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[PeteBull]

Close.

I am guessing Indi and Hellblade 2 both had similar budgets.

Even kcd2 which is made by devs in eastern europe costed 41m usd production budget, actual statement by the dev, so total budget, including marketing had to be way more, now if we use logic and compare it to 6years long devtime of obsidian, western dev studio, we can easily say game wasnt cheaper than 200m, likely even more but minimum would be 200m.
Obsidian dev studio is located in fricken commiefornia, thats a state where salaries are substiantially higher even vs avg USA area, not to mention eastern europe salaries which are 4-5x lower, for very simple reason cost of living there is tons higer.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Ofcourse you wouldn't have. You're probably not getting paid to notice it.

Sounds like you are getting paid to downplay this game.

Even kcd2 which is made by devs in eastern europe costed 41m usd production budget, actual statement by the dev, so total budget, including marketing had to be way more, now if we use logic and compare it to 6years long devtime of obsidian, western dev studio, we can easily say game wasnt cheaper than 200m, likely even more but minimum would be 200m.
Obsidian dev studio is located in fricken commiefornia, thats a state where salaries are substiantially higher even vs avg USA area, not to mention eastern europe salaries which are 4-5x lower, for very simple reason cost of living there is tons higer.

Outer Worlds had budget of 30-40 million. Extrapolating from that. This is only slightly bigger team.

 

[Mattyp]

Even kcd2 which is made by devs in eastern europe costed 41m usd production budget, actual statement by the dev, so total budget, including marketing had to be way more, now if we use logic and compare it to 6years long devtime of obsidian, western dev studio, we can easily say game wasnt cheaper than 200m, likely even more but minimum would be 200m.
Obsidian dev studio is located in fricken commiefornia, thats a state where salaries are substiantially higher even vs avg USA area, not to mention eastern europe salaries which are 4-5x lower, for very simple reason cost of living there is tons higer.

You think Avowed cost $200m to make? There’s some brain rot in this thread.

They have released budgets in the past for obsidian games on the same scale.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sounds like you are getting paid to downplay this game.

There is no need to downplay it when there's comparisons between Avowed and Oblivion/Skyrim.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

There is no need to downplay it when there's comparisons between Avowed and Oblivion/Skyrim.

I can also post some gameplay videos from this game. Or exploration / level design snippets. Those make it look great.

 

[GHG]

You think Avowed cost $200m to make? There’s some brain rot in this thread.

They have released budgets in the past for obsidian games on the same scale.

In a pre-microsoft world avowed would have killed them with the number of reboots it had internally. The dev time for both POE1 and POE2 was 2-3 years. Avowed is something they've been working on since Microsoft acquired them.

In this situation time is a huge factor when considering the overall budget.

 

[PeteBull]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/avowed-ad-spotted-at-nyc-times-square.1680407/

doesnt look like tiny or even AA budget game to me xD
Game ccu hit new peak today 18658, still below yakuza spinoff thats already over 22k.

https://steamdb.info/app/2457220/charts/

 

[vaibhavpisal]

In a pre-microsoft world avowed would have killed them with the number of reboots it had internally. The dev time for both POE1 and POE2 was 2-3 years. Avowed is something they've been working on since Microsoft acquired them.

In this situation time is a huge factor when considering the overall budget.

Teams get bigger once they are sure what they want to make.

Reboots don’t happen during full production. That would be super dumb.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But I haven’t done that, have I?

You seem to be getting paid to hate on this. Your posts reflect that.

Because you're playing it smart.

You're way smarter than you try to appear on Gaf.
Too many subtle mannerisms, like you work in PR.

 

[GHG]

Teams get bigger once they are sure what they want to make.

Reboots don’t happen during full production. That would be super dumb.

What's even more dumb is entering production without having done any pre-production work, but yet that's exactly what happened:

That seems to have been cut by the time of Avowed's summer 2020 cinematic teaser, but development was still a quagmire. At the start of 2021, Avowed's leadership team was replaced, with Pillars of Eternity and Outer Worlds veteran Patel taking over as director. Under Patel's leadership, Avowed was further rescoped to its final "open zone" design instead of a single seamless open world. Even with Avowed's reboot in 2021, the game still struggled with having to sustain a full team's production duties without having outlined its new direction in a full preproduction period, a process Patel likened to "building the tracks while the train was moving forward." A similar jump into full production with no preproduction phase was one of the largest hurdles faced by Disco Elysium's canceled expansion pack codenamed X7.

Avowed could have been Obsidian's Redfall, with a Destiny plus Skyrim co-op multiplayer vision scrapped early in a grueling 6-year development

The great game we got instead is apparently selling well, with DLC and a sequel on the table.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Thebonehead]

Because you're playing it smart.

You're way smarter than you try to appear on Gaf.
Too many subtle mannerisms, like you work in PR.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

What's even more dumb is entering production without having done any pre-production work, but yet that's exactly what happened:

Avowed could have been Obsidian's Redfall, with a Destiny plus Skyrim co-op multiplayer vision scrapped early in a grueling 6-year development

The great game we got instead is apparently selling well, with DLC and a sequel on the table.

www.pcgamer.com

This can mean anything.

Check out Psychodyssey.

Psychonauts 2 took 6-7 yrs to build. Full production was small part of it.

In pre production they nailed movement mechanics, platforming mechanics, most of the stuff that make up gameplay. All that with a small crew.

Production cycle was when levels and art was built.

That also is not a very expensive game.

 

[GHG]

This can mean anything.

Check out Psychodyssey.

Psychonauts 2 took 6-7 yrs to build. Full production was small part of it.

In pre production they nailed movement mechanics, platforming mechanics, most of the stuff that make up gameplay. All that with a small crew.

Production cycle was when levels and art was built.

That also is not a very expensive game.

Look, I know you need to run cover for your colleagues 7 days a week, but it says right there, in black and white, that they entered full production in 2021.

You also previously told us the team is bigger than their previous biggest budget game:

Also team for this is 20% bigger than Outer Worlds, which had 35 million budget.

You can do the math but this is looking like a financial hit already.

Then there's also Sawyer himself who doesn't put the outer worlds 2 or avowed in the AA category:

Small games can be good for AAA studios, and "directly contributed" to big RPGs like Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2, says Obsidian's Josh Sawyer

Pentiment and Grounded were extremely valuable for Obsidian

www.gamesradar.com

Now you want to try and tell us the game didn't cost much and that them working on this for well over half a decade can "mean anything"? Get the fuck out of here with your disingenuous crap.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Ulimately, it's going to be all about revenue, whether it's sales or GP.

I don't believe for a second anyone here truly believes games like Avowed and Indy are financially viable.

And GP is a dead end, we all know it.

Yeah, I like this game and all, but honestly sales are not looking great. And I don't care how much "engagement" a game gets on Gamepass, I don't believe in that metric whatsoever. We'll see where things end up though. It would be nice to know the actual budget, but it's doubtful we will hear real numbers from Microsoft, sadly. I do believe it was closer to triple digits and not double, though in terms of millions. No way it was near KCD II price - different worlds in terms of cost of living, salaries, etc in California.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yeah, I like this game and all, but honestly sales are not looking great. And I don't care how much "engagement" a game gets on Gamepass, I don't believe in that metric whatsoever. We'll see where things end up though. It would be nice to know the actual budget, but it's doubtful we will hear real numbers from Microsoft, sadly. I do believe it was closer to triple digits and not double, though in terms of millions. No way it was near KCD II price - different worlds in terms of cost of living, salaries, etc in California.

Its steam CCU clearly shows what gamepass is doing.

There is a subset of steam users that are huge fan of these studios, they want to own the game and also pay for early access.

Thats why we are not seeing a huge jump after early access ends.

Everyone else is on gamepass.

 

[Fortress of Regrets]

Looks like it flopped somewhat.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Everyone else is on gamepass.

But that's not.. a great thing! From my point of view. (I'm on Gamepass, so I'm guilty)

 

[vaibhavpisal]

But that's not.. a great thing! From my point of view. (I'm on Gamepass, so I'm guilty)

That’s something Microsoft should work out, no?

If its not working for them, they can always increase the price.

 

[RespawnX]

That’s something Microsoft should work out, no?

If its not working for them, they can always increase the price.

They have increased the price and will continue to do so. Microsoft has a long history with subscription models and has almost perfected its market dominance with this system.
Gamepass is (still) the exception, they are obviously not at the point where they want to be. If they had achieved their goals, we wouldn't be paying less than 20 bucks per individual subscription/month today.

However, there is still the assumption that the lack of revenue from sales cannot be fully covered by Gamepass. It's not for nothing that the 5-day early access premium edition was completely without any additional game content this time. They need more revenue. The Steam CCU indicate a lack of success for the moment. It's a shame, because I really like the game, think it's great and there's been far too much shite talk around it.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

look at the amount of views in less than a hour

and with just a single video, asmongold destroys all the hard work by the media to spin Avowed as a success. This is why he is so hated by the them and compromised devs and some insecure gamers.
.. He has too much damn power!.

They seethe at the idea that no one is listening to or reading (taking seriously) to their little articles and opinions outside of their own friends and some industry allies. Gamers have become savvy and understand what they are trying to do.

They have no power anymore

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They have increased the price and will continue to do so. Microsoft has a long history with subscription models and has almost perfected its market dominance with this system.
Gamepass is (still) the exception, they are obviously not at the point where they want to be. If they had achieved their goals, we wouldn't be paying less than 20 bucks per individual subscription/month today.

However, there is still the assumption that the lack of revenue from sales cannot be fully covered by Gamepass. It's not for nothing that the 5-day early access premium edition was completely without any additional game content this time. They need more revenue. The Steam CCU indicate a lack of success for the moment. It's a shame, because I really like the game, think it's great and there's been far too much shite talk around it.

Even if they increase the price, subscribe when you wanna play something, then unsubscribe.

I dont think gamepass is comparable to what they do in office subscription services. I have never used them, but they kinda have a monopoly there. But not in gaming.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

look at the amount of views in less than a hour

and with just a single video, asmongold destroys all the hard work by the media to spin Avowed as a success. This is why he is so hated by the them and compromised devs and some insecure gamers.
.. He has too much damn power!.

They seethe at the idea that no one is listening to or reading (taking seriously) to their little articles and opinions outside of their own friends and some industry allies. Gamers have become savvy and understand what they are trying to do.

They have no power anymore

A lot of haters got baited by that 0 in the thumbnail.

Never seen anyone celebrate getting grifted like this.

 

[adamsapple]

The average day of a common chorizo on GAF

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

A lot of haters got baited by that 0 in the thumbnail.

That’s you don't understanding the Thumbnail META.

this is a variant of putting a fake tweet by the subject in question apologizing or writing what they did wrong. people understand

Never seen anyone celebrate getting grifted like this.

another misconception. Gamers are not clueless or lost, wating for someone to show them the light. No. Gamers know what's up, but they don't have a voice (media, publishers and devs) think gamers are retarded. dismiss their voice as "vocal minority, white noise, incels, alt right, cruel, transphobes*.. you name it.

these are your grifters:

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The last piece by Wokegamer is hysterical. "The way forward for video games"

(insert "you serious?" JJJ meme)

 

[simpatico]

Even kcd2 which is made by devs in eastern europe costed 41m usd production budget, actual statement by the dev, so total budget, including marketing had to be way more, now if we use logic and compare it to 6years long devtime of obsidian, western dev studio, we can easily say game wasnt cheaper than 200m, likely even more but minimum would be 200m.
Obsidian dev studio is located in fricken commiefornia, thats a state where salaries are substiantially higher even vs avg USA area, not to mention eastern europe salaries which are 4-5x lower, for very simple reason cost of living there is tons higer.

6-year dev cycle, 80 employees. Obsidian might have spent the KCD2 dev budget on taxes.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Gamers have become savvy and understand what they are trying to do.

All for the tarnishing of legacy media outlets, but what have gamers become savvy to, exactly? In this case it seems like "savvy" means attacking a game that's actually good that many of them haven't played, instead jumping on some kind of hate bandwagon. The "discourse" around this game is honestly sad, the same few tropes appear over and over, stupid comparisons that don't make much sense, etc. I don't like the mega consolidation Microsoft has managed, I don't like GamePass, but none of that prevents me from seeing that Avowed is a good game. Granted I didn't watch the video, might in a bit when I get to work though.

Even if they increase the price, subscribe when you wanna play something, then unsubscribe.

I dont think gamepass is comparable to what they do in office subscription services. I have never used them, but they kinda have a monopoly there. But not in gaming.

The closer they edge to retail prices, the less viable or optimal that kind of strategy becomes. I think GamePass is pretty terrible overall, conceptually I don't like it. The fact that I can circumvent retail with $1 2 week trial and play this game that was likely expensive to produce is exactly why. Engagement and one month subscriptions don't fill coffers and will just lead to more studios Microsoft has swallowed to pasture. Not great.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

All for the tarnishing of legacy media outlets, but what have gamers become savvy to, exactly?

"Slimy platform things":

PR Spin and Damage Control

 

[Buggy Loop]

It's funny you say that when by almost all metrics Spiderman 2 and horizon forbidden west are far better games than the game that is actually free to play on a sub, imo. Far more successful games as well in almost every metric.

Swinging in Spiderman is pure unadultered joy, hunting giant robot dinosaur always remains pure fun. Shame your bias makes you blind to fun games.

I don't play success or review scores, I play the games and make my opinions on them. Spider-man and Horizon has got to be the most fucking overrated games of the past decade bar-none, for me. Pretty telling how much this slop sells. Truely the FIFA/COD crowd has now majority of gaming stake and they want to eat slop while not massively supporting games like Bloodborne, Last Guardian, Gravity rush or Returnal which in an ideal gaming world, these should be getting the best success stories.

I managed to get to the finish line in Horizon by guilt of paying the game at launch on PC but I just couldn't for Spider-man.

Its basically every cardinal open world sin in one package. For all the shit Assassin's creed get, how the fuck these get a free pass by so called hardcore gamers that probably SHIT on ubisoft all the time.

The only fun mechanic in the game, swinging, becomes a point A to point B chore with barely any animation variety and very very simplistic to the point of being pretty brain dead at some point. Spider-man on PS2 was jankier but did a much better job to keep player attention while swinging around.

The emergent gameplay is repetitive, how many times I'll stop bandits in a car with the same sequence? Dodge bullet, get bandit out of car, dodge bullet, get bandit out of car, dodge bullet, get bandit out of car, STOP CAR SEQUENCE SMASH BUTTON. 20 times? A world that won't stop throwing meaningless content at you.

MJ stealth section? I don't even need to add to that.

Lackluster mobile ass quality minigames all over and inserted in almost all quests.

The enemies being sponges and braindead, I know in lore Peter holds on his strength because he could kill anyone in one punch but the button smash on over the most fucking mundane enemies is boring as fuck. Batman did it better and punchier. You get thrown in an arena to fight these goons in almost every missions, lazy world building. The boss were the interesting parts but there's so much slop surrounding it that I didn't even want to bother finishing.

For horizon you would think its impossible to make apocalypse dino robot boring eh? But they did. Robot dinos is definitely one of the developer's dying kid's last wishes of something cool to make. This game is the definition of braindead slugs following waypoints with yellow/white paint ledges, whispering into your ears every goddamn thing she observes that should interest the player (hint no I don't want to read 20 boring logs)

Both have the tower ubisoft thing that just unlocks a ton of icons of the same shit you've seen 10 times already in a span of a few hours playing these games.

Now if you had been here like 20 years ago, because there's literally 20 years difference between my account and yours, not including that I was here when it was gaming-age, You would perhaps remember that I was a huge PS2 sony fan. The Jak & Daxter, God of war, Ico / Shadow of the colossus, etc etc. Good fucking games. I just don't like their open world stuff, at all.

God of war 2018 was not open world and was much better imo. Not "IGN's best game of all time voted" but definitely I would rank it way way higher than Horizon & Spider-man. I finished all of it and all Valkyries. I have critiques of it that could have made it better but overall I have fond memories of it.

Returnal is amazing. I actually have to get back to it as I put it on the side but I already know I love this game from my time spent with it.

Last of us part 1 I enjoyed it a lot, still haven't finished it, I bumped off to another game. I would say at the part I was its starting to drag its feet a bit but I'll finish it for sure and I can see why it got so popular. Last of us part 2 will be bought when on PC.

Uncharted legacy of thieves was free with my AMD CPU and still haven't installed it. Will get to that. If its not Ubislop open world, good chance its good.

Ghost of tsushima, Ratchet and clank on wishlist.

Helldivers 2 seems really good but I don't game online.

So yea, "my bias makes me blind to good games", you sure nailed it neomember. I could remind you that I threw Starfield under the bus after completing it but you wouldn't remember because you were not even a member. I'm on PC and both sides are just 3rd parties. I have both of them in my library. In fact if I look at my steam library, I have more Sony games than microsoft ones if I remove the fact that many games I bought when devs were independant before Microsoft bought them such as Pillars of Eternity.

But you "tried"

 

[SimTourist]

look at the amount of views in less than a hour

and with just a single video, asmongold destroys all the hard work by the media to spin Avowed as a success. This is why he is so hated by the them and compromised devs and some insecure gamers.
.. He has too much damn power!.

They seethe at the idea that no one is listening to or reading (taking seriously) to their little articles and opinions outside of their own friends and some industry allies. Gamers have become savvy and understand what they are trying to do.

They have no power anymore

Why does he always have that dumb confused look on his face

 

[Minsc]

Because it's all mostly subjective.
And platform doesn't matter, because Playstation has it's own mediocre flops like Concord and Lego Horizon.

If you want to see what makes Avowed mediocre:

This is like the Doom vs Modern FPS game map all over again. I'd like to say it's just modern gamers have gotten worse and like games easier, but I'm not sure. I'm going to be so sad if TESVI finally released and you can create the same exact video from there again.

It was fun to watch and allowed me to put Avowed in to the "nope" category for gameplay reasons, so thanks!

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

I don't play success or review scores, I play the games and make my opinions on them. Spider-man and Horizon has got to be the most fucking overrated games of the past decade bar-none, for me. Pretty telling how much this slop sells. Truely the FIFA/COD crowd has now majority of gaming stake and they want to eat slop while not massively supporting games like Bloodborne, Last Guardian, Gravity rush or Returnal which in an ideal gaming world, these should be getting the best success stories.

I managed to get to the finish line in Horizon by guilt of paying the game at launch on PC but I just couldn't for Spider-man.

Its basically every cardinal open world sin in one package. For all the shit Assassin's creed get, how the fuck these get a free pass by so called hardcore gamers that probably SHIT on ubisoft all the time.

The only fun mechanic in the game, swinging, becomes a point A to point B chore with barely any animation variety and very very simplistic to the point of being pretty brain dead at some point. Spider-man on PS2 was jankier but did a much better job to keep player attention while swinging around.

The emergent gameplay is repetitive, how many times I'll stop bandits in a car with the same sequence? Dodge bullet, get bandit out of car, dodge bullet, get bandit out of car, dodge bullet, get bandit out of car, STOP CAR SEQUENCE SMASH BUTTON. 20 times? A world that won't stop throwing meaningless content at you.

MJ stealth section? I don't even need to add to that.

Lackluster mobile ass quality minigames all over and inserted in almost all quests.

The enemies being sponges and braindead, I know in lore Peter holds on his strength because he could kill anyone in one punch but the button smash on over the most fucking mundane enemies is boring as fuck. Batman did it better and punchier. You get thrown in an arena to fight these goons in almost every missions, lazy world building. The boss were the interesting parts but there's so much slop surrounding it that I didn't even want to bother finishing.

For horizon you would think its impossible to make apocalypse dino robot boring eh? But they did. Robot dinos is definitely one of the developer's dying kid's last wishes of something cool to make. This game is the definition of braindead slugs following waypoints with yellow/white paint ledges, whispering into your ears every goddamn thing she observes that should interest the player (hint no I don't want to read 20 boring logs)

Both have the tower ubisoft thing that just unlocks a ton of icons of the same shit you've seen 10 times already in a span of a few hours playing these games.

Now if you had been here like 20 years ago, because there's literally 20 years difference between my account and yours, not including that I was here when it was gaming-age, You would perhaps remember that I was a huge PS2 sony fan. The Jak & Daxter, God of war, Ico / Shadow of the colossus, etc etc. Good fucking games. I just don't like their open world stuff, at all.

God of war 2018 was not open world and was much better imo. Not "IGN's best game of all time voted" but definitely I would rank it way way higher than Horizon & Spider-man. I finished all of it and all Valkyries. I have critiques of it that could have made it better but overall I have fond memories of it.

Returnal is amazing. I actually have to get back to it as I put it on the side but I already know I love this game from my time spent with it.

Last of us part 1 I enjoyed it a lot, still haven't finished it, I bumped off to another game. I would say at the part I was its starting to drag its feet a bit but I'll finish it for sure and I can see why it got so popular. Last of us part 2 will be bought when on PC.

Uncharted legacy of thieves was free with my AMD CPU and still haven't installed it. Will get to that. If its not Ubislop open world, good chance its good.

Ghost of tsushima, Ratchet and clank on wishlist.

Helldivers 2 seems really good but I don't game online.

So yea, "my bias makes me blind to good games", you sure nailed it neomember. I could remind you that I threw Starfield under the bus after completing it but you wouldn't remember because you were not even a member. I'm on PC and both sides are just 3rd parties. I have both of them in my library. In fact if I look at my steam library, I have more Sony games than microsoft ones if I remove the fact that many games I bought when devs were independant before Microsoft bought them such as Pillars of Eternity.

But you "tried"

So you feel validated because you have been on this forum longer? Lmao. Also, everything you don't like is a slop, man you are basically the meme, "old man yells at clouds"

Even if you ignore the story side, Spiderman kept throwing new enemies. Each collectible had memory attached to it. The swinging never got old. Sorry we aren't all old and jaded like you. There was so much animation variety in the game that I wonder if you have even played it. The enemies being bullet sponges? What? Did you even interact with the combat properly? You kill most enemies in seconds. Also, your reason for the game being repetitive are the optional random generated crimes. Not even side activities or missions but the random generated crimes that you can easily ignore. It's like racing with the same car at the same track in a racing game dozens of times and complaining the game doesn't have content and is repetitive. You play as Spiderman, you are meant to go and fight goons? What do you want spidey to do? Drive cars and shoot up a store?. The kep to keeping the gameplay fresh was the gradual introduction of new events and how side missions tried different stuff to keep gameplay fresh. You could also describe any batman game as going to a location and fighting thugs. You could describe most games as that, "bloodborne is lame, you just fight enemies every location you go to", Lol. So you didn't bother to finish a 15 hour story got it.

The beauty of horizon was the different gadgets and how unique each dino was. If you don't play on easy, you had to keep changing your strategy because how different make up of enemies changed priority levels. Boring logs? Yeah no. Horizon has some of the most interesting logs in gaming, especially the reveal of project zero dawn and how it was handled. Even in forbidden west, with the outcome of ted faro and the zeniths. Forbidden west so many varied side content. Each camp is different in varied ways. The world is full of life, something that can't be said for avowed at all, a game wherein NPCs don't even move or react. So many different biomes and machines. You blame horizon for having painted ledges, how the fuck is avowed better with it having hanging ropes everywhere? Painted ledges make sense with horizon lore and how it is made up of tribes that paint everything. You can see due workshops and paintings, that's called adding details. As for alloy reacting to stuff? Sorry not every game can be lifeless and soulless. Good characters react to event, not act like mannequins. Shame you don't know considering how long you have been here.

Also, funny that both games have better story, side content, interactivity and gameplay when compared to avowed.

How does your past concern me, lol? I am just pointing my opinion regarding what I feel is a brain dead take.

Lat of us 2 is already on pc. It has great gameplay and is semi-linear.

Again I don't care for your history nor what platform you play as. I just find it funny that you call games like horizon and Spiderman slogs when by almost every metric avowed is worse than them at every major thing that makes a game good, gameplay, story, enemy AI, content, etc.

 

[Kacho]

Gamers know what's up, but they don't have a voice

We didn't have a voice until Asmongold came around, that's for sure. His sensible takes on controversial topics is why his popularity exploded.

Speaking of, he's fucking killing it in this video. It's less about shitting on Avowed and more about how modern games don't pass the vibe check, which is 100% true. SoyTubers like Kyle Bossman will never touch on this stuff.

 

[Buggy Loop]

This is like the Doom vs Modern FPS game map all over again. I'd like to say it's just modern gamers have gotten worse and like games easier, but I'm not sure. I'm going to be so sad if TESVI finally released and you can create the same exact video from there again.

It was fun to watch and allowed me to put Avowed in to the "nope" category for gameplay reasons, so thanks!

And then what would happen if they made that kind of video comparison with Mass Effect, Witcher 3, KCD, Dragon dogma 2 and Elden ring?

These mechanic adders didn't save Starfield's fundamentals. Mass effect you can't kill anyone in the Citadel. KCD/DD2 the NPCs respawn so what consequence? What does it bring?

Same for physics, all the above games have pretty much 99% static props. KCD as much as I love their emergent AI loop, almost everything is nailed down in the world and you have a text prompt with almost no visual cue suddently as you explore that oh, you can loot here, opens a box.

They would all look silly compared to Creation engine because creation engine is a unique thing in gaming world. Nobody does what it does.

Its as if we compare every adventure game to Zelda's BOTW / ToTK from now on. There's physics videos done to compared BOTW to Zelda Horizon zero dawn and it really doesn't fucking matter in the end, slapping arrow physics in Horizon would not have changed my opinion of it.

Comparison is the thief of joy

 

[lifa-cobex]

I wouldn’t have noticed this stuff if you hadn’t posted it here.

Just like I don’t expect this stuff in From Soft games.

You really wouldn't notice things like the NPC's none reactions to anything?

That seem like pretty big oversight.
I have absolutely no dog is this fight but I would expect that as a fundamental to making a town feel alive.

If you attack an NPC in a From Soft game. They react. Most people know this because they have tried it as a basic feature.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Because it's all mostly subjective.
And platform doesn't matter, because Playstation has it's own mediocre flops like Concord and Lego Horizon.

If you want to see what makes Avowed mediocre:

I can't believe "combat" is a comparison in this video that time is spent on. Yes, Oblivion, with the super spongy enemies with no hit reaction, no feeling of feedback, and level scaling so you just swipe over and over is somehow.. worth comparing to. I love Oblivion to death, but combat is not the strong suite of the game. As far as I'm concerned it was a downgrade from Morrowind even, though I like the hitchance mechanics of Morrowind. So stupid. Oblivion's combat sucks compared to Avowed, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Fess]

Ulimately, it's going to be all about revenue, whether it's sales or GP.

I don't believe for a second anyone here truly believes games like Avowed and Indy are financially viable.

And GP is a dead end, we all know it.

Sure but they’re doing changes that will pull in more money and fill in previous holes, going forward they’ll be day 1 on PS5, that’ll grow the potential customer number with 75 million, and they’ll no doubt do Switch 2 versions too whenever it’s possible.

 

[Kacho]

A lot of haters got baited by that 0 in the thumbnail.

Never seen anyone celebrate getting grifted like this.

You should watch the video.

Timestamped at 1:04:41 where he talks about the "vibe crisis" we're in. He's so on point.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You really wouldn't notice things like the NPC's none reactions to anything?

That seem like pretty big oversight.
I have absolutely no dog is this fight but I would expect that as a fundamental to making a town feel alive.

If you attack an NPC in a From Soft game. They react. Most people know this because they have tried it as a basic feature.

I wouldn’t because I never try to attack those in non GTA games.

I do try to talk to them

I would have noticed them just standing there, figured out there was nothing else interesting to do with them, then moved on. Plenty of games I play do that.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sure but they’re doing changes that will pull in more money and fill in previous holes, going forward they’ll be day 1 on PS5, that’ll grow the potential customer number with 75 million, and they’ll no doubt do Switch 2 versions too whenever it’s possible.

Yeah, but the question is how much PS5 can help.

With their output as of late, it won't be nearly enough.
Just look at Tango.

The bar is a lot higher on Playstation, especially since Xbox 1st party will now directly compete with Sony on the same platform.

 

[Buggy Loop]

So you feel validated because you have been on this forum longer? Lmao. Also, everything you don't like is a slop, man you are basically the meme, "old man yells at clouds"

Because you put me in a neat little box with a tag on it but you don't fucking know me

Even if you ignore the story side, Spiderman kept throwing new enemies. Each collectible had memory attached to it. The swinging never got old. Sorry we aren't all old and jaded like you. There was so much animation variety in the game that I wonder if you have even played it. The enemies being bullet sponges? What? Did you even interact with the combat properly? You kill most enemies in seconds. Also, your reason for the game being repetitive are the optional random generated crimes. Not even side activities or missions but the random generated crimes that you can easily ignore. It's like racing with the same car at the same track in a racing game dozens of times and complaining the game doesn't have content and is repetitive. You play as Spiderman, you are meant to go and fight goons? What do you want spidey to do? Drive cars and shoot up a store?. The kep to keeping the gameplay fresh was the gradual introduction of new events and how side missions tried different stuff to keep gameplay fresh. You could also describe any batman game as going to a location and fighting thugs. You could describe most games as that, "bloodborne is lame, you just fight enemies every location you go to", Lol. So you didn't bother to finish a 15 hour story got it.
The beauty of horizon was the different gadgets and how unique each dino was. If you don't play on easy, you had to keep changing your strategy because how different make up of enemies changed priority levels. Boring logs? Yeah no. Horizon has some of the most interesting logs in gaming, especially the reveal of project zero dawn and how it was handled. Even in forbidden west, with the outcome of ted faro and the zeniths. Forbidden west so many varied side content. Each camp is different in varied ways. The world is full of life, something that can't be said for avowed at all, a game wherein NPCs don't even move or react. So many different biomes and machines. You blame horizon for having painted ledges, how the fuck is avowed better with it having hanging ropes everywhere? Painted ledges make sense with horizon lore and how it is made up of tribes that paint everything. You can see due workshops and paintings, that's called adding details. As for alloy reacting to stuff? Sorry not every game can be lifeless and soulless. Good characters react to event, not act like mannequins. Shame you don't know considering how long you have been here.

I know its very hard to conceptualize Ubislop but glad you love it. I hope you have AC shadows pre-ordered. The finest slop cuisine in gaming world.

Also, funny that both games have better story, side content, interactivity and gameplay when compared to avowed.

Marvel and Horizon story?

For a teenage fanfic maybe

How does your past concern me, lol? I am just pointing my opinion regarding what I feel is a brain dead take.

I don't like those open worlds. End of story. No matter how many times you repeat that you LOVED the web slinging or that you LOVED the minigame mobile ass tier puzzles or how you LOVED button smashing goons 1000 times, It won't change a thing.

And I'm not the only one finding those games average.

Lat of us 2 is already on pc. It has great gameplay and is semi-linear.

April 3rd 2025.. already on PC.. ok

I already said I liked TLoU part 1 and will likely buy TLoU part 2 even though it has a LOT of controversy that game doesn't it? 5.8 user critic HMMMMMmmmmmmm But nevermind that, I don't follow grifter talking points that are all telling me this game is woke and should not play it its a disaster, naughty dog is dead, etc. Maybe you could take example.

Again I don't care for your history nor what platform you play as. I just find it funny that you call games like horizon and Spiderman slogs when by almost every metric avowed is worse than them at every major thing that makes a game good, gameplay, story, enemy AI, content, etc.

You talk a lot about something you haven't played though, while I have.

Topher Gonzito DownLikeBCPowder Mister Wolf and probably a shitload more I am forgetting in the OT were skeptical of this game. They're enjoying it. GOTY? Probably not. But they're enjoying it.

I'm enjoying it more than my 75h playthrough of KCD 1 that I finished last week. Would I rate it above KCD? No. As there's respect for what KCD is trying to do and is completely alone in its own sim-RPG genre and I appreciate that. But fun is fun , it can sometimes take over whatever review score it was thrown at. I'm sure there's a ton of peoples enjoying Yakuza pirate even with a 79 metacritic. I don't see you trolling them, how come?

 

[PeteBull]

We didn't have a voice until Asmongold came around, that's for sure. His sensible takes on controversial topics is why his popularity exploded.

Speaking of, he's fucking killing it in this video. It's less about shitting on Avowed and more about how modern games don't pass the vibe check, which is 100% true. SoyTubers like Kyle Bossman will never touch on this stuff.

Yups, games, especially made by many western dev studios, became barbie movie, made by women or male feminists for women, we are men, we want gore, brutality, blood, sex, violence, we want manly men and femine looking and behaving women.
Here example of smart western dev studio that doesnt push woke agenda and listens to its customers instead:

Warhammer 40K: Space Marine 2 and Ace Combat 7 have sold 6 million copies each

Focus Entertainment and Bandai Namco have announced that Warhammer 40K: Space Marine 2 and Ace Combat 7 have sold 6 million copies.

www.dsogaming.com

Focus Entertainment and Bandai Namco have announced that Warhammer 40K: Space Marine 2 and Ace Combat 7 have sold 6 million copies.

Sales numbers speak for themselfs, no need for dmg control articles about "mild success" there
And guess what, steam ccu for space marine 2 is anything but proper:

https://steamdb.info/app/2183900/charts/

 

[vaibhavpisal]

The closer they edge to retail prices, the less viable or optimal that kind of strategy becomes. I think GamePass is pretty terrible overall, conceptually I don't like it. The fact that I can circumvent retail with $1 2 week trial and play this game that was likely expensive to produce is exactly why. Engagement and one month subscriptions don't fill coffers and will just lead to more studios Microsoft has swallowed to pasture. Not great.

I was under the impression they had stopped doing $1 promotions.

Either ways, if I find something to be good value, I tend to use it again and even top it up with good purchases.

This month alone I will be getting KCD 2 and MH Wilds, on top of Avowed. If I save somewhere, I invest in something else on the system.

 

[Topher]

Yeah, but the question is how much PS5 can help.

With their output as of late, it won't be nearly enough.
Just look at Tango.

The bar is a lot higher on Playstation, especially since Xbox 1st party will now directly compete with Sony on the same platform.

I think it will help a great deal just by the fact of having one massive launch across all systems rather than this staggered shit. We've seen multiple examples of how that doesn't work, with a few exceptions. You've really got one chance at generating launch hype for a game. Not saying that would have made Avowed a success specfically. Avowed just isn't connecting with a lot of people and that may go back to what asmongold is saying about a "vibe crisis" in the video Kacho posted. I wasn't thrilled with the vibe until I actually played the game. Either way, more platforms day one means a bigger launch and more excitement. Microsoft lost that with both Avowed and Indiana Jones.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think it will help a great deal just by the fact of having one massive launch across all systems rather than this staggered shit. We've seen multiple examples of how that doesn't work, with a few exceptions. You've really got one chance at generating launch hype for a game. Not saying that would have made Avowed a success specfically. Avowed just isn't connecting with a lot of people and that may go back to what asmongold is saying about a "vibe crisis" in the video Kacho posted. I wasn't thrilled with the vibe until I actually played the game. Either way, more platforms day one means a bigger launch and more excitement. Microsoft lost that with both Avowed and Indiana Jones.

And what if day 1 launches don't matter much, outside of something like COD or TES?

Because chances of that happening are higher than those day 1 Xbox releases selling like 10M copies.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

You should watch the video.

Timestamped at 1:04:41 where he talks about the "vibe crisis" we're in. He's so on point.

I agree with him on this and think there are obvious reasons why that is, but don't agree that Avowed fits that bill. It very much is in line with the world as depicted in previous titles, which again, I think do not meet this modern "vibe problem". I wonder - has Asmon played Pillars of Eternity or the sequel? Does he even like CRPGs in that style? Not sure. I don't have any problem with Asmon, though.

I was under the impression they had stopped doing $1 promotions.

Guess not.

 

[Buggy Loop]

has Asmon played Pillars of Eternity or the sequel? Does he even like CRPGs in that style? Not sure.

I don't see a single video of him playing PoE nope. Not surprised, his business is streaming and big views. Isometric cRPGs aren't quite that.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You should watch the video.

Timestamped at 1:04:41 where he talks about the "vibe crisis" we're in. He's so on point.

I get it.

But am filtering it out as of now.

Just watched some amazing shows that had it. But …. Not sure if its worth it to discard everything else.

 

[Topher]

I was under the impression they had stopped doing $1 promotions.

They only stopped during the BOP6 launch window

And what if day 1 launches don't matter much, outside of something like COD or TES?

Because chances of that happening are higher than those day 1 Xbox releases selling like 10M copies.

I think adding 70+ million consoles to your launch will matter. Doesn't mean it will sell 10 million copies, but it could sell half that and still be doing better than it is now.

 

[Minsc]

And then what would happen if they made that kind of video comparison with Mass Effect, Witcher 3, KCD, Dragon dogma 2 and Elden ring?

These mechanic adders didn't save Starfield's fundamentals. Mass effect you can't kill anyone in the Citadel. KCD/DD2 the NPCs respawn so what consequence? What does it bring?

Same for physics, all the above games have pretty much 99% static props. KCD as much as I love their emergent AI loop, almost everything is nailed down in the world and you have a text prompt with almost no visual cue suddently as you explore that oh, you can loot here, opens a box.

They would all look silly compared to Creation engine because creation engine is a unique thing in gaming world. Nobody does what it does.

Its as if we compare every adventure game to Zelda's BOTW / ToTK from now on. There's physics videos done to compared BOTW to Zelda Horizon zero dawn and it really doesn't fucking matter in the end, slapping arrow physics in Horizon would not have changed my opinion of it.

Comparison is the thief of joy

The settings are so similar and I've played 100s of hours of Oblivion, and parts like the Guards being OP and stealing and entering any building are all pretty sweet.

Mass Effect didn't bother me because I didn't go in expecting to be transported to a medieval world, and it feels quite a bit different, there's not towns like Oblivion with thousands of building to explore, or sprawling dungeons at every corner.

Despite being literally infinitely larger and taking up a large percentage of the universe, Oblivion still feels a vastly larger game, with more depth behind it.

ME absolutely fails in comparison to Oblivion, but I enjoyed it more as an action / exploration / adventure game than an open world RPG like Oblivion.

If Avowed is not an open world RPG like Oblivion, then the comparison does fall a bit short, but it sure as hell looks like one.