I agree that the best players should go to Europe but you gotta remember that the teams that just passed us in the Hex are built around MLS players.
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American Soccer |OT2| Party Like It's 1999.
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
I agree that the best players should go to Europe but you gotta remember that the teams that just passed us in the Hex are built around MLS players.
Seriously. MLS has been amazing for all of these teams, it's given them a competitive league to play in and use to develop their players. They've taken full advantage of it, we haven't. It's just that simple.
Yeah, MLS is not the problem. Issue is deeper.. youth development, pay to play etc. just kill us.
Also a willingness to play our younger talent just isn't there for some reason. Whoever gets the coaching job next needs to be willing to look for and play younger talent.
So, who do you all think gets the job next? I doubt Arena lasts past the morning, he'll step off the plane and get his pink slip. But who comes next?
uncredited male
Member
That was going to be my troll pick.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Yeah, I bet the number of MLS players going to the world cup or the play off is higher than other mid-tier leagues .
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
"Hello darkness, my old friend..."
If buddy is not fired by the time the drawing takes place in December, then the US doesn't deserve to ever make it to another world cup again.
Pretty much. Imagine if football, baseball, and basketball kids had to pay to play, a lot of these players would have never made it to the big leagues. Youth development just started this decade, it'll take some time to bear fruit, but pay to play gotta go.
Gotta look for an international successful manager. Scollari is still a good manager even though his name got tarnished in 2014. I would want Joachim Low, but I doubt that would happen. I wouldn't replace him with Tab Ramos or some other youth national team manager.
Who replaces Gulatti though? You know I think it should be Klinnsmann, but who would you replace him with?
I mean, outside of Mexico the CONCACAF teams going are essentially built on MLS players.
I honestly have no idea. Whoever it is should have a plan to target youth development and integration though. I will say whoever it is shouldn't constantly be going to war with MLS or trying to get pro/rel implemented. Just focus on identifying younger talent and developing it.
The MLS is a pretty good developmental league. I think that's bearing out, but mostly for our sister nations in the confederation. The problem is some of our US players are treating it like a destination league because they're getting money thrown at them that they wouldn't get elsewhere. I can't say I blame them because in the end you want to get paid too. So they come back home or stay here and become stagnant. Their ceiling is much lower in the MLS.
VendettaRed07
Member
I just yelled at the bathroom mirror for a solid half hour
I'm not going insane or anything
I'm not going insane or anything
At the same time we aren't playing these younger players regardless of where they play. Nothing changes if we don't play younger players, gotta start from that point.
That and everyone's development is different. Dempsey and Donovan are the case study. The two best players the program has ever produced, one stayed in MLS and the other went to the Premier League. Now they're tied for most goals scored in a US jersey. We have to figure out where players will develop the best and send them there. If that means they stay in MLS then so be it.
i've certainly gone through a range of emotions tonight
wonder where Cornballer is... would be interesting to hear his opinion on the matter
VendettaRed07
Member
The reactions from Gulatti and Arena to this are seriously about to make me go nuclear
Nothing needs to change. Overreactions drastic
How the fuck do we get rid of these people
Nothing needs to change. Overreactions drastic
How the fuck do we get rid of these people
They need to go, 100%. If it were me any big changes would be related to youth development and making sure the next coach knew to play younger guys and constantly be on the lookout for talent.
Stuff needs to change, but some stuff doesn't. Something like pro/rel wouldn't do shit to help with this.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I think Gulati can fire Arena. Not sure how they would go about replacing Gulati though. I don't know the process. They need to, for sure. They are both trying to keep their job, but a whole overall rehaul is needed. Keeping them and most of the personnel will just drive the point that the US is okay being a mediocre team that sometimes finds success at the regional level (i.e. Gold Cup) and doesn't have ambition to be any better than that.
VendettaRed07
Member
Sad thing is most people wont even know we arent in the World Cup till it starts next summer
The Chosen One
Member
Reposting from the other thread.
Just finished watching the game on DVR. Heartbreaking and an absolute disaster.
Major countries miss out on the World Cup all the time, but we're in arguably the easiest regional federation. With the amount of resources we have compared to the other countries in our region, it should be an automatic ticket.
Burn it all down.
- Fire the entire US Soccer staff all the way up to Gulati.
- Anybody north of 25 on the USMNT should never play an International game again in a US jersey. Maybe let Dempsey play in a couple of friendlies so he can break Donavon's record, then give him is walking papers.
- The US Youth national team coaches should all be fired.
- Whoever is in charge of the MLS Homegrown and Academy system should be fired.
Revamp Youth System
- The MLS has done a great job developing Central American and Caribbean players, but they've mostly frozen out Homegrown players. MLS youth academies send 90% of their players to college soccer to die, 9.9% of them to USL reserve teams to die, and maybe 0.01% actually see a 1st team MLS roster in the first 2-3 years.
- The pay to play system limits soccer to just players with means and financial resources. If you look at Pulisic and read his bio, his dad spent so much money on him and even created an indoor soccer league so his son could play in the winter. He had the resources to go to Europe and etc. We have a lot of other youth players like Pulisic lurking beneath the surface but as long as soccer remains an upper-middle class sport, then we'll never reach them.
- Allow US youth clubs to receive Solidarity and training payments when one of their players gets signed by a professional club. Every single club and academy around the world is able to profit from developing professional except here in the America. In America all the payments go straight to US Soccer and the youth club gets nothing. This means the youth clubs have to charge parents and players directly. Youth clubs are focused on profiting off parents instead of developing professional caliber players.
If nothing else maybe this disaster will force massive change. The corporate executives that literally lost out on multi-million dollar deals will demand it. And there's always 2026 when the World Cup expands to 48 teams. By that point pretty much all of CONCACAF will be going to the World Cup.
Just finished watching the game on DVR. Heartbreaking and an absolute disaster.
Major countries miss out on the World Cup all the time, but we're in arguably the easiest regional federation. With the amount of resources we have compared to the other countries in our region, it should be an automatic ticket.
Burn it all down.
- Fire the entire US Soccer staff all the way up to Gulati.
- Anybody north of 25 on the USMNT should never play an International game again in a US jersey. Maybe let Dempsey play in a couple of friendlies so he can break Donavon's record, then give him is walking papers.
- The US Youth national team coaches should all be fired.
- Whoever is in charge of the MLS Homegrown and Academy system should be fired.
Revamp Youth System
- The MLS has done a great job developing Central American and Caribbean players, but they've mostly frozen out Homegrown players. MLS youth academies send 90% of their players to college soccer to die, 9.9% of them to USL reserve teams to die, and maybe 0.01% actually see a 1st team MLS roster in the first 2-3 years.
- The pay to play system limits soccer to just players with means and financial resources. If you look at Pulisic and read his bio, his dad spent so much money on him and even created an indoor soccer league so his son could play in the winter. He had the resources to go to Europe and etc. We have a lot of other youth players like Pulisic lurking beneath the surface but as long as soccer remains an upper-middle class sport, then we'll never reach them.
- Allow US youth clubs to receive Solidarity and training payments when one of their players gets signed by a professional club. Every single club and academy around the world is able to profit from developing professional except here in the America. In America all the payments go straight to US Soccer and the youth club gets nothing. This means the youth clubs have to charge parents and players directly. Youth clubs are focused on profiting off parents instead of developing professional caliber players.
If nothing else maybe this disaster will force massive change. The corporate executives that literally lost out on multi-million dollar deals will demand it. And there's always 2026 when the World Cup expands to 48 teams. By that point pretty much all of CONCACAF will be going to the World Cup.
It's been awhile since I've posted here. I've been pretty cynical with our team. Bitterly disappointed that our team couldn't grind out even a draw to get to the World Cup. Plenty of blame to go around though.
We truly are the England of CONCACAF, although at the very least, England has that one WC win they can always cling to.
At least we have all those Gold Cup wins.
So many things I want to say, but I'll hold off in case people's feelings get hurt. There's plenty of hurt to go around tonight.
We truly are the England of CONCACAF, although at the very least, England has that one WC win they can always cling to.
At least we have all those Gold Cup wins.
So many things I want to say, but I'll hold off in case people's feelings get hurt. There's plenty of hurt to go around tonight.
So, like the Premier League.
Gulati is up for re election next year and will be the first time he will be challenged.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Let it all out. Today is the day. I doubt you'll hurt people who are hurt by this more than they already are.
Can he be "impeached"?
We had a chance to revamp the youth system and the MLS losers in charge told Jurgen to fuck off. He was dead on everything he said about the MLS and pay to play. Until that changes nothing will matter. How many kids aren't able to play soccer because their family is poor and can't afford thousands of dollars every year?
I get that soccer is lower on the totem pool than some of these sports, but there are so many elite athletes that aren't big enough to make it in the NBA/NFL that could become damn good if they are taught soccer from a young age.
Basically just burn it all down.
I get that soccer is lower on the totem pool than some of these sports, but there are so many elite athletes that aren't big enough to make it in the NBA/NFL that could become damn good if they are taught soccer from a young age.
Basically just burn it all down.
But that's the point, isn't it? A roster built around MLS-based players has a very limited ceiling. They'll be able to sneak in to the WC and if they are lucky, maybe even make it out of their group. But that's it. No team built around MLS players is going deep into the WC tournament.
And this team was absolutely built around MLS players. 16 players out of the 23 man roster were MLS based. We could even add the two Liga MX players to the list, since that league is probably about on par with MLS or maybe slightly better. That leaves only 5 players that are currently playing in Europe on the active roster. Five! That's ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that is the lowest amount of Euro-based players on a USMNT roster for an important WC qualifier in a while.
People want to talk about we should be able to dominate our region, but until we actually call-in players who are a step above the rest of the region in terms of talent and club pedigree, it's not going to happen.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Oh boy I cant wait until the final World Cup qualifying game tonight. Trinidad should be a fairly easy game
The squad is also really old. I just added it up and the average age of this team is 29.5 years old. If you remove Pulisic, it jumps to 30 years old. Just for comparison, the average age of French's national team, which just qualified for the WC yesterday, is 25.6 years old.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Netherlands had France and Sweden in their group
Skellig Gra
Member
Yeah but Netherlands also placed in the last 2 world cups. Its worse for them. We had a steady decline. They just fell off a cliff.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
How does Bruce Arena still have a job as of this moment?
What are we waiting for?
What are we waiting for?
Didn't you hear Arena and Gulati? The overall plan is great. Trust the Process.
If Gulati isn't voted out it'll be pretty obvious that USSF cares more about the money they're able to rake in than the product on the pitch.
Edit: https://twitter.com/JeffreyCarlisle/status/917944204969545735 arigoldgtfo.gif
Skellig Gra
Member
Doesnt really matter in the short term.
I am going to add to this as it sorta reflects my sentiments.
During the Pre-Brazil Klinsmann era, and the Bradley era, and even before them, our players played with a chip on their shoulders. The team was a decent mix of MLS players and European based players. The European based players were always trying to prove to their European peers that they belonged there, and the MLS players were always angling for a decent contract abroad.
This showed in the way the national team played. Were we beautiful? at times, but more often than not, we played ugly with a chip on our shoulder. We grinded results when we needed them, and occasionally punched way above our weight class. It made for some exciting times, and some boring games, but by golly, people looked down on us, and we were out to prove them fucking wrong! Getting out the group of death twice! Grinding out results in the fucking snow or at Azteca. Beating Spain.
But that changed halfway into Klinsmann's tenure. While he was telling people to go to Europe, our best players (or at the very least, our top-ish players at their prime) were all coming home to MLS for fat contracts.
Now, I don't fault our players for wanting to get the most money they can, and for wanting a better quality of life for themselves or their family. And really, I don't necessarily fault MLS for wanting to grow by offering popular and top USMNT players big moolah.
But I'm always of the mindset if you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best, and the best ain't in MLS.
And that's what's disappointing to me about a Michael Bradley coming back to MLS. Here, we have a great talent, who, before coming to Toronto was playing for AS Roma, one of the top Italian teams in the Serie A. Instead of trying to grow his game, he decided to come back to the MLS.
Clint Dempsey was just just a year or two removed from playing in the Europa League final with Spurs when he came back!
Now, instead of going to Europe to compete with the best, why bother? If you're halfway decent and are featured on the USMNT, chances are you'll be paid handsomely in the US with MLS! And you'll be paid so much above market price, that you're probably scaring away potential suitors from Europe! (This is very much the same issue with English players and the BPL).
And I think finally, this complacency is catching up with our national team.
I don't fault our players for wanting to make as much money as they can...but as a fan, they need to make a choice. Do they want to make as much money as they can, World Cup be damned? Or do they actually want to show up to the biggest stage, and get further then the freaking Round of 16?
Because right now, unfortunately, its one or the other, and a lot of our top players (exceptions of course) are choosing the former.
This 100%. So much monetization of the sport at the youth level. Having to travel for a weekend or week and spend 1000s for a license is ridiculous.
Dr Campino
Member
I'm bummed the US got knocked out. Since Canada never qualifies I tend to just root for you. Won't be the same, but hopefully this is a wakeup call to the USSF and they make changes for the better.
I coach youth futsal (indoor soccer). Here in Orlando, Orlando City has built several futsal courts in low income areas and abandoned them. The kids in the area don't know how to play, don't have balls, etc. The courts are empty 99% of the time. If they built them in suburban areas they would be packed. So they failed on two fronts. I go down there sometimes and occasionally some neighborhood kids join in. They love it, but again, just building a court isn't enough right now.
If just playing in Europe was enough Timmy Chandler would be a starter instead of being on the outside looking in. The team just got too damn old, at the end of the day that's what it comes down too. Age finally caught up to the program at the worst possible time. It's essentially the same team we had four years ago and that's bad, we needed fresh faces and we never got any. This is just what happens when you try and use a team with the average age of 30 to qualify. Maybe you sneak through, maybe you don't.
I know the AYSO program is unpopular here in the boards but the US soccer federation should invest heavily into it with the money they make from the clubs selling their kids to the big clubs. AYSO is cheap to get into and help make different tiers of skill levels so parents wont be discouraged to put their kids into other cheaper sports organizations. This should be the start...
I was thinking more the "pay to play" stuff that keeps kids out of academies and the horrifically expensive referee licenses, but I was kinda drunk and in shock. I'm still in shock.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Making things cheaper across the board is the starting point. Coaching licenses and referring licenses need to be handed out like candy to anyone who wants to go through the tests and such.
Oh yeah that too... I wanted to get a coaching license but fuck that when I saw the cost. Ill just solo train my kid and coach at theAYSO when he is old enough
uncredited male
Member
Hey Sunillll. Sunillllll. Nervous yet?
https://twitter.com/DonnaShalala/status/918104240467218432
I cannot even imagine the meltdown sponsors must be having right now.
https://twitter.com/DonnaShalala/status/918104240467218432
I cannot even imagine the meltdown sponsors must be having right now.
VendettaRed07
Member
Our next competitive match is 600 days away
Gold cup 2019
Im gonna be sick.
Edit:
On the bright side, we ARE in fact invited to the 2019 Copa America in Brazil. Which is good. So I guess on the bright side well have that too look forward to a year after Russia.
Seems like the tournament will change after that one though because the next one is 2024. So theyll go to a two year intervals like the Euro, and hopefully have a qualification round for it too instead of random invites.
Gold cup 2019
Im gonna be sick.
Edit:
On the bright side, we ARE in fact invited to the 2019 Copa America in Brazil. Which is good. So I guess on the bright side well have that too look forward to a year after Russia.
Seems like the tournament will change after that one though because the next one is 2024. So theyll go to a two year intervals like the Euro, and hopefully have a qualification round for it too instead of random invites.