Digital Foundry: Ninja Gaiden 2 Black - PS5/PS5 Pro/Xbox Series X|S, PC - A Classic Reborn?
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
- UE5 w/ Lumen and Nanite and a 120fps target
- Limb severing system returns, was removed in the Sigma release
- The enemy count seems to be closer to Sigma 2 than the higher count in the OG NG2
- Looks notably better than OG X360 release but DF thinks in some parts the OG version stands out (eg the striking skybox in the opening level)
- New version uses combo of Lumen and SSR for reflections
- Shadows can appear as noisy dithered artifacts
- Modern lighting techniques gives some scenes different kind of intensity
- Detail streaming issues noted on all devices in the new version
- The gameplay engine under the UE5 graphics is the same as Sigma 2
- PS5/SX/Pro offer 60 or 120fps optiosn
- 60fps targets DRS 4K, 120fps targets 1080p
- Series S has a single 1080p mode
- PS5 Pro is sharper than the other console versions while Series S's low resolution has lowest IQ
- Lumen lighting can cause visible ghosting on all versions
- Visually, the 60fps mode on all consoles looks basically identical and 120fps mode looks identical to Series S (albeit with higher frame rate)
- In 120hz mode, no version holds 120fps locked with the pecking order: Pro>PS5>SX
- DF does not recommend the 120hz mode because of the hit to IQ
- 60fps mode sees all consoles (even Series S) locked to 60fps
- PS5 Pro has sharper IQ but no other visual / settings difference over other versions
- One real time cut-scenes shows drops on all consoles with the order being Pro>PS5>SX>SS
- PC version has a lot of setting optons, DLSS, XeSS have been added to the PC Win store version now
- DLSS produces the best results
- PC version has option to toggle hardware Lumen (console only uses Software)
- Hardware Lumen is supposedly more accurate but traced scene is missing a lot of detail and artifacts
- DF recommends sticking with the default Software lumen
- Frame gen options are here but they don't work properly, visible judder and lack of fluidity
- PC version is quite heavy on the CPU with mild stutters
- A patch announced should fix some issues, DF hopes
- Limb severing system returns, was removed in the Sigma release
- The enemy count seems to be closer to Sigma 2 than the higher count in the OG NG2
- Looks notably better than OG X360 release but DF thinks in some parts the OG version stands out (eg the striking skybox in the opening level)
- New version uses combo of Lumen and SSR for reflections
- Shadows can appear as noisy dithered artifacts
- Modern lighting techniques gives some scenes different kind of intensity
- Detail streaming issues noted on all devices in the new version
- The gameplay engine under the UE5 graphics is the same as Sigma 2
- PS5/SX/Pro offer 60 or 120fps optiosn
- 60fps targets DRS 4K, 120fps targets 1080p
- Series S has a single 1080p mode
- PS5 Pro is sharper than the other console versions while Series S's low resolution has lowest IQ
- Lumen lighting can cause visible ghosting on all versions
- Visually, the 60fps mode on all consoles looks basically identical and 120fps mode looks identical to Series S (albeit with higher frame rate)
- In 120hz mode, no version holds 120fps locked with the pecking order: Pro>PS5>SX
- DF does not recommend the 120hz mode because of the hit to IQ
- 60fps mode sees all consoles (even Series S) locked to 60fps
- PS5 Pro has sharper IQ but no other visual / settings difference over other versions
- One real time cut-scenes shows drops on all consoles with the order being Pro>PS5>SX>SS
- PC version has a lot of setting optons, DLSS, XeSS have been added to the PC Win store version now
- DLSS produces the best results
- PC version has option to toggle hardware Lumen (console only uses Software)
- Hardware Lumen is supposedly more accurate but traced scene is missing a lot of detail and artifacts
- DF recommends sticking with the default Software lumen
- Frame gen options are here but they don't work properly, visible judder and lack of fluidity
- PC version is quite heavy on the CPU with mild stutters
- A patch announced should fix some issues, DF hopes
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RetroGamingUK
Member
Apart from the lighting on the city scene at the beginning it's a vast improvement.
Gorgeous game.
Gorgeous game.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Gorgeous in some ways, but issues like the dithering on hair etc is pretty obvious.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Largely unnoticeable, apart from the Series S version where image quality looks dreadful.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ehhhhh .. I wouldn't say that. Even on SX, where it's targeting DRS 4K, the dithering on the chick's hair right in the intro is very obvious.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What??
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Going by the video, the hardware lumen is kinda broken.
More artifacts, reflections are missing a lot of detail etc.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
He barely shows the differences outsides debug view. -_-'
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Curious how he didnt mention internal resolutions.
I wonder why.
I wonder why.
Timberwolf25
Member
I would consider that the definitive version unless TN patches the Black version to at least match the enemy count and difficulty. If you go back and comparte OG NG1 to NG1 Black, there was a ton of improvements. NG2 Black hasn't earned that badge if you go by that update.
Horseganador
Member
Another one that seems to run better on PS5...although really that 120fps mode in UE5 is too much for all consoles.
NeverYouMind
Member
And yet it still runs the best version: BC Program Enhanced Ninja Gaiden II.Series S is such a garbage console. John considers it to have almost worse image quality than the original 360 version and it has big frame rate drops in the cutscenesBut at least it holds to 60fps during gameplay.
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DanielG165
Gold Member
The Series S version looks rough here, sadly, but it also isn't too surprising to me. NG2 Black is a beast to run, definitely one of the most graphically intensive games of this year and the last. Haven't tried it on my PC yet, but the Series X churns NG2 Black out just fine at 60 fps. Really impressive that the "premium" consoles are all running this at 4K as well (upscaled or otherwise).
thatJohann
Member
Does this game have an Easy mode?
kevboard
Member
Series S is such a garbage console. John considers it to have almost worse image quality than the original 360 version and it has big frame rate drops in the cutscenes
it has worse imagine quality because they use UE5, the worst graphics engine ever made, and one that is used as a crutch by developers who don't want to put in the work to properly light their game.
Lumen is a cancer, and should be called out as such.
Shifty1897
Member
Nice win for the PS5 Pro
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Yes it does. You should be able to choose the easier difficulty in the beginning if i remember correctly( the difficulty up above the default Warrior difficulty). Honestly though, the game feels a little easier to me than the original so far and I'm near the end of it. Then again, I played tons of this game on all platforms many times so maybe that's why.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Not reallyAnd yet it still runs the best version: BC Program Enhanced Ninja Gaiden II.
There's another video coming on it which might detail this stuff. Possibly an Alex one though.
thatJohann
Member
I've never played it and I'm really bad at hard games. Do you think I should avoid this then?
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Again PS5 performing better than Series X.
Pro is best of course.
Edit: Series X hardware is garbage
Pro is best of course.
Edit: Series X hardware is garbage
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Again PS5 performing better than Series X.
Pro is best of course.
Edit: Series X hardware is garbage
Dude, this is getting a bit crazy now. God knows how the mods are letting you get away with posts like these.
Try to wind it back a bit but I've reported this post because you're going too far now.
VenomousCoffee
Member
I'm playing on Easy mode (Hero Mode, I think it's called?), and I haven't died yet (and I'm almost 50 and was never really good at these games even when I was younger) even though I'm almost halfway through, I think. If your health bar gets down to the bottom, you literally become invincible/it blocks and dodges for you (this might be on a limited timer, but if so I haven't hit the end yet). Even with that, I'm having a blast and feeling motivated to try it again on Normal.
Timberwolf25
Member
There are some tutorial vids on yt that are spoiler free. I'd start on the 2nd easiest difficulty to begin with.
Do the first area, but don't give up on it even if you die a few times as you'll improve rapidly as you wrap your mind around the combat system.
It's very much worth the effort
Bojji
Member
He is not exactly saying anything untrue here. Many games underperform on Xbox. "Garbage" is strong word but for sure this is not how 12TF RDNA2 hardware should perform (worse than 10TF GPU).
SweetTooth
Gold Member
SweetTooth
Gold Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Well, if the xbox is garbage and performs a few frames less than a ps5. Does that make the ps5 trash? And the ps5 pro leftovers?
If he agrees with that sentiment, we can let it fly
It's performing pretty much as expected I tried to have these conversations before hand
40 CU 9.75 TFLOPs RX 5700 XT vs 64 CU 12.6 TFLOPs RX Vega 64 ( Different architectures but probably the best way to compare PS5 & Xbox SX for now)
Why RX 5700 XT vs RX Vega 64 & not RX 590 vs RX Vega 64? My reason for this is because RX 590 is ROP limited with 32 ROPs while RX 5700 XT has the same 64 ROPs as the RX Vega 64. RX 5700 XT is a newer architecture & benefit from that but at the same time I'm comparing it to the RX Vega 64 &...
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Series X has bigger chip 52CU (more expensive) a 320bit bus and less yields (more expensive) weird Ram setup. Higher clocked CPU (constant) and YETWell, if the xbox is garbage and performs a few frames less than a ps5. Does that make the ps5 trash? And the ps5 pro leftovers?
If he agrees with that sentiment, we can let it fly
Loses out to a cheaper, masterfully designed PS5 with 36CUs and 256bit bus and balanced clockes for maximum efficiency.
It never happened ever a console performs less than paper specs except with Series X
It's not less than it's paper specs PS5 has straight forward rendering advantages because of the higher clock rate ,
If games are pushed one way PS5 win if it's pushed another way Xbox Series X win.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yes, and they clocked it lower for efficiency and it's back fired.
The xbox isn't garbage but Cerny was given the assignment and he delivered. Schooling xbox design team along the way.
It doesn't make the xbox garbage, just not as well designed as the ps5.
The ps5 is huge though, but sony took a gamble that no one would care that they made a hideous monstrosity and that bet paid off. People truly don't care what it looks like, slightly noisier and slightly less efficient with more performance. I would take that option.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
SKYF@ll
Member
DF "PS5 Pro has sharper IQ but no other visual / settings difference over other versions."
Something John didn't notice was that the detail in the Nanite seems to be of slightly higher quality on the PS5 Pro.
* I've marked the most obvious differences, but there are a few other smaller ones as well.
Something John didn't notice was that the detail in the Nanite seems to be of slightly higher quality on the PS5 Pro.
* I've marked the most obvious differences, but there are a few other smaller ones as well.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
DF "PS5 Pro has sharper IQ but no other visual / settings difference over other versions."
Something John didn't notice was that the detail in the Nanite seems to be of slightly higher quality on the PS5 Pro.
* I've marked the most obvious differences, but there are a few other smaller ones as well.
Not sure that's nanite you're pointing at.
The game also has streaming issues in places on all versions, seems more likely one of those.
Bojji
Member
It's performing pretty much as expected I tried to have these conversations before hand
40 CU 9.75 TFLOPs RX 5700 XT vs 64 CU 12.6 TFLOPs RX Vega 64 ( Different architectures but probably the best way to compare PS5 & Xbox SX for now)
Why RX 5700 XT vs RX Vega 64 & not RX 590 vs RX Vega 64? My reason for this is because RX 590 is ROP limited with 32 ROPs while RX 5700 XT has the same 64 ROPs as the RX Vega 64. RX 5700 XT is a newer architecture & benefit from that but at the same time I'm comparing it to the RX Vega 64 &...www.neogaf.com
RDNA is much more efficient so no wonder that lower TF part wins here.
But with PS5 and Xbox we have more or less the same architecture so differences should be smaller. Most games perform ~the same, some perform better on Xbox but there is this increasing number of games that win on PS5.
Infamous "tools" have to play some role here, Xbox hardware is inefficient despite (some) advantages, maybe Api as well? Or it could be that games are just designed around PS5 so all those aspects that make Xbox weaker on paper drag performance down in this version using the same settings.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Hair jank is like a Team Ninja calling card. Hard to be upset about that.