Pulisic lost tens of millions 15 minutes ago.
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American Soccer |OT2| Party Like It's 1999.
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Nagbe's going to be like 32 at that point. Team needs to just start over from scratch.
He's probably still going to be sold for millions and millions, but Yedlin definitely just lost out on a huge contract. As did Wood.
Skellig Gra
Member
Seriously, Qatar is what 5 years away? We have no need for anyone over 24-25 at the point.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
yep.
we have nothing to gain from playing anyone over 25. nothing at all.
fifa ranking? who gives a fuck.
world cup? lolololol
literally play the kids.
Exactly. Start the midfield with Pulisic and Adams and build out from there.
LyleLanley
Banned
Has everyone been fired yet?
Skellig Gra
Member
That Twellman hot take. Hes completely right. Gulati is the main scapegoat IMO.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Man that segment by Twellman was gold. I'm usually not a fan of him but he was great there.
NihonTiger90
Member
Yep. U.S. still has a lot of older dead weight it needs to shed. And the entire USSF leadership group needs to resign. Tonight.
But then again, this embarrassment might also be what pisses enough people with the potential to effect change off to get them off their asses doing something.
The entire back line is basically the same guys we had four years ago. It's bullshit and it's come back to bite us a few times over the last two years.
uncredited male
Member
Maybe the USSF will pull SUM's hand out of their ass. Or maybe SUM will just take over fully.
VendettaRed07
Member
Garber needs to step down.
MLS does not give a fuck about the quality of our players and development
Its about season tickets, selling jerseys and corporate bullshit. We need a complete overhaul of this league and what we even care about.
It doesnt make any fucking sense how we managed to develop better players when the games clock counted down to zero, out goalies wore baseball caps and we took fucking hockey shoot outs and didnt have draws.
We were better when our best players played in the fucking Scottish league. Instead we buy up all our talent, give them 8m dollar salaries and surround them with players that make 2.5m between all of them. And then are surprised when they cant complete a fucking pass for the national team.
Fuck this.
MLS does not give a fuck about the quality of our players and development
Its about season tickets, selling jerseys and corporate bullshit. We need a complete overhaul of this league and what we even care about.
It doesnt make any fucking sense how we managed to develop better players when the games clock counted down to zero, out goalies wore baseball caps and we took fucking hockey shoot outs and didnt have draws.
We were better when our best players played in the fucking Scottish league. Instead we buy up all our talent, give them 8m dollar salaries and surround them with players that make 2.5m between all of them. And then are surprised when they cant complete a fucking pass for the national team.
Fuck this.
NihonTiger90
Member
Sounds a lot like the problem with my Crew.
But yeah, they have to start giving these young guys a shot. The clock starts again tonight and every second that rolls past is a second you're not making the moves to make yourself a better team. You don't wait until 2021 to start these changes.
Hell yes on the development thing. In Columbus, our best American players are leaving to go play for other national teams that aren't even making it to the final qualifying rounds of their tournaments. The rest of the Americans aren't even on the team.
Twellman was on point. Not sure how many of you have kids or are around kids in high level youth soccer. You can literally watch the creativity get coached right out of the kids. We have more kids paying $1000+ a year to play soccer than Trinidad has people. Yet we couldn't even tie them.
Our best CB is injured, our second best was on the bench.
We're playing a nobody instead of Fabian Johnson at LB.
Edit: Also, we play Michael Bradley on an island in front of those crummy backs.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
can we just throw infinite amount of money at pep? i'm sure we have it considering ticket prices
You're missing the fact that the rest of the region got better around us, largely because of MLS. Most of these teams have a lot of starters that play in the league and without it would wind up playing bullshit games in their crappy domestic leagues. The US is definitely better than back then, but everyone else saw way more improvement as a result of MLS than we have.
Part of the issue is we let the team age up and didn't do enough bloodletting after the last world cup. We should have started integrating younger players right after the cup ended, instead most of the team looked exactly the same.
The backline especially got way too fucking old. Outside of Yedlin everyone's like 30, where's the younger defenders? Miazga was able to put guys like David Villa in his back pocket at age 19 in MLS and went to Europe where he now starts for a championship team that won in large part because of his defending. We gave him one game in the Gold Cup this year. That's it.
That's not even going into how streaky our strikers are. When Jozy is on he's amazing, but when he's off he's invisible. Wood's even worse. Then there's guys like Agudelo, who are talented, but have the same damn issue.
100% there's younger guys out there right now that could have helped this team to a win or a draw, but none of them saw any real minutes under Arena or Klinsmann. The next coach needs to be willing to call those guys up and give them real minutes, not just 45 in a game we don't need to win.
Man, I completely forgot about Brooks. He's been injured so much during the Hex he may as well have not even existed.
aronnov reborn
Banned
Can't wait to hear from the players. I mean a couple weeks ago they were throwing a fit because Alexi Lalas was saying mean things about them..
how about now?
HOT GARBAGE!
how about now?
HOT GARBAGE!
perfectchaos007
Member
Defund US mens soccer, and give that money to the US womens team. Its time they get their due
Twellmans rant is whatever. It's all stuff we've heard before although he delivers it well, I'll give him that.
I said it after Brazil, after the 2015 Gold Cup failure and I'll say it again. There needs to be more young players brought into the senior side to challenge the established vets. Bradley, Howard, Altidore, etc. These guys should be looking over their shoulders at the next gen and having to compete every day to keep their job. The only guy who had that happen this cycle was Dempsey and only because he had like a life-threarening condition and then Pulisic forced Klinsi/Arena to keep him in the lineup because he was so damn good. If it wasn't for that the whole team is basically identical to the team we brought to Brazil over 3 years ago. Even fucking Wondo is still on the squad, for christsakes. It's a goddamn joke.
I said it after Brazil, after the 2015 Gold Cup failure and I'll say it again. There needs to be more young players brought into the senior side to challenge the established vets. Bradley, Howard, Altidore, etc. These guys should be looking over their shoulders at the next gen and having to compete every day to keep their job. The only guy who had that happen this cycle was Dempsey and only because he had like a life-threarening condition and then Pulisic forced Klinsi/Arena to keep him in the lineup because he was so damn good. If it wasn't for that the whole team is basically identical to the team we brought to Brazil over 3 years ago. Even fucking Wondo is still on the squad, for christsakes. It's a goddamn joke.
1000% this. There was no goddamned reason for this team to look exactly the same two cycles in a row. There's younger guys out there who frankly deserved a shot but never got one. Both Klinsmann and Arena made the same damn mistake and people talking like one of them had it right.
Look at the German team. They won a World Cup then immediately started integrating younger players and looking for fresh blood.
VendettaRed07
Member
We need to grovel and beg for a permanent pan American Copa. Axe the gold cup. Or at least one of them.
I think you should stop coming up with money-printing ideas that will save Gulati's job.
uncredited male
Member
We have no control over the Gold Cup.
VendettaRed07
Member
All good points.
Fuck me. I just cant even deal with this. I cant believe how long the wait is going to be for another shot at this.
I put this on the coaching more than anything else. No one integrated young players after the last cycle ended. This is what happens to teams that get too old: they don't qualify. The only thing Gulati could have done, that he should have, is fire Klinsmann after the first Gold Cup fiasco and give the next guy (not Arena) time to bring in some fresher faces.
Hell, fuck it. From now on no coach should be given more than one cycle. I don't care if they win it all. Unless they're willing to blow it all up and start over after each WC they need to go. The team can't be allowed to be this old ever again.
But Gulati chose Arena.
And how much do you want to bet that USSF meddled with roster decisions to maximize marketing/MLS exposure? Remember, Don Garber is on the USSF board.
Edit: As a Mets fan, there is a certain hopelessness when the people at the top of the organization are full of fuckery.
VendettaRed07
Member
I dont think its just for money. A pan American tournament would make the competition more interesting and take some of the sting away from missing the WC. Also give some teams that might never qualify for the World Cup in our federation a bigger tournament to possibly play in. Getting to play the better South American teams in competitive matches outside the WC would help us gauge our development and bring more money into all the programs; not just ours
That's a bullshit excuse. Most of our younger players play in MLS anyway. Omar plays in freaking Mexico! Having young MLS guys play for the national team would be a marketing win, the older guys are already a known thing, but imagine being able to advertise that your local 18 year old midfielder scored the winning goal in a Gold Cup match. It'd be a marketing guy's dream scenario!
Klinsmann should have been fired six months earlier than he was, by the time Gulati saw the light it was too late to rebuild the squad for qualifying. Gulati deserves a ton of blame, but most of it is for not doing what needed to be done when it needed to be done.
Mexico might go through too many coaches, but at least they're willing to swing the axe.
VendettaRed07
Member
Didnt even think of that, but I totally believe it
Fuck our DP system. I 100% believe that given how much money MLS dumps in Jozy, Bradley, etc that they were absolutely forced and not allowed to be dropped no matter how shit they played.
Who do you replace Bradley and Jozy with? Wood? Dax? They're even worse and I say that as a guy who loves Dax.
If anything the salary cap is a benefit since it forces teams to use younger players and develop them properly. The national team just refuses to take advantage of that pipeline.
Horvath
Hyndman
Danny Williams
Horvath
Miazga (why the fuck did Miazga only play one game in the Gold Cup?)
Gooch
Saief
And there are more foreign players who aren't cap-tied like CCV and Jonathan Gonzalez.
These are all guys I would have 100% played at some point in the cycle, that said there's a ton of guys that still play in MLS that never even got a real look. Fuck, Miazga should be a starter at this point given what he's accomplished after leaving RBNY. Hell, he should have gotten a call up to a friendly or two back when he still played with us.
EDIT: I'd argue the only guy on that list who got a serious look was Danny Williams and he didn't exactly light the world on fire.
Skellig Gra
Member
Dont forget Horvath
Dont forget Horvath
I'll never forget Horvath after watching Howard get destroyed by offensive juggernaut Omar Gonzalez tonight
VendettaRed07
Member
Idk who they would replace them with. But at the same time, I totally believe theres sketchy stuff going on.
Also, for me its our salary distribution. We could theroetically surround our young players given there are a limited number of international spots with better players from better leagues around the world so the kids who do get time play with real players instead of just kicking and running and not playing in a system surrounded by players that translates to constructive international play
Instead of giving one player 8-10m, bringing in maybe 7-10 guys making 500-800k each from elsewhere and have them play with our young players would instantly improve the quality of play in the league imo. Wed have trouble retaining some players because we wouldnt be able to massively overpay in order to keep them, but maybe we should operate more like the leagues in Europe that are like that as well, as it seems to work for them.
Basically, maybe it was better when we couldn't afford our best players. Bradley was playing well making about a million a year in Serie A.. We then quintupled his salary to bring him back in his 20s. Maybe it's a bad thing that we can dump money at usmnt regulars. They all regressed after they came back,
The issue is that you also want to give the league a higher profile so you can get those better players. Guys like Keane and Henry are great advocates for us to have since younger players looking at the league and wondering if it's worth coming over go to them and ask how it is. They're also great to have since that experience can go a long way toward helping younger guys develop.
Also, someone like Miazga might not get noticed if he isn't constantly embarrassing guys like David Villa.
The whole thing is a balancing act and there probably does need to be an upper limit on how much a team can spend on a DP.
The fact remains, this team got too old and it's not 100% due to overpaid MLS guys. The coaches we had this cycle were just unwilling to look at younger guys, even for those bench spots.
EDIT: I mean, you think Klinsmann wouldn't have told US Soccer and MLS to go eat shit if he really wanted to bring in younger guys? Dude shit talked them at every opportunity. It might have been an issue, but it's not why it happened.
I'd add Tim Parker and Weston McKennie.
uncredited male
Member
There were people who wanted McKennie called up for these qualifiers.
We really never found replacements for what Donovan and Dempsey did for us. They carried us for like a decade.
We really never found replacements for what Donovan and Dempsey did for us. They carried us for like a decade.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
One thing overlooked (and its a problem for England too): we need better coaches full stop.
Make the coaching licenses free / vastly cheaper than they are now.
Fucking just model the next 5 years after what Icelands done. There are 15 times as many people within like a 30 mile radius of my city and close to 30 times (or more!) that live within 100 miles than the entire island of Iceland.
Make the coaching licenses free / vastly cheaper than they are now.
Fucking just model the next 5 years after what Icelands done. There are 15 times as many people within like a 30 mile radius of my city and close to 30 times (or more!) that live within 100 miles than the entire island of Iceland.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Concacaf should merge with Conmebol to raise the level of football
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
USA wouldnt qualify for a WC for the next century then
Fuck MLS, man. We aren't competing on the big stage with MLS players. Look at Pulisic. The kid is 19 years old and he's already head and shoulders above the rest of the squad. Why? Because he plays with a world class club team. You think if he was playing for the Union right now he would be anywhere near this good? Hell no.
Every US player with any talent should be trying to get to Europe to develop. Full stop. That's the only way the US improves. Look at Brazil and Argentina. They aren't fielding a team of guys who play in the Brasileirão. That is where the also-rans play or the kids who are just starting out. That's what the MLS should be here. Not the league that our core players play in.
The new manager needs to be a guy who is deeply familiar with the European club teams and can field a squad of all Euro-based US players. We have tons of them but almost none of them get called in for some reason. I thought Klinsi would be that guy but he ended up only going for German dual nationals. If we prioritized calling in guys who have the best combination of talent and best club pedigree over all else, than not only will we likely field a team that is much better technically and tactically, you also incentivize the younger players coming up to get over to Europe to develop. It becomes a feedback loop of quality talent developing in quality environments until you can field a squad capable of winning the World Cup.
Every US player with any talent should be trying to get to Europe to develop. Full stop. That's the only way the US improves. Look at Brazil and Argentina. They aren't fielding a team of guys who play in the Brasileirão. That is where the also-rans play or the kids who are just starting out. That's what the MLS should be here. Not the league that our core players play in.
The new manager needs to be a guy who is deeply familiar with the European club teams and can field a squad of all Euro-based US players. We have tons of them but almost none of them get called in for some reason. I thought Klinsi would be that guy but he ended up only going for German dual nationals. If we prioritized calling in guys who have the best combination of talent and best club pedigree over all else, than not only will we likely field a team that is much better technically and tactically, you also incentivize the younger players coming up to get over to Europe to develop. It becomes a feedback loop of quality talent developing in quality environments until you can field a squad capable of winning the World Cup.
Yup. Better coaching would go a long way towards developing players. But again, we need to be willing to play those players when the time comes.
VendettaRed07
Member
Anyway, hope next cba there's a lock out.
We're gonna need it. The league is too shady, it's structure is probably illegal.
Sue the league for true free agency and tear down the single entity structure. Make it actually competitive. Garber bucks are stupid. The league can't keep making up rules and doing a bunch of bullshit on the fly. If people actually cared about it like they do other leagues fans would go insane at some of the stupid shit that goes on. Maybe well get sensible balance on spending if teams have to compete against each other instead of it all being marketing corporate "greater good" fuck you salaries
Also how about a thread title change.
American Soccer lOTl I don't know about you, but we have to wait for 2022
We're gonna need it. The league is too shady, it's structure is probably illegal.
Sue the league for true free agency and tear down the single entity structure. Make it actually competitive. Garber bucks are stupid. The league can't keep making up rules and doing a bunch of bullshit on the fly. If people actually cared about it like they do other leagues fans would go insane at some of the stupid shit that goes on. Maybe well get sensible balance on spending if teams have to compete against each other instead of it all being marketing corporate "greater good" fuck you salaries
Also how about a thread title change.
American Soccer lOTl I don't know about you, but we have to wait for 2022