SlipperySlope
Banned
What happened to him anyway? He was my hero!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
April 2012 NPD Sales Results [Up3: Best selling game sold less than 236K, Kid Icarus]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
What happened to him anyway? He was my hero!
I don't think with handhelds it's as critical, since there is generally just one primary user of the thing anyway.
I think it is disconcerting with how the 3DS fell off a cliff in US. The iPod Touch has just blown up that market, even for smaller kids.
The most shocking thing about the 3DS unveil was how DS-like the system was. On one hand you have Iwata acknowledging how they view Apple as their primary competitor in the handheld space, and then they just drop this brick on people with a 3 hour battery life and horrendous launch titles at $250. I only ever remember Nintendo shitting the bed that badly once on Virtual Boy. When Christmas rolled around and they blew the doors off with new Mario titles, I honestly thought they'd recovered and would continue selling in the USA.
The market just changed too fast for Nintendo to respond, so it will be interesting to see what their next handheld is like. I would be shocked if they return to the two screen format.
The GBA sold extremely well to be fair... It had a really short life compared to the Gameboy.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
CadetMahoney
Member
Infinite Justice
Member
fixed
SlipperySlope
Banned
I'm having trouble trying to gauge the Vita, as far as dooomed is concerned. The PSP at least found some success in one territory, but the Vita... I think might be killed off early. I just don't see anything at this stage that can improve its fortunes. The PS3 at least had games to look forward to, the full force of Sony's 1st party studios, and ports.
I guess we'll see just how much Sony cares about the Vita.
Edit - I guess a way to put it is: Is it more Dreamcast, or more GameCube?
I guess we'll see just how much Sony cares about the Vita.
Edit - I guess a way to put it is: Is it more Dreamcast, or more GameCube?
E3 is going to be the huge tipping point for a lot of people's feelings towards the Vita methinks. They have to knock it out of the park, or it's pretty grim for the rest of the year.
SlipperySlope
Banned
True. The wait is killing me.
Infinite Justice
Member
KirbYuuYuu
Member
I really don't think TGS will mean anything if E3 fails to deliver.
Well, waiting on TGS is fair enough for either the Japanese market or when you want Japanese games more. But if E3 fails to impress for outside of Japan TGS won't be fixing it.
Yeah, it was underwhelming for someone who wanted a new Mario with their new, much higher end console, but separate from that it's a solid game.
GBA was ~3.5m ahead of DS this far from launch. Stop slighting the GBA. It was a monster and outsold the PS2 from GBA's launch in the U.S. for a few years. It was killed early to bring on DS, but it was a beast in its prime.
I hadn't been clearly remembering, but I knew it did well. I just seemed to recall the DS subsequently trouncing it, similar to the PS2 and PS1 when the PS1 was already a titan.
And thats part of the problem now. They havent killed off the DS which allows it continue confusing the brands and now the same day they are releasing a purple 3DS they are cutting the price on DSi and DSi XL. Talk about mixed messages to a consumer that thinks they are all the same.
The expectations of the Vita @ e3 need to be tempered. Realistically speaking, anything that's announced at e3 wont be released until fall at the earliest.
Could always appropriate the high-jump 100K one for Vita. We at least know it was below that.
That's how it starts ...
That was a rumor of what was stated in a meeting with Iwata. No direct quote of that exists, and most wrote it off as speculation, at the time, IIRC.
True. It may be a tipping point for people here and on forums, but for the general public fall is when things will be showing.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Well.. it was worth a shot
In the long-run, yeah. If you just look through November 2004 launch-aligned, GBA was 5 million ahead of DS by that point. GBA died, so that DS may live. ｍ（ _ _ ）ｍ
I still think of Super Smash Bros Melee as GameCube's flagship launch title. It only came out 2 weeks later. *shrugs*
ShockingAlberto
Member
There are going to be people who are going to latch on to any Vita E3 news - from Trophy tweets to PS1 emulation getting turned on - as a turning point for the system.
I'll go ahead and say, as a Vita owner, what would actually qualify as Sony getting their head in the game is an understanding that they can't draw a line between console developers and handheld developers anymore. That's going to cause people who only like consoles to grit their teeth at the thought that Sony is wasting huge talent on a small screen, but if they want to save the Vita, it has to be done.
This is going to make me hugely unpopular, but Last of Us should not exist. Sony was launching new hardware, their premiere developer was assembling a new team, a Sony executive should have immediately drawn a straight line between the two. Instead, they're putting a new IP on what is soon to be a legacy system in a year or two. It wasn't smart and it may tighten the pants of gamers (I'm definitely going to play it despite being disappointed in UC3), but it hung their hardware out to dry.
Maybe the reason Sony first party is so critically acclaimed is because they don't watch over their developers' shoulders, though they did change what eventually became Uncharted from a fantasy game to a shooter to compete with Gears so that may not be strictly true. But if they want to make their handheld succeed, they need to start giving orders. Consumers see "Feels like a made for TV movie" on reviews for a non-Naughty Dog Uncharted and it confirms their fears.
For all the shit they get for it, reviewers saying "It's another Mario Kart" is exactly what most people want to hear.
tl;dr For me to say Sony is making things competitive, they need to do more than lip service about bringing the console experience to handhelds. The console experience is about more than just nice graphics on a nice screen.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
I think the same could be said for Sony All Stars as well. I couldn't believe there wasn't at least a Vita version to go alone with the PS3 one when it was announced. Hell, if it was me I would have made it exclusive to Vita, it's not like the PS3 needs it to push sales or anything.
Agent X
Member
Good post, although I disagree with you about The Last of Us. I do agree with Diablos54 about PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, though--that looks like it might have been a good fit for the Vita.
Every time I see posts about "Sony should do this-or-that to get their developers to make such-and-such on their portables", there's always a large conflict of opinion. People say they should take some of their big development teams and assign them to do something on the Vita (which they have done, to some extent), and that's fine and dandy.
Have them do what, though? The same exact franchises that they did on home consoles? Whenever they do that, they get slammed from critics saying that "those are just console games tossed on a handheld, they need to make something exclusive that's tuned for portable sensibilities". We saw this a lot in the PSP days. These type of comments always got bandied about, no matter whether the game remained relatively faithful to the full-scale console experience, or got a great deal of "tuning" to try to better suit portable play.
On the other hand, if they do something different, then they're criticized because they're not working on the big franchises that everyone expects them to.
For example, LittleBigPlanet for Vita isn't being done by Media Molecule, but other developers. Are people going to shun LBP Vita because Media Molecule isn't the primary developer? Are Joe Sixpack and Jane Homemaker going to know (or care about) the difference when they buy it for their kids? Are hardcore gamers going to be up in arms because Media Molecule is actually creating a brand new IP for Vita instead of working on LBP?
If Uncharted: Golden Abyss was a Naughty Dog development instead of a Bend Studio creation, then would it have been received better by the general public? Would more people have rushed out to buy the game, along with the system to play it on, if only it bore the title "Uncharted 4" rather than "Uncharted: Golden Abyss"? If Naughty Dog devoted all of their efforts into making the next Uncharted game for Vita (and I mean all their efforts--meaning no The Last of Us, no Uncharted 4 for PS3, no Super Uncharted 5 for PS4), then would that satisfy people? Is that even a realistic expectation?
I personally think there needs to be a balance of new and original creations to bring an air of freshness, along with proven hits to draw in mass appeal. There isn't "one right way" to make games for a portable system.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I agree.
I think the best way to approach this is to look at what has worked in the past.
Nintendo has main portable franchises. Pokemon, advance wars
They have franchises that are both on portables and consoles. Mario Kart, Animal crossing
They have franchises that are are on both but are somehow different. fire emblem, mario, zelda
Two important points:
1. All of these games are developed by A teams and are not viewed as console-lite versions.
2. When you buy a Nintendo portable, you know what to expect.
Sony needs to get working on both #1.
The PSP unfortunately did not really get an identity in the west, and lost its definitive title in Japan so number 2 is going to be really challenging.
I think the best way to approach this is to look at what has worked in the past.
Nintendo has main portable franchises. Pokemon, advance wars
They have franchises that are both on portables and consoles. Mario Kart, Animal crossing
They have franchises that are are on both but are somehow different. fire emblem, mario, zelda
Two important points:
1. All of these games are developed by A teams and are not viewed as console-lite versions.
2. When you buy a Nintendo portable, you know what to expect.
Sony needs to get working on both #1.
The PSP unfortunately did not really get an identity in the west, and lost its definitive title in Japan so number 2 is going to be really challenging.
timetokill
Banned
Last of Us could have been a Vita exclusive.
On your specific example: Naughty Dog didn't even bother to add Move support to Uncharted 3, they just do what they want and don't give a damn. The whole point of creating a second team there was to keep people from leaving the company, so forcing them to work on something that doesn't fit their goals is not a great idea (seriously, Naughty Dog is probably the worst fit for a handheld game out of all of Sony's studios).
Also most of the games they released for the Vita were done by teams that worked on the PS3 before and are quality games. Media Molecule was one of the highlights on the PS3 and they're making a Vita game.
Sony's first party games on Vita and PSP are not lacking in quality, they're lacking in quality marketing. When Sony sells you Uncharted 3 they'll pitch you what makes it a great game, when they try to sell a Vita game, no matter what it is, the pitch is always "oh look, a console game on your handheld!". It's been like this with the PSP and it's a pretty sad mistake they keep repeating over and over.
Edit: Latest example from them makes my point for me, so here you go: Resistance Burning Skies. Touch screen! Rear touchpad! Analog sticks! Trophies! That's not how you sell a game.
Worked for God of War.
Little Green Yoda
Member
I think part of the problem is that a lot of these IPs are relatively new and few people outside of PS3 owners know about Uncharted, LBP, etc. I recall posters bitching about Treyarch reaping the benefits of IW's efforts since they were the inferior CoD dev but the average buyer wouldn't differentiate between the two - to them Black Ops was merely the sequel to MW. Same would apply here if mainstream gamers were targeted more heavily but the main demo for these games might consist more of the "core" gamer type who would give a damn about a different dev.
teruterubozu
Member
Before anything, Sony has to get the name "Vita" out there more. I don't think many casuals/part-time gamers really know about it. Not like the PSP when it first launched.
CadetMahoney
Member
Hopefully this won't be the case and there will be something genuine to look forward to - and not "next year" either. Although they could be sly and say 2012 but release any software next year anyway.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Has that number been "confirmed"? I thought it was the very low end of a range.
A pretty dismal performance either way.
frankie_baby
Member
The low end of the range is 50k
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Come on, someone leak those numbers!
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I think what Shocking Alberto is asking for is "less Portable Ops, more Peace Walkers." For games with hardcore fanbases, there is a real difference there.
However, I still think the analogy to Nintendo's franchises doesn't quite work; very few T and M rated franchises have enjoyed the same success on handhelds that they have on consoles in the West. GTA did well on PSP, but sold better on PS2. The aforementioned Peace Walker did terrible here on the dying PSP. Resident Evil Revelations is going to claw and scratch to a fraction of ORC's first month sales.
Portability is simply not a selling factor for Western "core" gamers. They are more likely to port beg and wait for a "true" sequel than they are to go out and buy a handheld to play Uncharted 4 or GT6.
However, I still think the analogy to Nintendo's franchises doesn't quite work; very few T and M rated franchises have enjoyed the same success on handhelds that they have on consoles in the West. GTA did well on PSP, but sold better on PS2. The aforementioned Peace Walker did terrible here on the dying PSP. Resident Evil Revelations is going to claw and scratch to a fraction of ORC's first month sales.
Portability is simply not a selling factor for Western "core" gamers. They are more likely to port beg and wait for a "true" sequel than they are to go out and buy a handheld to play Uncharted 4 or GT6.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I don't think you can launch a game like Revelations and expect inmediate success. The fanbase might not be there at first, but keep releasing good games from core franchises and the people will go there sooner or later.
And that's the problem with handhelds in the western market, western publishers avoided putting good effort in translating some of their more important core IP's during years and now that hurts handhelds.
And Sony was a part of the problem with the PSP and now with the Vita.
I think his other main point is that Sony needs to get their A teams on Vita making big games that will be noticed by the market. In other words, treat it like a primary platform.
More like their A...MARKETING teams. This is the biggest problem, not the developers, but who tries to sell to customers games. See Nintendo, see what they did with Kid Icarus Uprising. Why Sony can't be like that with their portable efforts?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Has Sony actually advertised any of the individual Vita games? Only commercials I've seen have been for "#gamechanger" with 3G and crossplay being featured (Unit 13 and MLB The Show, respectively, but the commercial isn't really focused on them).
Thunder Monkey
Banned
HOLY CARP THE INDUSTRY DIED!
The beginning of the next big market crash? Or seasonal fart spurred by limited appealing software?
Only time will tell.
The beginning of the next big market crash? Or seasonal fart spurred by limited appealing software?
Only time will tell.
We'll know for next NPD. Max Payne 3 and Diablo 3 will probably both crush that list.
Agent X
Member
Yes, this is true. Massa also made a similar point above.
I'm still surprised they haven't done an Uncharted: Golden Abyss commercial yet.
No, not really. That's a big part of the problem. I mentioned something similar a month and a half ago in this post in another thread here.
That was on March 29. It's now May 12 and not a damn thing has changed.
There are two problems with the current crop of commericals, actually:
1. No game-specific commericals--only ads focusing on system features with small glimpses of individual games. The ad with Unit 13 doesn't even identify the game being played. Sure, it's not an instantly recognizable name, but at least it's a Vita exclusive!
2. They have a tendency to run the same one commercial over and over again within the span of a show. I watched WWE Smackdown last night and they pulled the same stunt there.
If they had a good game-centric commercial for a Vita game, then this would actually start to give the system itself a distinct identity. People don't need a "portable companion" to the PS3--they already had the PSP for that. They need games that really shout out "This is more than just the 'new' PSP", and could appeal to PS3 owners and non-owners alike.