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[Fess]

I mean ultimately, they should have bowed out when they had the chance to not buy ABK. CMA did they a massive favor and they could have walked away.

They could have focused on buying studios that make games that would have thrived as exclusive titles.

They also could have waited things out and made CoD console exclusive when they had the chance after the 10 year period and looked to see if that sold more units. At least then they could have tried to leverage Sony for lower royalties when the time comes to go 3rd party.

Once word hits the casuals we're going to see even more rapid decline in xbox sales. Xbox isn't selling well, but it can get a lot worse.

I think it was already too late, essentially it was already over last generation when they started doing PC ports. I remember when PS fans said that Xbox weren’t needed anymore since the games were on PC, this was before Steam day 1 but it was still a path taken that changed everything, changed the talk. I bought a PC around that time, wanted the best version of everything, enjoyed Forza Horizon 3 in roughly 70fps on three screens when Xbox One only played it in 30fps. For me it was over right there, Xbox became a cheap alternative.

Fast forward and now they have everything day 1 on Steam, the console is there but not really for enthusiasts, everything is better on PC now. And now they have ABK and is a big publisher instead. The transition is brutal for platform fans but I think it’s the only way forward unless they just axe the whole gaming department at MS.

 

[sendit]

This game plays like a PS2 game. Incredibly static world.

 

[DenchDeckard]

next, South of Midnight, then AssCreed Shadow and hopefully intergalactic too

Intergalactic is guaranteed. Look at the protag and studio.

It will still sell well but I don't think it is going to do as well as their other games unless the gameplay is truly incredible.

 

[Pelao]

This game plays like a PS2 game. Incredibly static world.

Hey, come on now. GTA III had a more alive and reactive world, and that's a PS2 game from 2001.

 

[yazenov]

I hope it flops

It's a flop already. No hopes are needed whatsoever.

 

[xenosys]

I went with 30k CCUs on the poll. Seems I greatly over-estimated it's Steam performance.

 

[PropellerEar]

OP dreamed big with those CCUs.

Avowed

 

[Three]

Are we expecting Avowed to be pulled from all marketplaces and everyone refunded?

Probably a joke but Avowed isn't a game that promised content drop support or has server costs so no reason to refund people or pull the game from stores no matter how it does.

On a related note, we still had to have a year of people not getting their paid content and pretending Redfall isn't a disaster by some until they decided it was legally time to partially refund just the bite back edition buyers after studio closure. And they still sell it for £38 to people.



Not stopping people buying a dead game and refunding early when you can't deliver on what you sold is a disservice. Hell MS still sell Bleeding Edge for £25 on Steam and there are literally 0 players on it. Even less likely to ever happen to Avowed since nothing was promised and it doesn't need players.

 

[Thebonehead]

Their post history is a noun, a verb and "DEI", I think that might have something to do with it.

Did you just assume her identity. Her pronouns are shit / poster

 

[Dazraell]

Did you just assume her identity. Her pronouns are shit / poster

 

[PeteBull]

I was one of 11 delulu ppl here who hoped/wanted avoved to break 50k ccu , obviously we all got collectively bamboozled hard, almost as hard as ppl who bought the game( so not prof journos/reviewers- those fkers lied about game quality coz its their job, obviously while getting game codes early, and for free- hence the incentive to lie).
https://steamdb.info/app/2457220/charts/ 19198 final peak

 

[TintoConCasera]

So it's a Burguer King Double Whooper® Cheese menu in videogame form huh.

My condolences.

 

[Dazraell]

I was one of 11 delulu ppl here who hoped/wanted avoved to break 50k ccu , obviously we all got collectively bamboozled hard, almost as hard as ppl who bought the game( so not prof journos/reviewers- those fkers lied about game quality coz its their job, obviously while getting game codes early, and for free- hence the incentive to lie).
https://steamdb.info/app/2457220/charts/ 19198 final peak

Wasn't the initial review rating over 80%? Damn, now it's 76%

 

[PeteBull]

Wasn't the initial review rating over 80%? Damn, now it's 76%

Reviewers who didnt get early free review copy obviously are less biased so give proper/harsher score to the game, hence the drop in overall metactitic score.
For comparision previous obsidian game, the outer worlds, is sitting at 85 metascore, so we can tell right away avoved substantially worse quality wise.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/the-outer-worlds/ 85
https://www.metacritic.com/game/avowed/ 80

 

[Dazraell]

Reviewers who didnt get early free review copy obviously are less biased so give proper/harsher score to the game, hence the drop in overall metactitic score.
For comparision previous obsidian game, the outer worlds, is sitting at 85 metascore, so we can tell right away avoved substantially worse quality wise.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/the-outer-worlds/ 85
https://www.metacritic.com/game/avowed/ 80

Yeah I get that, but I was referring to ratings % based on Steam reviews

 

[PeteBull]

Yeah I get that, but I was referring to ratings % based on Steam reviews

it had 80% at 3k reviews, now at 5k its 76% so we can extrapolate those last 2k reviews were at least honest, probably judgeg game around 60's so its actual quality- definitely not worth to buy full price at launch, and i say it as a guy who loves western rpg genre.

 

[SweetTooth]

Ofcourse you wouldn't have. You're probably getting paid not to notice it.

 

[Orbital2060]

Its at #9 on most played on xbox, top singleplayer game amidst all the gaas games.

All of the achievemnts I got far are not rare and tells us that the game is played by a lot of people on xbox/pc (=Game Pass) and they are clearing the game.

 

[StereoVsn]

If budget of game was 40 million, then 500k sales and gamepass revenue should make the game viable.

This game was rebooted twice and took 6 years. Started at 80 devs and probably went up after 2nd reboot. So let’s say ballpark 100 devs over the timespan (contractors, additional QA, and so on).

They are based in US. So let’s go for average $150K a year including incidentals (health insurance, 401k, etc). 6 year development like that will eat around $90mil in salaries alone. Add in office space, hardware, software, etc.

This game was over $100mil to develop and that doesn’t include marketing. Reason a game like say KCD2 could pull off a $40-50 mil budget is that their salaries were probably half or less (EU so health insurance provided by Gov or fairly cheap as an example).

 

[StereoVsn]

I do wonder how would MS evaluates success with games like Avowed. This game was likely over $150mil to develop and market. Sales on Xbox itself and Steam are basically inconsequential judging by the info available (Steam CCUs). So how do they determine that $150mil+ and 6 years of the dev opportunity cost was worth it?

I am not being snarky, just thinking if I was MS exec what determination would I use? GamePass “Engagement”, meaning people theoretically keep their subs longer?

It wouldn’t be new subs as Avowed isn’t a game to drive more than a month of a spike at best (and I have some doubts about even a monthly spike). And $150mil+ seems pricey to just have more varied GamePass catalog.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

I do wonder how would MS evaluates success with games like Avowed. This game was likely over $150mil to develop and market. Sales on Xbox itself and Steam are basically inconsequential judging by the info available (Steam CCUs). So how do they determine that $150mil+ and 6 years of the dev opportunity cost was worth it?

I am not being snarky, just thinking if I was MS exec what determination would I use? GamePass “Engagement”, meaning people theoretically keep their subs longer?

It wouldn’t be new subs as Avowed isn’t a game to drive more than a month of a spike at best (and I have some doubts about even a monthly spike). And $150mil+ seems pricey to just have more varied GamePass catalog.

Money.

Ignore the echo chambers, companies know these games were massive failures, even if they get good reviews.

If they recoup 20% of their investment on this, it would be a very good day for them.

 

[StereoVsn]

Money.

Ignore the echo chambers, companies know these games were massive failures, even if they get good reviews.

If they recoup 20% of their investment on this, it would be a very good day for them.

But I mean it can’t be just $$$ money made since besides Starfield I don’t think any of the recent GamePass titles (outside Forza or Flight Sim) sold well.

They have to have some sort internal GamePass metrics to keep throwing a lot of cash at the studios.

 

[PeteBull]

But I mean it can’t be just $$$ money made since besides Starfield I don’t think any of the recent GamePass titles (outside Forza or Flight Sim) sold well.

They have to have some sort internal GamePass metrics to keep throwing a lot of cash at the studios.

There is a reason xbox going 3rd party, they make shit all on selling most of their games nowadays, peak was starfield and its crazy ride downhill from there.

 

[damidu]

But I mean it can’t be just $$$ money made since besides Starfield I don’t think any of the recent GamePass titles (outside Forza or Flight Sim) sold well.

They have to have some sort internal GamePass metrics to keep throwing a lot of cash at the studios.

what did you expect them to do, all these financial flops (redfall, forza, indy, hellblade, avowed etc ) were long in development. it was point of no return when they did come out to flop back to back.

panic pivot to full third party was the only thing they could do at that point.
even then they couldn't fix their dev pipelines in time and left all the money on the table by missing day1 PS5 launches left and right.

you'll likely see the effects of these flops in future projects of their studios going forward.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

This game plays like a PS2 game. Incredibly static world.

This is the vibe I got about the game when I started my play through. It’s like devs aren’t learning from what was done in the past. Video games should be evolving and it makes no sense to be in 2025 and playing a game that isn’t even advanced as the stuff we played decades before.

I’m glad Xbox is getting games out but unfortunately most of these games have been terrible.

 

[Orbital2060]

Gane Pass *is* their focus and business now.

It makes zero sense to gauge success by sales, when millions of people are playing on game pass.

 

[TintoConCasera]

it's very satisfying even being a warrior

 

[Kvally]

Looks like Steam US only charts hit 19,100 this weekend. Premium Edition is #9 on Xbox best sellers. 4th most popular game on Game Pass right now. 82 top critic average and 85 critics recommend according to OpenCritic. I am enjoying the game so far! I did get sidetracked with PGA Tour 2K25 this weekend though. Spring fever.

 

[adamsapple]

Are we expecting Avowed to be pulled from all marketplaces and everyone refunded?

In his restless dreams, he sees that bomb, Concord.

 

[Topher]

Reviewers who didnt get early free review copy obviously are less biased so give proper/harsher score to the game, hence the drop in overall metactitic score.
For comparision previous obsidian game, the outer worlds, is sitting at 85 metascore, so we can tell right away avoved substantially worse quality wise.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/the-outer-worlds/ 85
https://www.metacritic.com/game/avowed/ 80

Every game is given away for free to reviewers, including Outer Worlds.

 

[adamsapple]

Every game is given away for free to reviewers, including Outer Worlds.

He really thinks reviewers, who often have access to game codes WEEKS before release, are paying money for them?

That reminds me, my bridge store has a grand opening soon.

 

[Wildebeest]

I think the dev team of AssCreed Shadows is around 2,000 people or something insane like that

It's been 13 years and Skyrim is still going strong. This is the beating heart of a champion

This is the 2016 Special Edition of the game btw, the OG 2011 release has been delisted from Steam

You can add a couple of thousand from people who couldn't be bothered to upgrade. And the peak CCU was over 280k. Steam had a much smaller user base then, but Skyrim retail was a steamworks game, so steam was required. I think they said that Baldur's Gate 3 had 400 people working on it, and they were spread all over the world, so there was a lot of management. But Larian did not have a California office. I am sceptical of how much "scaling up" is endless meetings and arseholes spending their whole days coming up with reasons why cool things shouldn't even be tried to protect their little private empire.

 

[STARSBarry]

I noticed something really interesting about these two games, while releasing near the same time and having the same number of steam players, one game has much larger lows than the other.

Avowed

Pirate Yakuza

Yakuza appears to have a much more stable playerbase while Avowed appears to only spike at specific times and then rapidly fall of. This suggests that it is only popular in specific areas, rather than worldwide, you know like the coasts of America.

 

[TintoConCasera]

STARSBarry yeah I can see the asian public not giving a fuck abot Avowed.

 

[Wildebeest]

Yakuza appears to have a much more stable playerbase while Avowed appears to only spike at specific times and then rapidly fall of. This suggests that it is only popular in specific areas, rather than worldwide, you know like the coasts of America.

Yakuza probably has more appeal to Asian markets, so the daily fluctuation will be smoother.

 

[yazenov]

Gane Pass *is* their focus and business now.

It makes zero sense to gauge success by sales, when millions of people are playing on game pass.

Sales don't matter. Where have we heard this before?

 

[Orbital2060]

If a movie launches on dvd/bluray and Netflix at the same time, do you sit and count how many discs it sell when most everyøne will watch it on Netflix?

 

[TintoConCasera]

If a movie launches on dvd/bluray and Netflix at the same time, do you sit and count how many discs it sell when most everyøne will watch it on Netflix?

If nobody gives a fuck about the dvd/blueray, would you assume there's tons of people watching on Netflix?

 

[yazenov]

If a movie launches on dvd/bluray and Netflix at the same time, do you sit and count how many discs it sell when most everyøne will watch it on Netflix?

Gamepass whishes it could be the netflix of gaming. Its insignificant in comparison to Netflix (userbase). If sales dont matter, then why is MS going 3rd party and releasing most of their games on PS5 and other platforms going forward?

Nevermind, ill answer that for you. Because Gamepass userbase growth has stalled and is a tiny fraction of the market in terms of revenue. Its not sustainable for MS.

Why did MS close many studios like the one who developed High-Fi Rush ? It did well on Gamepass apparently, but not well enough to keep the lights on.

We were told that hardware sales don't matter, and now we got MS exclusive games coming to PS5 because of their tiny unsustainable userbase. Now software sales don't matter even when most of their games will be on all platform day one. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

 

[ResilientBanana]

It's easy to hate... forced hatred
,.

You are right; people who "hate" this game are not being forced to. No one is bending over backward to find something to "hate", something to criticize

And I don't know if you are out of the loop but the conversation around the game (after the official launch) has been overwhelmingly focused on they quality of the game, its falirue to reach mass market success and the spin/damage control by the media.

Dissect my words any way you like. it’s easy to hate a game and the hate started before it even came out. Hating on games hard is a huge trend right now, in most cases it's warrented. The forced nature of the hatred is when you start making comparison videos with another game that are not the same game. Skyrim is a simulation. This game is not. Quite frankly, many people that have actually played this game have enjoyed it immensely.

that being said sure bugs happen Skyrim is full of them, but it doesn’t appear that anybody’s focusing on that at all. Most of the bugs are still there and can be replicated. But that’s OK with everybody.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

If nobody gives a fuck about the dvd/blueray, would you assume there's tons of people watching on Netflix?

Its a pretty safe bet a ton more people would be willing to give it a shot if its on Netflix (like I did) vs having to actually buy it (which I wouldn't have)

 

[StereoVsn]

what did you expect them to do, all these financial flops (redfall, forza, indy, hellblade, avowed etc ) were long in development. it was point of no return when they did come out to flop back to back.

panic pivot to full third party was the only thing they could do at that point.
even then they couldn't fix their dev pipelines in time and left all the money on the table by missing day1 PS5 launches left and right.

you'll likely see the effects of these flops in future projects of their studios going forward.

That’s why I am wondering how do games like Avowed come into this picture. It won’t sell particularly well. Day 1 PS5 release would help some but the game is fairly generic so won’t stand out that much.

It’s a GamePass targeted title but the cost is of AAA game. Which is why I am interested in what are the internal Microsoft metrics?

There has to be some reason MS is green lighting these titles. Obsidian even got Outer Worlds 2 coming out soon which should be similar in scope and sales.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Its a pretty safe bet a ton more people would be willing to give it a shot if its on Netflix (like I did) vs having to actually buy it (which I wouldn't have)

Yes, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of people playing it on Netflix Gamepass.

 

[Orbital2060]

If nobody gives a fuck about the dvd/blueray, would you assume there's tons of people watching on Netflix?

Of course. The market economy has changed. People dont care about discs anymore, same thing with gaming.

And if (or rather when) Sony put first party on ps+ you will see exactly the same ratios there.

 

[adamsapple]

Yes, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of people playing it on Netflix Gamepass.

It is currently the third top game on Game Pass behind Call of Duty and Minecraft.

A lot of people are playing it on Game Pass.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yes, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of people playing it on Netflix Gamepass.

Maybe but for anyone here that's purely a guess

 

[yazenov]

It is currently the third top game on Game Pass behind Call of Duty and Minecraft.

A lot of people are playing it on Game Pass.

Gamepass is like pond in a tiny garden . It doesn't mean much if its the biggest fish in that pond.

Steam and PS5 are where the whales are living.

 

[Orbital2060]

I meant miilions have access to it on game pass. Not that all of them are playing Avowed.

 

[adamsapple]

Gamepass is like pond in a tiny garden . It doesn't mean much if its the biggest fish in that pond.

Steam and PS5 are where the whales are living.

I answered the very specific question about people not playing it on GP. It's only behind the juggernauts that are CoD and Minecraft, it's ahead of other very popular games like R6 Siege, so in this window, a lot of people are in-fact playing the game on GP.

Which makes all the sense.

 

[Orbital2060]

It is currently the third top game on Game Pass behind Call of Duty and Minecraft.

A lot of people are playing it on Game Pass.

Most of the people on this forum seem to be playing via game pass