty were to suddenly become exclusive to Xbox. That's not the case though. I don't see it making massive waves like you are describing.
 

FeralEcho

Member
We could just be witnessing the final downfall of Xbox with this news for all we know.

If COD doesn't do huge numbers and save gamepass then nothing will. This is the final test and if it fails that's it.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The assumption that people who get tempted into a GP sub because of the COD addition will see no additional value from a library of games is one that truly needs to be studied.

Many casual CoD players only play CoD. Some even just a component of CoD like MP or Zombies*.

If the rest of GP was such a draw, why didn't they join any time over the last 7 years? You know, back when Xbox was in a stronger position?

The premise that it offers a tipping-point on people's decision to buy into the ecosystem also would be a lot more supportable if we weren't past the half-way point of the gen already with the opposition heavily in the lead and its userbase already committed to their digital libraries.

The main beneficiaries will be the Looky-Lou's who's only interest is in the campaign, which are a different cohort to the players I described at the top of this post. Those people will maybe sub for a month before going back to their usual fare, so again its a massive income-negative move.

The upshot of which in the long run will be I expect to slim down or excise the campaign mode altogether because ultimately its just an expensive loss-leader on what is otherwise a standard GaaS title.

This idea that having a lot of titles to choose from is going to make people play more different games I've always found suspect. My take is that for most people there's a short spike of novelty, and then a rapid onset of jadedness and disinterest because there's no longer a need to commit to anything. And that sense of commitment is in my view fucking huge, because you cannot treat games like TV shows, or more aptly Youtube clips, it simply doesn't work because gaming isn't passive.

In simple terms: You get out of it, what you put into the experience. This is the "secret sauce" behind almost every successful game.

So yeah, in summary I expect it to hurt CoD sales-wise, and do very little for Gamepass because most people aren't going to commit to the grind (and the endless upselling of MTX) on a title they don't actually own.

MS simply DO NOT GET IT.


*Well, until they ran the mode into the ground!
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Shaking My Head Reaction GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon



I feel bad for you man. Welp......you'll see January 2025 that you'll be horribly wrong. Gaming habits do not work like that.

I disagree. I think this will move numbers. Microsoft would have analysed the shit out of this. This isn't a random gamble. This is punished Microsoft in ultra Instinct mode. This could their comeback.

Maybe 15 million subs is too much, but at at least 10 million by the end of the year. This news is front page on the BBC website. It's huge!

Also no need to feel bad for me. I'm not a rabid fanboy who needs to defend Microsoft of Sony. Just a prediction.

What you are describing is something that might happen if a game like Call of Duty were to suddenly become exclusive to Xbox. That's not the case though. I don't see it making massive waves like you are describing.

We'll have to wait and see. I could be wrong and it backfires on Microsoft. How many people who play COD on Playstation will be tempted to switch? That's the question.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
They’re both BC and the MP works.

On "every screen"?
I disagree. I think this will move numbers. Microsoft would have analysed the shit out of this. This isn't a random gamble. This is punished Microsoft in ultra Instinct mode. This could their comeback.

Maybe 15 million subs is too much, but at at least 10 million by the end of the year. This news is front page on the BBC website. It's huge!

Also no need to feel bad for me. I'm not a rabid fanboy who needs to defend Microsoft of Sony. Just a prediction.



We'll have to wait and see. I could be wrong and it backfires on Microsoft. How many people who play COD on Playstation will be tempted to switch? That's the question.

Definitely. How much inroads will this make for PC Game Pass is another key question.
 

soulbait

Member
If the rest of GP was such a draw, why didn't they join any time over the last 7 years? You know, back when Xbox was in a stronger position?

You would be surprised by the number of people who still have no idea what GamePass is. Whenever I have non-gaming friends ask me about what to buy, I tell them all of the services and the cheapest entry point is Xbox Series S with GamePass, and they do not know what I am talking about. I then explain to them what it is, XSS vs XSX, PlayStation Exclusives, PlayStation Plus tiers and the difference from GamePass, and more. Usually it results like this:

- if they have kids, they settle on Nintendo Switch
- if they just want to play sports games and some lite gaming, Xbox appeals to them, especially with EA Play being on GamePass Ultimate. They usually do not care about waiting 6 months for the EA games and they like the idea of other big name games being available the day they come out.
- If they used to be big gamers back in the PS2/PS3 era, they lean towards PS5. Also, if they have teens and if their other friends are on PS5, that's where they want to go, but to be honest most of my friends/family who have teens are either just playing Fortnite or on their Meta Quest VR helmets.


We know about GamePass and the other services because this is a big hobby to us. To them, not so much. They are looking for value. A good marketing campaign about COD being on GamePass could help inform and get people to sign up. The problem with game ads are though, a lot of people who are gamers tune them out.
 
The problem is, the mayority of players are on PlayStation. They are not going to buy a Xbox just to play CoD for "free"
I think it was something like 50% PS, 25% Xbox and 25% PC. Given the latter two there's a decent shot at increasing subs past critical mass. No doubt it's a loss leader for subs though.

I do agree the target should probably be Gamepass on PS with COD.
 
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FewRope

Member
I think it was something like 50% PS, 25% Xbox and 25% PC. Given the latter two there's a decent shot at increasing subs past critical mass. No doubt it's a loss leader for subs though.

I do agree the target should probably be Gamepass on PS with COD.
But then GP is just going to be CoDPass, people will sub for maybe two months but then? I honestly dont see it working long term
 
Who the hell is going to buy a console (even a cheap one) then pay a not exactly cheap subscription for a year to RENT a game as money hungry as a F2P title?

It's a "deal" that shows Microsoft fundamentally misunderstand the market and hold gamers in contempt.

The same people that buy only FIFA games for their console. And its not only one COD, they will probably put all the older ones as well as any other upcoming titles going forward.
 

Ozzie666

Member
I always assume COD players are religious in terms of playing the game until the next one. Cheaper to buy the game outright than pay for gamepass, unless you want to check out something else. But my understanding is COD is pretty much a full time job like an MMO? Happy to be wrong. I'll be really interested to see if it has a spike effect on subs or not.
 

Chukhopops

Member
I always assume COD players are religious in terms of playing the game until the next one. Cheaper to buy the game outright than pay for gamepass, unless you want to check out something else. But my understanding is COD is pretty much a full time job like an MMO? Happy to be wrong. I'll be really interested to see if it has a spike effect on subs or not.
You still need to pay for the base subscription anyway to play CoD (not Warzone) online as far as I know.

So the price difference is basically €26:

- €70 + €60 for GP Core and the game
- €156 for a year of GPU

Then anything you buy inside the game will have the 10% GP discount on add-ons. So it’s not that bad of a deal even if you only play CoD, if anything it might push people who already pay for GP Core to go Ultimate.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
Re. the speculation about the number of "new subs" required to make this a good move... (And check my reasoning here, because I could be off.)

As I understand it, if an Xbox owner is paying to play online, he/she is already counted in the GP sub numbers. Last year, MS re-labelled Xbox Live Gold as "GP Core," folding those numbers into the GP totals. Anyone playing online on Xbox (unless they're playing a F2P title) is already a GP customer, right?

If someone like that - a Core GP customer - wants to play CoD Day 1, he will have to upgrade his GP account from Core to Ultimate, right? He will have to pay an additional $7/month. But his decision would not affect the total GP subs. He was a GP customer before, and he will be a GP customer after. He has just shifted to a higher GP tier. Total GP sub numbers do not change. Receipts do, by $7/month, but total subs don't.

I wonder if analyses of "how many new GP subs are required to make this a success" take this into account?

People seem to be talking about people adopting GP who haven't bought in already. And yet that seems highly unlikely. I mean, we're talking about 5 to 10 million people who are both avid CoD players, yet also not online? CoD is primarily a multiplayer game, and CoD devotees are almost all already paying for online (i.e., they are already GP customers).

As far as I can tell, that's where any boost in GP total has to come from - CoD lovers who are not online already. How many of them are there? Not many. Just the guys who buy CoD for the SP campaign - and they wouldn't be permanent GP customers anyway; they'd just dip in and dip out.

[I'm talking here about Xbox. I'm excluding PC, because I'm not clear how it works there.]

How can we be expecting a massive jump in persistent GP subs, when most CoD lovers are already counted in current GP numbers? Am I missing something?
 
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avin

Member
I'm skeptical this will work out for them, but interested in the results of this experiment. It's something new, and we may learn something.

avin
 
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There’s a certain level of mischief in claiming that GamePass is the reason why sales of many Japanese games are lower on Xbox compared to PlayStation and Nintendo. SF6 is also a puzzling addition to this list since Sony’s securing SF5 exclusivity and purchasing Evo has pretty much pushed the vast majority of fighting game fans to the console.

Mischief? How? It's just a factual statement. Just because SFV was a PS4 exclusive doesn't mean other Japanese fighting games were; outside of the super-niche ones, ALL the other big fighters that gen came to both platforms. Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive were all on PS & Xbox. Even stuff like KOF were on Xbox IIRC. It's not like Japanese fighters were completely absent just because SFV was a PS4 console exclusive.

Also from what I've seen, even tho Sony co-own EVO, a lot of people in the FGC at least still prefer playing on PCs. If these games were still getting arcade ports, some would be playing there instead. And Sony owning a part of EVO doesn't prevent Microsoft from participating; in fact we just learned that MS themselves stopped hosting KI tournaments because they were afraid players would've expected a sequel!

To the claim that GP has suppressed sales of Japanese games on Xbox...well this is just another fact. If you broke down the initial 1 million sales of the latest Yakuza game globally, most were across PS5 & PS4 and, extrapolating from Steam data, most of the remaining sales were on Steam. Xbox probably accounted for less than 1/5th of that 1 million initial sales goal being reached. Potentially less than 150K, and this worldwide.

What was different from this last Yakuza game vs. others? It wasn't Day 1 in Game Pass. So the Xbox Game Pass owners who had been conditioned to expect Yakuza games in the service, decided to just not buy the new Yakuza at a high rate, since it wasn't in Game Pass. There are other examples too, like Soul Hackers 2 (another SEGA/Atlus game BTW), showing how Game Pass has mentally conditioned a lot of Xbox customers to buy less games, especially if they aren't in the service.

We also now have data showing that people are playing a big amount of older titles across all platforms. So why would this not be the case for Game Pass subscribers? If a new game isn't in the service, why wouldn't they just settle for something already in the service to play instead? And it'd seem, going by sales splits, the average Xbox customer is a lot more likely to do this than the average PlayStation or Nintendo customer (Nintendo customers being the least likely because there is no robust Game Pass or Playstation Plus-type service on Nintendo platforms, and no NSO+ doesn't count because those are VERY old/retro games).

There’s certainly a reason you aren’t using the likes of Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy as an example.

I easily could, because even with those games Xbox's portion of sales was quite small and grew increasingly smaller over time out of the launch period. Have you seen some of the UK boxed charts? Multiple times, Hogwarts had less than 10%, even less than 5%, of its sales on Xbox. And before you say "well, there's digital!", in the UK we know now that among digital sales PlayStation has a bigger share than Xbox, as well. So on average, games are selling more digital copies on PS than they are selling on Xbox, and when you combine that with the physical software splits, 99% of the time the digital sales aren't enough on Xbox to make up the difference.

And if that is happening in the UK, one of Xbox's last strongholds, why would that not be happening to a similar degree in America (a market that has historically mirrored the UK in customer habits for gaming)? Why would it not be happening to even greater degree outside of those markets, where Xbox has historically struggled?
 

amigastar

Member
Good thing it comes out on Game Pass. Still have to continue Call of Duty®: Modern Warfare® from 2023 though, which i really like.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
To the claim that GP has suppressed sales of Japanese games on Xbox...well this is just another fact. If you broke down the initial 1 million sales of the latest Yakuza game globally, most were across PS5 & PS4 and, extrapolating from Steam data, most of the remaining sales were on Steam. Xbox probably accounted for less than 1/5th of that 1 million initial sales goal being reached. Potentially less than 150K, and this worldwide.

What was different from this last Yakuza game vs. others? It wasn't Day 1 in Game Pass. So the Xbox Game Pass owners who had been conditioned to expect Yakuza games in the service, decided to just not buy the new Yakuza at a high rate, since it wasn't in Game Pass. There are other examples too, like Soul Hackers 2 (another SEGA/Atlus game BTW), showing how Game Pass has mentally conditioned a lot of Xbox customers to buy less games, especially if they aren't in the service.

What is the source of this data? Other than UK Boxed Only sales numbers, which I don't think account for Yakuza's million sales anyway.
 
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