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Alan Wake 2 reportedly runs at 840p 60 FPs on the PS5 Pro; Remedy responds, no confirmation, more details coming
Mahavastu
Member
not likely.
As long as Pssr does not do miracles the 800p would just be too low.
Alan Wake2 is one of the games which should be highly profit from the stronger ray tracing on the Pro, such bringing already way better image quality without sacrificing resolution that much.
hmm, no idea, but for example "Horizon Zero Dawn" and "ghost of tsushima" had already pretty good foliage on the PS4.
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MisterXDTV
Member
DLAA is even more taxing on GPUs than native resolution....
It's basically AI Supersampling AA
So I don't even know why you posted it
But again, you don't get the point
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Bojji
Member
PC players that target 4k never use resolutions below 1080p base (so dlss performance). 1080p->DLSS->4k is the lowest acceptable reconstruction. For 1080p and 1440p screens lower resolutions can still be good, but guess what resolution PS5 Pro targets? 4K.
2070 SUPER (and it is few % slower than PS5 in the end). Pro is weaker than 4070
Sadly, they do...
Xbox one X was ACTUALLY that much faster, teraflops or not - even more so if you include IPC gains from GCN 1.0 to Polaris (1.3?). Sony themselves say that they have 67% more compute units. They don't even touch that bullshit AMD 2x teraflops:
At least they are honest about this...
720 -> DLSS -> 4K doesn't look good.
I don't care about MS and their stupidity.
What I would like is Pro for 500-600 Euro and base model getting cheaper. You know, like every console generation before this one?
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SegaSnatcher
Member
But it's exactly what Cerny promised, "almost" Fidelity like graphics at 60 fps and this is probably a quick patch but by replacing FSR with PSSR the image quality is getting a huge boostalso to make another point DF said don't expect any game at 30 to go to 60 but here we are with numerous examples already so obviously the 45% rendering number isn't the whole story...
Just throwing PSSR will be a nice image improvement regarding image quality, but there is no reason why the better GPU couldn't boost the native res at least to 1080p. Unless they are adding extra graphical effects it makes no sense why its the same low resolution.
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SegaSnatcher
Member
Alan Wake already had a 60fps performance mode on base PS5, what are you talking about?
kevboard
Member
I am playing PC games on a 1440p screen. DLSS quality mode at 1440p is 960p, and looks absolutely fine. balanced mode which is around 800p or so is still ok.
performance mode has zero raytracing. the current consoles don't even have raytracing in quality mode because it would have been too taxing
sure, but you really have to remember that 45% more rasterisation perfomance is not a lot. comparing it to other games/engines isn't helpful here. you have to look how it runs on PS5 and Series X.
and on these systems it runs at 1506x847 (with regular framedrops)
even if they were to put all of the 45% GPU power increase into resolution alone, we would end up at roughly 1813x1020. by adding higher quality effects, more foliage, higher draw distances etc. you can imagine that this 1020p resolution that they COULD reach, goes down bit by bit for everything extra they are adding.
any PC player knows this conundrum. "do I play at native res and medium shadows? or should I play with DLSS quality mode and high shadows? maybe DLSS Balanced and everything to high?"
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PaintTinJr
Member
Given how the PSSR algorithm works - described in the patent - we know there is zero way DF can pixel count PSSR images correctly.
So the bigger story here IMO is who provided this information without context and for what purpose, seems like it is part of a paid targeted campaign to discredit the Pro like one of our very well informed insiders said is playing out.
So the bigger story here IMO is who provided this information without context and for what purpose, seems like it is part of a paid targeted campaign to discredit the Pro like one of our very well informed insiders said is playing out.
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Devs need to straighten out their priorities
AngelMuffin
Member
I’ve never been a PC gamer, but I think it’s time.
Crispy Gamer
Member
I mean maybe
but it's rendering a higher quality image at 60fps that's a nice trade off and it's exactly what's being pitched I would hate to see an Xbox one x situation where devs feel pressured to up the resolution just because it's so much more powerful and then performance suffer as a direct result.
Mister Wolf
Member
You won't regret it. Especially when you see how much cheaper the new games are.
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kevboard
Member
usually you can spot the "real" resolution by looking at recently disoccluded parts of the image, by looking at the first frame after a camera cut, or due to some elements of the image not being scaled up.
not sure what about PSSR would be different here
SegaSnatcher
Member
I mean maybe
PSSR doesn't cost 45% extra rasterization. Again, if the graphical settings are exactly the same it makes no sense why this can't be 1080p 60fps internal upscaled to 1440p/4K. Upscaling from a higher internal res will always look better.
PSSR is simply the bare minimum we should expect, ideally Devs should also take advantage of the overall better GPU and Ram setup as well.
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AngelMuffin
Member
Yeah, both my sons have PCs so I get to hear all about it. They can’t wait to build a PC for me.
Senua
Gold Member
I posted it because you're right that most people don't use straight native 4k with TAA anymore as it's a waste of resources, but they use native 4k with DLAA to get super pristine IQ.DLAA is even more taxing on GPUs than native resolution....
It's basically AI Supersampling AA
So I don't even know why you posted it
But again, you don't get the point
It's really that simple
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So there's something wrong.
It's the same resolution of the PS5 performance mode which makes no sense if they're utilizing the system given the much more powerful GPU.
It would mean at this point their patch is a barebone PSRR support thrown in or there's something wrong with the analysis.
In either case it seems it's something Remedy should comment on.
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RickMasters
Member
This is why I never expected much from PS5 pro. Seems to have the same probablem, that last gens mid cycle upgrades had…… once again it’s gonna hamstrung by the CPU.
This suddenly seems more expensive for what it is, now…….
PaintTinJr
Member
Silhouette edges and curvature will all be rendered at the native destination resolution in PSSR, only the holes will be inferred or predicted. So no, absolutely dreamland BS if they claim they can pixel count 840p in an image that had had all the detail rendered at 1440p or 2160p and then filled in difficult holes with inference meaning those will exceed 1080p anyway, and then the final low detail areas are (lancoz) predicted from the native and inferred data, which again won't provide 840p that you could bet your life on.
This info was definitely sourced with someone with an agenda IMO, especially when 840p native in DLSS terms is much lower quality than 840p in PSSR terms,
SegaSnatcher
Member
Most games are not CPU limited so in most cases its irrelevant.
Senua
Gold Member
So ya think DF are lying or?
SegaSnatcher
Member
Correct, but initially you said it was limited to 30fps on base PS5.
The problem is Rememdy chose the lazy route and just replaced FSR2 with PSSR.
Sure, it will be a better upscale, but it could look so much better if they fully utilized Pro's performance advantages.
Zathalus
Member
Oh damn, I’m twitter famous. Or at least my notes are.
saintjules
Gold Member
It's crazy how people can't get past that, right?
They want it, just can't afford it. That's okay too.
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Zathalus
Member
People legitimately think this. Despite Sony sending them the ProRes file to analyze. And despite it being extremely trivial for Sony to correct them if they got anything wrong.
kevboard
Member
some upscalers deliberately keep recently disoccluded areas nearly untouched because it reduces artifacts like shimmering and ghosting. Dark Souls Remastered did this, where recently disoccluded parts of the image used a nearest neighbour scaler (iirc) because it completely sidestepped obvious reconstruction motion artifacts and made the image look deceivingly like a true 1800p
there are absolutely ways to find the original resolution if the conditions are correct.
I have not seen the video yet as it's still patreon exclusive currently, maybe they explain how they got the pixel counts.
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SegaSnatcher
Member
Honestly, I would be pretty annoyed if most devs just replaced FSR2 with PSSR and did nothing else, especially for games with sub 1080 internal resolutions. This is more acceptable for games upscaling from 1440p internal resolutions, but only so much you can do with 720p/800p internal resolutions. PSSR isn't even as good as DLSS 2.0 from what we are hearing.
Zathalus
Member
I do remember them stating several times in the video that it was surprisingly easy for them to pixel count PSSR footage. I can’t really recall why though and don’t want to sit through the whole 2 hour video again.
Bojji
Member
Hate for DF is so strong that it blocks any logic.
Developers are lazy. I think PS4 pro proved it beyond any doubt, there are some games released years after console launch that don't have ANY upgrade on PS4 pro vs. PS4.
PaintTinJr
Member
Not in PSSR, that's the whole point of them using holes in their algorithm.
Even if DLSS will equal PSSR in stills, PSSR is higher resolution because the end picture has at least 25% of pixels rendered fully at native resolution and they are from the areas that provide the detail in motion which exposes scaling. Motion resolution on PSSR will be superior and continue to get better because of the sophistication of the algorithm compared to the rest.
At this early stage there is no way they can know native resolutions without having a source at Sony or Remedy with an agenda against the Pro, and the more you suggest they can pixel count the more obvious it is how people don't understand the patent.
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kevboard
Member
kevboard
Member
Senua
Gold Member
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Are we sure this isn’t the Xbox 360 version?
PaintTinJr
Member
So you are saying Ms aren't throwing money into this wave of negative Pro coverage like HeisenbergFX4 stated in the other thread?
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kevboard
Member
I typically don't believe extraordinary claims without evidence.
also, if the numbers stated by DF are accurate, does it matter where they got them from? their videos are mainly to inform customers, which they do in this case.
but without watching their video myself, listening to what they say about counting pixels in PSSR games, I can't judge either way...
but if I hear the clacking of hooves around a street corner I expect to find horses there not zebras... is it impossible that someone is walking a zebra through the streets? no... but it would be weird to expect zebras without looking first you know?
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
60 fps for all that riveting gameplay of AW2.
Zathalus
Member
The patent in question:you know that what you say there sounds... like... crazy, right?
COMPUTER-IMPLEMENTED METHOD FOR COMPLETING AN IMAGE - SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT EUROPE LTD
The present disclosure relates to a computer-implemented method for completing an image, the method comprising the steps of dividing data of an image to be completed into a plurality of image portions
www.freepatentsonline.com
No evidence it has anything to do with PSSR considering the word upscale or aliasing are not found anywhere in the patent. Virtual Reality is mentioned quite often and actually reading the text of the patent it appears to refer VR applications.
It also clearly does not match the footage shown by DF which has all the hallmarks of a temporal upscaler, including ghosting and motion artifacts.
PaintTinJr
Member
You sound like an astroturfer for them if you are suggesting Neogaf HeisenbergFX4 isn't a good enough source.
The number how it was sourced is very much a question of motivation and bias/credibility of DF IMO, but even if it wasn't. The context they are using doesn't inform anyone, because 99% of those listening are technically less knowledgeable than DF, and as DF are showing they don't understand the PSSR technology are intentionally using it out of context ... which is what most cynical people would expect of DF if they are shilling
Senua
Gold Member
Ridiculous post with ridiculous claims. Are you really expecting to be taken seriously?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Fun fact:
720p upscaled to 4K due to even pixel dividing looks far better than you would expect.
Not saying it looks great, but 720p with an excellent upscaler can look better than you’d expect.
PSSR might do a good job.
720p upscaled to 4K due to even pixel dividing looks far better than you would expect.
Not saying it looks great, but 720p with an excellent upscaler can look better than you’d expect.
PSSR might do a good job.
Bojji
Member
I don't think people expect 720p games from their 800 Euro console...
TehGoomba7s
Member
It's insane that a forum once heralded for enthusiasts has been reduced to reddit level trolling and outrage for clicks.
40fps feels closer to 60fps than to 30fps. Have you try it? I prefer 60fps of course but it's not practically 30fps. So digital froundy is wrong when they tested those 40fps at first and you are right?
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Senua
Gold Member
DLSS ultra performance (720p) looks bad on my 4k set.