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[StreetsofBeige]

Sorry I’m REALLY late to all this (even though it’s a few days old) and there is no way I have time to sift through 30-odd pages in here, but to summarize, Alec apparently abused Zoe, he was not mentally stable, and was getting help. He apologized to Zoe for his past behavior but that wasn’t enough so, for brownie points, she calls him out on twitter just to say she can be a victim as well... is that about right or am I WAY off on this whole thing?

Pretty spot on.

The fallout is now some people (like Zoe) disappearing from the net by shutting down her Twitter. And some guy who worked at Gamespot did something similar I think.... where he was basically outing Alec as a loser on forums (before he died), but then suddenly did a 180 and made a nice post-death comment about him.

 

[xGreir]

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what to say.

I heard some things about Zoe Quinn bitching about someone, and laughed about it, thinking that no one in his sane mind would give her attention.

Now this guy, Alec, a young game developer, is dead, and no one is going to pay for this, not her, not Era, the "nice guys" who seeked this ending, no one.

We all have made mistakes, and at least him was strong enough to acknowledge it and seek help, maybe would be interesting to know what Zoe did, or is doing right now, wouldn't it?

But that's not enough even years after for the "nice guys"

Rot in hell

 

[Danglingwang]

At this point a man has killed himself because of a witchhunt based on zero evidence.

Even if she is telling the truth, the reality is, the social media witchhunt is the reason this man killed himself, a man that could possibly have redeemed himself had this witchhunt not have happened.

Anybody who thinks that is ok needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

 

[MacReady13]

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what to say.

I heard some things about Zoe Quinn bitching about someone, and laughed about it, thinking that no one in his sane mind would give her attention.

Now this guy, Alec, a young game developer, is dead, and no one is going to pay for this, not her, not Era, the "nice guys" who seeked this ending, no one.

We all have made mistakes, and at least him was strong enough to acknowledge it and seek help, maybe would be interesting to know what Zoe did, or is doing right now, wouldn't it?

But that's not enough even years after for the "nice guys"

Rot in hell

And this is the big problem today- even if you do apologize it isn’t enough. Nothing is enough so suicides happen. Alec may have done wrong... we don’t know. But to accuse on a public forum and ruin the guys career AFTER he apologized and was seeking professional help is just pathetic on Zoe and all who pushed him to this spot. Fucking hell what a sad time we are living in.

Remember kids, be perfect and never fuck up in life or else you will go nowhere.

 

[Kamina]

What if 2 Women make contradicting Statements ?

Then the one who is more brown wins.
Alternatively, they have a queerness battle of whoever identifies as most genders wins.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I've talked to PT since, he sincerely nregrets the post and is stepping back from the internet for a bit.

Well that's good. First bit of good news since this whole fiasco started, isn't it?

 

[llien]

Then the one who is more brown wins.
Alternatively, they have a queerness battle of whoever identifies as most genders wins.

It would be funny, if it wasn't so close to truth that it hurts...

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

At this point a man has killed himself because of a witchhunt based on zero evidence.

Even if she is telling the truth, the reality is, the social media witchhunt is the reason this man killed himself, a man that could possibly have redeemed himself had this witchhunt not have happened.

Anybody who thinks that is ok needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Yep.

Mob justice is never okay.

Every mob feels justified in its outrage.

 

[BlueAlpaca]

I remember watching futurist Ray Kurzweil talking about how the internet will abolish mobs and reason and evidence will dominate discussion. I think he said something like 'smart mobs', I don't know lol, will weed out ignorance all over the internet and make society better. Well....

 

[StreetsofBeige]

At this point a man has killed himself because of a witchhunt based on zero evidence.

Even if she is telling the truth, the reality is, the social media witchhunt is the reason this man killed himself, a man that could possibly have redeemed himself had this witchhunt not have happened.

Anybody who thinks that is ok needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

It sucks that the net can be it's own justice system.

As many of us have said before, sometimes you have to force yourself to get away from the net if you are vulnerable. For some people like Alec he probably cant help it much since his career is gaming which is internet related.

But for others who don't need to be hooked up to social media all the time, I don't know how to do it, but got to get away.

It's like burned out guys slogging it at work....... get away and go golfing or fishing for weeks. But if you're going to get home and log back into work email after dinner, it'll never improve.

The net is addicting. But like all addictions, some people can handle it better than others. Some people can somehow drink 10 beers and be fine. Someone drinks 1 beer and they are already feeling weird. If you are that 1 beer person..... don't drink 2 or 3.

 

[DragoonKain]

The irony is, all of this outrage mob mentality is so self-serving, when they masquerade like they are doing it for a greater purpose. They are doing it for retweets, and social media attention. They are doing it because they want to come off as noble and righteous on social media. They are doing it because (some of them at least) are lonely and horny and they think hardcore "believing all women" on social media will get them laid. They are doing it because they are angry at the world and need their next individual to attack. Most of these people make a handful of social media posts and don't do shit. They don't support women's advocate groups. They don't donate to rape survivor organizations. They don't attend conferences or charities. They are the most self-serving MFers on the planet and hide behind this phony cause of righteousness.

One's actions tell a lot about a person. You can "believe" Zoe Quinn all you want. That is irrespective to the reality. It makes no difference what you believe whatsoever. You are not law enforcement. You can believe her if you choose to do so and go about your day. But no, they need to "believe" and attack. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can both believe someone who tells a story, and not attack the person they accuse. But they believe and attack. They believe and just casually refer to Alec as a "rapist" without any proof. That is WAY WAY WAAAAAY more desctructive than anything people like us are doing on this website. And it's totally unnecessary. The reality is, these people have tons and tons of pent up rage and anger, and Zoe Quinn gave them someone new to direct it towards. "Believe women" should mean "take their word for it." To these nutjobs it means "take their word for it and go attack and destroy the accuser without proof." The latter is unnecessary. The former is fine. That's what these idiots don't understand. They let their anger and desire for attention drive them.

And it wouldn't hurt them to get a little more educated on the subject too. I've been reading a lot of factually incorrect stuff about rape culture all over the place today. They just adopt other idiot beliefs as their own, and that's how fucking cults start. False information just spreads and you have a bunch of mindless idiots regurgitating falsities and cliches.

 

[captainraincoat]

I don't think it's long before reee ends up in court for defamation or allowing harassment of people resulting in monetary loss or psychological torment ......its then you will see reee disappear as court cases are not cheap

This is one of the core problems in the community right now.

It's not just that they want to sweep certain bad behavior under the rug but anyone who even looks like they might expose it has to be filed under "terrible, irredeemable, person".

They don't see a difference of opinion or a more measured approach or a thoughtful disagreement. It's either "you agree with me" or "you are a far right racist etc".

Would there even be any "alt-right" guidelines on how to feel about a situation like this? I thought they are mostly about race and genetics and white nationalist stuff? I would have thought that the Alt-Right would be ALL ABOUT protecting white women like ZQ?

I often wonder about these Twitter weirdos who have like 30+ thousand followers and yet never seem to get above 100 likes and 20 comments on their Tweets. How do you know that you aren't just shouting into the void?

This person has 47.4k tweets with 119k likes. That's a little over 2.5 likes per tweet. From an audience of 33.2 thousand.
That's like standing up in front of an entire stadium to make a statement and 2 people clap while everyone else is silent.

"We" are monitoring alt-right sites. Who the hell is "we"?

Is KiwiFarms even alt-right? I thought they were just an "anything goes" site for doxxing and gossiping about internet celebrities?

Kiwifarms have no real leaning....they simply spectate and prod the side which are the most unstable for entertainment which just happens to be resetera

They still have jabs at gaf quite a bit also but most people simply associate them with being alt right because they don't have an opinion.....their opinion is they provoke chaos and if you are in a way vulnerable they will find a way to provoke that

I definitely don't defend some of the shit they do as some of it is flat out mean and hateful but it's important to read up in their megathread of gaf and era as it really disects the implode and highlights the levels of fuckery that went on to throw evilore and gaf under a bus for no other reason for money and power (controlled narrative)

4chan I'm pretty sure you could call right leaning

Gaf I would definitely say centre....but as left leaning people see things if you are not one of the flock there is no centre so your alt right

 

[00_Zer0]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra, I could no longer take the mob mentality and group think social justice types that would not bend on an honest to God rational opinion that was different than theirs. The suicide of Alec pushed me over the edge. I was more of a lurker here than anything, but I figured now would be the time to make my presence known.

 

[JimmyJones]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra

 

[Cosmogony]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra, I could no longer take the mob mentality and group think social justice types that would not bend on an honest to God rational opinion that was different than theirs. The suicide of Alec pushed me over the edge. I was more of a lurker here than anything, but I figured now would be the time to make my presence known.

Welcome!

I don't know if ResetEra Takes is your Twitter account, but, generally speaking, I would just caution against making definitive pronouncements about the reasons behind Alec's alleged suicide. As far as I'm aware, very little has been established with the necessary degree of confidence at this point.

I could be wrong, though.

 

[EightBit Man]

Welcome to sanityville, 00_Zer0

 

[Bryank75]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra, I could no longer take the mob mentality and group think social justice types that would not bend on an honest to God rational opinion that was different than theirs. The suicide of Alec pushed me over the edge. I was more of a lurker here than anything, but I figured now would be the time to make my presence known.

 

[00_Zer0]

I don't know if ResetEratakes in your Twitter account, but, generally speaking, I would just caution against making definitive pronouncements about the reasons behind Alec's alleged suicide. As far as I'm aware, very little has been established with the necessary degree of confidence at this point.

Did he die of a heart attack or was he murdered? I don't think so. I have common sense that I am using. Now common sense also tells me that this ResetEra Takes account can rile up forces that can be just as bad as ResetEras real take on this issue. It did not rile me up into a frenzy. It made me aware of gaming journalists going full force into getting this news out there about his alleged sexual abuse against zoe, but when news comes in about this man's suicide they coddle the masses by calling it passing away or death. That's just not right.

 

[Dynasty8]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra, I could no longer take the mob mentality and group think social justice types that would not bend on an honest to God rational opinion that was different than theirs. The suicide of Alec pushed me over the edge. I was more of a lurker here than anything, but I figured now would be the time to make my presence known.

Welcome. Feel free to disagree with anyone and have rational conversations without getting shamed and banned.

 

[oagboghi2]

R Rhysser , do you still think making unsubstantiated rape claims on Twitter is a universal good?

 

[Ogbert]

I would just caution against making definitive pronouncements about the reasons behind Alec's alleged suicide.

Further to that, I bow to no man in thinking that the gaming press is utter garbage, but someone pointed out in response to that tweet that publications aren't legally allowed to state suicide before it's been confirmed by the authorities.

I'm sure many of those outlets are craven cowards, but some might, ironically, just be following press standards,

 

[00_Zer0]

Thanks for the clarification Ogbert I had orginally replied to Cosmogony stating that it should not be labelled passing away, but if they are not legally allowed it all makes sense. That comment has been deleted or needed aprroval anyway and doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[nush]

Further to that, I bow to no man in thinking that the gaming press is utter garbage, but someone pointed out in response to that tweet that publications aren't legally allowed to state suicide before it's been confirmed by the authorities.

I'm sure many of those outlets are craven cowards, but some might, ironically, just be following press standards,

That would make more sense.

 

[Stefan.North]

Some crazy line of thought these Mee2 gang. Paraphrasing:

"There was like, this guy I was dating and he, like, one night farted when I talked to him. And when I wanted him to hug me he never did. And then he hugs me when I don't want...
Let's get him fired, unemployed for life, make everyone avoid him, never have girlfriend again, bully his family and supporters... because he farted that one time!"

If hell exists, these people end deep in 9th circle.

 

[The Scrivener]

What if 2 Women make contradicting Statements ?

2+2=5

 

[Shantae]

It’s funny. This thread and situation just made me think of a few things. People on the resetera side of things, the people who aren’t swayed by any form of common sense, they look at sites like NeoGAF and have the nerve to call it alt right, or that it’s a hate group.

What I find hilarious, is that the way NeoGAF is now, I find it more welcoming and accepting then ever before. There are totally posts from people on here that I don’t always agree with, but that’s okay, because that’s what accepting diversity really is in my eyes. I love that we can have this discussion and not fear that we will be scolded and mocked for daring to have a different perspective on things. It’s not a welcoming environment where you feel forced to conform to the way things are done, and it legit made me feel like shit when I always had to walk on eggshells on the old gaf, or when I had an era account.

I don’t disagree that maybe people should be told to cool it if they are behaving like an asshole to the community, but that was not the reason that so many people would get banned on old gaf and on current era. It was just because they dared to be different. When I got banned on old gaf, I honestly did not even know much about Zoe Quinn and was just commenting on what I saw, and called it like I saw it. Hell, prior to gamergate, I actually remember enjoying an interview I saw on giantbomb with her, before I knew she was a horrible human being. I had no stake in it, or reason to hate her. Then all of a sudden I was lumped in with gamergate, which I didn’t even know existed at the time lol I was like “uh what did I do wrong”

Like I said though, current NeoGAF isn’t like that right now I feel. I like posting on here now and engaging with you folk. I like that we are allowed to make criticism and not be ostracized for it. Sometimes just having an outlet is all people like me want.

 

[buizel]

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It’s funny. This thread and situation just made me think of a few things. People on the resetera side of things, the people who aren’t swayed by any form of common sense, they look at sites like NeoGAF and have the nerve to call it alt right, or that it’s a hate group.

What I find hilarious, is that the way NeoGAF is now, I find it more welcoming and accepting then ever before. There are totally posts from people on here that I don’t always agree with, but that’s okay, because that’s what accepting diversity really is in my eyes. I love that we can have this discussion and not fear that we will be scolded and mocked for daring to have a different perspective on things. It’s not a welcoming environment where you feel forced to conform to the way things are done, and it legit made me feel like shit when I always had to walk on eggshells on the old gaf, or when I had an era account.

I don’t disagree that maybe people should be told to cool it if they are behaving like an asshole to the community, but that was not the reason that so many people would get banned on old gaf and on current era. It was just because they dared to be different. When I got banned on old gaf, I honestly did not even know much about Zoe Quinn and was just commenting on what I saw, and called it like I saw it. Hell, prior to gamergate, I actually remember enjoying an interview I saw on giantbomb with her, before I knew she was a horrible human being. I had no stake in it, or reason to hate her. Then all of a sudden I was lumped in with gamergate, which I didn’t even know existed at the time lol I was like “uh what did I do wrong”

Like I said though, current NeoGAF isn’t like that right now I feel. I like posting on here now and engaging with you folk. I like that we are allowed to make criticism and not be ostracized for it. Sometimes just having an outlet is all people like me want.

I mean, there's an honest question there... should mods just be guardians of civility or should they direct the conversation?

I prefer the laissez faire approach. I like that so far from what I've seen that's how things work here.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra, I could no longer take the mob mentality and group think social justice types that would not bend on an honest to God rational opinion that was different than theirs. The suicide of Alec pushed me over the edge. I was more of a lurker here than anything, but I figured now would be the time to make my presence known.

 

[KURDISTAN YPG]

From reading this post time to time on my smoke breaks at work, that twitter lady should face some law justice for her action, attention seeking people and from what i read from her site is fill with lots of “ i wanna fit in” type personalities, sad a twitter post can cause so much pain to a person, it was nail on the coffin when his peers released him from his personel job, ther was no way a person could recover from such a mess.

ZQ, why didnt you let authorities know when this happen? O right you need attentions and feel victimized so “ the try hards can fund you”

What a dumb fucking bitch.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Further to that, I bow to no man in thinking that the gaming press is utter garbage, but someone pointed out in response to that tweet that publications aren't legally allowed to state suicide before it's been confirmed by the authorities.

I'm sure many of those outlets are craven cowards, but some might, ironically, just be following press standards,

Epstein had suicide up and down every news outlet before the official coroner report many days later.

You can use the word “apparent”.

A lot of those articles are sad still posturing Chelsea as the victim, when a man is dead.

#FemalePrivilege

 

[dream]

I didn’t know Alec, but his sister is a friend of mine, and she’s been telling me for a while that her brother had been very earnestly seeking help for quite some time. Knowing the fragility of his mental health made it especially horrifying to see the hate mob—the majority of whom I suspect had no involvement or connection to Alec or his alleged victim—creeping towards his direction...

 

[Shantae]

I mean, there's an honest question there... should mods just be guardians of civility or should they direct the conversation?

I prefer the laissez faire approach. I like that so far from what I've seen that's how things work here.

Totally think it should be the former. Bullying and trolling other users is childish and immature. Keeping that type of behavior in check is what I think mods should do. Guiding the discussion is a thin line because then you get resetera where the mods themselves seem to do the bullying.

As someone who was bullied mercilessly as a child, I guess I have a low tolerance for that behavior. It infuriated me when that seemed to become the norm, under the guise of fighting misogyny, sexism and racism. Zoe Quinn says she was harassed and bullied, bull shit. Being bullied is when people try to hurt you for no reason. Zoe and other similar figures that were so called harassed were getting valid criticism for their sketchy behavior. They call that just desserts. You want equality, well there it is. You get called out for being a narcissistic manapulative cruel person just like anyone else would. Congrats, you’re equal.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Hello NeoGaf! I just self nuked my account on ResetEra, I could no longer take the mob mentality and group think social justice types that would not bend on an honest to God rational opinion that was different than theirs. The suicide of Alec pushed me over the edge. I was more of a lurker here than anything, but I figured now would be the time to make my presence known.

I've not been here very long (lurked a bit in the past as a none member) and I've already discovered things can get quite rough and tumble as a poster. But as boisterous as things can get, mob action isn't welcomed by anyone I've encountered and I honestly don't think hate campaigns would tolerated.

Certainly, in my short time here I've not seen any evidence of moderators trying to direct conversation towards attacking individuals or punishing people who have concerns about dangerous overreaction.

 

[Scopa]

“‘Allo. Zis is your kommandant zpeaking. It haz kome to my attention that ze kat is out of ze bag, our zekret is out. People zeem to know we are alt-right. It is unklear how day know diz. But, I order you all to pretend you are normal, free-thinking people for ze time being. Await further instruktionz. Heil Evilore.”

 

[STARSBarry]

I see alot of discussion about ZQ in this and get it, but the way I look at it here in regards to this developers death is she manufactured the gun and the bullets.

However it was people like Matt Thorson & Scott Benson who came out without any evidence and said "yeah he tottaly is that type of guy" and then fired him with no evidence other than a single twitter post, that was who pulled the trigger. The firing ruined his life, he probably had bills to pay and no one believed him what else was he going to do? Man up and go back to his parents to live in there basement? Nope he felt attacked and from all sides, its not like people kill them selves because they dont fear death, they do it because death becomes alot less terrifying than the next day, and these people perfectly and knowingly created a situation like that with no evidence other than a single tweet... well fucking done.

Remember Infinite Fall, remember the names Matt Thorson and Scott Benson remember the names of the developers who did this and dont buy anything they produce, really is there anything else as consumers we can legally do in this situation

 

[Musky_Cheese]

“‘Allo. Zis is your kommandant zpeaking. It haz kome to my attention that ze kat is out of ze bag, our zekret is out. People zeem to know we are alt-right. It is unklear how day know diz. But, I order you all to pretend you are normal, free-thinking people for ze time being. Await further instruktionz. Heil Evilore.”

Those losers are for real thinking their world is The Winter Soldier movie come to life

Quick everyone pretend to be Shield agents

 

[DeepEnigma]

Those losers are for real thinking their world is The Winter Soldier movie come to life

Quick everyone pretend to be Shield agents

And you can only forgive things they’ve done in the past that you crucify others for, if they direct your favorite nerd movies.

Those doofy mofos are painfully transparent.

 

[Komatsu]

I've not been here very long (lurked a bit in the past as a none member) and I've already discovered things can get quite rough and tumble as a poster. But as boisterous as things can get, mob action isn't welcomed by anyone I've encountered and I honestly don't think hate campaigns would tolerated.

Certainly, in my short time here I've not seen any evidence of moderators trying to direct conversation towards attacking individuals or punishing people who have concerns about dangerous overreaction.

People here will call you "imbecile" or "fool" to your face - which I know is not standard/frowned upon in more genteel places - and you find opinions way beyond what RE or Kotaku's comment section would tolerate. Some of which I and/or other users might find objectionable.

But you won't be banned for commenting about, say, Kingdom Come: Deliverance or being a Trump voter, etc. etc. I'm very left myself and, as I said before, I've never felt unwelcome.

 

[Catphish]

I remember when video games were things you did for fun.

Holy fuck this world.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I didn’t know Alec, but his sister is a friend of mine, and she’s been telling me for a while that her brother had been very earnestly seeking help for quite some time. Knowing the fragility of his mental health made it especially horrifying to see the hate mob—the majority of whom I suspect had no involvement or connection to Alec or his alleged victim—creeping towards his direction...

Alec's sister must be having the most unimaginably terrible time right now. I think she'll probably be working through this for years, or decades.

And yeah, there is no such thing as a righteous mob.

 

[48086]

Does anyone have a list of screwed up things retardera has done? Clearly the Alec hate brigade. Wasn't there a streamer that also recently committed suicide that they hated? Anything else?

Alec's sister must be having the most unimaginably terrible time right now. I think she'll probably be working through this for years, or decades.

And yeah, there is no such thing as a righteous mob.

His sister essentially threw him under the bus in her twitter response. It was disgusting.

 

[DrCheese]

I remember when video games were things you did for fun.

Holy fuck this world.

Yeah. I love gaming, but I'm really starting to hate the extremely toxic culture that seems to run along side it.

 

[EightBit Man]

I'm off to bed. Thanks guys for the great posts. Zoe may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter...criminally negligent manslaughter...think about it.

 

[Rolling_Start]

People here will call you "imbecile" or "fool" to your face - which I know is not standard/frowned upon in more genteel places - and you find opinions way beyond what RE or Kotaku's comment section would tolerate. Some of which I and/or other users might find objectionable.

But you won't be banned for commenting about, say, Kingdom Come: Deliverance or being a Trump voter, etc. etc. I'm very left myself and, as I said before, I've never felt unwelcome.

I'm left leaning too brother. Not even upset by being asked to use people's preferred gender pronouns.

Things might get rough, but that's different than an insidious, creeping punishment of wrongthink.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Yeah. I love gaming, but I'm really starting to hate the extremely toxic culture that seems to run along side it.

You and I both. I was born into gaming, and it never left me. I'm 35 now, and I despise the fact that I feel like my favorite hobby has been dying infront of me for years now. As if it's slowly being disemboweled because of the bizarre butthurt and faux social outrage movement. It's the absolute worst. Social media has its pros, but good God does it have its cons.

 

[dream]

Alec's sister must be having the most unimaginably terrible time right now. I think she'll probably be working through this for years, or decades.

And yeah, there is no such thing as a righteous mob.

Luckily, she has a good support network. But she also has struggles of her own, and, yeah, losing her brother in this way is absolutely gutting, and I worry about her.

 

[Shantae]

Yeah. I love gaming, but I'm really starting to hate the extremely toxic culture that seems to run along side it.

Yeah, same here. I’m not a spring chicken anymore, I have things I want to do in my life that require a lot of attention, but the drama that goes on in the industry is just so taxing emotionally. Even if the situation doesn’t affect me personally, it has affected the games I love. As much as I like what NeoGAF has become, I am thinking I may have to unplug from the internet soon if I ever want my dreams realized. Might sell the PS4 and stick with Nintendo switch, play games I love on there and focus on my goals.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yeah. I love gaming, but I'm really starting to hate the extremely toxic culture that seems to run along side it.

Some people decided to fight culture wars over pixels and here we are now.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Luckily, she has a good support network. But she also has struggles of her own, and, yeah, losing her brother in this way is absolutely gutting, and I worry about her.

I've lost people who mattered enormously, but never anyone in this manner.

For what it's worth, I wish her the absolute best.