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[GymWolf]

Maybe they're not actual problems for you if you don't care about these specific things, but for me and other people they are, that's all.
It's really immersion breaking for me to see things like this, the world doesn't feel immersive and it doesn't make me want to explore.

I feel the same way about the loot for example too. The fact that you can't interact with and search dead bodies, but instead you see all loots / items shining and making sound, is a negative for me, because by doing it like this, you also immediately know where there won't be anything. If you're walking around and you don't hear a sound or see something shining, you know there's nothing to find, it makes the world feel less organic, it's less engaging to me, it feels more artificial.

It's really not "made up criticism", it's things I really don't like, and older RPGs, even from Obsidian, did all of this a lot better. Everything feels fake and lazy, but it probably works well if someone wants everything to be fast and immediate, without looking for immersion.

You can disable objects shining and audio cue (i think)

And although i fully understand your level design critique, to make traversal\exploration with parkour in mind in a fantasy world you are not gonna have a realistic layout, you would not have platforms made of rocks conveniently placed to make your reach a secret place if the architecture of the world was realistic.

Maybe the dying lights/mirror edges games can work with a semi-realistic layout because you have tall buildings to climb etc.
But in the wilderness of a fantasy open world how do you make arcadey platforming with a realistic layout?

Kc2 has realistic layout but you don't really have parkour focused exploration in that game, not much jumping and climbing in that game other than finding a way to maybe enter an house at night from a secondary entrance, hardly the same as avowed.

Sometimes you have to gave up on realism to make gamey stuff work.

Tlou2 has realistic layout and the exploration is "realistic", no jumping and climbing 15 rocks to reach a chest behind a waterfall.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

lol I was wondering why this didn’t even show up in the Steam store for me…

 

[Madflavor]

Why am I getting Starfield vibes from this discourse?

“Oh it’s good guys, it’s actually really good!”

Yeah?

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Some of the footage I’ve seen looks absolutely rough.

Holy shit, that's awful

 

[Larxia]

You can disable objects shining and audio cue (i think)

And although i fully understand your level design critique, to make traversal\exploration with parkour in mind in a fantasy world you are not gonna have a realistic layout, you would not have platforms made of rocks conveniently placed to make your reach a secret place if the architecture of the world was realistic.

Maybe the dying lights/mirror edges games can work with a semi-realistic layout because you have tall buildings to climb etc.
But in the wilderness of a fantasy open world how do you make arcadey platforming with a realistic layout?

Kc2 has realistic layout but you don't really have parkour focused exploration in that game, not much jumping and climbing in that game other than finding a way to maybe enter an house at night from a secondary entrance, hardly the same as avowed.

Sometimes you have to gave up on realism to make gamey stuff work.

Tlou2 has realistic layout and the exploration is "realistic", no jumping and climbing 15 rocks to reach a chest behind a waterfall.

To be honest even on human made structures, they still put ropes everywhere lol

 

[vaibhavpisal]

To be honest even on human made structures, they still put ropes everywhere lol

Those are not the only place you can climb.

Lot of freedom in types of ledges I can climb.

Thats not “yellow paint” so to speak.

 

[GymWolf]

To be honest even on human made structures, they still put ropes everywhere lol

I don't think it matter if they are build by humans, the exploration philosophy of the game doesn't change, it still a parkour focused title, you are not gonna have a realistic layout no matter who built the structure.

Ropes seems to be like a less visible yellow paint to tell you what platforms are climbable or the point where you can start the climbing, but i'm not even sure because in the open world where you climb rocks, you don't have them.

 

[Tertullian]

Some of the footage I’ve seen looks absolutely rough.

Aren't there Ultima games from the 1980s which are famous for having fully realistic, immersive behaviors and day/night routines for NPCs?

Obsidian in 2025 is incapable of doing what Richard Garriott did when he was, like, age 22 in his mom's basement or something 40 years ago.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Aren't there Ultima games from the 1980s which are famous for having fully realistic, immersive behaviors and day/night routines for NPCs?

I mean.. Ultima V (1988) had NPC "schedules", but this description is really overselling it IMO...

 

[GHG]

I don't think it matter if they are build by humans, the exploration philosophy of the game doesn't change, it still a parkour focused title, you are not gonna have a realistic layout no matter who built the structure.

Ropes seems to be like a less visible yellow paint to tell you what platforms are climbable or the point where you can start the climbing, but i'm not even sure because in the open world where you climb rocks, you don't have them.

The issue is though most people who are interested in RPG's would prefer more in depth RPG mechanics along with better NPC's/dialogue/world building to "parkour".

I've said it before, but based on the games strengths they would have been far better off fully leaning in to them and making this an open ended action/adventure title with a strong lean in to immersive sim elements (to really add freedom to the exploration side of things).

 

[Panajev2001a]

Like every game ever released?

Are you saying every game ever released peaks in sales at the starts and then flatlines and you are saying Starfield did this and it is fine? Now it is EveryoneToo(TM)? Come on .

 

[GymWolf]

The issue is though most people who are interested in RPG's would prefer more in depth RPG mechanics along with better NPC's/dialogue/world building to "parkour".

I've said it before, but based on the games strengths they would have been far better off fully leaning in to them and making this an open ended action/adventure title with a strong lean in to immersive sim elements (to really add freedom to the exploration side of things).

I can be mad that avowed feel more like starfield than skyrim, ok, we all know that.

After i accept that, i can also enjoy the exploration and the parkour the game provide.

2 things can both be true.

You are right, they could have gone fully action but i enjoy light rpgs so it's not a big problem for me personally, but then again, i'm not an historic obsidian fanboy so my expectations were already pretty low after tow.

 

[Topher]

Why am I getting Starfield vibes from this discourse?

“Oh it’s good guys, it’s actually really good!”

Yeah?

Opinions. I'm enjoying the game. The more I play, the flaws I see, but it is still enjoyable. That, to me, is what makes a game "good".

 

[Madflavor]

Opinions. I'm enjoying the game. The more I play, the flaws I see, but it is still enjoyable. That, to me, is what makes a game "good".

And of course that’s fine, I’m just not seeing enough good to justify $70. It’s flaws seem pretty apparent and backwards for a 2025 game. In that regard it does remind me a bit of Starfield.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Are you saying every game ever released peaks in sales at the starts and then flatlines and you are saying Starfield did this and it is fine? Now it is EveryoneToo(TM)? Come on .

I am saying all games have a surge of sales and then it tapers off until promo's or discounts are added, where you will see sales spike.

 

[adamsapple]

Edit: meh, not worthy.

 

[Topher]

And of course that’s fine, I’m just not seeing enough good to justify $70. It’s flaws seem pretty apparent and backwards for a 2025 game. In that regard it does remind me a bit of Starfield.

The flaws became increasingly apparent for me last night when I entered Paradis for the first time and realized how dead it truly was. That was disappointing. But I came into Avowed expecting very little and I found an enjoyable combat/character system even if other aspects were not that great. But for an RPG, you are correct that this game is incredibly light in 2025. Hopefully the combat and character progression will be enough for me to stick with it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The flaws became increasingly apparent for me last night when I entered Paradis for the first time and realized how dead it truly was. That was disappointing. But I came into Avowed expecting very little and I found an enjoyable combat/character system even if other aspects were not that great. But for an RPG, you are correct that this game is incredibly light in 2025. Hopefully the combat and character progression will be enough for me to stick with it.

It feels weird for a todays game and I can't put my finger on it

Like an older game that got a remake or a mobile game ported to pc or something

It just doesn't really have its hooks on me to make me think "I really want to fire that game up and see what's next"

 

[Topher]

It feels weird for a todays game and I can't put my finger on it

Like an older game that got a remake or a mobile game ported to pc or something

It just doesn't really have its hooks on me to make me think "I really want to fire that game up and see what's next"

Doesn't help that the story isn't very good. I've picked up a couple of side quests. Going to see how those are tonight.

 

[StereoVsn]

Seriously could you imagine if they followed BG3's lead and did the same with Pillars. Would have been amazing. I still need to play deadfire.

You really should if you even moderately like CRPGs as it’s very good.

And yes, I guess we will never know how PoE3 would do as Obsidian is going for their “mild success” route now .

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Doesn't help that the story isn't very good. I've picked up a couple of side quests. Going to see how those are tonight.

It just lacks soul or something, several games I would rather be playing

 

[Kacho]

Come on man, you’ve been asking for like 2 years in private messages who I am, already said I’m not your buddy Erik or Eriksson or whatever else you’ve imagined. Talk to me in private in swedish if you want to talk about out of board things, this is getting ridiculous.

Kinda creepy tbh

 

[StereoVsn]

It feels weird for a todays game and I can't put my finger on it

Like an older game that got a remake or a mobile game ported to pc or something

It just doesn't really have its hooks on me to make me think "I really want to fire that game up and see what's next"

Would you say they were shooting for “Mild Success” there?

Overall to me the game seems to lack ambition and tries to be bland and “mild”. Basically “Good Enough for GamePass”.

And it’s a shame as for all the technical issues, games like Alpha Protocol, KOTOR 2 and New Vegas had great storytelling and interesting premise.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Would you say they were shooting for “Mild Success” there?

Overall to me the game seems to lack ambition and tries to be bland and “mild”. Basically “Good Enough for GamePass”.

And it’s a shame as for all the technical issues, games like Alpha Protocol, KOTOR 2 and New Vegas had great storytelling and interesting premise.

I hate to be this way and have told the story many times how Phil okayed the original Halo Infinite trailer and thought it looked good but to me these bland and mild games kind of circles back to Phil for me

Can he not spot a great game or does he intentionally tell these teams to indeed shoot for mid and lets slap it on Gamepass?

I am just so down on first party games of late and would much rather be back in KCD2

 

[Topher]

Come on man, you’ve been asking for like 2 years in private messages who I am, already said I’m not your buddy Erik or Eriksson or whatever else you’ve imagined. Talk to me in private in swedish if you want to talk about out of board things, this is getting ridiculous.

And I’ve been 100% consistent from day 1 on Gamepass, as long as I get it cheap I’ll use it to save money and yes it’s been great for that.
I’m glad I got to play Call of Duty last year and Ninja Gaiden 2 Black and Avowed now without extra payment, should I not be that??
Maybe if you tried using PS+ Premium you would understand where I’m coming from, I liked that as well when I got that through similar cheap deals (stacked PSNow to Premium conversion, $5/month). Sadly that sub has ended now. Still have GP cheap for another year. After that? Who knows.

Damn dude.....that guy really been harassing you for two years? What for?

Too much to hope you can turn it off completely? Seems like it’s part of the story. There’s something about the look that triggers trypophobia in me.

I mean....folks will make reference to it in the story as it is what indicates you are a "godlike", but I don't think you will see it.

 

[StereoVsn]

And of course that’s fine, I’m just not seeing enough good to justify $70. It’s flaws seem pretty apparent and backwards for a 2025 game. In that regard it does remind me a bit of Starfield.

And that’s why Steam CCUs are low. People who are playing it are probably mostly playing this on GamePass.

It is geared for that. “Mild Success” and “Good Enough for GamePass”. Basically it’s like Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance vs BG1&2. And that’s fine I guess, just such a letdown from Obsidian.

Personally I would rather spend my time with KCD 2 or Rebirth or a million other titles. But different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Opinions. I'm enjoying the game. The more I play, the flaws I see, but it is still enjoyable. That, to me, is what makes a game "good".

Someone having fun playing Avowed?

 

[GymWolf]

Why starting a discussion about woke in the game if you can't even notice it, it would be a waste of time.

I said what i had to say in the last pages of the review topic and i was definitely not alone in noticing a certain other world-ish pattern...

 

[Zacfoldor]

I hate to be this way and have told the story many times how Phil okayed the original Halo Infinite trailer and thought it looked good but to me these bland and mild games kind of circles back to Phil for me

Can he not spot a great game or does he intentionally tell these teams to indeed shoot for mid and lets slap it on Gamepass?

I am just so down on first party games of late and would much rather be back in KCD2

My brother, Phil is the man who didn't care about BG3 until after it released.

There was a certain segment of the gaming community(anyone who ever played 10 seconds of DOS2) who knew BG3 would be an absolute banger goty but Phil didn't realize it until weeks too late. Phil let SH2, Wukong, and BG3 slip thru his fingers. He cannot tell a potential banger until someone tells him. There is an expertise that we have that many gaming execs never will, and that is not true in every industry. The enthusiast gamer can be a knowledgeable sort.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Some of the footage I’ve seen looks absolutely rough.

Next Gen™

 

[Alebrije]

I'm 52 years old, my first console was an Atari, then ColecoVision (that I'm probably still pronouncing wrong), and so on. I've been gaming since before video games were even a thing (made up my own with GI Joe action figures and dice). I get why you feel unheard; it's a natural reaction to the constant controversies fueled by big mouth groups.

IMO, the decline of certain studios has far more to do with mismanagement, monetization, and technology struggles than political activism. Some consumers react toxically, instead of just not buying a game they dislike, they bitch and moan about it "pushing an agenda". Some studios pushed by of all the rigmarole &/or "shareholder value" simply fail to focus on making the games they love and sell them to the right audience. I have a strong believe like just like anything else in the world that changes, the gaming industry is changing organically. No prospective is incorrect, woke, Anti-woke and people like me who just don't give a flying fuck are the forces behind that organic change. I just have a hard time actually hating people for having a different opinion or lifestyle from mine.

I personally couldn't claim that all AAA games with diverse representation fail when Baldur’s Gate 3, Elden Ring, and Alan Wake 2 (because SweetBaby Inc was involved ) exist and continue to thrive. And just because some studios handle criticism poorly doesn't mean the entire industry agrees with their statement.

Turn off the TV, Twitter, and gaming news outlets for a while, they don’t reflect what the none monolithic gaming or development community actually thinks. They’ve been about profit over gaming culture for a long time now.

Yeah, you too GAF.

Yes, some fan criticism comes from bigotry, some doesn’t. It’s never one sided. I agree with 90% of your sentiment, especially about corporate influence on games, but the rest feels too much like conspiracy territory.

At the end of the day, people just need to STFU and buy the games they like, the industry has always changed and always will. Though I do find all the hooting an hollering entertaining and I'd miss it all if it stopped. What would I do with all these gifs?

Maybe is the age or because been playing videogames since Atari 2600 but basically this is my reaction every time a console war or politics involve the industry :

Ther are always be good videogames and bad ones, and honestly industry is better than ever,

Also why so many Avowed threads ? Is like a plague.

 

[Topher]

Does it rhyme with wench?

More like banana

 

[Rosoboy19]

It feels weird for a todays game and I can't put my finger on it

Like an older game that got a remake or a mobile game ported to pc or something

Yeah, the colorful but empty world with random lizard guys running around is kinda giving me older 3D Zelda game vibes, like a Skyward Sword remaster or something.

 

[Madflavor]

The flaws became increasingly apparent for me last night when I entered Paradis for the first time and realized how dead it truly was. That was disappointing. But I came into Avowed expecting very little and I found an enjoyable combat/character system even if other aspects were not that great. But for an RPG, you are correct that this game is incredibly light in 2025. Hopefully the combat and character progression will be enough for me to stick with it.

Watching gameplay vids, that stuck out to me as well. Daggerfall in 1996 had cities that felt more alive. It had wandering NPCs. Did they just run out of time or didn't think something like that was important? Makes me wonder.

 

[StereoVsn]

Watching gameplay vids, that stuck out to me as well. Daggerfall in 1996 had cities that felt more alive. It had wandering NPCs. Did they just run out of time or didn't think something like that was important? Makes me wonder.

My guess MS gave them a set budget expecting mid sales and that’s as much as the team could do without launching with a buggy mess.

So they designed the world and the systems to the given budget, prioritizing Action RPG Lite style.

 

[Fess]

Kinda creepy tbh

Damn dude.....that guy really been harassing you for two years? What for?

Not harassing but he’s asked about my name in private, and now he’s made up his mind that I’m Eriksson and goes on calling me that all the time thinking that he knows me or whatever. Stalker behavior I guess, but in private message he’s friendly so I don’t know what’s the deal. On the board he always have an attitude, go check his posts, typical console warrior. I’ve talked to EviLore about it. I’m just an old grey nerd up in cold ass Sweden so how interesting can I be lol?
I’ve been here for nearly 20 years, was off site for 3 years and glad to be back, pretty much everyone here is friendly and I have no problem with people having a preference but this guy is something else, always an attitude, apparently you can’t be positive about Gamepass unless you’re paid by MS

 

[Topher]

Not harassing but he’s asked about my name in private, and now he’s made up his mind that I’m Eriksson and goes on calling me that all the time thinking that he knows me or whatever. Stalker behavior I guess, but in private message he’s friendly so I don’t know what’s the deal. On the board he always have an attitude, go check his posts, typical console warrior. I’ve talked to EviLore about it. I’m just an old grey nerd up in cold ass Sweden so how interesting can I be lol?
I’ve been here for nearly 20 years, was off site for 3 years and glad to be back, pretty much everyone here is friendly and I have no problem with people having a preference but this guy is something else, always an attitude, apparently you can’t be positive about Gamepass unless you’re paid by MS

What a weirdo

 

[FoxMcChief]

What a weirdo

Yeah what a freak.

A/S/L?

 

[Mr Moose]

Not harassing but he’s asked about my name in private, and now he’s made up his mind that I’m Eriksson and goes on calling me that all the time thinking that he knows me or whatever. Stalker behavior I guess, but in private message he’s friendly so I don’t know what’s the deal. On the board he always have an attitude, go check his posts, typical console warrior. I’ve talked to EviLore about it. I’m just an old grey nerd up in cold ass Sweden so how interesting can I be lol?
I’ve been here for nearly 20 years, was off site for 3 years and glad to be back, pretty much everyone here is friendly and I have no problem with people having a preference but this guy is something else, always an attitude, apparently you can’t be positive about Gamepass unless you’re paid by MS

Him, every night.

 

[fallingdove]

The flaws became increasingly apparent for me last night when I entered Paradis for the first time and realized how dead it truly was. That was disappointing.

Which is so weird when you take a look at a game like KCD2 where the world feels alive and is constantly evolving. Not to mention KCD2 was reportedly made for half the price of Avowed.

Little things in KCD2 where if you sidetrack in the middle of a quest and keep an NPC waiting — not only does their dialogue change when you meet back up with them, if they haven’t slept, their in-cutscene animations change to reflect that they are exhausted.

A night and day difference between developers that are working on a passion project focused on RPG immersion, and a team of developers that are working on a project informed by an intern’s analysis on “what makes an RPG”.

 

[Plague Doctor]

All I know is this:

If I agree with the youtuber, they are a good expert and a trusted source. Double points if they love my hardware and/or publisher of choice.

If I disagree with them, they are a lying grifter and can go fuck themselves and you by extension for watching them. And if they besmerch the good name of my hardware and/or publisher of choice, they should be sued for liable and/or slander.

 

[nikos]

Game pretty much already peaked. I don't see it going over ~25k.

 

[RafterXL]

And of course that’s fine, I’m just not seeing enough good to justify $70. It’s flaws seem pretty apparent and backwards for a 2025 game. In that regard it does remind me a bit of Starfield.

Starfield was a better game, and was closer to what it was advertised as being. The current Avowed discourse is as positive as it will ever be, it's only downhill from here. In 2 years people will be doing RTTPs trying to reinvent that it was actually great all along and people were negative for no reason.

The flaws became increasingly apparent for me last night when I entered Paradis for the first time and realized how dead it truly was. That was disappointing. But I came into Avowed expecting very little and I found an enjoyable combat/character system even if other aspects were not that great. But for an RPG, you are correct that this game is incredibly light in 2025. Hopefully the combat and character progression will be enough for me to stick with it.

The biggest problem with Avowed is that Microsoft and Obsidian tried to make it out like this was an RPG from one of the most storied RPG developers in the industry, when it is, in fact, a Dark Messiah type game that pretends to be an RPG. If they would have leaned into what it actually is, instead of what it isn't, and promoted it as such from the beginning, you wouldn't have tons of long time RPG fans expecting one thing and getting another. This game is even more trimmed down that TOW, which was already trimmed down significantly.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Starfield was a better game, and was closer to what it was advertised as being. The current Avowed discourse is as positive as it will ever be, it's only downhill from here. In 2 years people will be doing RTTPs trying to reinvent that it was actually great all along and people were negative for no reason.

The biggest problem with Avowed is that Microsoft and Obsidian tried to make it out like this was an RPG from one of the most storied RPG developers in the industry, when it is, in fact, a Dark Messiah type game that pretends to be an RPG. If they would have leaned into what it actually is, instead of what it isn't, and promoted it as such from the beginning, you wouldn't have tons of long time RPG fans expecting one thing and getting another. This game is even more trimmed down that TOW, which was already trimmed down significantly.

Hard disagree. Exploration is much better in Avowed than The Outer Words. Have you even played both?

 

[Thebonehead]

There is a character preset that has more of skin mark than fungus. I chose that one. You can turn off showing the shit on your face either way, but then why choose to have it in the first place? It is as if someone came in later and said "let's make the stupid shit optional".

Never played as godlike subrace in PoE2 sir?

It's same there

 

[demigod]

Not harassing but he’s asked about my name in private, and now he’s made up his mind that I’m Eriksson and goes on calling me that all the time thinking that he knows me or whatever. Stalker behavior I guess, but in private message he’s friendly so I don’t know what’s the deal. On the board he always have an attitude, go check his posts, typical console warrior. I’ve talked to EviLore about it. I’m just an old grey nerd up in cold ass Sweden so how interesting can I be lol?
I’ve been here for nearly 20 years, was off site for 3 years and glad to be back, pretty much everyone here is friendly and I have no problem with people having a preference but this guy is something else, always an attitude, apparently you can’t be positive about Gamepass unless you’re paid by MS

Can we please tag Fess as Eriksson for shits and giggles?

 

[Vlodril]

Aren't there Ultima games from the 1980s which are famous for having fully realistic, immersive behaviors and day/night routines for NPCs?

Obsidian in 2025 is incapable of doing what Richard Garriott did when he was, like, age 22 in his mom's basement or something 40 years ago.

With scraps!

 

[RafterXL]

Hard disagree. Exploration is much better in Avowed than The Outer Words. Have you even played both?

What does exploration have to do with the fact that this is game 100% trimmed down from TOW? And, yes, I beat TOW and have been playing Avowed for a week now. And for as great as the exploration in this game is, it's 99% mats you find and very little loot. Avowed is a first person action game with tons of parkour, it's a shit RPG.

 

[demigod]

The issue is though most people who are interested in RPG's would prefer more in depth RPG mechanics along with better NPC's/dialogue/world building to "parkour".

I've said it before, but based on the games strengths they would have been far better off fully leaning in to them and making this an open ended action/adventure title with a strong lean in to immersive sim elements (to really add freedom to the exploration side of things).

Since when is “parkour” a strength of an RPG? Oh, never. In fact I have never played an RPG that has it.

 

[Raven117]

Here is an opinion that means nothing:

I fired it up last night off of gamepass. Trying to be as "blank slate" as I could be. Even the opening didn't grab me (and that usually is a highlight of a game). I kind of hated that it both gave me a back story "you are an outsider...something something" but then turns around and lets me pick a back story like scholar Sure, both things can be true, but it just felt jarring and weird.

Nothing about that opening felt interesting or compelling in anyway at all.