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[Jokeropia]

They released their (and the entire industry's) two biggest IPs back to back for one christmas. People talk about how the 3ds is ahead of the Ds. Well, of course, what made the DS so large - New Super Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon and Nintendogs. They already released 3 of those so far and how old is this system?

They use to, when they had the world at their fingertips, span those bad boys out. Take it easy, let NSMB sell multi-millions and unquestionably sell multi-million pieces of hardware three years after release.
It printed money for hardware and software.

Mario Kart DS: November 14, 2005.
New Super Mario Bros. DS: May 15, 2006.

Difference: 6 months.

Mario Kart 3DS: December 4, 2011.
New Super Mario Bros 3DS: August, 2012.

Difference: 8 months.

Mario 3DLand is not NSMB.

As important as the software is, recent Nintendo hardware always offered some unique features -- touch screen, motion controls, 3D, tablet controller -- for a reason. It's much easier to sell consoles if the hardware itself is already generating interest or makes unique software possible. In this regard, 3D turned out to be an utter failure. It's a feature that's neither generating enough interest nor does it improve games to a sufficient degree.

3D differs from touch screen in that it doesn't affect the gameplay very much, however at this point in time (14 months from release) the DS touch screen was not generating enough public interest either.

 

[wazoo]

HOLY CARP THE INDUSTRY DIED!

The beginning of the next big market crash? Or seasonal fart spurred by limited appealing software?

Only time will tell.

Manufacturers have come and gone (Atari, Sega, SNK, and many more). Some other entered the market (MS and now Apple). The market is evolving all the time and some actors may go out (Sony is weak now), some buying habits may change (going digital, shops may even close by a large numbers - see GAMES in Europe).

I think the total number of money spent will not change but will be spent differently.

PC gaming will still be here forever, because PC are bought for many reasons.

 

[Pranay]

Manufacturers have come and gone (Atari, Sega, SNK, and many more). Some other entered the market (MS and now Apple). The market is evolving all the time and some actors may go out (Sony is weak now), some buying habits may change (going digital, shops may even close by a large numbers - see GAMES in Europe).

I think the total number of money spent will not change but will be spent differently.

PC gaming will still be here forever, because PC are bought for many reasons.

Dedicated Gamers on pc will stay.

But most likely pc will be replaced for other purpose soon by tablets imo.

 

[wazoo]

Dedicated Gamers on pc will stay.

But most likely pc will be replaced for other purpose soon by tablets imo.

tablets will find their own market too, but UI and storage limitations make them more a PC client than something else, IMO.

 

[Pranay]

tablets will find their own market too, but UI and storage limitations make them more a PC client than something else, IMO.

Thats will improve in future thats what i feel.

tbh anything can happen , steambox from valve or new tech from nintendo , ms or sony can change stuff around

 

[RurouniZel]

It's been said before, but it bears repeating. Sony needs to start marketing the GAMES for Vita, not the system itself.

Make people want the GAMES, and people will want the SYSTEM they're on.

Nintendo markets their portable efforts just as much as their console efforts (see Mario 3DLand, Mario Kart 7 and Kid Icarus Uprising for recent examples) and really push these efforts to get the word out that people want to by these games. While the 3DS is struggling in the US, it's doing much better than the Vita is and when NSMB2 hits I'm pretty sure we'll see a surge of 3DS sales. I don't see anything on the horizon for the Vita that will convince people they need it. :/

 

[Goro Majima]

The PC will always be here as long as it's awful to do anything in Microsoft Office on a tablet.

So kids will still need laptops for school, businesses for work, etc. etc.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

More like their A...MARKETING teams. This is the biggest problem, not the developers, but who tries to sell to customers games. See Nintendo, see what they did with Kid Icarus Uprising. Why Sony can't be like that with their portable efforts?

This isn't just a Sony problem, the way Capcom's handled Revelations blows my mind. Handheld games will never sell like console games unless these companies start pushing handheld games to the same degree they do their console games. Why is Nintendo seemingly the only company that gets this?

I mean, does anyone think Revelations would have done the same if had even half the ad budget ORC did?

 

[get2sammyb]

I'll go ahead and say, as a Vita owner, what would actually qualify as Sony getting their head in the game is an understanding that they can't draw a line between console developers and handheld developers anymore. That's going to cause people who only like consoles to grit their teeth at the thought that Sony is wasting huge talent on a small screen, but if they want to save the Vita, it has to be done.

I disagree with this. The name at the start of a game only appeals to the minority of members on NeoGAF. If Naughty Dog had made Uncharted: Golden Abyss, I'm not sure there would be a huge amount of difference in the end results or the sales figures.

It's such a tired argument. There are a lot of people that would argue Resistance Retribution is better than its PS3 counterparts, and I still personally believe God of War: Ghost of Sparta is the best in the series. There's no reason to believe that having the "top tier" developers on those projects would make a difference -- and nor should it.

The problem is more with perception than anything else.

Having said that, I quite like what Evolution Studios did. Obviously the bulk of the studio is working on a new "big budget" project, but a small portion of it was split off to make MotorStorm RC. That seemed to work out really well.

 

[Nirolak]

All right, about to update the thread.

Are there any other officially sourceable numbers besides Kid Icarus?

 

[frankie_baby]

All right, about to update the thread.

Are there any other officially sourceable numbers besides Kid Icarus?

Vita 55k from some irc channel and 3ds 149k ps3 151k from burntpork's mate

 

[Loudninja]

All right, about to update the thread.

Are there any other officially sourceable numbers besides Kid Icarus?

No nothing official.

 

[Road]

Vita 55k from some irc channel and 3ds 149k ps3 151k from burntpork's mate

Not reliable at all. Might as well go with VGC.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

I mean, does anyone think Revelations would have done the same if had even half the ad budget ORC did?

It still wouldn't pull ORC numbers. Most RE fans worldwide want console RE games that's why ORC sold well.

 

[nincompoop]

Revelations would've sold a lot better if RE Mercenaries 3D didn't exist.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It still wouldn't pull ORC numbers. Most RE fans worldwide want console RE games that's why ORC sold well.

With half the budget I wouldn't expect ORC numbers. Even full budget I wouldn't expect ORC numbers given one's on a struggling brand new platform versus 3 well established platforms. RE fans have proven pretty diverse in the past though, I mean I doubt there's really less market for a fullscale handheld RE than there is for a Wii railgunner or crusty old port. Revelations could have and should have done way better than it did.

 

[frankie_baby]

Not reliable at all. Might as well go with VGC.

Think we might have found the secret of where vgbollockzzzz get their numbers

 

[Saint Gregory]

Can someone please remind me again why every other entertainment format releases full sales numbers (in the case of movies and music on a weekly basis on less) but VG sales numbers are treated like they're state secrets?

I feel like we need Julian Assange up in here or something :/

I disagree with this. The name at the start of a game only appeals to the minority of members on NeoGAF. If Naughty Dog had made Uncharted: Golden Abyss, I'm not sure there would be a huge amount of difference in the end results or the sales figures.

It's such a tired argument. There are a lot of people that would argue Resistance Retribution is better than its PS3 counterparts, and I still personally believe God of War: Ghost of Sparta is the best in the series. There's no reason to believe that having the "top tier" developers on those projects would make a difference -- and nor should it.

The problem is more with perception than anything else.

Having said that, I quite like what Evolution Studios did. Obviously the bulk of the studio is working on a new "big budget" project, but a small portion of it was split off to make MotorStorm RC. That seemed to work out really well.

I don't believe that was really the point of what ShockingAlberto was saying. It's not that Sony and other companies don't put their AAA teams on handheld games, it's the fact that they don't treat handheld games as if they deserve the same attention as console games that's the problem. Nintendo doesn't have a separation between the two and B level teams making handheld games for other publishers is more of a symptom of their problems than the root cause.

 

[Agent X]

I disagree with this. The name at the start of a game only appeals to the minority of members on NeoGAF. If Naughty Dog had made Uncharted: Golden Abyss, I'm not sure there would be a huge amount of difference in the end results or the sales figures.

It's such a tired argument. There are a lot of people that would argue Resistance Retribution is better than its PS3 counterparts, and I still personally believe God of War: Ghost of Sparta is the best in the series. There's no reason to believe that having the "top tier" developers on those projects would make a difference -- and nor should it.

The problem is more with perception than anything else.

Having said that, I quite like what Evolution Studios did. Obviously the bulk of the studio is working on a new "big budget" project, but a small portion of it was split off to make MotorStorm RC. That seemed to work out really well.

I agree completely, and you mentioned some very good examples as well.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Can someone please remind me again why every other entertainment format releases full sales numbers (in the case of movies and music on a weekly basis on less) but VG sales numbers are treated like they're state secrets?

Numbers of interest were ok at one time, but Sony decided not to show theirs anymore. I'd hazard a guess why but some ppl might get butthurt over it. This also had a knock on effect where figures are combined too.

NPD depends on Sony buying their info so they have leverage on making them public or not and there are no other reliable trackers for the USA.

 

[RukusProvider]

I remember when NPD was going to provide Gaf with information and a few times, we'd even see Evilore post numbers for games/systems.

Seems like that well dried up and now Gaf is stuck with no hard leaks and no special access. NPD 1: GAF 0

 

[impact]

I remember when NPD was going to provide Gaf with information and a few times, we'd even see Evilore post numbers for games/systems.

Seems like that well dried up and now Gaf is stuck with no hard leaks and no special access. NPD 1: GAF 0

Obviously Sony trying to hide up their awful numbers. Fucking scum.

 

[Nirolak]

No nothing official.

Thanks.

 

[specialguy]

While I do believe Sony is the one who told NPD to stop releasing hardware, the actual reason we cant work out the numbers this month is lack of Nintendo PR.

Normally MS posts their's, then Nintendo does a PR with all their numbers and we work out PS3 and maybe some other stuff.

Not sure why more and more Nintendo seems to be taking their ball and going home. I guess bad numbers, but it hasn't stopped them before.

Well, at least there is Nintendo's quarterly figures that hopefully people like Road can back calculate missing NPD's (to the nearest 10k) eventually.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I remember when NPD was going to provide Gaf with information and a few times, we'd even see Evilore post numbers for games/systems.

Seems like that well dried up and now Gaf is stuck with no hard leaks and no special access. NPD 1: GAF 0

NPD screwed GAF from day 1. The original deal was for top 20 games and individual platform top 10s iirc. Things have gotten progressively worse, but NPD never supplied GAF with what was agreed to from even the start.

 

[donny2112]

I remember when NPD was going to provide Gaf with information

The future of NPD info on NeoGAF (Dec-2006, for Nov-2006 NPD data

Spoiler

that Youtube video *grumble, grumble*

a synopsis of the market, which includes the Top 20 with unit sales, install base LTD and monthly for each platform

Also, I wouldn't be against answering a few requests each month for data like we do for our elite media outlets. In other words, if you wanted to start a thread about licensed titles, I cold pull data for you and provide it to give your readers something to write about [within reason].

Bait-and-switch. This never happened.

 

[BishopLamont]

Fuck NPD.

 

[frankie_baby]

We need someone to just leak the lot

 

[BishopLamont]

^This

NPD shat on Neogaf, why should we play by their rules?

The whole purpose of the deal was to stop the leaks from spreading, they got their end of the bargain. We got nothing.

 

[SapientWolf]

We'll know for next NPD. Max Payne 3 and Diablo 3 will probably both crush that list.

Yeah, mid-tier died. Blizz and R* will continue to print money for the foreseeable future.

 

[Jburton]

HOLY CARP THE INDUSTRY DIED!

The beginning of the next big market crash? Or seasonal fart spurred by limited appealing software?

Only time will tell.

Next gen consoles required, no buzz around games technology at the moment, many devs and publishers have even stated that next gen needs to be sooner rather than later.

 

[RukusProvider]

The future of NPD info on NeoGAF (Dec-2006, for Nov-2006 NPD data

Spoiler

that Youtube video *grumble, grumble*

Bait-and-switch. This never happened.

I believe this actually did happen a few times. Evilore would release some figures with the disclaimer of "can't comment. NO leaks can be posted."

I always assumed those numbers were from NPD directly. However, it's been a while.

I'm curious to see get Evilore's take on this.

 

[donny2112]

^This

Unfortunately, big leaks lead to NPD witch-hunts lead to stoppage of leaks. If it could be done without NPD knowing/spreading across the internet, maybe, but unfortunately, it can never go back to the way it was.

I believe this actually did happen a few times.

Top 20 with units? Not once.

 

[BishopLamont]

No. Leaks lead to NPD witch-hunts lead to stoppage of leaks. If it could be done without NPD knowing/spreading across the internet, maybe, but unfortunately, it can never go back to the way it was.



Top 20 with units? Not once.

Leaks happen either way, but the deal with neogaf was to prevent leaks on the board itself and neogaf is a big enough site to consider the leaks to be considered public. Neogaf complied and in return we'd get a bit of information, enough to not cry for leaks and to deter any leakage.

NPD got everything they wanted, nomore substantial leaks and eventually we got even less data. Thats just a shit go by NPD.

 

[specialguy]

No. Big leaks lead to NPD witch-hunts lead to stoppage of leaks. If it could be done without NPD knowing/spreading across the internet, maybe, but unfortunately, it can never go back to the way it was.

I dont see why not. It doesn't have to be originally posted on GAF. Somebody could post them anywhere on the internet, they just have to be generally understood as reliable. If Gaf is just posting something/rumor from somewhere else, or even hints where to find them...

How hard would it be for somebody to get behind a proxy and throw something on pastebin or one of 5 million message boards?

We used to get leaks before, why not again?

 

[donny2112]

Thats just a bad move by NPD.

Yeah, NPD was less than honest. Can't really say it was surprising. The "deal" always seemed too good to be true. I mean, come on. Full licensed title breakdown, so that we can have actually knowledgeable discussion? That was never going to happen.

 

[BishopLamont]

I dont see why not. It doesn't have to be originally posted on GAF. Somebody could post them anywhere on the internet, they just have to be generally understood as reliable. If Gaf is just posting something/rumor from somewhere else, or even hints where to find them...

How hard would it be for somebody to get behind a proxy and throw something on pastebin or one of 5 million message boards?

We used to get leaks before, why not again?

There are leaks, its just not known on Neogaf (since numbers are not allowed), which means we cant have any discussions about them.

Yeah, NPD was less than honest. Can't really say it was surprising. The "deal" always seemed to good too be true. I mean, come on. Full licensed title breakdown, so that we can have actually knowledgeable discussion? That was never going to happen.

They're just stingy bastards. Hardware numbers + top 10 or top 20 wouldn't do shit to their subscription business, yet they slowly took them away after they got what they wanted.

I want to see how bad Vita bombed god dammit.

I don't get why this doesn't get more attention in e industry. How the hell can anyone take video games serious if there isn't even a good and open sales tracker. Music, movies, etc. all has companies that provide this stuff. Every other major regions provide decent data (although Europe could use some work) so why the hell is this such a fight for us to get any insight into sales? Something seriously needs to change.

No competition. I also blame Evilore for falling into their trap.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

I don't get why this doesn't get more attention in e industry. How the hell can anyone take video games serious if there isn't even a good and open sales tracker. Music, movies, etc. all has companies that provide this stuff. Every other major regions provide decent data (although Europe could use some work) so why the hell is this such a fight for us to get any insight into sales? Something seriously needs to change.

 

[UberTag]

HOLY CARP THE INDUSTRY DIED!

The beginning of the next big market crash? Or seasonal fart spurred by limited appealing software?

Only time will tell.

This is actually more of a case of where the "highs are higher" and nobody cares about the lows. So yeah, the market is in transition, granted... but there were no highs last month in gaming outside of Trials Evolution XBLA.

(Although Xenoblade Chronicles may have done just fine but we'll never know...)

Diablo III in 3 days will be a HIGH.

Incidentally, the one trend that seems most noteworthy for me is the traditional "these games have legs" titles aren't showing legs.

Modern Warfare 3 (while still in the Top 10) doesn't have the legs of past Call of Duty games for unit sales. The big Nintendo 3DS games from last Christmas aren't showing legs during low purchasing months (although these will clearly re-emerge when consumers are engaged in buying software again - i.e. Christmas). Skylanders is a booming sales juggernaut franchise - but only in the Accessories section of NPD's report. New people aren't buying games but man are those existing owners lining up to buy new figures.

The one and only exception to this "no legs" trend is Just Dance on the Wii.

I don't get why this doesn't get more attention in e industry. How the hell can anyone take video games serious if there isn't even a good and open sales tracker. Music, movies, etc. all has companies that provide this stuff. Every other major regions provide decent data (although Europe could use some work) so why the hell is this such a fight for us to get any insight into sales? Something seriously needs to change.

Publishers and manufacturers could care less if they're "taken seriously" by the mainstream media and the specialized media is effectively in their pocket. They're just interested in protecting their interests, making money and being able to smokescreen sales disasters from shareholders so they can continue to raise capital for frivolous and irresponsible development spending. Full transparency in sales numbers largely obfuscates that ability. NPD may be largely invested in making money but it's not like this is a one-way street. Everyone's interests are being served by these cloak-and-dagger shenanigans.

We'd see these evergreen games if we had top 20 and it wasn't SKU combined.

We'd see their ~100K sales/month, sure. That's not the legs these franchises are used to. And, in the case of the Activision titles, SKU combined is probably a boost not a detraction.

 

[BishopLamont]

This is actually more of a case of where the "highs are higher" and nobody cares about the lows. So yeah, the market is in transition, granted... but there were no highs last month in gaming outside of Trials Evolution XBLA.

(Although Xenoblade Chronicles may have done just fine but we'll never know...)

Diablo III in 3 days will be a HIGH.

Incidentally, the one trend that seems most noteworthy for me is the traditional "these games have legs" titles aren't showing legs.

Modern Warfare 3 (while still in the Top 10) doesn't have the legs of past Call of Duty games for unit sales. The big Nintendo 3DS games from last Christmas aren't showing legs during low purchasing months (although these will clearly re-emerge when consumers are engaged in buying software again - i.e. Christmas). Skylanders is a booming sales juggernaut franchise - but only in the Accessories section of NPD's report. New people aren't buying games but man are those existing owners lining up to buy new figures.

The one and only exception to this "no legs" rule is Just Dance on the Wii.

We'd see these evergreen games if we had top 20 and it wasn't SKU combined.

 

[donny2112]

I want to see how bad Vita bombed

If Nintendo keeps up their quarterly report formats, we'll probably see in three months how Vita did this month, if nothing else. Eh.

 

[BishopLamont]

If Nintendo keeps up their quarterly report formats, we'll probably see in three months how Vita did this month, if nothing else. Eh.

2006: wow GBA > PS3
2012: where are vita numbers??!?!?

I already know Vita bombed thanks to creamsugar's post. But it just ain't the same without the numbers hitting you as soon as you click the thread.

 

[specialguy]

I don't get why this doesn't get more attention in e industry. How the hell can anyone take video games serious if there isn't even a good and open sales tracker. Music, movies, etc. all has companies that provide this stuff. Every other major regions provide decent data (although Europe could use some work) so why the hell is this such a fight for us to get any insight into sales? Something seriously needs to change.

Actually Europe was made me think NPD numbers in USA would come to an end. They've gotten virtually no numbers for ages.

Japan of course is the polar opposite.

If Nintendo keeps up their quarterly report formats, we'll probably see in three months how Vita did this month, if nothing else. Eh.

We already know 50-83k right? I mean we basically know.

 

[Saty]

Their excuse now is how retail data no longer paints the full picture of how the games and the industry are doing so there's less point of sharing numbers even in their own top10 ranking.

 

[BishopLamont]

Actually Europe was made me think NPD numbers in USA would come to an end. They've gotten virtually no numbers for ages.

Japan of course is the polar opposite.



We already know 50-83k right? I mean we basically know.

Europe has actually received more numbers, its NPD who has gone backwards.

Their excuse now is how retail data no longer paints the full picture of how the games and the industry are doing so there's less point of sharing numbers even in their own top10 ranking.

They once said they'll start tracking digital numbers also.

 

[Petrae]

The frustration about not having access to data is understandable. It certainly makes analysis difficult to do, and conversations are based on hearsay and leaks. After having access for a few months (like I did with Kmart), it's a step backwards having to trust and rely on those able to drop a few cryptic morsels.

I'm probably wrong about this, but I feel that the risk of negative perception plays a role in the secrecy that we're seeing now. Sony struggled with sales here in the US (as some have pointed out) and wanted sales data restricted to limit negative perception. Nintendo has become more infrequent with its own data sharing because, frankly, the data isn't that great and poor numbers reflect poorly on the company. That's exactly why I think Nintendo elected to be silent after the NPD drop.

Microsoft is still happy to release data because, hey, they're number one. If Microsoft was falling behind Sony or Nintendo, I doubt that the company would be so quick to share results.

It's unfortunate that sales data is used this way, but I don't see this changing here in the US anytime soon. Compound that with continued NPD struggles with accounting for digital sales, and it's going to be very difficult to analyze this industry fairly.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Evilore should try to persuade NPD to at least give us the hardware numbers.

 

[UberTag]

Their excuse now is how retail data no longer paints the full picture of how the games and the industry are doing so there's less point of sharing numbers even in their own top10 ranking.

This is technically true.

So many gaming dollars are now going towards digital purchases, freemium game upgrades, Xbox LIVE, COD Elite, annual WoW passes, other game subscription models, iOS sales, used games, GameFly, etc.

Evilore should try to persuade NPD to at least give us the hardware numbers.

If I was NPD, I'd pay Evilore a cut each month to ensure the status quo of no leaks gets maintained. That would just be smart business.

 

[LizardKing]

Their excuse now is how retail data no longer paints the full picture of how the games and the industry are doing so there's less point of sharing numbers even in their own top10 ranking.

So, basically they're saying their service is worthless

 

[MoosiferX]

Do you guys sell used games/hardware? If so, what percentage of April sales were used?

The majority of our sales were used. While we do get in a limited supply of brand new games, we have to pay 52 dollars to get a game we end up selling for 60... So yeah, sales were mostly last gen and retro games.

Still though, video game sales on the whole including our new games were way up for us (we also deal w/ CCGs and collectible figures). In addition we had a huge influx of trade ins as well. It just seemed like people had video games on the mind last month, at least around where we're at anyways! The NPD numbers certainly don't reflect that though, eh?