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[DeepEnigma]

Those shows were good... There wouldn't have been a Fresh Prince of there wasn't a Cosby Show. Think about it... A wealthy black doctor and a black lawyer living where they did with 5 kids who were all articulate and good looking (Rudy is a fine ass woman now) was unheard of in 1984 but it was a success due to Bill's uncontroversial reputation... But he made it a point to highlight black culture and history.

Sanford & Son and Good Times and The Jeffersons were great shows and were great for their time. I'll do you one better and list Julia starring Diahann Carrol

They were some of my favorite shows growing up as a kid. Along with I Dream of Genie, Bewitched, All in the Family, Munsters, etc... A lot were watched via reruns, but my mother had them on, which I enjoyed with her.

Fat Albert with Picture Pages that came on after as well. I remember when I was 4 or 5 my mom had ordered me the little marker with the activity books. Vague memory, but still sticks with me. I even remember the sound from the show when he drew in my head.

 

[DeafTourette]

I'd love if that were the case. More games and movies about different cultures seem like a win for everyone. More than once I've read how there is a lack of Aztec-looking games and how cool that would be as a setting, and it's true.

Meanwhile the people in charge of this kind of stuff seems to only care about skin color , with a preference for a particular one, and nothing else, which makes no sense to me. Black elves in Rings of Power is an insult, to the fans and imo even to black people, as they are being used as a way of virtue signaling. Meanwhile a movie like Django Unchained is amazing. Go figure.


I think there was no reason to feel bad because nobody on the big screen looked like you man, but maybe we are just different on that, can't judge and I won't.

But yes, after reading your post I can see how representation can be a good thing for those being more represented. I think @Kacho put it very nicely in his previous post: representation good, but when done right.

Hope I don't sound like a racist, but I'd like to go back to Rings of Power as one of the worst cases I've seen. Why are the elves black, but only some of them? Why are people of multiple races living on the same small medieval village? Is it fucking Manhattan or what? I think there are some things that should come before representation, like historical accuracy or, in the case of a work of fiction, some respect for the lore. But yeah the elves (white or black) also had short hair so I guess they didn't know shit about the lore nor meant any respect to it.

Meanwhile nobody (or at least not me) gave two shits about CJ in San Andreas because well, it's the USA and the 90's so it makes sense there's people of all kinds over there.

And it's the same with any other particular group of people. Gays? Nobody complained about the one in TLOU because it was written like an actual person. Compare him to that thing with horns in DA:V whose whole personality is about being non-binary.

Probably just a matter of hiring better writters, which I hope will be the case once all this DEI stuff affecting hiring processes is gone.


I've added them to my list, ty.


What about Kenan & Kel? Loved that one, but it's from the 2000s I believe.

There were actual black cowboys back in the day. More than most people know. Look it up ... Django wasn't complete fiction.

Hiring in the VG Industry still needs help. GAMERS have always been diverse... The gaming industry (devs, execs, etc) hasn't. And I listed why above.

People DID complain about the lesbian relationship in TLOU2... I don't recall about the first game but I remember folks called part 2 "woke" quite clearly.


About LOTR and short hair on elves... Even the movies had them with long hair. Just throwing that out there.

I appreciate the conversation.

 

[TintoConCasera]

There were actual black cowboys back in the day. More than most people know. Look it up ... Django wasn't complete fiction.

Oh yeah, I was citing Django as an example of good representation: features the people that it represents and speaks about their history and how their lives where. The cultural kind of representation (good), not the "skin color and that's it" kind of (bad).

Hiring in the VG Industry still needs help. GAMERS have always been diverse... The gaming industry (devs, execs, etc) hasn't. And I listed why above.

I'm in favor of that change, but it should be done in a good way.

For example, DEI initiatives can help a black person find a job, which is cool, but it's done via positive-racism, basically giving them an adventage over other people, which is actually racist and bad for those being excluded. Even worse if you consider that inside the group of excluded people there might be another black person that deserved the job more than the first one.

If you ask me about hiring practices, in a perfect world? Interviews should be held with a wall put between the interviewer and the person that wants the job, and they would speak via telephone with a voice modulator to not let the other person know if they are man or woman. Same opportunities for everyone no matter who they are, only their skills for the job would matter.

People DID complain about the lesbian relationship in TLOU2... I don't recall about the first game but I remember folks called part 2 "woke" quite clearly.

Oh yeah the second game was waaaay more woke than the first one. Felt more like a lesbian drama than an actual apocalypse game. Didn't make it too far, but I doubt it would get better.

About LOTR and short hair on elves... Even the movies had them with long hair. Just throwing that out there.

No, no. The long hair is the correct one. It's in the TV series where they fucked up by giving them modern haircuts. Sure it's a dumb thing to complain about, but many times the quality of a product shines on the little details, imo.

I appreciate the conversation.

Same, it's cool to share different points of view.

 

[DeafTourette]

Oh yeah, I was citing Django as an example of good representation: features the people that it represents and speaks about their history and how their lives where. The cultural kind of representation (good), not the "skin color and that's it" kind of (bad).


I'm in favor of that change, but it should be done in a good way.

For example, DEI initiatives can help a black person find a job, which is cool, but it's done via positive-racism, basically giving them an adventage over other people, which is actually racist and bad for those being excluded. Even worse if you consider that inside the group of excluded people there might be another black person that deserved the job more than the first one.

If you ask me about hiring practices, in a perfect world? Interviews should be held with a wall put between the interviewer and the person that wants the job, and they would speak via telephone with a voice modulator to not let the other person know if they are man or woman. Same opportunities for everyone no matter who they are, only their skills for the job would matter.


Oh yeah the second game was waaaay more woke than the first one. Felt more like a lesbian drama than an actual apocalypse game. Didn't make it too far, but I doubt it would get better.


No, no. The long hair is the correct one. It's in the TV series where they fucked up by giving them modern haircuts. Sure it's a dumb thing to complain about, but many times the quality of a product shines on the little details, imo.


Same, it's cool to share different points of view.

I didn't know that about the show or maybe I forgot. I still haven't seen the second season but I hear it's kinda good (relatively) ... Season ender for season 1 was ... Eh.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I didn't know that about the show or maybe I forgot. I still haven't seen the second season but I hear it's kinda good (relatively) ... Season ender for season 1 was ... Eh.

Have watched only like half an episode of S2 but it already seemed more interesting than S1, and better done.

Maybe more so coming from House of Dragon S2 which felt boring as hell to me.

 

[DeafTourette]

Have watched only like half an episode of S2 but it already seemed more interesting than S1, and better done.

Maybe more so coming from House of Dragon S2 which felt boring as hell to me.

I can't get into House of the Dragon or even Game of Thrones... It doesn't feel like what I like to see in that era... More King Arthur and less Genghis Khan

 

[Gamer79]

You point out what the wokies cannot see.

They love to point out Archie Bunker as being racist but forget that his neighbor was just as racist the other way.

Woke Arguments are always always the same:

Rabble rabble *but white people* Rabble rabble *the Patriarchy** Rabble Rabble *We cannot be blamed for our actions is somebody else* rabble rabble.

I learned a long time ago you cannot argue or even bring these woke idiots to common sense. Many have been indoctrinated since grade school and then go to college (indoctrination camps) so their mind is so melted into this whole argument of Victims vs the Victimizes it is useless to talk sense with them. They always will point to some other race or some other gender on issues but fail to take a long hard look in the mirror. Many of their crying and many of their blaming is solely on themselves but it is easier to blame everybody and everyone else.

The say things like white privilege but fail to realize the Asian population is doing better than all races. Woke/Left = Professional Victims.

I grew up as a poor white boy in the ghetto. I can tell you that racism goes both ways. I can't count how many times I was called Honky, Cracker, White motherfucker, etc.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

You point out what the wokies cannot see.

They love to point out Archie Bunker as being racist but forget that his neighbor was just as racist the other way.

Woke Arguments are always always the same:

Rabble rabble *but white people* Rabble rabble *the Patriarchy** Rabble Rabble *We cannot be blamed for our actions is somebody else* rabble rabble.

I learned a long time ago you cannot argue or even bring these woke idiots to common sense. Many have been indoctrinated since grade school and then go to college (indoctrination camps) so their mind is so melted into this whole argument of Victims vs the Victimizes it is useless to talk sense with them. They always will point to some other race or some other gender on issues but fail to take a long hard look in the mirror. Many of their crying and many of their blaming is solely on themselves but it is easier to blame everybody and everyone else.

The say things like white privilege but fail to realize the Asian population is doing better than all races. Woke/Left = Professional Victims.

I grew up as a poor white boy in the ghetto. I can tell you that racism goes both ways. I can't count how many times I was called Honky, Cracker, White motherfucker, etc.

Lol. Yeah well no offense, but reading your comments here does make you sound like an incredibly dumb honky. Not racism if they're just pointing out what's obvious, right?

 

[strike670]

The best thing about woke going down in flames is the endless entertainment of watching all the woke people on this forum, and elsewhere, now pretend they aren't woke. It's always the same "yea, woke people can be irritating occasionally, but it's those anti-woke people who are the real problem, amiright?" Like we don't see through that shit. Or the "those game didn't fail because they were woke, it's because they were bad." Yea, those things are 100% not mutually exclusive.

Gaming version of McCarthyism. Attempting to disparage and negatively call people out because they do not see things through your myopic sense of reality.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Lol. Yeah well no offense, but reading your comments here does make you sound like an incredibly dumb honky. Not racism if they're just pointing out what's obvious, right?

 

[Gamer79]

Lol. Yeah well no offense, but reading your comments here does make you sound like an incredibly dumb honky. Not racism if they're just pointing out what's obvious, right?

I don't know anything about you but I value your opinion as much as the Stain I left on your moms sheets last night.

 

[mdkirby]

Anyone who has the patience to read an epic essay, and are interested in this topic, I would seriously recommend giving this a read, it is by a long long way the best commentary on this subject:

The Origins of Wokeness

paulgraham.com

 

[Inviusx]

Spoiler

It's a video game, where is the suspension of disbelief?

 

[Fake]

It's a video game, where is the suspension of disbelief?

lol

 

[phant0m]

It's a video game, where is the suspension of disbelief?

Stormtroopers have been dogshit for 40 fucking years, this is when you guys get mad about it?

 

[belmarduk]

Its no wonder.
Nobody wants unattractive people in video games.
Did you look at the characters in Concord? Of course, that game flopped spectacularly!

 

[TGO]

re4 remake is woke and gamers are buying it

Care to elaborate?
The game definitely had things altered to appease the woke, but it isn't woke

 

[Kotaro]

Care to elaborate?
The game definitely had things altered to appease the woke, but it isn't woke

Agree, people must be able to distinguish games that have 1-2 woke elements vs WOKE GAMES. A few minor changes here and there to appease the progressive apes is not woke. It's impossible to find a game today without 1-2 woke elements, because the progressive apes demand so. The gatekeepers, rating body ESRB, is the woke overlords.

Many Japanese games started as your typical regular games, but then their Western PR advise them to change here and there so that the games can pass Western standards. The developers themselves are not woke, but because they want their games to sell in the West, they have to follow these demands

WOKE games are those games that go over-board with woke/DEI themes (trans/rainbow flags/colors/costumes, woke scripts/dialogues/subjects/story, woke gender-neutral/androgynous appearance). The wokeness start with the developers themselves (mostly Western developers)

 

[ToneyJ]

Agree, people must be able to distinguish games that have 1-2 woke elements vs WOKE GAMES. A few minor changes here and there to appease the progressive apes is not woke. It's impossible to find a game today without 1-2 woke elements, because the progressive apes demand so. The gatekeepers, rating body ESRB, is the woke lords.

Many Japanese games started as your typical regular games, but then their Western PR advise them to change here and there so that the games can pass Western standards. The developers themselves are not woke, but because they want their games to sell in the West, they have to follow these demands

WOKE games are those games that go over-board with woke/DEI themes (trans/rainbow flags/colors/costumes, woke scripts/dialogues/subjects/story, woke gender-neutral/androgynous appearance). The wokeness start with the developers themselves (mostly Western developers)

Agreed with all of this, though we do have to assign some of the blame to Japanese companies for caving in to western demands when they don't have to. That their shitty upper management falling for the grift. You don't see Chinese or Korean publishers caving in to westerners in the same way.

 

[raduque]

This thread is politics.

But all these things ebb and flow. Large developers will follow the market and go with what sells.

You can clearly look at the market the past couple years (but especially last year) to see that none of the woke shit sold. Yet the big companies are still trying to DEI all the games.

The flaw in believing the theory that DEI leads to more sales is that you assume you will keep your existing customers. You won't.

Let's say you own a pizza place. You have served only pepperoni pizza forever. However, your customer base is loyal but dwindling. New customers like pineapple on their pizza. Ordinary people would simply offer two pizzas, one pineapple and one pepperoni, problem solved right?

Wrong, with DEI the old product becomes offensive. So with DEI, instead of two pizzas, you will get one pizza with both pepperoni and pineapple on it. There will be less pepperoni than before to make room for the pineapple.

The logic fails because even though the pineapple might draw in some new people, the old fanbase who like pepperoni no longer has an option to buy the pizza they want, and instead have to buy one with pineapple all over it. This is the time they are realizing they are bleeding their original fan base, and that the new fanbase, no matter how enthusiastic, is way too small to sustain a pizza joint.

They should just offer 2 pizzas. Then they would quickly realize that no human being is buying pineapple and close that one down. Many companies already know this but their management are true believers in the politics behind DEI and have drunk the cool aid so much that no amount of monetary loss or closure would ever get them to see the error of their business ways.

It's more like if you have a pizza place that's serving pepperoni pizza to hundreds, but 5 people want pineapple and they protest outside your door. So you give in and make a pineapple pizza, but you remove the pepperoni pizza from the menu. The 5 people protesting tell you you're a good boy and then don't buy any pizza. The customers who want pepperoni get pizza elsewhere, and you shit down your shop.

 

[Kotaro]

So we can add Bioware/Dragon-Age fallout to the latest development of war against wokeness

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

That sounds like a boring game

You just have no imagination, these themes are everywhere in a story what really matters is the author bias because they will steer narrative to their preference. A game like Deus ex 1 has lot of what would be considered conservative beliefs today and that's by no means a boring game in fact it's a classic.

 

[Hohenheim]

"Chuds and wokes"
Damn, that's some cringey shit.

 

[cormack12]

I remember when most game developers (in America, at least) were white and male. Until around the turn of the century, that was still overwhelmingly true. A lot of black or brown people were turned away because they didn't "fit the culture" of whichever studios they applied to. It was who you know rather than what you know that mattered or looked like and acted like the majority of the dev department. There are inroads being made with qualified black and brown folks in the industry... But there has to be pushback against those who don't see black and brown folks as being qualified regardless of their education and skill sets.

This is something that actually happens.

It does happen, but it's not because of skin colour. Opportunists have just latched onto the fact that there is a disproportionate visual ratio of skin colour. Like you wouldn't say the NBA is a closed shop to white men. Or black men have an advantage in their upbringing to become NBA players. I know this from the last two years of dragging myself round expo's, events, networking days, portfolio advice with my brother who has a first class degree in actual game art. Their is definitely an argument that the industry has a lot of nepotism in it but its not racially motivated. If it was, then you wouldn't see a lot of art being outsourced to these other countries.

I'd love if that were the case. More games and movies about different cultures seem like a win for everyone. More than once I've read how there is a lack of Aztec-looking games and how cool that would be as a setting, and it's true.

Meanwhile the people in charge of this kind of stuff seems to only care about skin color , with a preference for a particular one, and nothing else, which makes no sense to me. Black elves in Rings of Power is an insult, to the fans and imo even to black people, as they are being used as a way of virtue signaling. Meanwhile a movie like Django Unchained is amazing. Go figure.


I think there was no reason to feel bad because nobody on the big screen looked like you man, but maybe we are just different on that, can't judge and I won't.

But yes, after reading your post I can see how representation can be a good thing for those being more represented. I think @Kacho put it very nicely in his previous post: representation good, but when done right.

Hope I don't sound like a racist, but I'd like to go back to Rings of Power as one of the worst cases I've seen. Why are the elves black, but only some of them? Why are people of multiple races living on the same small medieval village? Is it fucking Manhattan or what? I think there are some things that should come before representation, like historical accuracy or, in the case of a work of fiction, some respect for the lore. But yeah the elves (white or black) also had short hair so I guess they didn't know shit about the lore nor meant any respect to it.

Meanwhile nobody (or at least not me) gave two shits about CJ in San Andreas because well, it's the USA and the 90's so it makes sense there's people of all kinds over there.

And it's the same with any other particular group of people. Gays? Nobody complained about the one in TLOU because it was written like an actual person. Compare him to that thing with horns in DA:V whose whole personality is about being non-binary.

Probably just a matter of hiring better writters, which I hope will be the case once all this DEI stuff affecting hiring processes is gone.


I've added them to my list, ty.


What about Kenan & Kel? Loved that one, but it's from the 2000s I believe.

There were too many of those tv shows to count and they dominated, like sister sister, my wife and kids etc.

 

[Bernardougf]

You can clearly look at the market the past couple years (but especially last year) to see that none of the woke shit sold. Yet the big companies are still trying to DEI all the games.



It's more like if you have a pizza place that's serving pepperoni pizza to hundreds, but 5 people want pineapple and they protest outside your door. So you give in and make a pineapple pizza, but you remove the pepperoni pizza from the menu. The 5 people protesting tell you you're a good boy and then don't buy any pizza. The customers who want pepperoni get pizza elsewhere, and you shit down your shop.

Its even a bigger problem when you decide to bring back pepperoni pizza but realize your customers are already eating in another place and dont give a fuck anymore about yours.. a lot of business never recover losted costumers.. Hollywood is feeling this right now.

 

[Lethal01]

Edit: Embarrassingly quick 10 seconds photoshop just shrinking her face, sides and bottom, eyes nose and mouth stay the same, now she is suddenly feminine and more beautiful.

its crazy how terrible your edit looks.

 

[iQuasarLV]

Anyone who has the patience to read an epic essay, and are interested in this topic, I would seriously recommend giving this a read, it is by a long long way the best commentary on this subject:

The Origins of Wokeness

paulgraham.com

Holy shit dude 5 pages in and ... WOW! I mean, putting this whole bullshit circus into context is such a breath of fresh air.

 

[rsouzadk]

 

[mdkirby]

Holy shit dude 5 pages in and ... WOW! I mean, putting this whole bullshit circus into context is such a breath of fresh air.

Yeah, it’s a bit of an epic read , but is by far the best commentary on the whole topic. The dude is mega smart (one of the co founders of Y combinator), he’s also politically pretty left wing, so he’s not speaking from a biased position.

But this is what I think of when people say “what even is woke”, woke is not having a black character in something, or a gay character in something, which is perfectly fine. It’s all about how and why it is done. Unfortunately I doubt many of the TikTok generation have the patience to make it through such an essay .

Sadly I fear the ‘prigs’ have done lasting damage to minority communities for a good while, and the backlash from their actions we will see in the coming few years are not gonna pretty.

As for what will be the next thing the prigs latch onto, I think it will be ai, or rather being anti ai. We’re already seeing it happen with not just ai artists, but also falsely accused non ai artists being mobbed by supposed virtuous zealots.

 

[mdkirby]

Holy shit dude 5 pages in and ... WOW! I mean, putting this whole bullshit circus into context is such a breath of fresh air.

Side note, it would make a good pinned post, maybe some tourists from the purple place would read it and have their eyes opened

 

[iQuasarLV]

Yeah, it’s a bit of an epic read , but is by far the best commentary on the whole topic. The dude is mega smart (one of the co founders of Y combinator), he’s also politically pretty left wing, so he’s not speaking from a biased position.

But this is what I think of when people say “what even is woke”, woke is not having a black character in something, or a gay character in something, which is perfectly fine. It’s all about how and why it is done. Unfortunately I doubt many of the TikTok generation have the patience to make it through such an essay .

Sadly I fear the ‘prigs’ have done lasting damage to minority communities for a good while, and the backlash from their actions we will see in the coming few years are not gonna pretty.

As for what will be the next thing the prigs latch onto, I think it will be ai, or rather being anti ai. We’re already seeing it happen with not just ai artists, but also falsely accused non ai artists being mobbed by supposed virtuous zealots.

I got that feeling once I finished. The woke mobs actually harmed our society and provided an avenue to allow Trump into office not once, but twice, because they wanted to force their moral superiority onto others.

I especially found the inclusivity officer linkage to USSR political officers super enlightening.

 

[mdkirby]

I got that feeling once I finished. The woke mobs actually harmed our society and provided an avenue to allow Trump into office not once, but twice, because they wanted to force their moral superiority onto others.

I especially found the inclusivity officer linkage to USSR political officers super enlightening.

Yeah, there’s many reasons for trumps victory, but these folks were a major one, and it seemed clear as day (probably the neurodiversity) this would be the outcome to me early on in bidens presidency. I tried to explain it to people years ago, and people thought I was nuts

Plus side, film, games and tv will possibly heal, it’s gonna sadly be a long road tho until games can have a black lead, or gay characters etc and not risk the wrath of gamers on the assumption of “woke”. We’ve seen it happening with kingdom come 2. A based guy making a based game, who wrote the characters how he wanted to write them, but just because it has a gay scene is being mobbed.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Meanwhile in Japan,

I mean, that looks stupid too. Looks like the average anime guy. Then again, anime was a mistake.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Well not Xbox yet

 

[Barakov]

Lol. Yeah well no offense, but reading your comments here does make you sound like an incredibly dumb honky. Not racism if they're just pointing out what's obvious, right?

I'm not racist bbbbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttt.....

 

[GigaBowser]

wont play no woke crud even if its in best games dont ever care about it wont play