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Not quite, hardware accelerated Ray tracing could mean just assisted/accelerated by the GPU like the Cryengine demo, the most correct term or phrase everyone should be looking for is "dedicated" Ray Tracing hardware. It remains to be seen if even MS or Sony have it. If it's "dedicated", like Nvidia RTX, tensor-like cores are or is it just assisted/accelerated by the GPU hardware, compute. "Dedicated" is the term in general Nvidia and the like are using for distinction, which could mean tree traversal or and denoising etc...etc..etc...with hardware used only for Ray Tracing specifically, exclusively. That's what are still waiting to find out with MS and Sony. Not to mention if it is "dedicated" what specific functionality does it have and how good is it...impact on performance and image quality. Looking for the term "dedicated"...no mention...so far. Right now, it could be a marketing checkbox spin.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
They say it’s hardware based, I.e dedicated cores, not hardware assisted
Pretty clear cut
Pretty clear cut
Stuart360
Member
Ray Tracing is still going to be hugely demanding whether they have dedicated RT hardware or not. The RTX cards have dedicated hardware, and you still see huge framerate drops when you turn on RT.
With the new consoles already targeting 4k in itself, imo they should of kept RT for the potential mid gen refreshes, or PS6/Xbox 5. Thats just me though.
With the new consoles already targeting 4k in itself, imo they should of kept RT for the potential mid gen refreshes, or PS6/Xbox 5. Thats just me though.
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BruceWayneIII
Member
What makes you think dedicated cores? I expect both Microsoft and SONY to have ray-tracing features built into the CUs, which makes it 'hardware accelerated' or 'hardware based'.
llien
Banned
I felt he was hard pressed into saying that. (I also cannot imagine AMD cooking up something so quickly, DXR was announced less than 2 years ago)
That being said, I don't see a problem with not having "dedicated hardware" for something, given how badly that "dedicated hardware" handles it.
Stuart360
Member
'Hardware based' to me makes it sound like they have dedicated RT hardware. 'Hardware Accellerated' to me sounds like no dedicated hardware, and they are just using the gpu to brute force RT. Kind of like how you can do RT on the 10 series cards now.
LED Guy?
Banned
Facts! It really is a clear cut as what Sony’s Mark Cerny already said, anyone who disagrees with it because of Oberon leak is a delusional Xbox fanboy.
BruceWayneIII
Member
I think the question is: is there anything in the hardware that specifically addresses ray-tracing? Both Microsoft and SONY confirmed that. Next question would be: how is that being implemented in hardware? We're still waiting for an answer.
chemical boy
Member
Klobrille is a PR from Microsoft.
From Klobrille
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Phil isnt dishonest. hes actually honest to a fault. i remember posting in threads earlier this gen about how he bought tomb raider exclusivity just because he needed something to compete with uncharted 4 which was originally set to release in holiday 2015. he even said something about how gaas is the future and how he essentially didnt care about single player games. i was like wtf but his supporters ate it up. of course, he ended up doing a 180 on it and bought a bunch of sp studios but at least he was honest, even if he was wrong.
i believe him when he says the xsex is 12 tflops.
cerny isnt a liar either. when he says rt is built in the gpu, i have no reason to doubt that.
Take the GAF and ResetEra meta to the proper community threads and get this one back on topic.
Right now.
www.neogaf.com
www.neogaf.com
Right now.
Meta GAF |ON| Gaf on Gaf
Recently I was viewing the bans list, and what do you know, our good friend Skyn3t has received his final ban. Often times I've wanted to discuss a recent ban, and typically I would just go to the thread containing the last post by the user in question. I figured we could probably use a thread...
ResetEra Discussion -- Stay civil. Don't get personal. Keep it in here.
How will the ship finish sinking? Let's find out. As before: keep it civil, don't get personal, and keep the Reset nonsense in here rather than letting it spill out to the rest of our forum. Carry on.
sonomamashine
Member
lol what is this ! you just added 15 unnecessary pages.
From Klobrille
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
SenjutsuSage
why do you believe MS when they said in the e3 video that ray tracing is hardware accelerated but dont believe the lead engineer of the ps5 when he says the same?also when the CEO goes up in front of hundreds of journalists and stands behind a infographic that claims the ray tracing is hardware based.
what would you like them to say exactly? right now, they have literally said exactly what MS has said. so what is it that they need to do that MS has NOT done to earn your trust?
Agnostic2020
Member
Ms farts in our General direction and he translates it as 27 tf for gpu with dedicated RT cores with 120 gb gddr9 like he did with zen and Vega for x1x. Sony literally talks about hardware RT 3 times specifically and he still says nope . They r lying
also when the CEO goes up in front of hundreds of journalists and stands behind a infographic that claims the ray tracing is hardware based.
what would you like them to say exactly? right now, they have literally said exactly what MS has said. so what is it that they need to do that MS has NOT done to earn your trust?
conclusion : don’t try to have logical argument with someone who argues in bad faith.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Ms farts in our General direction and he translates it as 27 tf for gpu with dedicated RT cores with 120 gb gddr9 like he did with zen and Vega for x1x. Sony literally talks about hardware RT 3 times specifically and he still says nope . They r lying
conclusion : don’t try to have logical argument with someone who argues in bad faith.
Which is funny bcus Sony usually does better in the hardware Dept launch consoles aligned. It's like when ppl harp about Microsoft being a software company yet ps4 os was way better than Xbox ones and also had dedicated chip for installs and downloads lol. Let's not even talk about shareplay and how gd tht is and how thy tried to make a version and it was some lame shit on mixer lol
If I trust anyone will have the better Rt solution it's definitely Sony with Cerny at the helm.
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Neo Blaster
Member
Damn, are we really going to begin another discussion on PS5 RT availability/implementation?
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
There's no ambiguity in either one unless you are console warring. Spencer said XSX is 2x One X when you do the math. Cerny said there is raytracing acceleration in the hardware. They surely would not lie about this, both statements are true.
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darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
That would be bad. That's Radeon Rays (feature of RDNA). That is just a compute solution. Hardware accelerated means dedicated cores that do nothing but calculate rays.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Klobrille is a data miner. He's not affiliated with Microsoft, he just scans their servers. But there's one bit in that leak that I didn't notice until now: It says the dev kit will just be based on Anaconda. There is no Lockhart devkit. So I suppose the process of scaling games to Lockhart is indeed fully automatic, you just build games for XSX and everything else is "magic" happening on Microsofts side.
You're kidding yourself if you think it's clear cut. There are many specifics yet to be seen. That could be a false assumption you posted...that "based" equals "dedicated". We don't know yet. We believe certain things right now, but "know" we don't...... yet.....for Sony or MS. When all, many of the RT technical details are released, then we will. I believe both Sony and MS will have "dedicated" RT, which how they perform could vary drastically, but I sure as hell don't know for sure if it is "dedicated" and neither do you....that I do know. You or anyone else not under NDA, engineers in the know etc...and people that do know can spin this many ways, parse words and summize technical details...until those details are known, released. Then when a real technical analysis can be performed. Besides, semantics and implementation will mean little if performance is terrible in the end. The bottom line will be the bottom line....we will see that unknown and that's exciting to see how it works for both Sony and MS. Wait and see.
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
To be fair, even on a high end card, ray tracing can be utter horse shit if done wrong. And we are coming from a generation where some games can’t even get the most basic of things right...
...we are all doomed.
...we are all doomed.
Neo Blaster
Member
Oh, God, RE is doing a poll whether next gen consoles should come with a controller.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
The amount of stupid in that forum amazes me each day.Oh, God, RE is doing a poll whether next gen consoles should come with a controller.
Adding to that they are actually discussing (for pages) whether consoles should come with controllers or not. L M F A O
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Oh, God, RE is doing a poll whether next gen consoles should come with a controller.
Next up paying for patches
oh waittttt
I think I saw a thread about tht already either here or there 
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Oh, God, RE is doing a poll whether next gen consoles should come with a controller.
Personally I have a lot of controllers and never use the stock controllers.
If they had a slightly cheaper option without a controller I am all in.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
From Klobrille
Yeah, from Klob. Here is the tweet original ( check the date - it is a before E3 2019 and he knew jack shit about PS5 ) :
His tweet was a response to a wired article just to calm down Xbox fans and to give them hope
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DeeDogg_
Banned
Calling that place a video game enthusiast forum is a disgrace to all existing video game enthusiast forums. It’s overrun my twitter retards and mods that try too hard to be funny. Can’t believe I’m saying this but...the 2017 site was better when it first launched. At least they still had an ounce of integrity leftOh, God, RE is doing a poll whether next gen consoles should come with a controller.
IkarugaDE
Member
Be carefully, such a comment startet the "no controller"-Discussion in RE
Neo Blaster
Member
Oh, man, please, don't you start it here...
DeeDogg_
Banned
Hawking Radiation
Member
Its almost Valentines Day and still radio silence on both PS5 and Xbox Series X.
Is Coronavirus causing some behind the scenes shit? Why is everyone quiet. Not at all worried though. Had a raging boner for PS5 reveal but since everyone has gone quiet, i've gone limp. I don't mind. I can wait until Sony feels me up again.
I'm out of lotion and tissue anyways.
Is Coronavirus causing some behind the scenes shit? Why is everyone quiet. Not at all worried though. Had a raging boner for PS5 reveal but since everyone has gone quiet, i've gone limp. I don't mind. I can wait until Sony feels me up again.
I'm out of lotion and tissue anyways.
That leak is decades old mate. Where've you been?
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DeeDogg_
Banned
Arguing about my favorite piece of plastic on ReeEra
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
FWIW: An RTX 2080 is 8.9 TF in normal mode and can boost for shorter periods to 10 TF. So yeah, of course both consoles will have a GPU faster than a 26 months old PC GPU.
PaintTinJr
Member
I don’t understand how people could have got RT so wrong on the internet to think that generalised software RT at 1080p@30fps and above is the inferior option to fixed functionality of a GPU – as the ‘dedicated’ functionality will be restricted by caveats that generalised software won’t, like comparing old H/W accelerated fixed path T&L to Programmable shaders. Flexibility is superior if all other targets like resolution and frame-rate are still met - unless I've missed a major development at some point.
As an example, this old youtube video used three original PS3 consoles using linux – so no acccess to the graphics card just the Cell - Gigabit hub and the IBM Interactive Ray Tracer. So we are probably looking at less than 1 TeraFLOP and 1.5GB memory in total to render this scene without dedicated RT cores – as the Cell additional cores are fully programmable hybrids, that have GPU styled efficiency in optimised micro workloads, but can still support general purpose CPU logic.
As an example, this old youtube video used three original PS3 consoles using linux – so no acccess to the graphics card just the Cell - Gigabit hub and the IBM Interactive Ray Tracer. So we are probably looking at less than 1 TeraFLOP and 1.5GB memory in total to render this scene without dedicated RT cores – as the Cell additional cores are fully programmable hybrids, that have GPU styled efficiency in optimised micro workloads, but can still support general purpose CPU logic.
Jtibh
Banned
So i said a week ago lets wait and see how this corona virus will develop.
As of yesterday the corona virus officialy surpassed sars and in much much shorter time.
And its still just getting worse.
China pumped billions into stocks just to save face on the market.
But nothing helped.
More and more cities provinces are under lockdown and foxconn is not allowed to open factories for another week or 2 but possibly another month if not more.
So most factories are shut and shipping is none existent at the moment.
I could write way more way longer but the point i am making is just like last time is that we can finally for sure expect that the new consoles will be delayed till 2021.
And even if we get them this year ,there will severe shortages for a while.
But i really dont care about the consoles for now , i want all the people in china to get healthy again and kick this asshole virus and the people responsible for it into the ground.
Edit: just saw pushsquare confirming this.
Well my backlog is long so i dont mind
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bitbydeath
Member
The notable part is that the specs are near identical which pretty much everyone has been saying aside from a few deflectors.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Even the majority tht said PS5 had the edge but thy always said slight. It lends credibility to those ps5 has the edge rumors from actual industry insiders
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
There's a tiny difference between using raytracing to light a simple object at low speeds and having an entire game environment that you have to shoot rays into. And Nvidias RTX cores are 25 times more powerful than doing the same task on GPGPU. Because that's all they are doing, just calculating rays.
PaintTinJr
Member
The RT in the previous video doesn’t sell the RT, but the video below which also ran on a single PS3 Cell using linux ran between 0.5 & 3 frames per second in full hd (iirc).
PaintTinJr
Member
I didn’t mean to suggest they were the same - but completely understand inhindsight that the videos do sort of imply that. I was merely referring to the end result.
Assuming the PS5 and/or XsX can real-time RT games the same as a RTX 2080 hopefully(for example) as comparative frame-rates and resolution and bounces, surely it is better if they have more flexibility to improve the algorithms over the generation, than be tied to more restrictive fast-path functionality for the whole generation, no?
Unlike a graphics card manufacturer, Sony and Microsoft will have to live with their hardware choices for at least 5years.
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Self High Five
Member
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Regarding devs always get spec sheet earlier, even before first version of devkits are out. Here is what Matt said :
www.resetera.com
Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”
I seriously doubt they delay release unless something out of their control goes very wrong. On the subject of the dev kit situation I just remembered Phil's comments in the Eurogamer X019 interview: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-15-the-big-xo19-interview-xbox-boss-phil-spencer...
www.resetera.com
Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
So i said a week ago lets wait and see how this corona virus will develop.
As of yesterday the corona virus officialy surpassed sars and in much much shorter time.
And its still just getting worse.
China pumped billions into stocks just to save face on the market.
But nothing helped.
More and more cities provinces are under lockdown and foxconn is not allowed to open factories for another week or 2 but possibly another month if not more.
So most factories are shut and shipping is none existent at the moment.
I could write way more way longer but the point i am making is just like last time is that we can finally for sure expect that the new consoles will be delayed till 2021.
And even if we get them this year ,there will severe shortages for a while.
But i really dont care about the consoles for now , i want all the people in china to get healthy again and kick this asshole virus and the people responsible for it into the ground.
Edit: just saw pushsquare confirming this.
Well my backlog is long so i dont mind
you realize that China isn't the only source for manufacturing PS5 $ Sex .. I think Sony and MS took their precautions and will proceed the production in Vietnam but each device will increase its manufacturing cost for sure
Shmunter
Member
Paints him in a light of glory you mean
Self High Five
Member
Regarding devs always get spec sheet earlier, even before first version of devkits are out. Here is what Matt said :
Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”
I seriously doubt they delay release unless something out of their control goes very wrong. On the subject of the dev kit situation I just remembered Phil's comments in the Eurogamer X019 interview: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-15-the-big-xo19-interview-xbox-boss-phil-spencer...
This is common sense and is a shame you have to point it out. As I stated earlier in a previous post, Jeuxvideo back in Feb 2019 leaked the same target specs that Windows Central late last year. The notion that Sony or MS are trying to 'surprise' eachother with devkits is so stupid.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
TSMC has no fabs in Vietnam, just Taiwan and China for the required die sizes. Samsung has no fabs in Vietnam, just Korea and China for the NAND chips. So the NAND availability and prices and the APU availability will for sure be influenced by the virus if it keeps spreading. There is no replacement.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Jeuxvideo was going by a Reddit post that we talked about earlier, a leak that put PS5 at 8 TF.
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